Data Official Standard Custom Moveset Project: Mii Gunner

[John12346]

Take note, this part here's a copied and pasted message! But please read it anyway:
As we begin to approach the deadline for creating 10 custom sets for each character, we believe it's time to make sure that your conversations are staying on track, and that we evaluate the progress of your discussions. As such, we have prepared a preliminary lineup of custom sets based on what your conversations have led to. Feel free to adjust and update this list as necessary. After all, we want each character to be brought to their best potential!

We are going to begin to create the finalized sets on March 17th, so make sure you conclude any discussion you're having by then.

Preliminary Custom Sets(15 Sets):
Mii Height: 1/4 Tall
Mii Weight: Thinnest
3122 3121 3123 3112 3111 3113 3322 3321 3323 3312 3311 3313 1122 1121 1123

Of course, Miis are a special case when it comes to Custom Specials, so I see no reason why we couldn't give you guys a few extra! Discussion seemed to favor the combinations as listed above, but some people showed interest in Charge Blast so I included a few sets with that too. If you believe Mii Gunner should have a few more sets with it, I'm sure we could manage to fit them in.

Also, make sure that the height and weight settings are optimal for your Mii Gunner. Discussion seemed to favor the 1/4 height and thinnest weight Mii on all boards, so that's what we're running with for now, but if you want a different kind of Mii, remember to discuss that too. Keep in mind that there will be a standardized height and weight for each Mii Fighter, because it would be very difficult to implement otherwise.

Spoiler: Notes taken during preliminary creation of sets

Mii Gunner(15 sets):
1/4 height, thinnest
3, 1/3, 1/2, 1/2/3 and niche 1XXX sets
3122 3121 3123 3112 3111 3113 3322 3321 3323 3312 3311 3313
Niche: 1122 1121 1123

 

[popsofctown]

What does "1/4" tall mean? On DS mii maker, you can't center the slider over the indentation that would match with 1/4, at least not as far as I can tell. You can be over the left side of it, over the right side of it, or you can make it so that indentation is barely revealed on the left or on the right. If this becomes a standardized thing I want to be able to practice with exactly what will be there at no-upload tournaments.

 

[Marigi174]

What does "1/4" tall mean? On DS mii maker, you can't center the slider over the indentation that would match with 1/4, at least not as far as I can tell. You can be over the left side of it, over the right side of it, or you can make it so that indentation is barely revealed on the left or on the right. If this becomes a standardized thing I want to be able to practice with exactly what will be there at no-upload tournaments.

I think it is just anything up to 1/4 of the maximum height. Just slide it right to the bottom and you should be fine. Luckily, when it comes to using miis in games like Mario Kart and SSB, they have ranges for sizes because of the impracticalities that come with using precise measurements with a slider.

 

[Damix91]

On the Wii U, there are 128 possible different heights and weight on the slider. 128/4=32 so if you drag the slider all the way to the leftand click the right hand side 31 times you should be alright. Not sure about 3DS because I don' have one. I know its less hopefuly its 64 or something easily divisible.

PS. I doubt Smash really modify stats that precisely. There are more than likely only 5-10 different heights and weight categories in sm4sh.

 

[wha-ha-ha]

May I ask why there isn't much support for custom up B number 3? I feel like the character's recovery is quite limited otherwise and since mii gunner already has some great moves for offstage in fair, bair, and grenade launch, the speed and versatility of it really complements that type of style (with aggressive offstage/edge game). I'd cast my vote in the hat for 3131, for what it's worth. Not sure how others feel about this, but that's also who I main so #bias

 

[CT Chia]

I would like to see 1 3 1 2 as an option as well. This would be the same as 3 3 1 2 (already listed), but swapping out Charge Blast over Grenade Bomb. I enjoy using both of these sets, along with 3 3 1 1, which is already listed.

 

[John12346]

I didn't get a chance to address this when the question was asked, but when we make the update, we also plan on releasing QR Codes for Miis for TOs to use, so you'll have your standardized Mii to work with, don't worry.

Also, as far as movesets go, we pretty much agreed among the other Mii boards that 20 is the absolute limit of sets we can allocate to one specific Mii Fighter. So you guys can go ahead and work your way up to that number, if you so desire.

 

[CT Chia]

One other question. What Miis will be used for this. Can we decide on a certain Mii design we want? Or default something? I would absolutely love to see something cool like a Waluigi styled Mii, I personally have a Waluigi Mii with his hat and the High Tech Armor and call him GearsOfWa :D Wishful thinking I know lol

 

[AEMehr]

I would imagine the best options are either the guest Mii Gunner is based off of, or the official one uploaded by Sakurai himself. Which means default height and weight.

I would hope that owning the 3DS version would allow people to use whatever Miis they want though. I personally use Nikki, Quote, and Geno :U

 

[John12346]

Oh, as far as the Miis, I had to go with designs that matched the Miis that appear on the character select screen. With the exception of their height and weight settings which will be decided by you guys of course. It's the only "correct" objective decision we can make for this kind of project, even if it is really fun to import doppelgangers into the game.

 

[deepseadiva]

Oh, as far as the Miis, I had to go with designs that matched the Miis that appear on the character select screen. With the exception of their height and weight settings which will be decided by you guys of course. It's the only "correct" objective decision we can make for this kind of project, even if it is really fun to import doppelgangers into the game.

Can we at least be a Mexican default Mii

 

[Marigi174]

Can we at least be a Mexican default Mii

If they were to use "this-style" or "that-style" miis then it would lead not only to arguments as to what it should look like because of the objectiveness of the situation, but also (like John said) using the artwork mii designs is the only "correct" objective decision that they can make regarding them. They would probably just be wearing the default outfits too to reduce further arguments based on taste.

The only issue I have with mii fighters without distinguishing features is that, in the case of a mirror match, it will be v. difficult to tell players apart. @ John12346 how do you propose this issue is dealt with?

 

[John12346]

That's... a really good question, especially since the Miis appear exactly the same with one not becoming darker if two of the same are chosen... hmm...

The best I could suggest is turning Team Battle on to give out some colored outlines, honestly.

 

[Marigi174]

That's... a really good question, especially since the Miis appear exactly the same with one not becoming darker if two of the same are chosen... hmm...

The best I could suggest is turning Team Battle on to give out some colored outlines, honestly.

That works for singles, but we still face issues regarding doubles, triples and squads. Maybe if there are two eight pre-determined hats to distinguish between them during tournaments. The chances of eight players all being mii gunner are v. unlikely, but we need to prepare for it, and it is the only way I can think of. If it was like brawl/melee/ssb it would be easy because triples and squads didn't exist, making appropriate hats for the players Mario/Luigi/Wario/Waluigi caps. However, when there are six/eight players, three-four more hats need to be chosen or an alternative method is needed.

e: maybe if we have different 'favorite colour' miis?

 

[John12346]

Making different colored Miis is not a good idea for the project, mainly because we're trying to reduce the overall amount of work a TO needs to do, and making a bunch of QR Codes with the same Mii but different colors is going to add a lot of unnecessary work time and may be seen adversely.

I don't think there is a clean solution to this, so we're probably just going to have to deal with the minor confusion that arises when two of the same Mii end up fighting on the same team.

 

[AEMehr]

I think the most obvious way to fix this is to have the second Mii shown in the Mii Fighter selection menu be an option too.

Or use a hat and outfit to differentiate the two, I suggest try to aim for the Alt trophies present in both versions of the game:

Otherwise just have teams on so the outline can be in effect.

 

[Ezzelin]

I would also like to put a vote in for 3131 (that's what I use). At least give one moveset with Up 3, because I really do think it's the best recovery. Up 1's recovery is always the same, and the downwards projectile is mostly useless. 3132 would be good as well in case the opponent doesn't use projectiles. Surely there's room for Up 3, as multiple people have expressed preference for it. None of the draft movesets include it currently, which is a shame.

 

[Marigi174]

I would also like to put a vote in for 3131 (that's what I use). At least give one moveset with Up 3, because I really do think it's the best recovery. Up 1's recovery is always the same, and the downwards projectile is mostly useless. 3132 would be good as well in case the opponent doesn't use projectiles. Surely there's room for Up 3, as multiple people have expressed preference for it. None of the draft movesets include it currently, which is a shame.

The issue with up 3 is that its slow traveling speed and highly predictable route make it insanely easy to punish. At least with up 1 you have that variability in the route that can be taken, while with up 2 there is the spike to punish lower recoveries. With up 3 it has no hitbox (which was the problem with Lucario's recovery back in brawl, which was literally a better version of up 3), is slow (including reaching close to a standstill at the end of its trajectory) and is highly predictable route-wise, meaning that any player with at least a moderate level of skill can punish it easily.

 

[wha-ha-ha]

The issue with up 3 is that its slow traveling speed and highly predictable route make it insanely easy to punish. At least with up 1 you have that variability in the route that can be taken, while with up 2 there is the spike to punish lower recoveries. With up 3 it has no hitbox (which was the problem with Lucario's recovery back in brawl, which was literally a better version of up 3), is slow (including reaching close to a standstill at the end of its trajectory) and is highly predictable route-wise, meaning that any player with at least a moderate level of skill can punish it easily.

Ehhh. Up 3 travels the farthest, goes the fastest (on average), and can be angled anywhere from completely vertical to almost completely horizontal. The speed only decreases toward the very maximum end of its range when the thruster runs out, though in my opinion the negative effects of this can be mitigated by picking a good/safe angle of approach toward the ledge. Definitely worth it in my opinion but it depends on your style (I do a lot of ledge shenanigans personally and find it quite helpful for this type of play, plus being able to recover well is always nice). Either way I think it's a good option and definitely not worth skipping entirely in the CMP. It being the only significantly angleable recovery makes it worth including alone as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Ezzelin]

The issue with up 3 is that its slow traveling speed and highly predictable route make it insanely easy to punish. At least with up 1 you have that variability in the route that can be taken, while with up 2 there is the spike to punish lower recoveries. With up 3 it has no hitbox (which was the problem with Lucario's recovery back in brawl, which was literally a better version of up 3), is slow (including reaching close to a standstill at the end of its trajectory) and is highly predictable route-wise, meaning that any player with at least a moderate level of skill can punish it easily.

1. It's not really that much slower. Its speed has never been an issue for me.
2. Neither 1 nor 3 have hitboxes on the player, so that's a moot point.
3. I'd say 3 is less predictable than 1. As I'm traveling back towards the stage, I can fire off my recovery at a greater range of times, either taking a diagonal route, a straight up route, or anything else in between. With 1 it's important to get right below the ledge. So how is 1 less predictable? Sure, you can move a little bit left or right after moving up, but that's not nearly as variable as 3 since you can angle that one in a number of ways.
4. Up 1's projectile is very situational and of limited use. It's not worth giving up for the better recovery.
5. Straight up, I've been able to recover to the stage many times using 3 when I would have died using 1 or 2. Sometimes I can just barely make it to the point where I make the diagonal recovery and sweetspot the ledge. If I were using 1, by the time I'd fallen to straight below the ledge, I wouldn't have enough height to recover. If we're talking about which move gives the ability to get back on stage from the largest area, it's 3.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't have movesets with Up 1, but it would be a shame to completely exclude Up 3. Here's a thread on Reddit where someone else also expresses their preference for 3131:
reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2yz6pc/edgeguarding_a_villager_can_be_hard_work_let_mii/

Please have at least 3131 as one of the movesets. Surely we have room for that with our expanded list. Multiple players have expressed a desire for this moveset; doesn't that make it worth including?

 

[wha-ha-ha]

Ezzelin: for what it's worth that's me in the thread

But yeah, 3131 is still dope.

 

[Reaperfan]

On the issue of differentiating between two Mii players using the same model, why wouldn't picking different nicknames just be an option? For a majority of the game you either see your nickname or "P#" over your character so I don't think it would be difficult to distinguish who was who.

 

[CT Chia]

I don't think the issue with the same model will happen often. It can really only happen in doubles, triples, or quads if multiple people on the same team are using the same Mii, which can be dealt with on a case by case issue with the tournament organizer.

 

[popsofctown]

I only use upB3, but I play min height gunner so I'm offstandard anyway..

I think different hats and costumes for different custom sets is a good idea, since being unable to remember which custom set your opponent is using is a skill I think is uninteresting to test (and so is forgetting which set you yourself are using). At a minimum using three different styles for the versatile and pivotal last slot would be helpful.

With every other character, even if the custom moveset project uses identical colors while you use different colors at home, you have the option to press X or Y after selecting your set to get a costume that you usually use to queue your memory on what set you are using. With miis you don't get any control over the appearance if it came from the custom moveset project.

 

[Kenturo]

We definitely need sets with UpB3

 

[CT Chia]

Do we have a current combination of sets compiled?

 

[Ezzelin]

I'm not sure, but I'd like to add 3131 and 3132. Maybe we can make a poll to see what movesets people actually want out of the list above?

 

[BigShad]

I was thinking that some of these sets could be applied to min height max weight Gunner, mainly since the more weight you have, the more hitstun for combos, right?

 

[CT Chia]

Wait so is this final?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13sH3F_-MsF-ymosxVIO6VLHJNoMs0pJgUJEicwLypWs/edit#gid=0

There were no objections to the earlier sets I had, and to my knowledge we could add extra sets since Miis weren't bound by the 10 set list of other characters.

I'm really looking to be able to use 1312

 

[mega4000]

so which ones are the best movesets? i don't buy the 19 different competitive miis. There is a reason why every tournament player joke about this character, so i really wanna know which ones are the best four like in rosas case having just two who are good (2311 and 2313) and what are the benefits of having 1/4 size? I'm asking this because Im considering to sub main this character just because of protoman and X, so could someone tell me which set should I use to start playing at tournys? I mean the best blind picks?

 

[GS3K]

Neutral - 3 (grenades), but charge blast (1) has some uses.

Side - flame pillar (1) or gunner missile (3).

Up - depends on what you like best

• Lunar launch (1) shoots a projectile below you and has good vertical recovery, but you're vulnerable from above.
• Cannon uppercut (2) can spike opponents below and attacks above you, but has bad recovery vertically and horizontally.
• Arm rocket (3) can be aimed in any direction and has decent recovery, but you can't damage opponents with it.

Down - depends.

• Reflector (1) is good against opposing projectile users
• vortex (3) is good against characters with energy based projectiles like ness and robin
• bomb (2) in case you want another offensive option.

1/4 size gives you somewhat more mobility in exchange for less range

Hope this was of help

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

i'm really bad at reading and understanding all this, im getting old lol


just to be sure can someone tell me one thing

at EVO or wherever else has pre set move sets, will i be able to use Gernade launcher neutral b, Flame pillar side b, bomb drop down b (this one i want to be interchangeable between all the down b options based on the matchup, but typically i perfer bomb drop) and the up b with no hitbox (i think its the third one)

 

[GS3K]

3132 (grenade, flame pillar, arm rocket,bomb) is on the evo special list for gunner

 

[Kantrip]

I've been messing around with the gunner and I've been having trouble finding a use for any of our Side B options.

Neutral B is always grenade, Up B is pretty much preference (I'm partial to Up B 1 myself), and Down B seems to vary based on the matchup. However, I can't seem to find a use for any of the Side B's. I've been using Flame Pillar but it's honestly just so slow and doesn't really cover anything that a grenade wouldn't. The Stealth Shot seems painfully predictable, and the missiles, which appear to be the best option, suffer from so much endlag that I'm not sure if they're even safe to be using at any point.

Am I missing any useful applications of these moves (besides reversing them at the edge to grab it quickly), or is there really just no reason to use any of them over the others because they're all basically inferior options in all situations?

 

[GS3K]

Pillar makes a decent shield against most projectiles and stops moves like spindash,Luigi cyclone, etc. Missile is best used at long range and to damage shields.

 

[AEMehr]

I use homing missiles to interrupt opponents trying to apply pressure out of fair's range. I use the regular ones just to cover the area across the stage.

Stealth Burst's usefulness is really limited to Three/Free for Alls and Teams.

 

[GS3K]

I use the homing missiles to set up a charge shot. If they get hit by the miisile, they'll have less time to react to the charge shot

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

I don't think Flame Pillar is very good at all. NB3 comes out quicker, is active for longer, has better range (uncharged), does more damage (unless you hit with the initial flame pillar) and has less endlag which can lead to combos.

Imo we're better off with missiles or Stealth Burst unless we're running Charge Shot.

edit: whoops realized the explosion is transcendent. The grenade itself does stop projectiles though, but I can see it being preferred in some matchups now.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Just to note, I use Flame Pillar. I use it in conjunction with Charge Shot to have a 'kill shot on demand' (well, a 'kill shot around 140$ on demand', admittedly) while still having a defensive option with the flames.

Whether this is optimal or not, I don't know, but I legitimately do use those and would ask that Flame Pillar not be completely written off at this time.

 

[Zander2Green]

Late to the party, but I want to contribute some things about charge shot with some other moves.

So at mid-mid high percents against fast fallers/heaving/large characters, it looks like our charge shot can either force a jump or be comboed into from a fair or forward throw. Near the ledge, this gives a new kill option out of our reliable options. In later moveset lists, it may be useful to have 132(1,2,3) and 112(1,2,3) sets as possibilities