[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Well he was chose as the joke character, for his advertisement puposes.

 

[SmashChu]

@Chu
We're making a logical assumption. Pokemon has been going for 4 generations and does not show any signs of stopping, the sam elogic applies to Fire Emblem, maybe even moreso. A long-standing, productive, series with 11 games is not suddenly going to stop making games. Pokemon is a little more iffy, but many people thought generation 3 was the last, and I persoanlly think they hav ebeen hinting at a new addition to the series come 5th generation (New type).

Also, if it matters I would have Mewtwo over Lucario

There is nothing logical about it. Fire Emblem, for one, is a niche series. Why keep pulling characters from there. Also, there is no way to tell if anyone cares about a character from future games in the series. There was no third gen rep either.

There is no concrete logic on why you should fill a roster with what is essentially an empty box. There is a chance that another Pokemon or Fire Emblem game never will never come out.

 

[flyinfilipino]

There is no concrete logic on why you should fill a roster with what is essentially an empty box. There is a chance that another Pokemon or Fire Emblem game never will never come out.

Though it's highly unlikely that Pokemon will just end without a 5th generation, there's also the possibility that there won't be a suitable 5th generation Pokemon to include in the playable roster for SSB4 (see: 3rd generation).

Therefore, if you insist on leaving a possibility for a 5th generation Pokemon, then maybe you should include a possibility for a 6th generation as well.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Melee came out after Generation 2, we got a popular Gen 2 pokemon. Fire Emblem 6 was coming out, we got Roy, Generation 4 cam eout, we got Lucario, Radiant Dawn came out, we got Ike. See where this is going? They add the character from the newest installment. There is no generation 3 because is wa snot the newest at the time of that Smash's release, this actually further proves the idea.

FlyinFlippino's got it, it will be a new Ganeration (maybe not 5), though i think the reason it didn't get one is because of the time of it's release, not because it lacked a suitable character (Blaizeken and Sceptiel were both easy to pu tin smash, plus hugley popular in Gen 3.)

Why are you so convinced that both series are going to end? After 11 games, and no signs of finacial or legal failures, there gonna keep producing games. Pokemon is huge and can make money by marketing a game with absolutely no changes outside some minor re-desings, they're not stopping the gravy train anytime soon.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Melee came out after Generation 2, we got a popular Gen 2 pokemon. Fire Emblem 6 was coming out, we got Roy, Generation 4 cam eout, we got Lucario, Radiant Dawn came out, we got Ike. See where this is going? They add the character from the newest installment. There is no generation 3 because is wa snot the newest at the time of that Smash's release, this actually further proves the idea.

FlyinFlippino's got it, it will be a new Ganeration (maybe not 5), though i think the reason it didn't get one is because of the time of it's release, not because it lacked a suitable character (Blaizeken and Sceptiel were both easy to pu tin smash, plus hugley popular in Gen 3.)

Well, we got Mewtwo in Melee, and he didn't appear in Gold/Silver/Crystal. Just saying. I didn't mean to say that the third generation didn't have any suitable Pokemon, but that it was skipped; sorry.

 

[Pieman0920]

I think its a fair to assume that there will be a newer Pokemon and FE lord in the new games, since that seems to be the trend. I personally don't like placeholders, and would rather people not use them, but it is quite clear that for some series it just works better. There technically could be a situation in which neither series expands before the next Smash, but that's just not very likely.

In any case, I think for Pokemon, people should at least label it as nex-gen rep, instead of 5th gen, since as Brawl proved, you can completely skip a generation of Pokemon if the time is right. (Then again, there is something fishy going on with Brawl's 4th gen Pokemon. It seems the development team probably only knew the pre-release Pokemon at the time of planning, and were not privy to all the information at the time regarding the 4th gen. The fact that all Pokeball Pokemon were pre-release Pokemon, sort of point to it...heck, the only non-trophy Pokemon who was not shown before D/P's release was Cresselia, and the fact that it was in the Dialga/Palkia stage instead of Giritina shows that something was messed up there)

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

True enought Pieman, though the pre-released pokemon seem to gather the most hype/popularity int he end anyway...exception: Donphan, lolz

 

[Hero Dude]

Sooooooooooooooo.................

1. Mewtwo isn't in Brawl.
Becouse:
A. Pokemon company didn't want him in, Sakurai didn't know that, started working on him, found out, scrapped him.
B. Sakurai started working on him, Lucario movie came out, sakurai said "F*** it.", and made Lucario instead.
C. Pokemon company wanted both Mewtwo and Lucario, Sakurai tries, but just can't get it done in time without another delay.



This is all I coud think of.

Senerio A: Mewtwo isn't getting in SSB4. Not if they didn't want him.
Senerio B: I have no idea. You make that conclusion.
Senerio C: I still don't know, but Mewtwo has better chances with this senerio.

 

[Arcadenik]

I think we should consider the possibility of the Pokemon Company wanting to attract more customers to HeartGold/SoulSilver in addition to the upcoming 5th gen games. What if Red gets replaced with Gold and that means the 1st gen starters get replaced with the 2nd gen starters? Gold could still be called Pokemon Trainer in SSB4.

Pikachu
Pokemon Trainer (Gold with Chikorita, Quilava, and Feraligatr)
5th gen Pokemon
Mewtwo (due to fan demand)
Jigglypuff (again I want Meowth dammit!)

Edit: @ flyinfilipino

We got Pichu in Melee, didn't we? That was a popular 2nd gen Pokemon. Personally I think Gold and his 2nd gen starters would have made a better 2nd gen rep.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

I think we should consider the possibility of the Pokemon Company wanting to attract more customers to HeartGold/SoulSilver in addition to the upcoming 5th gen games. What if Red gets replaced with Gold and that means the 1st gen starters get replaced with the 2nd gen starters? Gold could still be called Pokemon Trainer in SSB4.

Or replace Jiggs with a popular fourth generation pokemon.

Pikachu
Pokemon Trainer
5th gen Pokemon
Mewtwo
4th gen Pokemon

Think about it.

 

[Arcadenik]

4th gen Pokemon? What's the point of adding a new 4th gen Pokemon when we already have Lucario? And this returns me to my questions from earlier... are we going to have all three of them in SSB4? Lucario, Mewtwo, and 5th gen Pokemon? I highly doubt it, unfortunately.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

As do I, I see it coming down to Lucario or Mewtwo. Unlessof course there isn't a suitable 5th/6th Gen as Chu pointed out.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

@Arcadenik

There are more popular choices than Lucario, especially as of late. And I told you before that I feel the same as you about all three appearing all at once, to an extent, hence why I suggest replacing Lucario. I also feel that Jiggs safety isn't guaranteed.

 

[Arcadenik]

So who are the most popular 4th gen Pokemon besides Lucario?

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Well...Infernape is pretty popular

 

[ScoobyCafe]

So who are the most popular 4th gen Pokemon besides Lucario?

You want me to name some?

Well I admittedly don't know a lot about 4th gen, but two pokemon who're definitely more popular at the moment are Darkrai and Shaymin. I'm sure there are more, but these two I'm able to recognize instantly (besides those ridiculously uber pokemon). Their movies help, I guess.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I also feel that Jiggs safety isn't guaranteed.

1.Jiggs has been here ever since Smash 64. (It wouldn't be a big deal If Sakurai didn't mind much, but he even acknowledges Jigglypuff and Ness along with possible others I missed in the dojo updates) It IS a huge thing.
2.Jiggs is the second most popular pokemon. (Ask Toise for the poll) - It's an american one too.
3.Pokemon wise, asides from anime, there aren't that many important ones (Asides from PT, who we already have)
4.The roster was decided for brawl in 2005 (Discluding sonic), Jiggs was just put at the end due to the glitch of passing through things apparently (Or something else)
5.Sakurai doesn't even fave much control over the Pokemon choices and the Pokemon Co even agrees that jigglypuff is an icon enough.
6.Jigglypuff has a unique moveset (I hear multitudes of fans screaming "MEWTWOOOOOO" But Mewtwo is awkward. Half of his moves or so in melee involve his tail)
7.One of the major things people screamed about with brawl was removing characters, and those were characters with only one Smash Debut and asides from Mewtwo, all clones.

So a character who still happens to be iconic to a series based on Popularity that still got in even in brawl and is an icon to smash along with a unique moveset differeing from the rest and the Company itself seems to agree on Jiggs as much as Sakurai does? And of course, after PT And Pikachu, the rest is literatly a popularity contest and "Shoe in the most recent pokemon here".

I mean, yeah, It's not 100% confirmed, but by that rule nobody is truly "Safe"

 

[Arcadenik]

Well...Infernape is pretty popular

Maybe... but most people would rather have Blaziken. He is fire/fighting, too, only more popular. I still remember the speculation for SSB3. I thought Blaziken was overrated back then.Well, him and Charizard. At least Sakurai did Charizard justice by making him equally important to the other starters instead of just having Charizard alone as a character.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Fair enough, I don't thin we should have a 4th gen at all (and if we should might as well leave lucario), but I was just throwing out Ideas off the top of my head for popular non-uber 4th gen popluar pokemon that could fit in smash....

 

[SmashChu]

Melee came out after Generation 2, we got a popular Gen 2 pokemon. Fire Emblem 6 was coming out, we got Roy, Generation 4 cam eout, we got Lucario, Radiant Dawn came out, we got Ike. See where this is going? They add the character from the newest installment. There is no generation 3 because is wa snot the newest at the time of that Smash's release, this actually further proves the idea.

First, two games do not make a trend. We got Ike in Brawl doesn't mean we'll get a new character from the series. Who's to say that it wont be a past character. Also, Roy as not a "new FE rep" as he came with Marth and was added as a clone, meaning they just needed another character. Also, where is the 3rd generation rep. And what happened to Pichu. There is no evidence to back your claim.

None of what you said makes any sense. You're just guessing. Why do you expect Sakurai to add a character neither him nor you know nothing about because it does not exist.
. There is NO FE rep or Pokemon rep right now, and two games is not going to make a pattern as it can just be coincidence.

I don't want any of you to put that on your rosters anymore because it makes you all look lazy and there is no reason to do so. Until someone can give a good reason why we should expect a character who does not exist, there is no logic to it. And no, don't argue why it's going to be "FE Rep" or "Pokemon rep." Why should we expect any character who does not exist.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

1.Jiggs has been here ever since Smash 64. (It wouldn't be a big deal If Sakurai didn't mind much, but he even acknowledges Jigglypuff and Ness along with possible others I missed in the dojo updates) It IS a huge thing.
2.Jiggs is the second most popular pokemon. (Ask Toise for the poll) - It's an american one too.
3.Pokemon wise, asides from anime, there aren't that many important ones (Asides from PT, who we already have)
4.The roster was decided for brawl in 2005 (Discluding sonic), Jiggs was just put at the end due to the glitch of passing through things apparently (Or something else)
5.Sakurai doesn't even fave much control over the Pokemon choices and the Pokemon Co even agrees that jigglypuff is an icon enough.
6.Jigglypuff has a unique moveset (I hear multitudes of fans screaming "MEWTWOOOOOO" But Mewtwo is awkward. Half of his moves or so in melee involve his tail)
7.One of the major things people screamed about with brawl was removing characters, and those were characters with only one Smash Debut and asides from Mewtwo, all clones.

So a character who still happens to be iconic to a series based on Popularity that still got in even in brawl and is an icon to smash along with a unique moveset differeing from the rest and the Company itself seems to agree on Jiggs as much as Sakurai does? And of course, after PT And Pikachu, the rest is literatly a popularity contest and "Shoe in the most recent pokemon here".

I mean, yeah, It's not 100% confirmed, but by that rule nobody is truly "Safe"

1. Don't be naive, it's not as huge as you're making it out to be. Sakurai contemplated removing Ness, and even though he didn't, he thought about it. Keep that in mind.

2. If you're talking about the 10th anniversary poll, it was conducted 3 years ago and only accounted first generation pokemon.

3. Jiggs isn't important, just popular. Pikachu and PKMN Trainer are the only truly important mascots in the franchise.

4. Not really sure how to respond to that, to be honest.

5. Show me where Pokemon Co said that in relation to Smash Bros., please. And the fact that he doesn't have that much control with the series should tell you that Jiggs isn't guaranteed.

6. Jiggs is similar to Kirby, even sharing identical moves. And other Pokemon are just as capable of having a unique moveset, if not more capable (depending on the pokemon).

7. People hollered for Mewtwo mostly, the rest didn't nearly see as much devotion, partially due to what you said.

So yes, I still feel that her safety isn't guaranteed. To say otherwise is silly; she and Lucario are alike [figuratively] except she happens to be much more fortunate.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Alright Chu, you win, In any future Roster I will put down Mr. Mime and Eliwood instead of Placeholders, satisfied?

 

[Big-Cat]

SmashChu, you and I are on polar opposites when it comes to gameplay, but for once, we agree on something.

There's no sense in making a placeholder for someone who doesn't exist. Heck, this common placeholders might be filled by an already existing character simply because the most recent character might not be all that well liked.

So, for these place holders, I think I'll be putting in Meowth and Sheeda for now since I actually would like to see these characters.

One more thing: This pattern thing has been going on long enough. How can we make some pattern based off of two sequels? The only thing that seems to be consistent is what to expect for the appearance of the Zelda characters.

 

[SmashChu]

SmashChu, you and I are on polar opposites when it comes to gameplay, but for once, we agree on something.

There's no sense in making a placeholder for someone who doesn't exist. Heck, this common placeholders might be filled by an already existing character simply because the most recent character might not be all that well liked.

So, for these place holders, I think I'll be putting in Meowth and Sheeda for now since I actually would like to see these characters.

One more thing: This pattern thing has been going on long enough. How can we make some pattern based off of two sequels? The only thing that seems to be consistent is what to expect for the appearance of the Zelda characters.

It's because we've always agreed when it came to character inclusions. And I'd actually like Sheeda (I have a crazy idea for her).

 

[Arcadenik]

@ Kuma and Smashchu

The only characters in Brawl who did not exist before Melee are Ike and Lucario. Lucas had been around since 1998 or 1999 but his game for the N64 had been cancelled before it finally debuted on the GBA in 2006. Toon Link is basically an updated Young Link. Zero Suit Samus is pretty much an updated "Justin Bailey" Samus from the original Metroid. Olimar was known for a few months before Pikmin and Melee came out. That leaves out Ike and Lucario as the only newcomers who didn't exist before Melee.

I think we can expect to see a couple newcomers who didn't exist before Brawl, especially a new Fire Emblem protagonist and a new Pokemon. There is also the possibility of Isa from Sin & Punishment 2 and the new protagonist from Golden Sun DS could get in instead of Saki and Isaac as the newcomers who didn't exist before Brawl. That's why some of us use placeholders for these nonexisting characters before we know what their names are.

@ Scooby

The Pokemon 10th Anniversary? Did you mean these?

It is interesting to note that some of the top 10 are playable in Brawl.

1. Pikachu
2. Jigglypuff
3. Charizard
4. Squirtle

Bulbasaur is #7 but Ivysaur gets in to represent the second evolution stage since Squirtle is more popular and already represents the first evolution stage and Charizard already represents the final evolution stage and is more popular. Was this poll conducted by Nintendo or by the Pokemon Company. What if Jigglypuff is in Brawl because of the results of this poll?

I also find it suspicious that Meowth happens to be the face of Pokemon All-Stars 2 with the second half of the top 20 while Pikachu is unsurprisingly the face of Pokemon All-Stars 1 with the first half of the top 20. Was Meowth really #11 (coincidentally) and not anywhere in the top 10? I suspect Meowth might have been one of the top 10 but moved to #11 so that he could represent Pokemon All-Stars 2.

 

[Big-Cat]

It's because we've always agreed when it came to character inclusions. And I'd actually like Sheeda (I have a crazy idea for her).

We haven't always agreed. Remember the Tom Nook argument?

I think we can expect to see a couple newcomers who didn't exist before Brawl, especially a new Fire Emblem protagonist and a new Pokemon. There is also the possibility of Isa from Sin & Punishment 2 and the new protagonist from Golden Sun DS could get in instead of Saki and Isaac as the newcomers who didn't exist before Brawl. That's why some of us use placeholders for these nonexisting characters before we know what their names are.

I understand why you use place holders, but it's automatically assuming there will be an FE Lord or new Pokemon to take those spots. We don't know what the future is in store for us, and those spots may be "taken" by non relating characters. Look at it this way, a good amount of us expect some new Zelda character from something like Zelda Wii. For all we know, we might get Midna or no new Zelda character period.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

1. Don't be naive, it's not as huge as you're making it out to be. Sakurai contemplated removing Ness, and even though he didn't, he thought about it. Keep that in mind.

2. If you're talking about the 10th anniversary poll, it was conducted 3 years ago and only accounted first generation pokemon.

3. Jiggs isn't important, just popular. Pikachu and PKMN Trainer are the only truly important mascots in the franchise.

4. Not really sure how to respond to that, to be honest.

5. Show me where Pokemon Co said that in relation to Smash Bros., please. And the fact that he doesn't have that much control with the series should tell you that Jiggs isn't guaranteed.

6. Jiggs is similar to Kirby, even sharing identical moves. And other Pokemon are just as capable of having a unique moveset, if not more capable (depending on the pokemon).

7. People hollered for Mewtwo mostly, the rest didn't nearly see as much devotion, partially due to what you said.

So yes, I still feel that her safety isn't guaranteed. To say otherwise is silly; she and Lucario are alike [figuratively] except she happens to be much more fortunate.

1.He was going to remove Ness...In melee (And apparently in Smash 64 in favor of having Lucas) That was before he became a veteran/Was only in one game. Being in Smash with perfect attendence is a very huge factor, especially noting that one of the biggest complaints was the removal of characters...

...And those were characters who had only one smash appearence and almost every one of them were last minute clones.

2.3 Years ago is still not that far, and we have brawl which also helps her popularity, and the other gens aren't really as popular. It was probably another poll but that also helps.

3.But she is an Icon to the entire franchise unlike most other pokemon in the set of 493.

4.Theories of "OMG SHE WAS A LATE ADD BAW"

5.It wasn't a direct statement but they influence the pokemon choices. It's not like Sakurai randomly said "NO SCREW YOU I'M ADDING IN JIGGS" - If both agreed on it during brawl then that should already say enough.

6.Avoiding the point. She (Or he or whatever) has a unique moveset, why remove a character who has a unique moveset, is still iconic to the series (Iconic, not important)

7.I've talked with many people on this; There's sure some hollering about Roy as well along with a tiny bit for Pichu surprisingly (Never really see much for Doc/Young Link) And It WAS One of Brawl's biggest complaints (Similar to online) Does that mean they should ignore it next time around? Well, If they're bad developers, yes...But Smash is about fan appeal.

She's an icon (Remember: Icon, not important but still an icon) to the 1st gen which is still the most popular gen. (Proof in PT And sales records) - If Sakurai and the Co were to believe that mewtwo > Jiggs and that they couldn't have too many first gens, they HAD The time to remove Mewtwo over Jiggs.

Now she's an even bigger icon to smash, still an icon to 1st gen (If you don't think so, you better have proof), has a unique moveset, and removing characters in smash has been shown now to cause quite a lot of heat (Especially when It's up there with Online in complaints) - The only thing I see here is importance, and even then, after Pika and PT It's basically "Pick who will make fans shut up the most" And "Shoe-in most recent pokemon"

 

[Big-Cat]

7.I've talked with many people on this; There's sure some hollering about Roy as well along with a tiny bit for Pichu surprisingly (Never really see much for Doc/Young Link) And It WAS One of Brawl's biggest complaints (Similar to online) Does that mean they should ignore it next time around? Well, If they're bad developers, yes...But Smash is about fan appeal.

I'm surprised to hear that about Pichu, but you could argue he evolved in Brawl.

Developers should always listen to the fans, but Smash has that special obligation not many games have since it unites many fanbases. Sorry, but I'm just saying. That and Nintendo needs to desperately hire some vet players for testing and gather research on who and what people want.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

What if Jigglypuff is in Brawl because of the results of this poll?

She most likely got in Brawl because she was in the previous two games. She's a veteran, yeah, but veterans retire, and I'm hoping she gives her spot to another pokemon. We already have the mascots of the franchise playable.

@thethirdkoopa

1. I really don't see it being as huge as you're making it, especially in Jiggs case. Being in all three games makes her bullet-proof? Come now, she's fortunate to be in all three. That's all.

2. I should clear up that generation 1-3 were accounted in that poll, too. Now honestly, if a poll was conducted today, do you believe she'd still be in the top 5-10? 3 years is a significant amount of time; consider that she hasn't been appearing in the anime lately, pokemons' prime focus is on 4th generation pokemon currently, and it's what kids are being exposed to.

3. These icon arguments has got to stop. Tingle is an icon, is he guaranteed to be the next Zelda character? No, and it doesn't guarantee Jiggs safety (I'd say Mewtwo was just as iconic before if not more so).

5. So they didn't agree that Jiggs was an icon? Okay. Plus, I don't think they really payed any attention to Jiggs.

6. By that logic, why remove Mewtwo? And I'm saying that giving her characteristics, other pokemon could be far more unique. Why not choose one of them instead?

7. Removing characters wasn't a big complaint, removing Mewtwo was. And I'm not saying the devs shouldn't listen to the fans, they should.

I'm aware that she's a veteran to smash, but as I said before, veterans retire in order to make way for the next generation. She's ho-hum, and her performance in Brawl was pitiful, much like Mewtwo. She was a popular choice before, the reason why she's even in Smash. But now, I would definitely remove her for a newer face, be it a 4th gen pokemon, another 5th gen, 6th, etc. We can't allow ourselves to be so fixated on the first gen when the series is constantly shifting or evolving.

 

[Pieman0920]

In regards to Jiggs, its my opinion that she was likely almost cut for Brawl given how she is at the bottom of the Pokemon column, the end of the credits, and didn't have a role in SSE despite being the only veteran to be all these things. Now while her cutting didn't happen, the fact that it almost did despite being in the first two games could be sign that it still could happen to her.....but then again being in three games in a row could also be argued to be something that stabalizes her position even more. Either way I don't think we can tell as of yet.

But I can't help but think that removing Jiggs will have a larger backlash than removing Mewtwo. No one liked Mewtwo until he was gone, but there are quite a few who like Jiggs in each of the games.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

Man, you guys go all over the place with some of this stuff.


For Pokemon/FE future placeholders: yes, this is a valid option for a new character because it has happened before. Doesn't mean it's required, but it's clearly a strong possibility.

Keep in mind the characters from both series have all been either

A) the face of the series (Pikachu, PT, Marth),
or
B) part of the most recent games at the time of their inclusion (Jiggs, Pichu, Lucario, Roy, Ike).

Mewtwo is the only exception to that, and even then he was intended for 64 where he was recent. No other characters fit that bill (Meowth was NOT planned for 64, only Bowser, King Dedede, and Mewtwo were).


Needless to say, I wouldn't bank on any currently existing characters from these series save for Mewtwo and Roy. Yes, we COULD get Meowth or Lyn or whoever, but what we've seen so far suggests that those older characters are a pipe dream.

Mewtwo and Roy get a chance because they've been in Smash before, were clearly planned for Brawl (unlike Pichu), and they've both caused a huge backlash from being cut (again unlike Pichu). Since cutting characters is unprecedented in this series, they can't be ruled out yet. We've got nothing to suggest that they can or can't come back.

 

[Arcadenik]

Why do we have rumors of Peach, Meowth, and Pit being originally planned to be in SSB?

Why do we have rumors of Balloon Fighter being in the Melee beta? Well, actually, I think I can answer this one. The Ice Climbers' Melee Dojo said that Sakurai considered Balloon Fighter, Bubbles, Excitebike, and Urban Champion before they settled on the Ice Climbers.

But the first question remains... I mean, if Bowser, King Dedede, and Mewtwo were planned to be in SSB along with the rumors about Peach, Meowth, and Pit.... and Melee actually added Bowser, Mewtwo, and Peach and Brawl added King Dedede and Pit... and Mewtwo was planned to be in Brawl, too. What if there is some truth to the rumors?

 

[Big-Cat]

I think these rumors are theories gone horribly horribly wrong.

 

[Arcadenik]

Maybe but I find it suspicious that five out of six of the rumored characters who were originally planned to be in SSB actually became playable in Melee and/or Brawl.

 

[DekuBoy]

When Brawl was being discussed before it's release, I can't remember a single most wanted roster which had Pichu and I don't recall any without Mewtwo.

Despite his playstyle I think his inclusion was great. A villain for the series. That was my only fault with the Brawl roster and if I had my way I would have had him over Pokemon Trainer.

 

[Arcadenik]

When Brawl was being discussed before it's release, I can't remember a single most wanted roster which had Pichu and I don't recall any without Mewtwo.

Despite his playstyle I think his inclusion was great. A villain for the series. That was my only fault with the Brawl roster and if I had my way I would have had him over Pokemon Trainer.

If I had my way, I would have Mewtwo and Meowth over Lucario and Jigglypuff.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

If you're looking for false hope, then yeah, rumors are a pretty sweet fruit.

 

[Big-Cat]

Maybe but I find it suspicious that five out of six of the rumored characters who were originally planned to be in SSB actually became playable in Melee and/or Brawl.

Your point being? You're including RUMORED characters into the equation. From we know as FACT, two of the three planned characters for SSB made it into Melee and two (would've been all three) of them made it for Brawl.

Peach and Pit likely made it in due to fan demand. I can't say the same for Meowth though.

 

[Pieman0920]

Verily, if I had mine own way, Bio-Rex would have been included back in Melee.

Oh....uhh....for Pokemon, I'd have thrown in Nidoking in there somehow. Also the PT would have had Blastoise.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I think PT should have just had all three started fully evolved...but then there' venusaur, who wouldn't be a terribly efficient fight, meh. If i had my way we'd have Eliwood and Mr. Mime as playabel characters for Pokemona and Fire EMblem