Official BBR Tier List v5

[x After Dawn x]

get some standard deviations and proportion values for that tourney bro

anyone who's taken a statistics class knows where i'm going with this!

 

[TP]

how often do you normally have timeouts with 8 minutes? Did you have any matches that ended between the 8 and 9 minute mark?

This is the first tourney I've hosted. Our region doesn't get many timeouts to begin with, so it really should be tested somewhere else. I believe there were 2 games that went into the 9th minute.

 

[ShadowLink84]

When you get better the game does change.

You haven't learned to not suck so keep training bro.

So Metaknight is magically going to stop having a 3 frame start up on his Dtilt?
It magically becomes slower?
His planking ceases to have a mere 6 frames of vulnerability?
Dk magically ceases getting his *** ***** by DDD as soon as a grab is landed?

Oh wait my fault, you brought in skill into this right?
Okay, since skill changes the game, DDD's grab will never land on DK.
IC's can never grab a dorf and MK's broke *** planking is countered by Sonic.

At first I thought you wished to merely talk smack, but you're just dumb.

 

[san.]

The way you perceive moves/the game do change when your understanding of the game increases. Usually that is synonymous with a skill increase.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

The way you perceive moves/the game do change when your understanding of the game increases. Usually that is synonymous with a skill increase.

That said, there are only so many things that complete understanding can achieve. Some things don't get much more complicated than they are, and some issues never get resolved. We should keep pushing so that we can make it better with a greater knowledge of the game, but, let's be realistic--Some things just never change.

 

[Pierce7d]

That said, there are only so many things that complete understanding can achieve. Some things don't get much more complicated than they are, and some issues never get resolved. We should keep pushing so that we can make it better with a greater knowledge of the game, but, let's be realistic--Some things just never change.

Even still, I feel like the average player's understanding is lower than it should be.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Even still, I feel like the average player's understanding is lower than it should be.

Naturally, the average player does not invest nearly as much time as someone who plays competitively.
They won't exactly know the ins and outs of the game as well as effective strategies

The way you perceive moves/the game do change when your understanding of the game increases. Usually that is synonymous with a skill increase.

That depends on how you define the game.
If we look at it pure as it is in itself, SSBB, then no it isn't changing.
if we look at it from a player's point of view, from a competitive stand point, then yes the game does change as your skill/perceptions change.

Now hush you, can't a man troll in peace?

 

[san.]

@People above
Pretty much true, although my perceptions of different aspects of the game are constantly changing.

Spoiler

I'm fine with creative trolling that doesn't degenerate the topic at hand, but then that wouldn't really be trolling.

 

[Orion*]

The way you perceive moves/the game do change when your understanding of the game increases. Usually that is synonymous with a skill increase.

God I love you sometimes LOL

Even still, I feel like the average player's understanding is lower than it should be.

Im pretty sure Pierce was talking about competitive players since this is SWF....

@People above
Pretty much true, although my perceptions of different aspects of the game are constantly changing.

Same, but (assuming youre in the same boat as me) it's because I am constantly moving forward

 

[DMG]

Forwards? Psh, why limit yourself to 1 direction?

 

[ShadowLink84]

@People above
Pretty much true, although my perceptions of different aspects of the game are constantly changing.

Spoiler

I'm fine with creative trolling that doesn't degenerate the topic at hand, but then that wouldn't really be trolling.

It is when you're make dumb people continue arguing.
*nod nod*

For example, guys, Fox sucks, get over yourselves, especially the Fox mains.

 

[Orion*]

Forwards? Psh, why limit yourself to 1 direction?

I lol'ed

10char

 

[Chuee]

For example, guys, Fox sucks, get over yourselves, especially the Fox mains.

Sonic sucks.

 

[Espy Rose]

I don't think anyone's going to argue that, Chuee.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Sonic sucks.

Ur Doin It Wrong.

 

[Chuee]

I don't think anyone's going to argue that, Chuee.

From what I've seen of some of the people in this thread, they might.

 

[Steam]

Yoshi is disgusting

and he sucks too.

 

[Ripple]

This is the first tourney I've hosted. Our region doesn't get many timeouts to begin with, so it really should be tested somewhere else. I believe there were 2 games that went into the 9th minute.

1 was mine!

 

[Zajice]

Ganon sucks.

 

[san.]

Everyone Snake/Diddy and below sucks.


Speaking of sucking, what is up with Kirby?




.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

simple, Chudat quit.

 

[Chuee]

simple, Chudat quit.

inb4kirbydrops4spotsnextierlist

 

[Zajice]

Who's a controversial character right now? ZSS?

ZSS should rise 3 spots.

Now everybody prove me wrong.

 

[san.]

I think Ike is doing better than he was before, proving that his previously conceived toughest non-MK MUs (Falco, Olimar, DDD, Marth) seem to be less disadvantaged as previously believed.


Winning once may have been called a fluke/lucky, but now we are starting to see this happen with multiple Ike players.


ZSS is finally starting to see a wider range of high level players as the previously 'good' ZSS players reach the next level.


.

 

[x After Dawn x]

Next level zero suit samus maneuver.

epic brawl time.

 

[Steam]

I honestly don't understand why ZSS is worse than lucario yet GW is better. they should be reversed IMO... maybe move ZSS about D3 as well... maaaybe.

 

[Spelt]

inb4kirbydrops4spotsnextierlist

kirby should trade places with samus because samus probably won a tournament sometime in history somewhere and kirby has absolutely so rep.
at all.

 

[John12346]

Kirby

Spoiler

Bees 154
Y.b.M. 118
Bundtcake 110
Triple R 50
Poyo 33
George 16
lol. 11

Samus

Spoiler

Sago 147

Just sayin' lol

 

[Spelt]

john numbers keepin' it straight.

 

[John12346]

John Numbers prolly missin' the joke. D:

 

[Steam]

Wow...

Bees is the most successful kirby user in the US...

just wow...

 

[Spelt]

i said nobody uses kirby

 

[Bees!]

I am just as surprised as you are. I guess I should rep Kirby some more as well as ROB. Hmm Better start getting out there and stepping it up.

 

[Denti]

So Metaknight is magically going to stop having a 3 frame start up on his Dtilt?
It magically becomes slower?
His planking ceases to have a mere 6 frames of vulnerability?
Dk magically ceases getting his *** ***** by DDD as soon as a grab is landed?

Oh wait my fault, you brought in skill into this right?
Okay, since skill changes the game, DDD's grab will never land on DK.
IC's can never grab a dorf and MK's broke *** planking is countered by Sonic.

At first I thought you wished to merely talk smack, but you're just dumb.

Yes. The better people get, the more they discover, the more the game changes. If ics couldn't cg they would be kinda bad but the cg was discovered and the game changed. You probably can't see that since you're busy acting stupidly sarcastic while trying to be smart.

 

[Psychoace]

While both Squirtle and Wario get grab-release molested, Squirtle's aerials are generally better than Wario's for poking a character like Falcon (especially with shellshifts and shellstalls), and Squirtle has a nice ground game. I assure you that Squirtle's tilts will make grabbing him with Falcon very, very difficult.

I don't know why that's your reasoning for not fearing Ivysaur--Charizard is easier to gimp with Falcon than Ivysaur. Ivysaur has plenty of ways to keep Falcon on his toes, though Captain Falcon's speed in the air can be a problem. It's not as easy to combo Ivysaur as it is to combo Charizard, but you get more out of grabs (don't you get grab-release U-Air on Ivysaur?). I would say that Ivysaur probably edgeguards Falcon better than Charizard, because Charizard needs specific distances and timing to land stuff on Falcon, whereas Ivysaur just needs to D-Air offstage at some point, and ledge invincibility can give Ivysaur an easy N-Air spike.

As an aside, you will -never- get a Falcon Punch on a competent Pokémon Trainer. >_>

I'm aware the whole falcon punch on a competent player is never likely to happen but the change on a flat surface from one pokemon to another is enough time to land a falcon punch unless the person I play is just doing it wrong lol. We do get more off of grabs vs ivy, but yeah charizard can get linked by nairs and up airs and such due to his large *** and crap shield (maybe that's not the best wording). Overall it's still a developing matchup that's not really brought up much. I do like playing it though.

 

[x After Dawn x]

Yes. The better people get, the more they discover, the more the game changes. If ics couldn't cg they would be kinda bad but the cg was discovered and the game changed. You probably can't see that since you're busy acting stupidly sarcastic while trying to be smart.

And tell me what has been "discovered" in the past year of the metagame that has changed it in the slightest.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I'm aware the whole falcon punch on a competent player is never likely to happen but the change on a flat surface from one pokemon to another is enough time to land a falcon punch unless the person I play is just doing it wrong lol. We do get more off of grabs vs ivy, but yeah charizard can get linked by nairs and up airs and such due to his large *** and crap shield (maybe that's not the best wording). Overall it's still a developing matchup that's not really brought up much. I do like playing it though.

The thing is, though, expecting a PT player to switch normally while you're on the ground with more than enough time to punish is the equivalent of someone putting their controller down for two seconds. If they're switching, they either just got a KO, did a move to send you away (Ivysaur B-Throw, Squirtle/Charizard D-Throw, etc.), or Baton Passing.

Falcon's general pressure game doesn't work very well against Charizard because U-Smash is fantastic out-of-shield, Rock Smash screws up Falcon's ground game, moves with range get shield-grabbed, and Charizard's N-Air covers both sides. Charizard is really good at defending himself against Falcon.

I'm very skeptical about calling it even, or even very close to it. I play a lot of Falcon, myself, so, I like to think I'm not just talking out of my ***, either. *shrugs*

And tell me what has been "discovered" in the past year of the metagame that has changed it in the slightest.

Meta Knight can cancel his Shuttle Loop about halfway through the main animation, making it virtually unpunishable by most characters with that alone, and creating a really silly mix-up between when either the cut or the cancel will happen.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

EDIT: My mistake--Double post.

I wish more people played Pokémon Trainer. I still think he just needs a better user than myself.

 

[Bees!]

Hi Reflex!!!
We need to play again sometime!

 

[ShadowLink84]

Yes. The better people get, the more they discover, the more the game changes. If ics couldn't cg they would be kinda bad but the cg was discovered and the game changed. You probably can't see that since you're busy acting stupidly sarcastic while trying to be smart.

This is why you are dumb.
The CG was there to begin with, just like many of the locks that we "discovered", they were there already.
So no, the game iddn't change, your perception may have changed, but no, the game didn't change.

In other words, there is an ideal tierlist that details exactly how good the characters are, we merely haven' come to it. Does it exist? yes it does. Why? The game does not change.

You're trying to act like the discovery of these techniques has changed the game on a fundamental level when it really has not created any change at all.
The only thing that changes is perception. The game in itself does not change at all, and frankly, if one player cannot perform the IC CG, and the other can, it does not change anything between the two players if they both understand it in full.

So let us back track.

1. The game does not change you iidjit, only your perception.
2. A growth in one's skill is not directly correlated to the understanding of the game, otherwise, we'd have lots of Jason's running about, would we not?
3. Go away, you suck and you're smelly.

I'm aware the whole falcon punch on a competent player is never likely to happen but the change on a flat surface from one pokemon to another is enough time to land a falcon punch unless the person I play is just doing it wrong lol. We do get more off of grabs vs ivy, but yeah charizard can get linked by nairs and up airs and such due to his large *** and crap shield (maybe that's not the best wording). Overall it's still a developing matchup that's not really brought up much. I do like playing it though.

I've falcon punched NinjaLink and Will. It happens on MANY different stages too.
I think the last time I told Will he threatened to falcon Punch me in real life =(
Such a bitter man.