Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

[Jx31]

Really? Snake mid tier? come on man lol. he's already winning tournaments

QFT, Mike G just won Final Round 11 using Snake in the finals I heard.

 

[-: Trey :-]

Here's my tier list

SSBB Tier List

Top:
Wolf
Olimar
Marth

Upper:
Toon Link
Pit
Metaknight
Ike
Pikachu

High:
Diddy Kong
Link
Fox
Sonic

Mid:
Ice Climbers
Zero Suit Samus
Snake
Luigi
Zelda
R.O.B.
Lucas
Mario

Low:
Peach
DK
Falco
Game and Watch
Pokemon Trainer
Ness
Captain Falcon
Dedede
Bowser
Ganondorf
Sheik

Botttom:
Jiggypuff
Lucario
Wario
Yoshi

im going to have to disagree to your fantasy teir here. First Wolf isnt that great to be top tier just becuase hes your fav doesent make him automatically go up their. Shiek, Ganon, and Falco should be in an higher tier. and Dedede has to much potential to be put in the lower tier dude.

 

[Dikballistik]

I think Diddy has gotta be in the top or high middle. His dash attack can be chained into almost ANYTHING else with, as far as I can tell, no lag.

 

[slicesabre]

All this tier talk is nice, but still moot.

The game hasn't even been out a month yet. Some amazing things about Melee weren't discovered for years. I expect the same for Brawl.

 

[BDawgPHD]

All this tier talk is nice, but still moot.

The game hasn't even been out a month yet. Some amazing things about Melee weren't discovered for years. I expect the same for Brawl.

thanks for pointing out the obvious.

...no really, thanks. It's been said many times, but i don't expect you to have read the 50 pages of bull****. there's no point to this discussion, except maybe to learn some character theory.

 

[greenlink]

Not entirely, effective combos get you to high tier as well, and I'm basing this mostly on melee tiers. Top/high tier had counters, or were shiek (combo heavy). Perhaps this game is different. I doubt it highly.

Edit: Also, I wanted to do exactly your post (plus combos), except he explained individual choices, so I countered each one.

Hmm i think it will be different becuase due to the lack of combos in brawl, any charecters even with unamazing combos will place higher on the list. Also reflectors=less useful becuase of how easy it is to catch things like peach's turnips,link's bombs etc... And counters... why counter when you could just sh airdodge and then punish opponents move appropriatly? (sp?)

 

[Chariot]

Hmm i think it will be different becuase due to the lack of combos in brawl, any charecters even with unamazing combos will place higher on the list. Also reflectors=less useful becuase of how easy it is to catch things like peach's turnips,link's bombs etc... And counters... why counter when you could just sh airdodge and then punish opponents move appropriatly? (sp?)

Last part I don't know because I'm still new at this (I understand it, but wouldn't have thought of doing it). Maybe my original statement is incorrect, but I still think reflectors won't be extremely useful, as spacies will be able to use them to camp quite effectively.

That said, combos will still be effective, "lack of combos" seems silly to me, now that we've discovered chain throws, banana combos, other diddy combos, and tlink's... don't know if you want to call it combos or crazy tech. I think we're realizing we're just discovering tons of these things.

 

[Kirby M.D.]

Facepalms! Thousands of them!

This tier list discussion isn't moot, it is at once a way to catalogue general impressions and a way to keep all of the Theory Fighter discussion in one thread. I'll probably make a new one sometime this week.

 

[THEWIIStephen]

Agreed. Just wait for a few months or years then we can truly discuss this

 

[THEWIIStephen]

thanks for pointing out the obvious.

...no really, thanks. It's been said many times, but i don't expect you to have read the 50 pages of bull****. there's no point to this discussion, except maybe to learn some character theory.

this is what i agreed on

 

[Awol]

DK is a lot better than people give him credit for

My favorite of the "heavy" characters (so far)

 

[Koga]

Ok, after testing here's my impressions:

Top

Pit
Marth
Spacies

High
MK
Olimar
Diddy
Lucas
Toon Link
Zelda
Shiek
Wario
Sonic
Ike
Pikachu
Ness

Mid
R.O.B
Captain Falcon
IC
Luigi
Mario
Link
DeDeDe
PT
G&W
Snake

Low
DK
Yoshi
Bowser

 

[GreenFox]

So far Ive done best with D3, Marth I like Diddy kong but his UP+B sucks... also snake sucks

 

[GDX]

So far Ive done best with D3, Marth I like Diddy kong but his UP+B sucks... also snake sucks

...what?

10char

 

[Chariot]

So far Ive done best with D3, Marth I like Diddy kong but his UP+B sucks... also snake sucks

Try charging it? Seriously, his up+b can spike, also. His up+b gives him one of the best recoveries in the game.

 

[Ojanya]

Ok, after testing here's my impressions:

Top

Pit
Marth
Spacies

High
MK
Olimar
Diddy
Lucas
Toon Link
Zelda
Shiek
Wario
Sonic
Ike
Pikachu
Ness

Mid
R.O.B
Captain Falcon
IC
Luigi
Mario
Link
DeDeDe
PT
G&W
Snake

Low
DK
Yoshi
Bowser

lol...


10charmanders

 

[TheOfficialSonicFanboy]

I'll warn all of you ahead of time:
Jigglypuff will still be mid-high tier.
Just so you all know.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

After spending a few times on Dedede, I don't consider him the worst fighter anymore. I now see him as an average fighter.

 

[kunte kente]

Spoiler

pit, falco, fox, ike>*

it is the twist of the year.

 

[PenUmbra]

Alright, now that I own the game and have played it, let me put up what I think. It's in no particular order other then the categories.

Top
Marth
Pit
Olimar
Toon Link

High
MK
Diddy
Lucas
Zelda
Ike(yea, high tier, no more, no less)
Pikachu
DeDeDe(debated between high and top, so I guess he's inbetween IMO)
G&W
Luigi
Mario
Space animals


Mid
R.O.B(mid-high)
Jiggs(Mid-high, rest=nerfed)
IC
Link
PT
Snake
Ness
Shiek
Wario
Sonic
Samus
Lucario
Peach
Kirby

Low
Captain Falcon(He's just not quick enough now, nor does he fall fast enough. It could be that I've seen people play him as if it were melee more frequently though.)
DK
Yoshi
Bowser

 

[Awol]

Ok, after testing here's my impressions:

Top

Pit
Marth
Spacies

High
MK
Olimar
Diddy
Lucas
Toon Link
Zelda
Shiek
Wario
Sonic
Ike
Pikachu
Ness

Mid
R.O.B
Captain Falcon
IC
Luigi
Mario
Link
DeDeDe
PT
G&W
Snake

Low
DK
Yoshi
Bowser

What tests could you have possibly run in the 5 days that you've had all the characters unlocked?

Placing DK in the bottom tear so easily, hardly makes anything you say liable

 

[balzin]

I realise that these tier lists are useless and pointless, but here is my best guess at how things will turn out.

Top

Olimar
Marth
Wolf
Falco
Diddy

High
Metaknight
Fox
Lucas
Toon Link
Pit
Shiek
Sonic
Jigglypuff
Luigi


Mid
King Dedede
Snake
Ike
Pikachu
Ness
Zelda
R.O.B
Captain Falcon
Mario
Link
Pokemon Trainer
G&W
Wario

Low
Ice Climbers
DK
Yoshi
Bowser
Ganondorf


EDIT: Oh, to clarify, this is a modified version of koga's list because I'm far to lazy to type out my own.

 

[legendofme]

Wow at some of these tier lists. I swear Toon Link, Pit, Marth, Dedede, Lucas, and Metaknight will be the best characters I put money on it. I swear its a no brainer. And why do sme of you have Bowser in the bottom tier.....y'all must not have understand how gay he really he is now? Or maybe you haven't done extensive testing like you said.

 

[volbound1700]

Mine so far (in order of strength)

Top Tier:

Toon Link
Mr. Game & Watch
Pit
Sonic - if you know how to use him, could fall down below if not
Fox
Wolf
Diddy Kong
Mario
Luigi
Lucario
Falco
Squirtle
Ike

Midtier

ROB
Captain Olimer
Marth
Kirby - tougher in this one
Peach
Snake
Lucas
Zelda
Jigglypuff
Ivysaurus
Donkey Kong
Charizard
Metaknight

Low Tier

Link
King DeDeDe
Bowser
Samus
Pikachu
Captain Falcon
Yoshi
Ganondorf
Wario

Although the characters are more competitive top to bottom then in melee, no one is as bad as Pichu or Mewtwo was in Melee. IMO Toon Link has looked like the best character, but there are a lot of characters if used right that could whoop him. Fox is still very good. Diddy Kong plays very similar to the 3 star fox characters.

 

[legendofme]

You put Wario at the bottom..................................................................................I know we are just assuming becuase we only been playing it for a week...but seriously? 4 real? No doubt? Wario worse than everyone else? If there has to be a worst character it has to be Yoshi. Yoshi is indeed the least advantaged character now.

 

[demonpanther]

My Predictions

I feel that brawls tier list will be a lot closer and more fair, choosing low tier this time around won't be that bad as it was in melee.

Mario: Can combo better, has much more killing options and can edge guard his *** off with FLUDD. His recovery is not amazing however. Mario may end up in the High - Mid tier range.

Luigi: Can also combo and has even more killing power than Mario. He is fast and his recovery is up there as one of the best. He will most likely end up closer to High-mid tier.

Samus: Powerful and useful aerials and her charge shot still kills pretty well. Her missile game is not that great however and she doesn't benefit as well from Hyphen smashing. Mid tier range maybe on the high end.

Link: Powerful albeit laggy aerials. Boomerang is very useful and can edgeguard pretty well (throw boomerang opposite way, air-dodge your catching it and let the wind carry them off screen). Bombs are strong but catching projectiles is a bit too easy in this game. Mid tier.

DK: Powerful moves, quick aerials even the forward air can be used really well close to the ground. Fast tilt, /\B buffed and super armor on the DK punch is a plus. No projectiles and size still hurt the poor monkey. He will most likely Be Mid- Tier as well.

Yoshi: Nice simple one move combos, Dair to FSJ is a very very powerful edgeguard (it can take care of ROB, Pit and Metaknight with their crazy recovery) Aerials are pretty good and he is slightly heavy. His recovery can still be gimped pretty bad by High Tier people. Mid Tier but up there.

Marth: Most of his game remains the same save for shorter tipper and grab range. High Tier and mostly because it takes the least effort to re learn him.

Mr. G&W: All of his moves are extremely useful, seriously all. There is no useless move on him. Aerials are pretty good with nice priority and speed. Mobility after /\B and the shield eating turtle i would have to say High-Tier.

Kirby: Plays closer to 64, high mobility, better aerials and hammer, Dair spike after a FSJ is beastly. A light contender however dies around the 90% to 100% range. High - Mid tier

Fox: Still fast, Gimps like no ones business. Great stales to help out aerial movement. Decent approaches, priority and aerials. Not like his Melee self but still pretty **** good. High- Mid tier.

Lucas: Very powerful. Smashes are extremely good. Specials are great, his \/B hurts you. Aerials are so **** good. PK thunder recovery is not gimp-able like Ness. High Tier.

Diddy: Agile and small. Attacks do decent damage and banana game is deadly if used correctly, The popguns are a good edgeguard in some cases. Recovery is a bit problematic sometimes but wall clinging helps. Lower end of the High Tier.

Lucario: becomes more problematic with more damage he has. And since Percentages soar in this game, it is like he was tailor made for the situation. Many Disjointed attacks on this guy, a powerful projectile and decent recovery makes him a candidate for high tier.

R.O.B: Tons of priority, nice projectiles and a very awesome recovery. he is a pretty fast heavy and i see him being in the high tier as well.

Bowser: Koopa King rules no doubt. He is stronger and faster with powerful tilts and specials. Flamethrower is so useful for stopping rehashed approaches (i see u IKE). However size and lag on some aerials will keep him around High Mid Tier.

Dedede: If you do not edgeguard with this guy, you are playing him wrong. Heavy with a decent recovery and Tilts that reach farther than Marths sword. Almost spammable projectiles and really good off the edge game and a chain grab. i see him in the High - med tier range.

Falco: Moves and are great with some nice priority. The laser approach is still very solid and his recovery is a little better using the phantasm. The \/B interupts a lot of moves and his Dair while tricky is still a nice spike. High tier.

Toon Link: Besides having an awful name, His downsides are few and far between. Great for pillaring nice projectile game, WOP Bairs and a very good neutral air. Aerials are fast and powerful. That Dair is unfair sometimes. High tier.

Ike: Laggy aerials and gimp-able recovery aside, he has the most range and power of any charcter. All his aerials have range out the *** and with the use of Hyphen smashing, his Uair looks like it comes out extremely fast. I will give him High-Mid range.

Ness: is back baby, All his moves are powerful and his B> is extremely good. The Bat is still a great move and his spike can be used very well low to the ground. However his recovery is more gimp-able than Lucas, Throw a waddle dee at that PK thunder ball and u have a dead Ness. High-mid

Pit: This guys Tilts can can kill better than his smash attacks sometimes. His aerials are all good for racking up damage. His arrows are so spammable it should be illegal. His down B can stop the entirety of Pikachu's \/smash and G&W turtle and can reflect projectiles as well. If it wasn't for his very gimpable recovery he would be higher. I see him in the lower end of the High tier cast.

Peach: the princess is still powerful in her own right. The glide is still effective and the turnips can still be used effectively. specials are way better in range and speed (use her heart filled booty attack to edgeguard) however priority in most of her moves was taken away. Mid tier.

Jigglypuff: No doubt the WOP took a hit and the rest is not as deadly but all around she isn't that bad. You can still WOP but Toon Link has that covered now. She can still recover pretty well and priority is still pretty good. Loss of the grab to rest combos hurt ALOT. Low end of the Mid tier scale.

Ice Climbers: really now, they deserve more recognition. If u have not gone to their character thread, take a trip. ladies and gentleman their grab combos are still around and still just as deadly. Their recovery is way better (NANA GRABS LEDGES) and their B> is great for racking damage. High-mid by far.

Olimar: Best grab range in game, He can rack you pretty **** well and even without Pikmin priority is pretty **** high. Like pit his highly Gimpable recovery will keep him on the low end of the high tier characters.

Pkmn Trainer: Each character is better suited for others squirtle rips through most heavy characters and is on even footing with faster ones, Ivysaur however is more suited to fighting fast characters due to his range, Charizard rips Medium characters a new one. Charizard versus Marth actually works in charizards favor. All together High tier.

Wario: This guy also deserves more credit. His aerials and tilts are great. The bike as a recovery and move are really good. He is strong and pretty fast. His fart is a game ender it has super armor on first few frames and the best priority of ALL MOVES. Can blast through Links Dair. Use the fart when someone wants to Attack you from above. High Tier because once pros learn when to use the fart move it will always result in a kill.

Ganondorf: He is very pwerful with a few good tilts. Spacing is the name of the game with him. His aerials are decent and priority is pretty good. His gimp-able recovery, speed and stiff movements will keep him in the low end of the med tier range.

Wolf: Lots of priority on this guy. His blaster is as useful as Falco's. His Fsmash has a nice amount of range on it. he can gimp like fox and is overall really solid with decent recovery. High Tier

Snake: This guy is a Mindgame Monkey. He has a lot of versitility. There is no true strategy for this guy, it is sort of a react as u go kinda deal. All his moves have decent priority and knockback so it really just becomes how can i get my opponent trapped. High Tier only because it is unclear what his limitations are.

Sonic: Fast... thats it. Thats all.... Fast. If you are about to touch the ground be sure that Sonic will be next to u before you can blink. His aerials are all decent and his redundant specials are very useful for certain situations. His B when used as an edgeguard works wonders and his recovery is pretty **** good. High - Mid range.

Zelda: Great aerials. All are good and useful. Dins fire is very spammable. Pit contends with her the most. her ground game leaves a bit to be desired. High - Mid tier.

Sheik: She makes up for Zelda's ground game, as her Aerials are not that great. He can still kill but i can definately see people switching to Zelda when they want to go for the kill.
(wait until u are knocked high in the air to safely change) High - mid tier.

Pikachu: IS BACK. Priority was given to him on most moves. Combo-able Fair and sick Dsmash makes this guy a hassle. Thunder is now spammable cause of the low amount of lag afterwards now. Oh yeah, he still spams thundershocks as well. Upper part of the High-Mid Tier

Metaknight: Truly a monster in the right hands. Best recovery by far, and to those that say he doesn't have any kill moves clearly have forgotten about his /\B and glide slash. He has decent priority and extremely quick attacks. Great at pillaring. he can rack you up **** quick and knock you away quicker. The only true problem with him is his weight. You may be dead before you capitalize on that 200+ damage you gave to your opponent. Upper High - mid Tier.

ZSS: Fast and has Range Comparable to Ike. her b> (for those that don't know) is her longest attack and the tip can kill at 150%. yessir deadly. her recovery is her B\/ as well as her B/\. She is good. High-mid tier.

Captain Falcon: What a fall from grace this man has reserved. he was hit so hard with the nerf bat it is harder and harder for this guy to match up against competent players. Priority is really low on most moves. Hyphen Smashing helps some as well as lagless aerials. Most combos are gone due to the floatiness of the game. I hate to say that this guy is most likely gonna stay in the Mid - Low tier for quite some time.

NOTE THIS IS RELATIVE TO CURRENT SKILL AND WILL CHANGE.

High Tier

Marth
ROB
Toon Link
G&W
Falco
Wario
Olimar
Wolf
Diddy
Lucas
Pit
Lucario
PKMN Trainer
Snake

High-Mid Tier

Ike
Fox
Dedede
Kirby
ZSS
Pikachu
Ness
Sonic
Zelda/Sheik
Metaknight
Kirby
Luigi
Ice Climbers

Middle Tier

Mario
Bowser
Yoshi
Samus
Link
Peach
DK
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf

Middle-Low Tier

Captain Falcon

 

[FuLLBLeeD]

You put Wario at the bottom..................................................................................I know we are just assuming becuase we only been playing it for a week...but seriously? 4 real? No doubt? Wario worse than everyone else? If there has to be a worst character it has to be Yoshi. Yoshi is indeed the least advantaged character now.

You kidding me? Yoshi is amazing, much better than he was in Melee.

 

[jpRUBIX]

I dont know it should matter.
I mean, what does a tier list even acomplish? it just tells which characters are the best/most used.
that really shouldn't be the decider of what character you should use.

This time around though the characters are WAY more balanced which means that it will be harder to distinguish the "whose better than who" lists.

I just really dont want Brawl to end up like Melee where it seems like everyone is either Fox/Falco/Marth or whoever. Being good with a supposedly "low tier" charcter is way cooler than just playing with a strong and easy to use character.

Marth *cough* metaknight *cough*

 

[demonpanther]

I dont know it should matter.
I mean, what does a tier list even acomplish? it just tells which characters are the best/most used.
that really shouldn't be the decider of what character you should use.

This time around though the characters are WAY more balanced which means that it will be harder to distinguish the "whose better than who" lists.

I just really dont want Brawl to end up like Melee where it seems like everyone is either Fox/Falco/Marth or whoever. Being good with a supposedly "low tier" charcter is way cooler than just playing with a strong and easy to use character.

Marth *cough* metaknight *cough*

When money is on the line having the better character gives you an edge. Brawl is truly more balanced. The way i see it, The characters listed in my post that are High and High-Mid will be used in tournaments more often and will fair almost equally well. That is a way better jump in terms of numbers from Melee

 

[Xtrm]

I say Toon Link, Marth, Space Animals, Pit, and Metaknight.

Why Toon Link? He's quick, light. You can easily string together his aerials. And his aerials can all kill.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

characters that can win tournaments
snake

characters that cant win tournaments where snake is present
everyone except snake

characters that can win tournaments where snake isn't present
everyone

 

[Zink]

characters that can win tournaments
snake

characters that cant win tournaments where snake is present
everyone except snake

characters that can win tournaments where snake isn't present
everyone

you are forgetting someone...name starts with a W and it isn't "wario".

 

[Gimpyfish62]

wsnake is not a character

 

[Zero Beat]

Wait until Sheik begins to prosper again.

Then we'll see who wins at tournaments.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

snake will

 

[Zink]

wsnake is not a character

neither is chuck norris, but it's irrelevant because snake is bad in brawl.

 

[Vegeta214]

you are forgetting someone...name starts with a W and it isn't "wario".

...Walther?

 

[Jeff Highwind]

snake will

Gimpyfish just became my favorite mod

 

[Zink]

Wait until Sheik begins to prosper again.

Then we'll see who wins at tournaments.

DUDE ZERO BEAT IS BACK I HAVEN'T SEEN YOU IN MONTHS HI SUP

 

[Ripple]

I say Toon Link, Marth, Space Animals, Pit, and Metaknight.

Why Toon Link? He's quick, light. You can easily string together his aerials. And his aerials can all kill.

meta won't be top tier at least because of his lack of kill moves. replace him with G&W