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Official 'Item Standard Play' Thread (UPDATE 1/15: MAJOR TX TOURNEY INFO)

Jack Kieser

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
2,961
Location
Seattle, WA
Welcome to the official project thread for 'Item Standard play'!
This is a moderator-approved tournament discussion thread.

IMPORTANT NOTICE:

It turns out that ISP is getting some big-name use! Houston area TO extraordinaire DugFinn is hosting two ISP tournaments in Q1 this year. The first one is actually coming up pretty quickly: an Austin, TX area 2-day featuring 1v1 AND 2v2 Brawl ISP (the link to which is here). The second tournament featuring ISP... will be WHOBO @ Anime Matsuri! WHOBO will be featuring 1v1 and 2v2 ISP as well, but will be much larger scale. MUCH larger. DugFinn has already pulled in some sponsorship for vanilla Brawl 1v1 (1000$ + player entry pot, wow) and is working on getting ISP 1v1 sponsored, as well. WHOBO looks like it will rock hardcore style, so don't miss it. (Here is a link to the AiB thread with WHOBO's schedule, and here is a link to the AM site. Enjoy.

IMPORTANT NOTICE 2:

We have a request aimed at anyone with a USB Gecko and coding/Brawl+ knowledge. We need someone to figure out a way to control item spawns. As of now, we don't know exactly how the game spawns items. Some think it is closest to the loser, some think according to hard-coded spawn points, some think it is proceedurally determined, and some think that it's purely random. Someone please figure out a way to hack the game to do the following:

*spawn items as close to the horizontal center of each map as possible, about 2/3s the distance above the ground (possibly next to the spawn platforms?)
*spawn items every 25-30 sec., regardless of spawn rate

If you can figure it out, I'll, I don't know, send you some cookies or PayPal you 5$ or something. I'll figure out a good reward. Someone please get on this!

[NOTE: This thread concerns offical rulesets and playstyle discussion for the creation of a unified approved item listing for item-based tournament play. This thread is NOT for:

*flaming
*discussion of whether items (in general) are tournament viable
*discussion concerning the 'randomness' of items
*trying to replace any form or facet of current, established tournament play
*etc.

All of the above will not be tolerated. If you are looking to discuss whether items should be allowed in tournaments, you have come to the wrong place.]

Mission Statement:

This mission of the 'Item Standard Play' project is :

A ) To experiment to find a unified list of items that are 'approved' for item-based tournament play, as well as 'approved' playstyles and rulesets for the creation of item-based tournaments. As in any tournament format, final discretion is always in the hands of the tournament organizer.

B ) To create a scene that can/will act as a stepping stone for the introduction of casual players into the traditional tournament scene without forcing them to 'abandon' all of the conventions of casual play.

C ) To create a scene that current tournament players can go to, if they so choose, that has an alternate style of play than what they are used to.

D ) To create a unified place that tournament organizers can come to discuss, create, and advertise item-based tournament events.


Plans:

This thread's purpose is to give members of the ISP project a place to where they can discuss item-based tournament play, but first a standard for item-based play must be created. Thus, ISP's first goal is the creation and implementation of a standard for item-based tournaments.

In order to be as open-minded and thorough as possible, all items must be tested in a range of various circumstances (1v1, 2v2, and FFA; all of which Online and Offline). Prior knowledge from Melee must, for the sake of accuracy and true balance, must be discarded, especially in light of the inclusion of a new physics engine (Havok). To accomplish this, we ask that those who would like to contribute to the project post in this thread details pertaining to item experimentation; the results of numerous experiments will ultimately determine the final item list.

[NOTE: Simply stating that Item A is broken is not enough; sufficient testing must occur.]

We ask that your post include:

*Number of rounds (the more rounds played, the more accuracy; note that each round must be identical, i.e., the same players, the same items, the same stage, the same characters, etc.)
*Stage played on
*Rules of match (Time/amount, stock/amount, special rules, etc.)
*Characters played
*Number of wins for each player/character
*Number of kills for each player/character
*Any other information you deem important

Also, if possible, note the relative skill of all players; for instance, if P1 is much more skilled than P2 and P3, make note.


If you have any questions/concerns/requests for the project, please contact me (JackKieser) either by PM or by AIM. Your support and encouragement is appreciated, and we look forward to the creation of a tournament item standard!
 

Jack Kieser

Smash Champion
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NEWS (As of 01/05/09 at 3:36 PM CST):

Ladies and gentlemen… we have a standard. Thanks to the testing, balancing, research, and discussion of many, many people, we finally have a draft for a balanced and fair item listing, as well as a ruleset for use in tournaments. Speaking for everyone a part of the ‘ISP’ project, we can’t thank everyone enough for their help and support; this would have never happened if the community around SWF hadn’t put (at least some) of their support behind it. Special thanks go out to those who don’t even agree with competitive item play, but still discussed and debated with us to work towards a consensus.
Here is the result of nearly two months of extensive testing, balancing, and discussion:

[NOTE: We have since added a 'counterpick' list to our standard; the impressions thread has been updated with relevant information concerning this change.]

APPROVED ITEMS:

(Sandbag) (Food) (Warp Star) (Bunny Hood) (Beam Sword) (Lip’s Stick) (Star Rod) (Super Scope) (Fire Flower) (Motion Sensor Bomb) (Freezie) (Smoke Ball) (Pitfall) (Mr. Saturn) (Green Shell) (Banana Peel) (Franklin Badge) (Screw Attack)

COUNTERPICK ITEMS:

(Assist Trophy) (Dragoon) (Metal Box) (Home-Run Bat) (Hammer) (Ray Gun) (Cracker Launcher) (Gooey Bomb) (Hothead) (Spring) (Unira)

BANNED ITEMS:

(Smash Ball) (Pokeball) (Containers) (Blast Box) (Maxim Tomato) (Heart Container) (Super Mushroom) (Poison Mushroom) (Starman) (Superspicy Curry) (Lightning) (Fan) (Golden Hammer) (Bob-Omb) (Smart Bomb) (Deku Nut) (Bumper) (Soccer Ball)

CHANGES FOR 2v2 PLAY:

Item Spawn Rate – Changed to ‘Medium’
(Team Healer) - Neutral
(Smash Ball) – Moved to Counterpick
(Superspicy Curry) – Moved to Counterpick
(Cracker Launcher) – Moved to Neutral


BRACKET PROCEEDINGS:

Double-Elimination

Best of Three (3) Sets, with a Best of Five (5) Finals

Matches Consisting of 3-Stock with an Eight (8) Minute Time Limit

In the event of dispute, controller ports may be decided by Rock-Paper-Scissors

No player may choose a stage they have already won on in that set unless agreed upon by both players.

Ties will be broken by lives, followed by percentages; if percentages are tied, then a One (1) Stock Sudden Death match will be played (no time limit)

Each player may declare One (1) stage and/or One (1) item to be stricken from the entirety of the set

BRACKET CHANGES FOR 2v2:

Controller ports will be determined in a 1221 fashion; whoever wins the RPS will choose first, then the opposing team will get their ports, and then the teammate of the RPS winner will get the last port.

Team Attack will be set to ON

Life Stealing will be allowed

Each team may declare Two (2) stages and/or Two (2) items to be stricken from the entirety of the set.

Color Blind rule: Should a player have a color-based disability, he or she may request in a teams match to have a specific color for their team. This is so characters such as Lucario or Sonic can be granted the blue team so that there is not unnecessary confusion.

MISC. BRACKET RULES:

Metaknight's Infinite Cape glitch is banned.

If a game ends with Bowser doing his suicide klaw and it ends in sudden death, the sudden death will be ignored and that game will count as a win for Bowser.

Any action that can prevent the game from continuing (i.e., freezing, disappearing characters, game reset, etc.) will result in a forfeit of that match for the player that initiated the action. You are responsible for knowing your own character, and must be wary about accidentally triggering one of these effects.

Stalling is banned. Stalling is the act of deliberately avoiding any and all conflict so that one may make the game unplayable. Running away from an opponent to reach a better position is not stalling, while doing an infinite grab endlessly against a wall is. Any infinite chain grabs must end quickly after 300% has been reached so as to prevent excessive stalling.

Port slob picks: On a player's counterpick, that player may opt to redo the port selection process with that player or team picking their port first.

The Mages DQ rule: After a match has been called, if a player is two minutes late he will receive a warning. At 4 minutes late, he will be given a loss for the first game of the set. After six minutes, he will be given a loss of the entire set.


MATCH PROCEEDINGS:

1st Match –

Double-blind character selection (may be waived with agreement of both players)
Each player may declare stage/item strikes
Opponents start the stage striking procedure
High seed deactivates One (1) item
Lower seed deactivates One (1) item
Match begins on stage chosen during strike


Subsequent Matches –

Loser switches the status of One (1) item
Winner switches the status of One (1) item
Loser switches the status of One (1) item
Loser picks stage
Winner picks character
Loser picks character

MATCH PROCEEDINGS FOR 2v2:

1st Match –

Controller port selection
Double-blind character selection (may be waived with agreement of all players)
Each team may declare stage/item strikes
Opponents start the stage striking procedure (1221 order as determined by RPS)
Higher seeded team deactivates One (1) item
Lower seeded team deactivates Two (2) items
Higher seeded team deactivates One (1) item
Match begins on stage chosen during strike


Subsequent Matches –

Losing team switches the status of One (1) item
Winning team switches the status of Two (2) items
Losing team switches the status of One (1) item
Losing team picks stage
Winning team picks characters
Losing team picks characters
Match begins

Taken from SBR Recommended Brawl Stage Lists:

TOs must move stages from the starter/counterpick into either the starter or counterpick categories and must move stages from counterpick/banned into either the counterpick or banned categories.

Stages in the Starter/Counter and Counter/Banned list did not receive 2/3 majority, and therefore you are given the option to put those stages in either category, as we did not come to a consensus on it.

The SBR Recommended rule list uses the stage striking system. In this system, players take turns striking stages from the starter list until only one remains; these stages are not banned and can be counterpicked later in the set. There must be an odd number of starter stages.

Starter
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island

Starter/Counter
Castle Siege
Delfino
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium 1

Counter
Brinstar
Corneria
Distant Planet
Frigate Orpheon
Green Hill Zone
Jungle Japes
Luigi's Mansion
Norfair
Pictochat
Pirate Ship
Pokémon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise
Yoshi's Island (Pipes)

Counter/Banned
Green Greens
Mario Circuit
Onett
Port Town Aero Dive
Skyworld

Banned
75m
Big Blue
Bridge of Eldin
Flat Zone 2
Hanenbow
Hyrule Temple
Mario Bros.
Mushroomy Kingdom I
Mushroomy Kingdom II
New Pork City
Rumble Falls
Shadow Moses
Spear Pillar
The Summit
Wario Ware

Any rule-list that closely follows this guideline may include a note in its opening post (suggested beneath the tournaments title in smaller font) that reads "ISP Certified".


If you would like to read the detailed impressions of all of the items, you may find them here. If you are a tournament organizer and you would like to hold a tournament using this standard, we ask that you keep records (of some kind) of the proceedings and post in this thread any helpful information you gather during the course of the tournament.


TESTERS:

Jack Kieser (Phaze): 3566-1264-7112
Sephi_hatu (Sephi): 0087-1978-8381
Metallic_Igloo: 3523-1714-9284
nesdude: 2492-3777-7739
Rich: 0860-3024-9262
Trexxen (Trexn): 0774-3925-3469

POSTS WITH TEST DATA / WRITE-UPS:

Jack Kieser Item Test 1
nesdude Test 1
nesdude Tests 2 & 3
Jack Kieser 2v2 Test 1
Jack Kieser 1v1 Test 2
Jack Kieser Human 1v1 Test #1
'Item Standard Play' Online Tournament (4/19/08)
'Item Standard Play' 5/24 1v1 Tournament

VIDEO EXPERIMENTS:

Bombs / Pokeballs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNkWlrubGgM
nesdude Test 1 (feat. Dragoon): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Scuzoo3neLQ
nesdude Test 2: http://youtube.com/watch?v=J1yRjgtnwv4
nesdude Test 3 (feat. multiple Smash Balls): http://youtube.com/watch?v=k5WvDF6eXyI

Past News
*Good news for people who want to help test, but have no idea where to start! I finally got on my computer and made a template in Wordpad to help give people direction when they are testing. The template has slots for your input and places to put data pertaining to the test setup AND results! Unfortuantely, it's not post compatible (meaning you can't copy/paste the results into a post for SWF), but I'll work on that.

The 1v1 version can be found here, while the 2v2 version can be found here. One note: make sure your margins are .5" all around, or else the formatting goes all the hell.
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
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Location
Orlando Florida
Well, I'm glad to see that someone has actually taken the steps to make this happen. Though I probably wont be to involved in this scene myself, I'm interested in how much it will grow. I'll probably be lurking around here for a while.

And note: While I won't discuss anything relating to items in this thread (because I'm personally against them and thus would be going against the purpose of this thread), that doesn't mean that I won't stop by and debate other things every now and then.

I'll be watching:estatic:
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
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Messages
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Orlando Florida
Just for the sake of advertising this new thread, I suggest you make a topic about it in the brawl forums. A lot of people tend to skip over the other forums and go straight there instead.

Just be sure to inform them that flaming and debates about the validity of items are not welcome here.
 

Jack Kieser

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Messages
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Seattle, WA
I was thinking about it, but I wasn't sure if posting threads on other boards to advertise was frowned upon or not. If it isn't against any obscure Smashboards rule, though, then yeah, why not?
 

masterspeaks

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Messages
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Da' Boro
I already have Jack Kieser on my ignore list so I can probably guess what he is talking about. Here is a helpful tip, if you sucked too much to be competitive at Melee now is your chance to be on par with competitive Brawlers. Any sub-competitive league is sure to have meager turnout and prize pools at tournaments.
 

masterspeaks

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I already have Jack Kieser on my ignore list so I can probably guess what he is talking about. Here is a helpful tip, if you sucked too much to be competitive at Melee now is your chance to be on par with competitive Brawlers. Any sub-competitive league is sure to have meager turnout and prize pools at tournaments.
 

Sephi_hatu

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Nov 28, 2005
Messages
110
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Carrol county
Just wanna say, Im glad someone took the initiative to do this. Will quell alot of arguing.

Personally, I will be recording many videos and posting alot of relevant info. Im having a party to celebrate brawls release, and its the perfect place to do this.
 

MasterCheeze

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Oh, sounds fun. This means extensive training of the Smash Ball too! >D
 

Jack Kieser

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Sephi_hatu, I'm glad you're willing to help out with this; I'm actually doing the same thing you are (though mine is a general Spring Break party that just happens to have a Brawl tournament, and I unfortunately do not have capture equipment), so I'm curious to see how items will fare in a competitive setting.

And MasterCheeze... I have to say, even trying to be objective, the future of Smash Balls looks grim. But, personally, I want to have to ban/restrict as little as humanly possible, so I'm going to be testing the hell out of those things. :laugh:
 

Kirby King

Master Lameoid
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Being a good little conformist
I already have Jack Kieser on my ignore list so I can probably guess what he is talking about. Here is a helpful tip, if you sucked too much to be competitive at Melee now is your chance to be on par with competitive Brawlers. Any sub-competitive league is sure to have meager turnout and prize pools at tournaments.
Better tip: if you're not interested in what's going on in this thread (or, even better, don't know what's going on in this thread), stay out of it.
 

thesage

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So what items are you guys banning or not?

What would you do if a competitive player showed up and abused what makes the items broken (e.g. picking Fox/Falco/ Wolf and camping for the smash ball, using jigglypuff and camping for the screw attack)?

Edit: shouldn't the name be changed from casual competitive league, which is an oxymoron, to a competitive league with items? Casual /=/ Items, it usually means doesn't go to tournaments. I guess it could count as casual if you didn't have to pay money to get in, but then how do you pay for the venue?
 

Team Giza

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Messages
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San Diego, CA
What would you do if a competitive player showed up and abused what makes the items broken (e.g. picking Fox/Falco/ Wolf and camping for the smash ball, using jigglypuff and camping for the screw attack)?
Work around it. Find the best ways to break though the characters camping ability. Allow the camping to become part of the game. Unless something proves itself to be completely broken over a long period of time then it isn't time to ban. And in the rare event of that happening than it would designate a ban. Give these things times and I am sure that if people are dedicated enough they will find ways around them, as well as use them to make up part of the gameplay.

Edit: shouldn't the name be changed from casual competitive league, which is an oxymoron, to a competitive league with items?
First thing I thought of when coming into this topic. Made me laugh.
 

Jack Kieser

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So, time for me to answer some questions!

What would you do if a competitive player showed up and abused what makes the items broken (e.g. picking Fox/Falco/ Wolf and camping for the smash ball, using jigglypuff and camping for the screw attack)?
I'm going to let Team Giza's post answer this question, because he hit the nail right on the head:

Work around it. Find the best ways to break though the characters camping ability. Allow the camping to become part of the game. Unless something proves itself to be completely broken over a long period of time then it isn't time to ban. And in the rare event of that happening than it would designate a ban. Give these things times and I am sure that if people are dedicated enough they will find ways around them, as well as use them to make up part of the gameplay.
Banning things is not what we would like to do. We also want to give an adequate amount of time before we make any decision that the league would see as concrete, such as a definite ban on an item. We're confident that most of the 'broken' tactics of the past, like the form of camping described above, would be negated by the items themselves; the items spawns will force the match to be dynamic. (Of course, this is all conjecture until we actually set everything up and host some tournaments)

So what items are you guys banning or not?
We don't know yet; that's what all of the experiment stuff in the OP is about. See, because there are just so many changes from Melee to Brawl, and because we want to keep a progressive, open mind about what can and can't be in a tournament, we are going to re-test all of the items in Brawl (regardless of what item it is) to see the item's balance and competitive viability. The realist in me knows that certain items, such as Starmen, are most likely going to be banned, but it's important to go through the motions because the fact is... we just don't know yet.

shouldn't the name be changed from casual competitive league, which is an oxymoron, to a competitive league with items?
I had to explain this in another thread, so I'm happy to answer this question. A little while ago, KirbyKid (I believe) posted a thread detailing the kinds of Smashers there are (casual, competitive, pro, hardcore, non-players... I'm probably forgetting a few). I thought that his definitions were pretty good, and one of the reasons for this was because it allowed for meshes like 'Casual Competitive'. See, the 'Casual' moniker simply means that a player doesn't play on a 'pro level' (doesn't compete in tournaments)... but it has no bearing on actual skill playing the game, nor does it have anything to do with competitiveness (a 'casual' player can still be very skilled at the game and can be very competitive within his/her own realm).

This is why it's not an oxymoron; because 'Casual Competitive' people are who we are aiming to bring in, people who love to play Smash competitively, but don't like all the restrictiveness that may come with the highest level of tournament play. This league, like it says in the OP, can be a stepping stone to bring people into the competitive tournament scene by allowing them a place to play that is still very competitive, but has a less restrictive atmosphere that blends more to what they are used to playing.

I guess it could count as casual if you didn't have to pay money to get in, but then how do you pay for the venue?
This would ultimately be up to the individual tournament organizers, but as for a template system, I see no reason why people who really want to have cash prizes can't do so; it will have to be a reduction from other competitions, though, a sort of 'low-stakes' alternative. I'll post an excerpt from another thread; note that this is only a preliminary idea, and will probably evolve over time:

JackKieser said:
According to the information given to me by the posters in this thread, the 'average' stakes for a SWF-hosted/organized tournament is roughly 1,000$-1,500$ (so, for the sake of this hypothetical, I will use the median of 1,250$). This, at the provided average 60:30:10 split for winnings makes player earnings by place 750$:375$:125$. These stakes, I can understand, are too large for someone to be willing to lose on a match that could be decided by an item spawn.

However, (and this can be balanced later, after more deliberation), winning stakes of 120$:60$:20$ are drastically lower stakes, and thus maybe current tournament players would be more willing to play with a total pot of a mere 200$. This would also drastically reduce entry fees into the tournament.
 
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Thank goodness someone actual made a more intelligent approach to the subject and not compare/contrast factors of standard tournament play, labeling them right/wrong, if you will. I support this concept fully. I just hope no one attempts to induce a flame war here.:)
 

joepinion

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Columbus, OH
I'd like to make a suggestion on how we perceive random items, stages, and their uses in the CCL.

The current tournament scene bans items and some stages outright because it's trying to minimize chance on all fronts. The CCL is not going this direction so we need a different perspective.

Many high-stakes $$$ games rely heavily on luck, such as Texas Hold'em or Scrabble. In Scrabble, the Z is a rather broken letter, having many uses but still being worth 10 points. But does a pro-Scrabble player complain when in the finals, his opponent gets a Z at just the right time, even though he just lost out on a lot more money than any Smash player has? No.

The point here is that Scrabble is larger than just the skill of coming up with words and finding a spot for them on the board. Although those two skills are by-and-large what makes someone a world-class Scrabble player, there is a over-arching element to the game that the streamlined skill of ordering letters exists in: the game of minimizing the effects of bad luck and maximizing the effects of good luck for yourself.

When we think about what stages or items or even game modes are legal for CCL, we need to think in these terms. It's not just whether an item is unfair or not; it's how interesting the game of minimizing the bad luck and maximizing the good luck is. In this way, just because an item gives someone a good advantage for no apparent reason doesn't mean it should be banned. Part of the flow of the game should be how the opponent then survives that luck, keeps fighting, and hopes for the next turn of good fortune to land on him/her.

None of this is a criticism of current competitive play. However, I think CCL has a chance to bring back in that larger part of the flow and feel of Smash that is missing from the current high levels of competition.

Once again, many other high-stakes games rely on this kind of flow of luck, and there's not reason we can't play for money and have the same features. I hope we take this perspective into consideration as we think about what is legal.
 

Datin

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Messages
11
I love that somebody is starting up a league like this. I couldn't compete in the normal tournaments that have been around for Brawl since I didn't devote enough time into perfecting the advanced techniques needed in order to be competitive at that level. Having items and a more casual ( as Jack Kieser describes ) audience to play with will be perfect for somebody like me. Just wanted to throw in my support for this.
 

Jack Kieser

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Seattle, WA
Joe... you hit the mark perfectly. I honestly think that's what all the people using the poker metaphor have been trying to say all along! :laugh:

And to Datin: can't wait to see you at a tournament/online. I'm really glad that this project is getting the support it has; that was my real concern, to be perfectly honest.
 

Sephi_hatu

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Carrol county
In relation to tournament venues, did it ever occur to anyone that it doesnt have to be in a fire hall or whatnot? Me and my friends are just occupying a house for the night.
 

everlasting yayuhzz

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swaggin' to da maxxx
Welcome to the official project thread for the (tentatively titled) 'Casual Competition League'!
This is a moderator-approved tournament discussion thread.

[NOTE: This thread concerns offical rulesets and playstyle discussion for the creation of a unified approved item listing for item-based tournament play. This thread is NOT for:

*flaming
*discussion of whether items (in general) are tournament viable
*discussion concerning the 'randomness' of items
*trying to replace any form or facet of current, established tournament play
*etc.

If you are looking to discuss whether items should be allowed in tournaments, you have come to the wrong place.]

Mission Statement:

This mission of the 'Casual Competition League' is :

A ) To experiment to find a unified list of items that are 'approved' for item-based tournament play, as well as 'approved' playstyles and rulesets for the creation of item-based tournaments. As in any tournament format, final discretion is always in the hands of the tournament organizer.

B ) To create a league that can/will act as a stepping stone for the introduction of casual players into the competitive scene without forcing them to 'abandon' all of the conventions of casual play.

C ) To create a scene that current competitive players can go to, if they so choose, that has an alternate style of plan than what they are used to.

D ) To create a unified place that tournament organizers can come to discuss, create, and advertise item-based tournament events.


Plans:

This thread's purpose is to give members of the CCL a place to where they can discuss item-based tournament play, but first a standard for item-based play must be created. Thus, the CCL's first goal is the creation and implementation of a standard for item-based tournaments.

In order to be as open-minded and thorough as possible, all items must be tested in a range of various circumstances (1v1, 2v2, and FFA; all of which Online and Offline). Prior knowledge from Melee must, for the sake of accuracy and true balance, must be discarded, especially in light of the inclusion of a new physics engine (Havok). To accomplish this, we ask that those who would like to contribute to the project post in this thread details pertaining to item experimentation; the results of numerous experiments will ultimately determine the final item list.

[NOTE: Simply stating that Item A is broken is not enough; sufficient testing must occur.]

We ask that your post include:

*Number of rounds (the more rounds played, the more accuracy; note that each round must be identical, i.e., the same players, the same items, the same stage, the same characters, etc.)
*Stage played on
*Rules of match (Time/amount, stock/amount, special rules, etc.)
*Characters played
*Number of wins for each player/character
*Number of kills for each player/character
*Any other information you deem important

Also, if possible, note the relative skill of all players; for instance, if P1 is much more skilled than P2 and P3, make note.


If you have any questions/concerns/requests for the project, please contact me (JackKieser) either by PM or by AIM. Your support and encouragement is appreciated, and we look forward to the completion of the Casual Competition League!

 

Jack Kieser

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
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Seattle, WA
*sigh* ...what's ironic is that he quoted the OP, which specifically says 'NO FLAMES' in big, bolded letters. Oh well, some people don't learn.

On a better note, hey Merchant; glad to see a PA member could make it. ^_^
 

Houkatori

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Messages
4
I finally managed to get a forum account working here. I'm not much for analysis and gathering data and all that, but count me in as a definite supporter if any tourneys get up and running.
 

Jack Kieser

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
2,961
Location
Seattle, WA
I finally managed to get a forum account working here. I'm not much for analysis and gathering data and all that, but count me in as a definite supporter if any tourneys get up and running.
You're from the PA boards as well, right? Houk, IIRC?
 

Majist

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
240
Location
Ville of the Hunts, Alabama
*sigh* ...what's ironic is that he quoted the OP, which specifically says 'NO FLAMES' in big, bolded letters. Oh well, some people don't learn.

On a better note, hey Merchant; glad to see a PA member could make it. ^_^
wooord. i'm glad someone finally organized something like this. myself included, everyone's so fixated on ONE setting for the competitve smash scene these days:

NO ITEMS

FOX ONLY

FINAL DESTINATION

but it's good to have a little variety and actually ENJOY the game for a change.

smash balls are so busted, but GOD they're fun:grin:
 

SCOTU

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
6,636
Location
Northville, MI
i doubt this form of competition will take off, but i know some people who might be interested. it just seems like the title "Casual Competitive" are directly in conflict, which is why i don't see this taking off as a truly competitve format with any developed metagame, but i hope you guys succeed.

@Majist: lolno. FD is a pretty bad fox stage, esp in the ditto.
 

DarkDragoon

Smash Champion
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Dec 19, 2007
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AZ
NNID
LordDarkDragoon
Good to see you're rolling with my name! Good job setting this up too.

=D I'll help out any way I can!
-DD
 

DarkDragoon

Smash Champion
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Dec 19, 2007
Messages
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AZ
NNID
LordDarkDragoon
Good to see you're rolling with my name! Good job setting this up too.

=D I'll help out any way I can!
-DD
 

Majist

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
240
Location
Ville of the Hunts, Alabama
i doubt this form of competition will take off, but i know some people who might be interested. it just seems like the title "Casual Competitive" are directly in conflict, which is why i don't see this taking off as a truly competitve format with any developed metagame, but i hope you guys succeed.

@Majist: lolno. FD is a pretty bad fox stage, esp in the ditto.
oh, without a doubt. i wasn't being literal, i was just saying that the vast majority of the smash community won't play tournaments any way except having no items, only the neutral six stages, four stock, 7 minute timed matches, and such. again, i myself am one of those people, but it's nice to see a community forming that emphasizes on using more of what Smash has to offer.

...plus, i love that comic XD
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
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Jun 10, 2006
Messages
6,022
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Orlando Florida
oh, without a doubt. i wasn't being literal, i was just saying that the vast majority of the smash community won't play tournaments any way except having no items, only the neutral six stages, four stock, 7 minute timed matches, and such. again, i myself am one of those people, but it's nice to see a community forming that emphasizes on using more of what Smash has to offer.

...plus, i love that comic XD
Actually, it's 8 minute time limit. And we have 6 neutrals + 7 counterpicks giving a total of 15 stages. But lets get back on topic.

Would you consider turning off crates and capsules (if you turn crates off then capsules automatically get turned off too)? Just to eliminate the chance of hitting an exploding container during an attack. They serve no real purpose other than to be thrown at people, and we already have plenty of things to chuck without them.
 

Jack Kieser

Smash Champion
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Jan 11, 2008
Messages
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Seattle, WA
Actually, I'm pretty sure that, for most people, that was the plan anyways; like Dark Sonic says, there are plenty of items that can be thrown anyways, and in terms of balance, containers just make things more complicated than necessary. At least other items have a purpose; the only really good thing about containers is that they spawn more items... but then, the game takes care of that anyways!

Like I said earlier, I want to keep as open a mind as possible, so I'm still planning on testing containers for balance issues... but in my personal opinion, I don't think they are important enough to warrant adding them to an 'official standard'; just let individuals make that particular decision.
 

VisetheStompy

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 6, 2007
Messages
46
You already know I support this idea since you linked me to this in my thread. Just thought I would add another name to the list of supporters.:)
 

OddCrow

Smash Ace
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Sep 20, 2007
Messages
628
3DS FC
1676-3709-1310
People will still get all up in arms if their favorite item is deemed "not fair". But hey good job with this.
 

Dream Chaser

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Messages
202
Location
Adelaide, Australia
I'm glad to see a thread like this. Well done so far. Unfortunately I wont have brawl for a while since I live in Australia but I'd like to see this go well. I'll be sure to check this every so often when you guys get brawl.
 
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