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Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)

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Gojira

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Messages
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Location
CHUCK NORRIS FOR BRAWL!!!
lol

People keep bashing bowser...alot....

One thing people forget is Bowsers shield fortress. Yes it has been nerfed and is not AS strong but its still easy damage. This move still beats out everything. Dash attack? shield fortress, JCusmash? Shield fortress, jab combo? shield fortress.

F-tilt-this has been buffed and can been done fast in succession and has pretty good range and priority.

His U-air is a bit stronger and a bit faster coming out, and his U-tilt is still really really fast to come out. Plus the super armor on his claw allows for easier slams then we first thought(since it got a range nerf).

IM not saying this because im biased about Bowser, I'm just saying people are overlooking all the casts buffs and nerfs. For example, Yoshi was crap in brawl but now his eggs help his recovery a bit. This could help him big time as meta game develops.

I am also thinking people are trying to play the brawl cast like their melee counterparts and think wow he sucks now(Dk and Cf for example). And with the new brawl characters everyone is thinking wow he is Broken(olimar and marth). Meta game still has to develope big time before we say who is broken and who sucks big balls.
 

armlx

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
14
Ummm, in Brian, in M:tG there's definitely tier structures.........

Pika: Attacks seem good on the surface, but they are sooo laggy its almost unreal. Seriously, its all oops, missed, I die with Pika.

ROB is good, just he has a lot of laggy attacks as well, especially in the air, which is a shame as the has the 2nd most abusable air maneuvers in the game next to Pit.
 

Brianc608

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
2
Ummm, in Brian, in M:tG there's definitely tier structures.........
I should have clarified, I'm talking about the vintage format. yes, there are definetly BAD legal vintage decks you can make, but I'm talking about true documented vintage decks. If any one or two decks are TOP tier (consistantly taking tournament wins), changes are made to fix this. Yeah, you could throw together a burn deck and bring it to a vintage tourney, but it's not really a vintage deck. As far as vintage decks that are played, all have their advantages and disadvantages, but no deck is considered a "top" deck.

I knew using MtG as an example was probably a bad idea because it is SO much different than Smash, but the main point I was making is that the game is incredibly balanced (at least in legacy and vintage), and hopefully we something similar in Brawl.
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
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Aug 11, 2005
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ShinEmblemLord
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Falco wasn't nerfed.

He was changed. And his recovery is better.
 

Manu

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
73
My opinion is...

nobody has played the game enough to start talking. I have a good Snake friend and a good Marth friend, none of them play Diddy Kong so would I put Diddy below the two? Of course not, the tier list will be decided after a few tourneys.
 

Nasty_Nate

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 22, 2006
Messages
1,164
Oh what the hell, Im bored so Ill make my own
This is based on what ive seen in tournament results and all the experimenting ive done with different characters (Ive played since the release)
If a character isnt placed well its because I havent seen anyone use this character efficiently, including myself
Ive also stated reasons why I put characters on the tiers they are at. If you disagree, give me a good reason and we can talk about it.

Please rate this list and if you dont like it tell me why

Top Tier:
-Metaknight (His recovery is beast, his spacing is beast, his speed is good, and he has alot of moves that are useful. Downsides are hes light and he has few killing moves, but the rest of his game is too good.)

-Snake (one of the heaviest characters and tilt combos kill easily. Maybe he should be top for now)

-Olimar (awesome range and grab range. Hes pretty strong and not a big target. Biggest downside is that he can be edgehogged in a game where few people can)

-Toon Link (Fast, strong, can combo, and has good projectiles. Dont see many downsides, so Im surprised I havent seen more people use him)

-Marth (Still has good range, and same melee ken combo. Side b is easy to hit. Doesnt have very good recovery, but is still good character all around. Might be high because people already have an idea of how to play him)

-Pikachu (has good range, is strong, and is hard to approach if you spam b. No killing move arials, but otherwise a good character. Havent seen many pikachu mains either)

-Diddy Kong (Has good combos at low percents, a decent recovery, and BANANAS!! Downside is he can be edgehogged as well, and alot of his game relies on bananas and good reads. I might have placed him so high since hes my main and I know his strengths well)

Middle Tier
-Lucas (Good spacing and is pretty strong. His Pk thunder is good to abuse and alot of moves kill. Havent seen many lucas users either, so may not be best placing for him)

-Ike (Strong, good range, and has a variety of unique moves, like his upb which is fast and hard to avoid, and his b which he cant be hit out of. Good tilts too. Downside is his obvious slowness in how fast his moves come out and his speed in general

-Zelda (Good priority with her attacks, dins fire is good, and is pretty strong. Recovery is still really good. Downside is shes a little slow)

-Falco (Lasers are good and can laser lock when opponent is knocked down. Forward tilt reaches far and uptilt can combo for a while. Downside is horrible up b recovery and down air doesnt spike like melee)

-R.O.B (Decent range, good damage, and projectiles arent bad. Good recovery, good tilts, and fairly heavy. Downside is he's a little slow and his arials take a while to come out.)

-Fox (Drill to uptilt works wonders, fast, and has good recovery. Downside is upair is harder to hit, so he has to rely on smashes more often for kills.

-Ness (Whole moveset is generally better than melees, and has good recovery. Downside is that his projectiles arent as good as lucas's, and moves dont have as much range. Yoyos do, but are a little bit slow in coming out)

-Luigi (Good arials, good smashes, and fireballs come out quickly. Downside is his tilts arent very good, and his upb is hard to hit)

-Mario (Pretty fast, ok moveset, and good recovery. Downside is his fsmash doesnt reach as far as melees, and his range isnt as good as it used to be)

-Pokemon Trainer (each pokemon has good moves. Squirtle is fast with good upsmash, ivysaurs bullet seed gives an easy 60 percent, and Charizards strong and a good rocksmash does a grip of damage. Different strengths and weaknesses for each pokemon)

-Mr game and watch (Good range, good damage, and decent speed. Downside is his moves stay out for a while, so if you miss you can be easily punished. Upsmash and bacon toss suck too)

-Kirby (good range and good killing moves. Downside is he is slow and light)

-Wario (floaty and arials have alot of range and can be spammed. Downsides are his killing moves, such as forward smash, the fart, and up air are hard to hit, and if his bike is on stage his recovery sucks.)

-King dedede (chain grab helps alot in evening matchups with other characters, hes strong and has some good fast moves like his back air. Downside is his killing moves are hard to hit and he can be edgehogged. Should probably be placed higher but I havent seen good dedede competition)

-ZSS (Fast and has good range. Downside is she can be edgehogged, she doesnt have many killing moves, and she is light)

-Shiek (Fast, side tilt is really good, and needles are an easy 20 percent. Downsides are most good things, such as forward air or needle storms, have been nerfed, and has a lack of killing moves.)

(These next few Ive had the least experience with, and havent seen many people use them, but I think they should be around this place in the list and this order)

-Ice Climbers (the one I have no idea of about placing. Help please)

-Wolf (should probably be placed higher, but need good reasons)

-Peach (most things have been downgraded from melee, most notably her down smash and her turnip spam, but her fsmash is stronger)

-Donkey Kong (seems better than melee but is still slow)

-Bowser (some things are better and some things are worse than melee. Not sure about placing)

-Jigglypuff (worse than melee, rest is USELESS)

-Link (a slower version of toon link with worse projectiles)

-Samus (projectiles dont make up for her lack of speed)

-Yoshi (havent decided, need help with this one)
(Help me with those guys ^)

Bottom Tier
-Lucario (combos do little damage, and waiting til high percents to stand a chance sucks)

-Sonic (Fast runner.... thats about it)

-Ganondorf (Side b reads go a long way, but his moveset in general sucks.)

-Captain Falcon (his up air can combo and you can neutral air to grab, but other than that I dont see any good moves)
 

OoNoiRoO

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 16, 2006
Messages
371
Oh what the hell, Im bored so Ill make my own
This is based on what ive seen in tournament results and all the experimenting ive done with different characters (Ive played since the release)
If a character isnt placed well its because I havent seen anyone use this character efficiently, including myself
Ive also stated reasons why I put characters on the tiers they are at. If you disagree, give me a good reason and we can talk about it.

Please rate this list and if you dont like it tell me why

Top Tier:
-Metaknight (His recovery is beast, his spacing is beast, his speed is good, and he has alot of moves that are useful. Downsides are hes light and he has few killing moves, but the rest of his game is too good.)

-Snake (one of the heaviest characters and tilt combos kill easily. Maybe he should be top for now)

-Olimar (awesome range and grab range. Hes pretty strong and not a big target. Biggest downside is that he can be edgehogged in a game where few people can)

-Toon Link (Fast, strong, can combo, and has good projectiles. Dont see many downsides, so Im surprised I havent seen more people use him)

-Marth (Still has good range, and same melee ken combo. Side b is easy to hit. Doesnt have very good recovery, but is still good character all around. Might be high because people already have an idea of how to play him)

-Pikachu (has good range, is strong, and is hard to approach if you spam b. No killing move arials, but otherwise a good character. Havent seen many pikachu mains either)

-Diddy Kong (Has good combos at low percents, a decent recovery, and BANANAS!! Downside is he can be edgehogged as well, and alot of his game relies on bananas and good reads. I might have placed him so high since hes my main and I know his strengths well)

Middle Tier
-Lucas (Good spacing and is pretty strong. His Pk thunder is good to abuse and alot of moves kill. Havent seen many lucas users either, so may not be best placing for him)

-Ike (Strong, good range, and has a variety of unique moves, like his upb which is fast and hard to avoid, and his b which he cant be hit out of. Good tilts too. Downside is his obvious slowness in how fast his moves come out and his speed in general

-Zelda (Good priority with her attacks, dins fire is good, and is pretty strong. Recovery is still really good. Downside is shes a little slow)

-Falco (Lasers are good and can laser lock when opponent is knocked down. Forward tilt reaches far and uptilt can combo for a while. Downside is horrible up b recovery and down air doesnt spike like melee)

-R.O.B (Decent range, good damage, and projectiles arent bad. Good recovery, good tilts, and fairly heavy. Downside is he's a little slow and his arials take a while to come out.)

-Fox (Drill to uptilt works wonders, fast, and has good recovery. Downside is upair is harder to hit, so he has to rely on smashes more often for kills.

-Ness (Whole moveset is generally better than melees, and has good recovery. Downside is that his projectiles arent as good as lucas's, and moves dont have as much range. Yoyos do, but are a little bit slow in coming out)

-Luigi (Good arials, good smashes, and fireballs come out quickly. Downside is his tilts arent very good, and his upb is hard to hit)

-Mario (Pretty fast, ok moveset, and good recovery. Downside is his fsmash doesnt reach as far as melees, and his range isnt as good as it used to be)

-Pokemon Trainer (each pokemon has good moves. Squirtle is fast with good upsmash, ivysaurs bullet seed gives an easy 60 percent, and Charizards strong and a good rocksmash does a grip of damage. Different strengths and weaknesses for each pokemon)

-Mr game and watch (Good range, good damage, and decent speed. Downside is his moves stay out for a while, so if you miss you can be easily punished. Upsmash and bacon toss suck too)

-Kirby (good range and good killing moves. Downside is he is slow and light)

-Wario (floaty and arials have alot of range and can be spammed. Downsides are his killing moves, such as forward smash, the fart, and up air are hard to hit, and if his bike is on stage his recovery sucks.)

-King dedede (chain grab helps alot in evening matchups with other characters, hes strong and has some good fast moves like his back air. Downside is his killing moves are hard to hit and he can be edgehogged. Should probably be placed higher but I havent seen good dedede competition)

-ZSS (Fast and has good range. Downside is she can be edgehogged, she doesnt have many killing moves, and she is light)

-Shiek (Fast, side tilt is really good, and needles are an easy 20 percent. Downsides are most good things, such as forward air or needle storms, have been nerfed, and has a lack of killing moves.)

(These next few Ive had the least experience with, and havent seen many people use them, but I think they should be around this place in the list and this order)

-Ice Climbers (the one I have no idea of about placing. Help please)

-Wolf (should probably be placed higher, but need good reasons)

-Peach (most things have been downgraded from melee, most notably her down smash and her turnip spam, but her fsmash is stronger)

-Donkey Kong (seems better than melee but is still slow)

-Bowser (some things are better and some things are worse than melee. Not sure about placing)

-Jigglypuff (worse than melee, rest is USELESS)

-Link (a slower version of toon link with worse projectiles)

-Samus (projectiles dont make up for her lack of speed)

-Yoshi (havent decided, need help with this one)
(Help me with those guys ^)

Bottom Tier
-Lucario (combos do little damage, and waiting til high percents to stand a chance sucks)

-Sonic (Fast runner.... thats about it)

-Ganondorf (Side b reads go a long way, but his moveset in general sucks.)

-Captain Falcon (his up air can combo and you can neutral air to grab, but other than that I dont see any good moves)
TL ; DR, online money match nao.
 

Gazdakka Gizbang

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 4, 2006
Messages
180
I don't really care about what people rate as their tier lists. So long as Samus still fits like a glove to my playstyle, and I can still beat my friend on whatever character he plays 6.5 days of the week with her, I'll be happy with the game.

Can't wait until it comes out Down Under.
 

SlikRick

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 30, 2004
Messages
3
Impressive List Nate. I agree with your opinions on Toon Link, in my opinion hes the best in the game, quick speed with decent power and finishers, along with little lag. Also good placement with Olimar. Peach needs to be bottom tier, her down smash is garbage and her recovery is so slow it makes her a simple target. Meta Knight really needs to be mid tier, he may have excellent recovery but whats the point when he gets knocked out at a mere 90%. His lack of finishers is a really big deal, you need to bring opponents to a good 130-140% before you have a chance of finishing them.
 

TechnoMonster

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
836
Cleanly, the gayest characters are Snake, Pit, and Marth. Olimar is very good too. Lucario is better than people are saying, his fsmash is quite spammable and he can live for a long time with his quality recovery and weight to use his power effectively. I feel that Toon Link is very good against top tiers, but is very beatable by a variety of characters (like my Ivysaur biatches), and may place similar to sheik in melee; top tier but not the best.

I think Ike is overrated. He can get some beast power combos but is slow enough to be shut down and out-mindgamed by any decently fast character from Squirtle to Sonic.

P.T. is coming along nicely as a strong mid tier, and for this first list I think he'll be a good indicator of the tiers. For instance, Marth, Pit, and Meta do well against him, while weaker characters like Yoshi, Dorf and Fox struggle to pull out any kind of a win.


Peach plays similar to how she played. Dsmash is still good for damage, F-air for killing, good unpredictable recovery and turnips are still good, don't bash her too much, she'll see her fair share of fans, and I'd put her solidly in the mid tier, just below my man PT.
 

_Riot_

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 8, 2006
Messages
403
Location
Florida
man. why does this thread still exist?
Everyone is good in brawl. The high tier characters you guys mention are just easier to play than other characters.
But everyone is good. Except for Link. That guy still sucks. Its like he got worst from being in Melee. Wheres his up-b? Oh wait. Its not there. He does'nt go anywhere with it. Whats the point of playing a character that has almost no chance of coming back to the stage? I mean..even Ike has better recovery than Link. And Ike's recovery blows hard c0ck.
I'll go as far as to say that Ness's recovery in melee is better than his. And Ness stays in the air for like 10 minutes before hitting himself. And when he does hit himself. He floats in the air for another 10 minutes just waiting to be hit. lol.
Link sux.

But still. I guess Tiers have to exist anyways. :|
Guilty Gear has tiers and that game is really well balanced. Holy Order Sol is bottom tier, but why did a HO Sol win a huge tournament? I think it was Evo.
lol.
So this tier list will be a pure popularity contest between who is the most popular character.

Lol i will agree GG is really well balanced but uh, i play HOS, and hes C teir it goes from top to bottom: S,A,B,C,D,F
 

Nasty_Nate

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 22, 2006
Messages
1,164
Impressive List Nate. I agree with your opinions on Toon Link, in my opinion hes the best in the game, quick speed with decent power and finishers, along with little lag. Also good placement with Olimar. Peach needs to be bottom tier, her down smash is garbage and her recovery is so slow it makes her a simple target. Meta Knight really needs to be mid tier, he may have excellent recovery but whats the point when he gets knocked out at a mere 90%. His lack of finishers is a really big deal, you need to bring opponents to a good 130-140% before you have a chance of finishing them.
Good MKs use forward smash, and when someone trys to abuse the lag it takes afterwards a quick dsmash usually kills. If you roll towards MK after the fsmash the dsmash will hit too. Also his upb or upb slash is a good killer when people are off stage or high in the air. He dominates platform stages. If MK isnt number 1 right now, he still deserves a spot near the top, at LEAST top 4
 

yWizePapaSmurfy

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
7
Oh what the hell, Im bored so Ill make my own
This is based on what ive seen in tournament results and all the experimenting ive done with different characters (Ive played since the release)
If a character isnt placed well its because I havent seen anyone use this character efficiently, including myself
Ive also stated reasons why I put characters on the tiers they are at. If you disagree, give me a good reason and we can talk about it.

Please rate this list and if you dont like it tell me why

Top Tier:
-Metaknight (His recovery is beast, his spacing is beast, his speed is good, and he has alot of moves that are useful. Downsides are hes light and he has few killing moves, but the rest of his game is too good.)

-Snake (one of the heaviest characters and tilt combos kill easily. Maybe he should be top for now)

-Olimar (awesome range and grab range. Hes pretty strong and not a big target. Biggest downside is that he can be edgehogged in a game where few people can)

-Toon Link (Fast, strong, can combo, and has good projectiles. Dont see many downsides, so Im surprised I havent seen more people use him)

-Marth (Still has good range, and same melee ken combo. Side b is easy to hit. Doesnt have very good recovery, but is still good character all around. Might be high because people already have an idea of how to play him)

-Pikachu (has good range, is strong, and is hard to approach if you spam b. No killing move arials, but otherwise a good character. Havent seen many pikachu mains either)

-Diddy Kong (Has good combos at low percents, a decent recovery, and BANANAS!! Downside is he can be edgehogged as well, and alot of his game relies on bananas and good reads. I might have placed him so high since hes my main and I know his strengths well)

Middle Tier
-Lucas (Good spacing and is pretty strong. His Pk thunder is good to abuse and alot of moves kill. Havent seen many lucas users either, so may not be best placing for him)

-Ike (Strong, good range, and has a variety of unique moves, like his upb which is fast and hard to avoid, and his b which he cant be hit out of. Good tilts too. Downside is his obvious slowness in how fast his moves come out and his speed in general

-Zelda (Good priority with her attacks, dins fire is good, and is pretty strong. Recovery is still really good. Downside is shes a little slow)

-Falco (Lasers are good and can laser lock when opponent is knocked down. Forward tilt reaches far and uptilt can combo for a while. Downside is horrible up b recovery and down air doesnt spike like melee)

-R.O.B (Decent range, good damage, and projectiles arent bad. Good recovery, good tilts, and fairly heavy. Downside is he's a little slow and his arials take a while to come out.)

-Fox (Drill to uptilt works wonders, fast, and has good recovery. Downside is upair is harder to hit, so he has to rely on smashes more often for kills.

-Ness (Whole moveset is generally better than melees, and has good recovery. Downside is that his projectiles arent as good as lucas's, and moves dont have as much range. Yoyos do, but are a little bit slow in coming out)

-Luigi (Good arials, good smashes, and fireballs come out quickly. Downside is his tilts arent very good, and his upb is hard to hit)

-Mario (Pretty fast, ok moveset, and good recovery. Downside is his fsmash doesnt reach as far as melees, and his range isnt as good as it used to be)

-Pokemon Trainer (each pokemon has good moves. Squirtle is fast with good upsmash, ivysaurs bullet seed gives an easy 60 percent, and Charizards strong and a good rocksmash does a grip of damage. Different strengths and weaknesses for each pokemon)

-Mr game and watch (Good range, good damage, and decent speed. Downside is his moves stay out for a while, so if you miss you can be easily punished. Upsmash and bacon toss suck too)

-Kirby (good range and good killing moves. Downside is he is slow and light)

-Wario (floaty and arials have alot of range and can be spammed. Downsides are his killing moves, such as forward smash, the fart, and up air are hard to hit, and if his bike is on stage his recovery sucks.)

-King dedede (chain grab helps alot in evening matchups with other characters, hes strong and has some good fast moves like his back air. Downside is his killing moves are hard to hit and he can be edgehogged. Should probably be placed higher but I havent seen good dedede competition)

-ZSS (Fast and has good range. Downside is she can be edgehogged, she doesnt have many killing moves, and she is light)

-Shiek (Fast, side tilt is really good, and needles are an easy 20 percent. Downsides are most good things, such as forward air or needle storms, have been nerfed, and has a lack of killing moves.)

(These next few Ive had the least experience with, and havent seen many people use them, but I think they should be around this place in the list and this order)

-Ice Climbers (the one I have no idea of about placing. Help please)

-Wolf (should probably be placed higher, but need good reasons)

-Peach (most things have been downgraded from melee, most notably her down smash and her turnip spam, but her fsmash is stronger)

-Donkey Kong (seems better than melee but is still slow)

-Bowser (some things are better and some things are worse than melee. Not sure about placing)

-Jigglypuff (worse than melee, rest is USELESS)

-Link (a slower version of toon link with worse projectiles)

-Samus (projectiles dont make up for her lack of speed)

-Yoshi (havent decided, need help with this one)
(Help me with those guys ^)

Bottom Tier
-Lucario (combos do little damage, and waiting til high percents to stand a chance sucks)

-Sonic (Fast runner.... thats about it)

-Ganondorf (Side b reads go a long way, but his moveset in general sucks.)

-Captain Falcon (his up air can combo and you can neutral air to grab, but other than that I dont see any good moves)
Luigi's Up-B is a tad EASIER to connect with, jab twice and unleash.

Why aren't Zelda and Shiek considered the same character? They are now made in a way you have to rely on both forms. Thereby, I say if they are both Middle, shouldn't they at least be near the top of the Middle Tier? Other than that, good predictions, Snake is a crazy choice, but after seeing some pros with him in action, he actually does look like a beast 'cuz of those tilt combos. Backed up by his specialty explosives, he's got great KO power if not combo string power.
 

Umby

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
3,194
Location
I'm just your problem~
Having to rely on both Zelda and Sheik (which isn't necessarily true) doesn't mean they have the same kind of playing ability in general matchups. It's not as huge a difference as it was in Melee, but still. Not to mention, having to wait so long to transform is a pain in the ***.
 

swim2007

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
135
Here is my list after playing some characters for a while. I will only include the characters that I have spent considerable time with in the list

High

Dedede
Marth
Lucas
Pit
Luigi
Diddy Kong

Middle

MetaKnight
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Olimar
Ike
Mario
Rob
Wario

Low

DK
Pokemon Trainer
Bowser
Link
Ice Climbers



Note: In each category low, mid, high; the characters are listed in no particular order.
 

Chrono Centaur

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
137
Umm Ike is NOT top-tier

his crazy lag and horrible recoveries basically doom him against all faster characters, such as MK or Squirtle, who can get a shot off on him and chain till he dies or is gimped.
 

BigRick

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 9, 2006
Messages
3,156
Location
Montreal, Canada AKA Real City brrrrrrrrapp!
Here is my list after playing some characters for a while. I will only include the characters that I have spent considerable time with in the list

High

Dedede
Marth
Lucas
Pit
Luigi
Diddy Kong

Middle

MetaKnight
Fox
Falco
Wolf
Olimar
Ike
Mario
Rob
Wario

Low

DK
Pokemon Trainer
Bowser
Link
Ice Climbers



Note: In each category low, mid, high; the characters are listed in no particular order.
how can you say that your low tiers are low tiers if you dont know if the other chars are better or worse?
 

Eyez

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 9, 2008
Messages
4
Pikachu shouldn't be anything other than top or high tier. Anyone who says otherwise clearly has no idea what they're talking about.
 

cultofrubik

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
452
Location
Orlando, Florida
lol Olimar is top tier.
Toon Link is awesome, but...

Marth is nowhere near as amazing as people suggested

Pikachu, and Diddy for some reason seem underrated

Wario's attacks are NOT that hard to hit with. Have you seen a good Wario? They can hit with fart and fsmash. Their hitboxes are ridiculous with high priority. He isn't Olimar, but he sure as heck ain't worse than a lot of characters.

Sonic gets outranged.

Badly outranged. Olimar is top tier.

Why no flower love?
 

Eyez

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 9, 2008
Messages
4
This is the best argument ever.

"I'm not gonna present any arguments on my own, but whoever disagrees with me is dumb lawl".
Basically. Some things are just obvious to people who know what they're talking about. You don't seem to be one of those people though.
 

Super_Nostalgic

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
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Care to give any further explanation on your stance than? Just saying someone doesn't know what they're talking about is pretty much a more polite way of saying "your dumb." I personally believe that pikachu will go up in the tier lists from melee. But top tier seems unlikely for him.

And yes, I did play pikachu a lot in melee, and I play him often in Brawl too, so I do have some knowledge to back my opinion.

Edit: Also, what's the point in all this anyway? Why do we have tier lists if so many people hate them so much? If I remember correctly, in order for a tier list to have any sort of relevance, both players must be 100% equal in skill. The problem with tier lists is that it makes people think a character is better than all others and effects their decision about the character they choose to play as when starting out. Not only that, but it seems that who ever plays the character that gets top tier seems unhappy because they'll see a flood of noobish players that play them just because they're top tier.
 

Eyez

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 9, 2008
Messages
4
Care to give any further explanation on your stance than? Just saying someone doesn't know what they're talking about is pretty much a more polite way of saying "your dumb." I personally believe that pikachu will go up in the tier lists from melee. But top tier seems unlikely for him.

And yes, I did play pikachu a lot in melee, and I play him often in Brawl too, so I do have some knowledge to back my opinion.
I don't believe he's top tier either, but high is a certainty. Most people seem to be leaving him out, or placing him in middle tier. He's way too good for middle tier.
 

shishi

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
3
Y'know, I never really understood tiers until a few years ago when some friends of mine who play fighters competitively were talking about them. Most of them played relatively low tier characters and still kicked *** which goes to show that as long as the game's relatively balanced, any character can excel with the right maneuvers.

My list's partially based on what I've read about each character and my first-hand experience with each character. I noticed a lot of people didn't factor in the overall ease of learning or using a character. A character that's harder to use has higher potential to mess up or backfire. Remember, this is an opinion. Don't have a cow if I ranked your character low. It doesn't mean they're a bad character by any means, I just don't think they're as practical as some of the higher tiers. A lower tier character just has some elements working against them but can still do excellent once mastered.

I did have a hard time figuring out where they were once I decided on what tier they should fall into so don't pay too much attention to the ranking within each tier because it could stand to be refined.

Top Tier
-Marth: Seems like general consensus he's at least high. He's got good launch moves, he's pretty fast, combos well, decent recovery, etc. Very well rounded and easy to pick up.

High Tier
-Wolf: Best of the SF characters. Better defense than Fox and Falco plus he is the heaviest of the three making him the hardest to KO.
-Snake: He's good in both one on one and group battles because of his weapons plus his CQC hits hard. I was knocking heavy weight characters under 100% off stage in one hit.
-Captain Falcon: OMG fast and hits harder than most of the speed characters.
-Toon Link: Basically a faster Link with more effective smash attacks.
-Peach: Nerfed yes, but still very good. She's got just about all the moves that made her what she was in Melee.
-Diddy Kong: Fast, good projectiles and good recovery.

Mid Tier
-Falco: Very similar to Wolf but easier to KO due to his lighter weight.
-King Dedede: Probably the best attack power, some of the best recovery and hard to KO.
-Pokemon Trainer: Good variety of moves and types. Charizard in particular has good attack power and is hard to KO.
-Mario: Very balanced and easy to pick up and play.
-Sonic: Very fast, fabulous recovery and pretty easy to control. Lacks a good KO move.
-Lucas: Also, high attack power and better recovery than Ness.
-Ness: High attack power and KO's better than Lucas.
-Sheik: Pretty sure was nerfed (or maybe it just seems that way with all these new characters) Still very fast and agile.
-Zero Suit Samus: Way more agile than with her suit and good range for attacks.
-Pit: GREAT recovery and good projectiles.
-Link: Really effective long range.
-Lucario: Hard to KO and good specials but weak physical attack power and requires a bit of a beating before really powered up.
-Jigglypuff: A solid defense for a lightweight and has good smash attacks but slow.
-Bowser: Slow but a heavy hitter.

Low Tier
-Fox: Nerfed in a few aspects but still fast with better close range hits. No dair spike.
-Metaknight: Great recovery but kind of low attack power plus relatively lightweight.
-Ike: A heavy hitter but SLOW.
-Luigi: Very similar to Mario but not quite as effective due to lag.
-Zelda: Had a good upgrade in attack power but still pretty weak and her recovery wasn't very good from what I remember.
-Samus: Decent attack power but slow and overall weaker with the suit if you can believe it.
-Ganondorf: Powerful but slow plus a steep learning curve.
-Pikachu: Good special attacks but weak physical attacks and lightweight.
-Mr. Game & Watch: REALLY light weight so easy to KO in theory but has good attack power/recovery to compensate.
-ROB: Good edge guarding but kind of slow and low attack power.
-Ice Climbers: Hard to learn and pretty weak defense/low attack power until you learn their advanced moves.
-Olimar: Good in one to one battles but can get tricky during group battles due to micro management of the Pikmin. Plus REALLY weak defense.
-Yoshi: Not very high attack power and lame defense but difficult to KO.
-Wario: A heavy hitter but with weak defense and low speed aside from his bike that can be used against him.

Bottom Tier
-Kirby: Difficult to pick up and light weight but has good edge guarding.
 

BDawgPHD

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
751
...shishi, your tier list had so many contradictions I almost passed out.

Kirby is definitely not the bottom of the tier list. He isn't the kirby of ssb64, but he's pretty beast. Most of your low tiered characters should definitely be high tier. Your list is just awful. Wait for a tourney, noob.
 

shishi

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
3
BDawg: It's an opinion for a reason. And I don't think any character is bad, just harder to work with. I probably would have ranked Olimar higher if the whole lining up Pikmin wasn't so random and distracting during group brawls. It's hard to tier a lot of the characters in the game because it gets a little hazy once you get to the low tiers since no one is bad. I just settled on Kirby because he's kind of slow, weak defense, has a couple hard moves but nothing crazy and I'm just not a big fan of playing him.
 

BDawgPHD

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
751
BDawg: It's an opinion for a reason. And I don't think any character is bad, just harder to work with. I probably would have ranked Olimar higher if the whole lining up Pikmin wasn't so random and distracting during group brawls. It's hard to tier a lot of the characters in the game because it gets a little hazy once you get to the low tiers since no one is bad. I just settled on Kirby because he's kind of slow, weak defense, has a couple hard moves but nothing crazy and I'm just not a big fan of playing him.
Fox is hard to use in melee, but he's the best character, and sheik is easier to use, but lower on the tier than Fox. Also, Falcon is ridiculously hard to use, but he's high on the tier list.

But seriously, tiers are meant to represent how successful characters are in tournaments based on tournament outcomes. I don't think very many people here are fit to make tiers, if anyone, but that attempt at a tier list was just plain pathetic.

If you think you can post up a tier list, be prepared for criticism. If you're not, just don't post one.

On topic, why is everyone placing Meta Knight so low? It's not THAT hard to kill people with him, he has his ways to kill/gimp, and he combos very gayly.
 

chaos 9

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
63
i feel that diddy, pit, ike, and ddd will be up there. they all have broken techs and can contend with high tier chars.
 

BDawgPHD

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
751
I don't like using diddy, but I know he's good. Pit either. Dedede is such a pimp, he's top tier because he's always so happy...and he loves just chillin out ;)
 

LegendofLink

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
164
Location
Pennsylvania
The best thing about Brawl is that even though tiers still exist, the gap between top and bottom is far smaller than in Melee or 64. This explains why there hasn't been any true characters that seem to be dominating everyone else. Even characters that everyone says are low tier seem to be winning their fair share of matches.
 
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