[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[Paper Mario Master]

Yeah, one thing I hate about this thread, is that ever little thing can be turned into a big argument




Your Skull Kid avatar reminds me how much I wanted him to be Brawl, I was such a fan of him. I would have settled for an Assist Trophy.

That's one reason why he's my avatar, I really want him in Smash though his chance was Melee and maybe Brawl...

 

[kirbywizard]

That's one reason why he's my avatar, I really want him in Smash though his chance was Melee and maybe Brawl...

Yeah, well hopefully he will get in as an Assist Trophy



Oh thanks alot for digging that up again Pieman >_>.


Well that's it I'm gone for a bit.

 

[Lord Viper]

well do you think they'll make another one maybe maybe not

☆ The amount of money Smash Bros is making, if they stop I'll call them stupid. That's like saying they should stop making Mario games, they shouldn't stop making greatness. ☆

 

[Clownbot]

well do you think they'll make another one maybe maybe not

You must be joking. Smash makes Nintendo buckets of money. Why would they stop?

Spoiler

Sorry if I come off as a jerk here, I'm feeling really hyperactive.

EDIT: Thanks a bunch, Viper JLT4GOV.

 

[BBQTV]

well i heard sakurai wants to do something else and by something else not super smash wtf why man why

 

[kirbywizard]

well i heard sakurai wants to do something else and by something else not super smash wtf why man why

Well they could try having someone that isn't Sakurai help make the game >_>.

 

[BBQTV]

is this possible?

 

[Clownbot]

well i heard sakurai wants to do something else and by something else not super smash wtf why man why

Okay, so it'll take them a while. Brawl took, like, 5(?) years to be even announced, and then it's release date got pushed back twice(?). Give it some time, SSB4 will surely happen.

 

[BBQTV]

yeah of course but still hope it doesn't take long

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

2. Don't be so bossy.

What else you'd expect from Laharl?

 

[BBQTV]

what Else You'd Expect From Laharl?

Haaaaaaaaaahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No One Can Beat Me For I Am Laharl Overlord Supreme

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

Haaaaaaaaaahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No One Can Beat Me For I Am Laharl Overlord Supreme

I can't imagine him with a Wiimote or GCN controller.
Though he should since the dualshock is ergonomically incorrect and will cramp hands..

 

[Pieman0920]

Oh thanks alot for digging that up again Pieman >_>.

You're welcome.

But really, I promised that I would give my responce, though I do wish that it wouldn't balloon out to that size. =/

 

[BBQTV]

I can't imagine him with a Wiimote or GCN controller.
Though he should since the dualshock is ergonomically incorrect and will cramp hands..

laharl is in the next game if not it will suck at least make a cameo

 

[Neckbeard Torterra]

laharl is in the next game if not it will suck at least make a cameo

We talking SSB or Disgaea?
Hes' only popular with the otaku crowd. I don't think Sakurai would care.
And he gets a cameo in every sony srpg out there. At this rate hes gonna cameo everything eventually.

 

[SmashChu]

That's still pretty much jumping to conclusions in terms of the personalities though. I guess the problem here though is their depiction in Smash Bros, rather than their depiction in their own games, where Marth and Roy have virtually the same personality. (Where the problem seems to be depicted as more feminine. In any case with the made up personalities, Ike kind of usurped your idea for Roy.

Actually, what this reminds me a lot of is Captain Falcon, who seems to have a different personality (or preceived to have a different personality) in Smash than the one he has in F-Zero.

How do you not see their personalities. Heck, you keep referring back to the other games so much it makes me wonder if you even play Smash Bros.

My main argument is that Fire Emblem shouldn't keep on having the same type of character. Its not a want of lances, axes, mages, and what not, its a diswant of another sword users from Fire Emblem, or at least the same type of sword user (Lyn probably wouldn't fight that way...but Lyn's probably not getting in anyways, so disregard this) The series should be expanded, instead of having three characters who are virtually the same, outside some fairly insignificant differences. Quite frankly, I'd be fine if the FE series only stays with Ike and Marth, and doesn't get a new character, since that will still be better than overloading the franchise with more of the same.

Yes, because two characters wielding a sword is SO much the same. You need to understand that the sword is a very complex weapon. There are a heck of a lot of different kinds of swords from different cultures are well as fighting styles. One sword is not the same as another. This is why Smash has so many varied sword fighters.

I don't think a analogy about a lost dog is quite apt since we can only assume that the girl liked her dog for her special bond that they developed together. It'd be more apt to put in say a doll, since any bond that's generated between the girl and the doll would be more akin to any that a player would generate between themself and Roy. In any case, it still stands that most connections that these average fans have is created by the aethetics of Roy, rather than Roy himself, and thus he can be replaced, since despite your analogy, there isn't that much emotional attachment. Of course some will still complain, but everyone complains about everything in these types of games, since no one's dream roster will be perfect. Plus, its not like there's a overwhelimg majority of people who want Roy, since I'm pretty sure that most of Smash fans don't really care. Its just those vocal few who don't aren't really that big into Fire Emblem, yet still seemed to develop a attachment to Roy instead of being indifferent like most are. Even Mewtwo, who clearly has more people complaining about him, is pretty unlikely, as the fanbase is mostly confined to message boards. Of course this makes me wonder what exactly the Japanese stance on Roy's cut was, since their fan base is almost certainly the one that could push in these types of characters through.

I'm saying if fan demand was high enough, then Roy would have gotten in anyways, since he would have been priority. Look at Falco. He was a clone who had enough fan popularity that he got in despite the fact that there was a new character added. (And it speaks even more for him, since the new character pushed in was a clone as well) Also, while its true that I doubt that many were expecting Doc, Pichu, and especially MC, I do remember what it was like Pre-Brawl, and more people were expecting Geno than Roy, even though Geno's inclusion made no sense. (Heck, near the end, I think the only one who was expected more than Geno was Ridley, and we know how all that turned out. )

Do we have to prove fan demand to you.

Look, if any other character was cut, people would have reacted the same way. They'd be upset, like they are now. Truth is, we don't know why they were cut. The evidence, however, points to that they were in the final project, but were removed so that Sonic and his stuff could be done without having to delay the game forever (they were already behind squeal it seems). Your making a claim with no fact. You only assume that Roy didn't come back because he wasn't popular enough. Remember: Assume is ***=u+me

Yes, most lords havn't really don't many important things outside of their one game, with the exception of Ike and Marth who had multiple ones, but Roy falls into that mass of other lords that you just put down. In his own series, Roy hasn't done anything in his own series, at least by your definition of it.

Do I REALLY have to repost

No, you don't know what important means.

marked by or indicative of significant worth or consequence from here

So, the character must have some indicated kind of worth. We can't use story because Fire Emblem, like Final Fantasy, is not continuous. While some games move into one another, most are independent. Since all the lords are the main character, they are all important to the story.

How else may they be important then. Why, they may be important to the franchise. Guess what, Melee is what made FE possible here. People wanted FE because people like Marth and Roy. Since Roy helped to popularize Fire Emblem by being playable in Melee, he has worth, thus, he is important. When a new FE game comes out the question always is "Is Marth or Roy in this game." People thought Elwood was Roy when they say the box for FE7. People were very upset when Roy was taken out of Brawl.

By definition, he is important. To deny his importance is to not understand the definition of importance.

Then it shouldn't matter at all who they include, since the FE game won't matter that much, thus they should please the fans by putting someone who better at expanding the series. It won't bother the average person, since it doesn't matter to them, according to you.

Or how about they don't add another FE character. Why does no one explore that alternative.

Also, to bold, who do the fans want. Oh, that's right. ROY

Uh...because you tell him more than "I like Moltres. :3" I guess? That's how those letters went anyways. Plus given that Pokemon is a bigger franchise than Smash isn't that kind of like saying "I like doughnuts :3" and Sakurai not being able to tell if you like the doughnut food item in smash, or the actual food? (Plus, Moltres is pretty bad for a legendary in Brawl. Why would you like him because of his apperance there? )

What?

Again, its not these type of people that the roster should be generated for. Marth and Roy don't even exist in the same universe. Given the total disregard to each of their characters, I don't see the problem at all with cutting one, and adding another, since the people are just generating stuff in their head.

So, let me get this straight. The roster is not suppose to be generated for Smash fans? The who should it be for?

If this responce is confusing, it's becuase it is. It doesn't even relate to Toise's post

And no, Marth doesn't convey "the Fire Emblem effect" well enough on his own. People don't write "Fire Emblem was localized because Marth was in Melee." It's "Marth and Roy." Everywhere on every website that has a description. "Are Marth and Roy in this one?" People want them both. My brother used to say "so basically, Roy is Fire and Marth is Emblem, and they fight crime." You can't have one without the other and assume people will accept it. They're bound to eachother forever.

You've lost like 10 pages back. I didn't even have to try and counter your arguments, they are just to easy. You have this weird idea that you base your argument around, but not once have you defined why that your idea is a idea of reason and should be followed. Or, in simpler terms, why your idea makes sense.

 

[Pieman0920]

Sorry Smashchu, I'm not going to reply to that, since my argument with Toise is too long as it is. If your points are good enough though, I'm sure Toise will use them. (Sorry, but if I really started to read that, I'd probably end up with the urge to comment, and I really don't want two super long debates going on at the same time, especially if its on the same thing.)

 

[rockem7]

I'm kind of siding with the fact that we don't add another FE rep unless it's the FE12 Lord. I don't really care about Roy, seeing as I hated him in Melee and I've never played his game. (And on the subject of fans, there are other people who feel the same as me. >.>) I'm not saying "OMG MAGE/LANCE/AXE!", I'm just saying that another character isn't absolutely necessary.

 

[ArnoldsCat]

I really hope that they dont get rid of lucarrio for another guy

i know they will like with mewtwo but i hope they dont because i think lucarios pretty imaginitive seeing as he gets stronger.

and i hope PT stays.
and i can only hope they expand subspace after the disapointing effort in brawl.it just didnt really click for me

 

[Fatmanonice]

yeah of course but still hope it doesn't take long

It's going to be awhile yet. Sakurai's current project isn't estimated to be finished until 2011 so the earliest SSB4 will probably be announced is 2012.

 

[n88]

@ArnoldsCat

PT will most likely stay. Lucario's up in the air, but I think we'll be seeing him again. SSE will hopefully be expanded. I enjoyed it, but a few things about it bothered me. Admittedly, it isn't easy to write a story featuring almost 40 characters w/established backstories that have nothing to do w/all the other characters'.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

He's more of a grayish color

Ganon'ssuppossedly of Arabian-like decent...I heard this somewhere, it has to do with his name and the mythology the gerodus are based off of, or something like that.

Hmm I have missed a lot of disscussions...

I won't touch the pichu disscussion but I have a fun idea...If the FPT HAD to be included, why not give her the popular starter from each generation? Feraligator, Treeko, and Monferno? I personally don't want her at all, but thats my idea if she had to be included.

I've already stated my position of Lyn and Roy, but here's a new idea for the grill: The Black Knight as a character, thoughts?

And I'll leave the rest of the Roy arguing to Pieman.

*Prepares to be shot down several times*

 

[Pieman0920]

The Black Knight would be a heavier and slower clone of Ike, so that's really something I don't think would happen.

 

[n88]

I don't play FE, but the Black Knight seems kind of cliche (Not that that would prevent him from getting in). I thought he might make a good mini-boss.

 

[Tacel]

The Black Knight as a character, thoughts?

I was waiting for someone to bring him up.
He'd be awesome and extremely powerful and heavy.
And awesome.
I'd make him my secondary.

Spoiler

Oscar

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

The Black Knight would be a heavier and slower clone of Ike, so that's really something I don't think would happen.

I disagree, He could use warp powder and The ranged attacks of Alondite, and if absolutley neccessary, he can technically weild lances...

 

[Pieman0920]

I disagree, He could use warp powder and The ranged attacks of Alondite, and if absolutley neccessary, he can technically weild lances...

Why theoretically true, Ike could also use those things, yet doesn't in the end. The real reason I think they would be close, is not because of a lack of moves, but rather that Sakurai would just seem to think its right, seeing as the two have virtually the same weapon, and were taught by the same man. It would actually make less sense if they weren't clones really.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

But Ike's training was incomplete, and The BK extended his training after what happened to his trainer (avoiding spoilers here), so they have similar, bu different styles. Ike never used warp powder, and BK could have Luna instead of Aether. And the ranged potential wasn't tapped, so instead of ignoring, why not embrace it and create the Ike that we never had?

 

[Pieman0920]

The training being incomplete detail doesn't seem like it would really matter, since in the end, its Ike who beats BK...twice. Also, while Ike never used warp powder in game, he does use it in Brawl anyways. Plus, it seems to me that it would be better to give any ranged attack (which seem to be lacking in hevy weights) to Ike instead, and give him a more original down special.

Also I'd like to restate that we'd have a even stronger and slower version of the Ike we have now, which would be pretty nuts. All in all, I think it'd just work better as a alt-costume of sorts.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Alt-costume wouldn't work, there hitboxes would be way to different. I just meant by the training that there styles branched away from their masters. Ike already has an established moveset and while he deserves ranged, he doesn't have it, so give it to a newed version of him. And Warp powder is not included anywhere in Ike's moveset, just his entrance. Bk could utilize the warp powder for as little as his up B or as large a part as crazy fast Smashes.

 

[StinkomanFan]

Who thinks another Mother representative would be good for SSB4?

 

[Jerome]

If nintendo puts in a female pkoemon trainer in SSB4 what makes everyone believe that Gardivour will be one of her Pokemon? Gardivour is probably gonna be a pokemon item. Her pokemon should be Jigglypuff, Pichu, and Meowth. Meowth was planned for Super Smash Brothers on the N64 but was cut due to time limitations. I could see Meowth being a very good fighter IMO.

 

[Jerome]

Who thinks another Mother representative would be good for SSB4?

That would be great. FE will most likely get another representative so I don't see why the can't add another Mother character. I still prefer Ana from Mother to be chosen. Claus is okay but we need a character from all three games IMO.

 

[StinkomanFan]

You mean like a Starman?

 

[Pieman0920]

Alt-costume wouldn't work, there hitboxes would be way to different. I just meant by the training that there styles branched away from their masters. Ike already has an established moveset and while he deserves ranged, he doesn't have it, so give it to a newed version of him. And Warp powder is not included anywhere in Ike's moveset, just his entrance. Bk could utilize the warp powder for as little as his up B or as large a part as crazy fast Smashes.

I don't see why the hitboxes would be so different. Its a alt costume, so its still Ike, just in BK armor, which doesn't need to make him any taller or shorter. Given that their weapon is pretty much the same, I'd say that the only pottential problem is that the helm is a bit tall, but that's really not a problem. And while I concede that BK could have a original moveset, I just have a strong feeling that Sakurai would just make him a clone, and justify that their weapons and teachings are the same, since they really are. (Its not like the subtle differences in their style that developed over time could even be apparent in a game such as Smash Bros anyways) And off the record, I'd much rather BK copy Ike's Aether, rather than have a generic teleport.

Also, I don't see why FE getting another character should mean that Mother gets one as well. Fire Emblem has had 11 games, while Mother has had 3. If anything, SSB4 should just focus on making Lucas stand out some more from Ness. (Though they aren't fully clones as it is, they can still be made a bit different)

 

[Jerome]

You mean like a Starman?

No, I meant Ana from Mother/Earthbound Zero. Unlike Ninten, Ana had offensive PK attacks.
So she would be a good choice.

 

[StinkomanFan]

No, I meant Ana from Mother/Earthbound Zero. Unlike Ninten, Ana had offensive PK attacks.
So she would be a good choice.

No, I was referring to you comment on using characters from all 3 games and since Mr. Saturn is only good as an Item, I was thinking Starman.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I don't see why the hitboxes would be so different. Its a alt costume, so its still Ike, just in BK armor, which doesn't need to make him any taller or shorter. Given that their weapon is pretty much the same, I'd say that the only pottential problem is that the helm is a bit tall, but that's really not a problem. And while I concede that BK could have a original moveset, I just have a strong feeling that Sakurai would just make him a clone, and justify that their weapons and teachings are the same, since they really are. (Its not like the subtle differences in their style that developed over time could even be apparent in a game such as Smash Bros anyways) And off the record, I'd much rather BK copy Ike's Aether, rather than have a generic teleport.

But Ike is shaped more Like Ganon, while BK is shaped more like Bowser. At the very least, BK is much wider thank Ike, even if they are the same Height. And as for the teleportation, itwould be kind of lame.

 

[Jerome]

No, I was referring to you comment on using characters from all 3 games and since Mr. Saturn is only good as an Item, I was thinking Starman.

I guess Starman would be ok I mean the smash brothers seriers does need more villans.

 

[Big-Cat]

Who thinks another Mother representative would be good for SSB4?

I would love to see the MOTHER series get some more love since it got the shaft over all in Brawl. I'd kill to see Kumatora in, but I think her best chances are as a clone. If no MOTHER characters are added next game, I want Lucas' special moves to be changed up with his regular moveset to be adjust to accommodate the changes.

For those of you saying that alt. costumes would raise the question of hitboxes, it should be interesting to note that hitboxes can be deceivingly large. The same can go for damage boxes.