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Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
4,032
Location
Earth
The easier "optimal" moonwalk is done by moving stick to opposite downward diagonal notch for frame 2 of dash, and moving to full input after. The dead zone or "center" doesn't matter at all(okay it does a little), what matters is that you wan't to have fast horizontal movement on stick, but not so fast so far left/right, that a smash turn triggers. The notches happen to be close to the border of turn, so using them makes sense.
OK, thank you! You have told me about the notch method before, but I was just wondering if that little area is the butter zone for a good moonwalk. Based on the information you have given, I can assume so.
 

tauKhan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
1,348
OK, thank you! You have told me about the notch method before, but I was just wondering if that little area is the butter zone for a good moonwalk. Based on the information you have given, I can assume so.
Your control stick inputs x-axis value on any given frame determinates your acceleration. If you look at the picture, the x-values of the diagonals are further away from the center than any point in the shielddrop area, so the notches give you better moonwalk. It's also outright easier to just hit the notches.
 
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Skymin50

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Messages
71
I've only picked up Melee a month or so back. While I know the techs (wavedash, shine cancel, multishine, l-cancelling, SHFFL, etc.) I don't know how to execute them well. Wavedashing seems to have a weird delay, and I just barely remember to impliment these things in my matches. I come from Smash 4, if that helps.

How do I learn to put these into my matches? And how should I get used to Melee's control scheme? And what uses does Multishine have for Falco?
 

FlamingForce

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
390
How feasible is it to replace a controller's cord? I feel like mine isn't long for this world but I don't want to retire my broken-into controller, it's just the cable that's being held together by tape.
 

PixelPerfect

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
78
Location
Canada
NNID
Link1182
Does anyone have any suggestions for training individually against the CPU? I don't have anyone to play with who knows much of competitive Smash and I want to train so should I set the CPU and set them to the highest level or make them level 1 and just use them as a sandbag?
 

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
4,032
Location
Earth
Does anyone have any suggestions for training individually against the CPU? I don't have anyone to play with who knows much of competitive Smash and I want to train so should I set the CPU and set them to the highest level or make them level 1 and just use them as a sandbag?
The best advice I can give about how to train against CPUs is don't. They get you into bad habits, make you think there are some true combos or chaingrabs that don't exist if the opponent DIs correctly, and it makes all of your mindgames so pointless you wonder why you even use them (until you get wrecked by your training buddy or your friend next time you smash with someone).

My second best advice is to use either levels 1-3, 5, or 7 if you need to train against CPUs. I haven't tested any of the reasons to use these levels myself and a lot of using 5 and 7 could be urban legend, but I've heard 7 has the most realistic DI. I usually train against level 7s unless I need to relieve some stress.

That's when I break out the level 1 Bowser.
 

PixelPerfect

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
78
Location
Canada
NNID
Link1182
The best advice I can give about how to train against CPUs is don't. They get you into bad habits, make you think there are some true combos or chaingrabs that don't exist if the opponent DIs correctly, and it makes all of your mindgames so pointless you wonder why you even use them (until you get wrecked by your training buddy or your friend next time you smash with someone).

My second best advice is to use either levels 1-3, 5, or 7 if you need to train against CPUs. I haven't tested any of the reasons to use these levels myself and a lot of using 5 and 7 could be urban legend, but I've heard 7 has the most realistic DI. I usually train against level 7s unless I need to relieve some stress.

That's when I break out the level 1 Bowser.
Yeah, I know that it isnt' the best option but, like I said, I don't really have anyone skilled to play with. Thanks for the info though.
 

Mr Postman

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 25, 2011
Messages
430
Location
Oregon Mountains
Hey guys, I'm looking for power shield frame data and info on all characters tech roll lengths. Wondering if maybe one of you could help me out or link me to something juicy. Thnx
 

941

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
448
Hi, I'm relatively new to the Smash community and I'm looking for some advice. I've been going to few tournaments (mostly just small ones in my local area) and I can never seem to play very well in tournament matches. I'm not really nervous during my games, I just can't seem to find a good balance between playing too conservative and choosing high-risk/low-reward options like I sometimes do in friendlies. I would much appreciate some information on this subject whether it be a link to a thread/article written about the subject or just a reply from a more experienced player than myself.
 

Kadano

Magical Express
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
2,160
Location
Vienna, Austria
Hi, I'm relatively new to the Smash community and I'm looking for some advice. I've been going to few tournaments (mostly just small ones in my local area) and I can never seem to play very well in tournament matches. I'm not really nervous during my games, I just can't seem to find a good balance between playing too conservative and choosing high-risk/low-reward options like I sometimes do in friendlies. I would much appreciate some information on this subject whether it be a link to a thread/article written about the subject or just a reply from a more experienced player than myself.
It’s stickied in this very subforum, “Drastic Improvement”.
 

Kuremusu

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
1
Apex 2015 Grand Finals spoilers below
At the end of Game 1 in the second set of Apex 2015's Grand Finals, PPMD closes out the game with an F Smash from center stage. Both Toph and D1 note Armada's poor DI (Combo DI). My question is: Where, exactly, on the control stick is Armada holding? My understanding is that it's around 4 o'clock or maybe between 4 and 5? I want to know for sure.
 

Kadano

Magical Express
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
2,160
Location
Vienna, Austria
Apex 2015 Grand Finals spoilers below
At the end of Game 1 in the second set of Apex 2015's Grand Finals, PPMD closes out the game with an F Smash from center stage. Both Toph and D1 note Armada's poor DI (Combo DI). My question is: Where, exactly, on the control stick is Armada holding? My understanding is that it's around 4 o'clock or maybe between 4 and 5? I want to know for sure.
He likely held down and away, so if he got hit towards the right, that would be 4:30, yes.
DI tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RP3sbS7Dm0
 

Bounce N Back

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Messages
23
Location
Buffalo New York or Monroe New York
I've seen auto cancelled aerials brought up time and time again by commentators or threads and stuff, but i don't actually understand what it is, how it works, all that good stuff. If someone could give me a detailed description of this I'd greatly appreciate it.
 

KevJames

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Messages
88
Location
NorCal
Is there a disadvantage to using the same L/R trigger for L-cancelling and wavedashing? I use R for L-cancelling AND wavedashing, while I use L for shielding. I'm relatively new to the game so I want to avoid bad habits now and play the most efficient way possible.
 

Bounce N Back

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Messages
23
Location
Buffalo New York or Monroe New York
Is there a disadvantage to using the same L/R trigger for L-cancelling and wavedashing? I use R for L-cancelling AND wavedashing, while I use L for shielding. I'm relatively new to the game so I want to avoid bad habits now and play the most efficient way possible.
I use L for Lcancels and wavedashing. I use R for shielding. It does not matter at all whatsoever. All for preference. Imo its easier down the road if you shield with one button and wavedash with another so you can wavedash OOS easier. But that's just me. I know PPMD wavedashes and shields with the same button. So don't worry about it man. If it feels right, go for it!
 

AirFair

Marth tho
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
1,972
Location
Houston, Texas
I agree with Bounce. I shield with L and wavedash with R, so it's easy for wd OoS. Being able to use both buttons is extremely useful.
 

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
4,032
Location
Earth
Honestly, I lightshield and then hard press to WD OoS, but like Bounce said, do whatever feels right.
 

KevJames

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Messages
88
Location
NorCal
My big issue was whether using R for both wavedash and L-cancelling would be allocating too much input to my right hand.
 

AirFair

Marth tho
Joined
Jul 1, 2014
Messages
1,972
Location
Houston, Texas
It's honestly just what makes you comfortable playing, all while being efficient. I had to get used to fullhopping with X but after awhile I kind of liked it. Just get comfortable and it will soon become habit.
 

(Buddha)

The Old Chap
Joined
Jan 19, 2015
Messages
4,388
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America
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Buddhamitsu
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Hi, just found this thread. Has anyone tried a Ken Combo with character that was not Roy or Marth? Just today i tried it with mewtwo in PM.... If i was even skilled enough to actually master the KENTWO combo it would be cool. Here is how i did it... pushed my opponent of the stage (at around 30% to 40%) Use Fair twice and while they were coming back to the stage, i got him with Dair before he was above the stage. i was like, YOOOOO! so anyone got any ideas of a Ken combo with different characters cause if you guys try it please tell me about it.
 

AirFair

Marth tho
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Messages
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Houston, Texas
That's pretty neat. The reason they call it a Ken COMBO tho is because it's a 1-2 action, without waiting for a recovery. Maybe I read it wrong but it sounded like you just got him off the stage with fair and then got him while he was coming back with Dair, which is a great edgeguard btw, but just to clarify, that wouldn't really be a combo per say.
 

tauKhan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
1,348
Grabbing ledge takes 8 frames during which you are intangible unless the animation gets interrupted with the exception that Link's ledge grab is 4 frames instead. After that you get 29 frames of intangibility, and if you drop from the ledge, you can't grab the ledge again until 30th frame after the ledgedrop (not after the ending of ledgegrab animation). So to stay fully intangible, you have to drop fp on frame 9 after the grab to be able to grab the ledge again on frame 38, the first frame after your intangibility has run out. Each frame you waste before dropping means one tangible frame before the next ledge grab.

Then there are some moves which grant extra intangible frames such as sheiks up b which makes the stall a lot more lenient.
 

d z

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 14, 2014
Messages
49
Is there any way to walk in the opposite direction from a crouch that is faster than doing a slow turnaround?
 

tauKhan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
1,348
Is there any way to walk in the opposite direction from a crouch that is faster than doing a slow turnaround?
I don't think there's any faster way than walk forward -> tilt turn -> walk backward from crouch.
 

dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
Hey guys, I'm looking for power shield frame data and info on all characters tech roll lengths. Wondering if maybe one of you could help me out or link me to something juicy. Thnx
For tech rolls:
http://smashboards.com/threads/detailed-throws-techs-and-getups-frame-data.206469/
Hi, just found this thread. Has anyone tried a Ken Combo with character that was not Roy or Marth? Just today i tried it with mewtwo in PM.... If i was even skilled enough to actually master the KENTWO combo it would be cool. Here is how i did it... pushed my opponent of the stage (at around 30% to 40%) Use Fair twice and while they were coming back to the stage, i got him with Dair before he was above the stage. i was like, YOOOOO! so anyone got any ideas of a Ken combo with different characters cause if you guys try it please tell me about it.
I know Ken himself was inspired by the N64 Falcon combo of Fair -> Dair, which is I think what defines it as a Ken Combo (Fair -> Dair).
Thats what I figured, thanks. Back to the drawing board.
I'm still researching about this myself, but would doing a smash turn help make it faster? I think I found some info on the ssbwiki article on turnarounds.
 
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Mr Postman

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 25, 2011
Messages
430
Location
Oregon Mountains
Thanks a bunch, man!

I have another question for the boys. What percent does Fox have to be at before he can wall-tech? I know this might be very situational but I'm mostly looking at it from a edge-guarding Marth's point of view. Like what percent would he have to be at to tech a Bair, Fair or Up-B? Also information on all characters in this situation would be cool, too. THNX!
 

dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
Thanks a bunch, man!

I have another question for the boys. What percent does Fox have to be at before he can wall-tech? I know this might be very situational but I'm mostly looking at it from a edge-guarding Marth's point of view. Like what percent would he have to be at to tech a Bair, Fair or Up-B? Also information on all characters in this situation would be cool, too. THNX!
You have to be in hitstun or tumbling to tech. I don't have data to back this up, but I think % shouldn't matter. I know from experience it is a weird feeling to wall-tech weak hits while at low %, but I don't think it matters.
I do know that at higher %'s it is much harder to wall tech b/c you have to SDI a lot to over come the greater knockback.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
19,346
I have another question for the boys. What percent does Fox have to be at before he can wall-tech? I know this might be very situational but I'm mostly looking at it from a edge-guarding Marth's point of view. Like what percent would he have to be at to tech a Bair, Fair or Up-B? Also information on all characters in this situation would be cool, too. THNX!
I am saying it probably is not a good idea to memorize percents in a situation like that, but merely keep playing and build up experience. Getting to the point of where you react and improvise to your opponents situation. If you see yourself hitting fox with UpB merely be ready to react to whatever happens. Does he tech jump into sideB, but you grab the ledge. Or does he tech jump into FireFox. Having an idea of what to do in those situations will generally be more helpful than percent memorization. Though a few things can be worth percent memorizing like chain grabs.

You have to be in hitstun or tumbling to tech. I don't have data to back this up, but I think % shouldn't matter. I know from experience it is a weird feeling to wall-tech weak hits while at low %, but I don't think it matters.
I do know that at higher %'s it is much harder to wall tech b/c you have to SDI a lot to over come the greater knockback.
Percentage is quite important. I have no specifics on the exact causes of what goes into causing a tech to occur, but I do know that the move used and percentage the opponent is at when hit matters. Tech timing in Melee is pretty simple. All you need to do is hit the L/R (shield) button within 20 frames before hitting a wall. When you press the shield button you will tech any surface you can in the next 20 frames. Press it again within that time and you will cancel your tech window.

The only reason it should be hard to wall tech is because you travel at a speed too fast to react too or the move you are hit with has an unusual delay before launch (Captain Falcon UpB).
 

dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
Percentage is quite important. I have no specifics on the exact causes of what goes into causing a tech to occur, but I do know that the move used and percentage the opponent is at when hit matters. Tech timing in Melee is pretty simple. All you need to do is hit the L/R (shield) button within 20 frames before hitting a wall. When you press the shield button you will tech any surface you can in the next 20 frames. Press it again within that time and you will cancel your tech window.

The only reason it should be hard to wall tech is because you travel at a speed too fast to react too or the move you are hit with has an unusual delay before launch (Captain Falcon UpB).
The reason I have doubts about % mattering for teching is b/c you can tech when pushed off while shielding. I can't think of a way for % to matter in that case, so I don't want to make an encompassing statement about teching and %.
At lower %'s, you may flinch when hit rather than getting sent into tumble; however, I'm pretty sure you can still wall tech even with a small amount of hitstun (I may be wrong about that). The only way I can imagine % influencing teching for this scenario is if the knockback is too little to force a collision, or if the hitstun wears off before hitting the wall.

I didn't mean to imply that % doesn't matter in the game. I just can't conclude that it affects whether or not you can tech.
 
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Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
19,346
Oh, that seems more out of context given the question about teching when hit rather than slipping off a platform. Within Brawl many characters actually could not tech the slipping off a platform while in shield. It was hilarious to Utilt -> Jab reset -> Fsmash as snake in that case, but I digress. I wonder if that is similar in melee. Oh, well. The mysteries to unlock.
 

tauKhan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
1,348
@ dude it's raining dude it's raining Xeylode is right, knockback that causes tumble (>= 80, for reference sheiks fair had tumble kb vs pal fox starting 38% before hit) or being in the tumble animation is required for you to be able to tech. Hitstun doesn't matter at all actually, you can still tech if you are out of hitstun, but usually when you tech you are still in hitstun. Also when falling backwards from edge during shielding, you're put into 26 frame missfoot animation, during which you can't do anything except ff. Then after that you go into tumble if you are still in the air, and can tech or do anything else. You land normally during missfoot and get knocked down during tumble.
 
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dude it's raining

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
236
@ dude it's raining dude it's raining Xeylode is right, knockback that causes tumble (>= 80, for reference sheiks fair had tumble kb vs pal fox starting 38% before hit) or being in the tumble animation is required for you to be able to tech. Hitstun doesn't matter at all actually, you can still tech if you are out of hitstun, but usually when you tech you are still in hitstun. Also when falling backwards from edge during shielding, you're put into 26 frame missfoot animation, during which you can't do anything except ff. Then after that you go into tumble if you are still in the air, and can tech or do anything else. You land normally during missfoot and get knocked down during tumble.
This is why I haven't finished the section on hitstun in my guide. Thanks for the info.
 
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