i always understood tiers to be a representation of which character has the most potential. in melee, fox is ridiculously hard to achieve his full potential, but at that full potential, it is clear to see why he is top. marth is clear to see why he's up there. he's stupid fast, huge range, great priority, a combo king... all these things are not about individual matchups at any skill level, but rather the potential for success that each character possesses. as i understand it, tier lists are developed by taking the statistics of many many tournament matches. i would also have to assume there might be some judgment call tweaks to the list. that being said, i would say it's extremely difficult to make up a tier list based on the short amount of time we've had the game. i'm sure everyone is aware of this to some extent, but it's still an important point to note. i think the best thing we can do is discuss the pros and cons of each character, also discuss any counter characters, discuss any potential marth killers, etc., any super armor frames like ike's b, etc., and also we might even want to consider and discuss the difficulty of achieving a certain character's full potential. without discussing all of these points, it is fruitless to make everybody's tier list and bicker about why rob should be higher or why zss should be lower or why ike's strength outweighs his speed, or doesn't. the only thing this will create is tension and argument on the forums and that is something i personally don't want to read. i don't know about anybody else here, but...
the point is, we need to take a step back, and really look at the whole picture of every aspect of a character before we can truely assess his or her potential. i highly advise, nay, implore you to refrain from commenting on any characters you have not had a considerable amount of time playing. also, refrain from commenting on any matchups between individual characters that you have not had a considerable amount of time playing from both sides. a considerable amount of time playing also means playing people of varying skill-level.
alright, that being said i feel the two characters i have any right discussing are marth and ike.
ike is obviously considerably slower than most characters. he is also, obviously, considerably stronger than most characters. an extremely excellent fast approach is the reverse aerial rush. his back air has almost no startup frames, is very powerful with great knock-back but doesn't have the best comboing ability, ironically, because of the large knockback. obviously, his tripple-tap A is a great move that can much more easily set up for combos than the RAR. the forward B is another reasonably quick move with not... a phenomenal amount of ending lag. it also is a reasonably good combo starter. but of course, we can't forget his dash attack. this is an excellent combo starter, imo his best. it deals a reasonable amount of damage, has great range, knocks them up, but not too far--especially at low percentages, and doesn't have too much ending lag which allows for him to serve his opponent up straight into a nice fair. now, that's honestly about it that i have found for his combo starting. his Fair isn't bad, but again, a little slow--and seems more like a combo continuer, than a starter. on the subject of combo continuers, what does ike have? well, for one, his Fair. his great range of all attacks and varying strength over the length of his sword lends him nicely to spacing which does obviously complicate and extend the possibilities with each attack. as i've already said, dash attack to fair is a great short combo, but if the fair is hit with the weaker tip of the sword, and hence less knock back, a land to an aerial rush might be a nice little continuer. at most percentages, that will have them off the stage. at this point, we can consider what ike's edge guarding abilities are.
his charge B is obviously excellent. it has an incredible range above, below, and all around him. also, with the advantage of super armor, this move is ideal for edge guarding. also, the huge amount of chargeup time (what is the total time, like 15-20 seconds?) it allows for very little delaying that the opponent can do to avoid the attack until it's done. so obviously the success of the charged b, if well timed, is huge. it also lends well to grabbing smash balls (i've grabbed a ball with little charge on the first hit), which is obviously useless for most tournaments, but i feel it's good to note. besides his B, an edge-hopped bair is definitely a good alternative. also, depending on how predictable and vulnerable the opponent is, just a simple spike is a worth while possibility.
ike is quite heavy, so he stays alive pretty well, but his recovery isn't the greatest. it's not too bad, but there's certainly better. the up B is reasonably difficult to stop, but has a fair amount of lag if he misses the edge and lands on the stage. also, his side-b is extraordinarily predictable, and even stopable if the opponent has confidently low percentages, he can jump off and into the way of ike's over B which will stop him dead and he'll fall.
i see ike as an excellent 2v2 supporter. if the team works well together, one player could potentially setup for combos and ike can powerhouse him while he's stunned,which will allow for him to be useful regardless of his speed.
marth is obviously extremely good. he's faster than he was in melee, his tippers are actually as far as i can tell more powerful. he's floatier, which makes his short hop double fair even easier to pull off, but also potentially makes him a little easier to combo depending on the opponent. his juggling skills are top notch. his aerials allow for such ease to toss your opponent about. however, his sword is definitely shorter, his non tippers are less powerful than they were in melee, and his recovery is not quite as good.
his grabbing isn't as good in this game. he can't chain grab, as far as i know anybody, and the grabs he does have don't set up as well for combos. granted, people can still be combo'd with marth, just not as easily. he's pretty much the same character. the ken combo can be DIed away from easier if i remember correctly, but is still a usable combo.
any critique on my points is more than welcome
-THIS is Zema's Medal for intelligent post. Awarded to NEOTERIC-
