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Official BBR Matchup Chart v1.0: R.O.B.

Mister Eric

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I like how the rob MU is in the -:rob: category
 

8Bitman

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How come Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard aren't on there?

And I beg to differ with a majority of the choices.

It's your choice to care or not, but this is my take on the MU's.

:rob:

-3: :snake: :falco: :dedede:
-2: :metaknight: :olimar: :marth: :fox: :sheik: :zelda: :samus2: :toonlink: :pit:
-1: :pikachu2: :gw: :wario: :wolf: :mario2: :lucario: :kirby2: :yoshi2: :jigglypuff:
0: :diddy: :dk2: :peach: :zerosuitsamus: :ness2: :lucas: :link2: :luigi2: :ike: :squirtle: :ivysaur: :charizard: :sonic:
+1: :bowser2: :popo: :ganondorf:

Before you think I am crazy, I put alot of thought into this. I am not going to base entire MU's off of just what the characters can do to each other, but if both players are professionals, and either better than each other or at the same skill level.

I would put snake an falco at -99999 but I just put them as the first two because I find those MU's impossible. You can only win against a falco if they don't lazor camp (wihich everysingle one does) and you can only beat snake if you somehow gimp them all 3 times, which is rare, or they suiside at least once, and even then you have to play aggressive as hell just to stay ahead.

Also alot of MU's that you put in the negative's I have always found to be comfortable against. Like ZSS, and MK, I do very well against NickRiddle, THE BEST ZSS IN THE WORLD, and I have never fought one before, I can almost beat him and I have played him in one set. Also I always see you all doing very well against MK's, so him being the hardest is an overstatement.

And marth, zelda, shiek, and samus are some of the hardest MU's for R.O.B, have you ever fought a samus before? O_O_O_O_O their spam can basically win the match, before you can even appraoch you have more % than the samus. Same thing with toonlink and pit, they are some of the spammyest characters out there.

Sorry if it sounds like I am mad or angry about this, but I just really think the MU list you made for R.O.B is wrong. And I know that you all can agree with me for most of my choices. Don't judge the MU's that you haven't experienced before.
 

sneakytako

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How are oli and fox harder than snake Q.Q.

And lucario does not have an advantage on us. Neither does pikachu. The wolf MU is even.

And 8bitman, ur list is wack. We beat way more than just two chars lol.
 

8Bitman

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.................. We do beat more than 2 people, we beat 15 people, but you have to work for it......... Just because someone is at 0 doesn't instantly make the MU unwinnable. Sheesh...





Did I not just say to judge my MU list? O_-
 

8Bitman

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Tell me who, and why? Because after maining R.O.B since the Brawl came out I have fought alot of people, and dealt with every MU. O___o
 

sneakytako

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Ok let me give you some examples:

Ike- We beat ike about 6:4. He might be able to give us problems on the stage, but if we can get him off the stage, his entire game falls apart. He has no options after he grabs the ledge that we cannot punish with three simple moves: gyro, shield, ftilt. Not to mention we have so many great CPs while he has so few.

Link: See above.

Jigglypuff: This MU is really, really bad for jiggs. Not only can we just run away and camp, but has no approach that beats simple nair/bair spam. Our long disjoints are simply too much for her to handle, which is one of the reasons why she hates the marth MU just as much.

Samus: This MU is tricky for us, but once you learn how to deal with zair spam it's quite easy to approach with shield. Her tether grab gives us plenty of time to punish, making it ideal to approach with shield. Once you understand her primary KO moves (Nair, Dtilt, Dsmash, Utilt) we can make it extremely difficult to land KO moves on us. Out camp her and out survive her. 55:45 ROB.

Ness: This is another MU we win slightly, but not for the reasons above. This MU we win because ness's recovery is so atrocious. Simply stay above ness while he recovers and avoid uair, you can literally gimp ness without hitting him. Or you can cancel his up-b by aiming at the orb, along with a myriad of other choices to gimp him. 55:45 ROB.

Lucas: This MU is hilarious. Lucas has very scary KO power, but no real means of setting it up besides the infamous tyr combo. Which means what they're most likely going so spam is dair. Get a read and upsmash him and watch him wither away. 60:40 ROB.

There are alot of MU that I disagree with on your chart, but the main problem I'm seeing is that you underestimate your own char. I find your lack of faith disturbing lol.
 

Zwarm

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Fun fact, if the Lucas is recovering using PKT2, you can spike him out of it if you time it right. :)

I assume the same for Ness, but I play against Lucas a lot more than I do Ness so I'm not 100% sure about it.
 

Zwarm

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Yeah, that's mostly why I don't know, haha. I used to play Dajayman's Ness pretty frequently, but he plays Toon Link now. I was always too afraid to risk it, since there was usually money on the line when I played him.
 

8Bitman

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Well for my MU list putting them at 0 doesn't nessisarily mean that the MU is harder, I just interpret that +1 is a MU we don't have to TRY on. I have never had to try against a bowser, and IC.

Also idk about you but the TL and pit MU's are hard as hell for me. It again involves the spam. Which is why I put samus so high.

I don't have as much faith for R.O.B as many of you do, but I am not going to think R.O.B to be the best without reason. We have to work harder than most characters.

I am sorry for this inconvenience but I just question the initial MU list in this thread.

There is alot to talk about with the R.O.B MU's but I guess we all have our strengths and weaknesses when it comes to specific MU's.
 

8Bitman

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You can but Ness hits a lot harder than Lucas, with no chance to SDI out. I'm usually too scared to try lol.
I know I always see people pull it off in CV's, but I never test the waters with that, it's hard to read the timing. O__o

And sorry but what is SDI? I hate Ness's Up-B it is TOO strong, it's like pikachu's D-B, it kills at such a low %, if you are kinda close to the edge. T_T






EDIT: THAT'S WHO I FORGOT!!! Thanks.
 

Zwarm

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-4 to +4

-4 being ROB 0-100ish
-3 being ROB 20-80ish
-2 being ROB 30-70ish
-1 being ROB 40-60ish
0 being even

I think you can guess the rest. I say ish, because +1 can be seen as only 55:45, not as far as 60:40. That sorta thing.
 

sneakytako

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I honestly think that the TL mu is even, his projectile spam is aggravating but TL has no reliable ways to force stuff on us besides shield pressure. Learn to tilt shield and shield later to conserve shield and the MU changes imo.

Ok and I HAVE to say this. The marth MU is even. The only reason why you think the marth MU is totally in his favor is because your playing to his strengths. ROB has excellent spacing, but marth has even better spacing. If you try to out space marth, you will lose. But on the flip side, we edgeguard marth solidly. If you play the edgeguard game more than the spacing game, you win this MU. You need to minimize his strengths while capitalizing on your own. OS would be ashamed 8bitman.
 

Mister Eric

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I honestly think that the TL mu is even, his projectile spam is aggravating but TL has no reliable ways to force stuff on us besides shield pressure. Learn to tilt shield and shield later to conserve shield and the MU changes imo.

Ok and I HAVE to say this. The marth MU is even. The only reason why you think the marth MU is totally in his favor is because your playing to his strengths. ROB has excellent spacing, but marth has even better spacing. If you try to out space marth, you will lose. But on the flip side, we edgeguard marth solidly. If you play the edgeguard game more than the spacing game, you win this MU. You need to minimize his strengths while capitalizing on your own. OS would be ashamed 8bitman.
With Marth, if played smart enough, he doesn't have to take early deaths. He doesn't have to be gimped. If he played the MU like ROB plays D3 but in reverse (instead of having his back towards the shorter end of the stage, the Marth should space himself with his back towards the longer end of the stage) and if he is mobile enough, which he can be, then he feels near impossible to get off the stage...{sowwie for the run-on sentence.}
But yeah...at worst, it's only -1. At best...I feel it's even.


tl;dr
beep
 

Ussi

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Ok let me give you some examples:

Ike- We beat ike about 6:4. He might be able to give us problems on the stage, but if we can get him off the stage, his entire game falls apart. He has no options after he grabs the ledge that we cannot punish with three simple moves: gyro, shield, ftilt. Not to mention we have so many great CPs while he has so few.
you know... how do you plan to get Ike off stage if he gives you problems on stage.

Ike has a strong planking game on BF and SV due to slants on the ledge (Two most common played stages), even so, its not impossible to get back onto the stage.

Various great CPs? Like what? Dare say RC I will have fun with you.
 

8Bitman

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I honestly think that the TL mu is even, his projectile spam is aggravating but TL has no reliable ways to force stuff on us besides shield pressure. Learn to tilt shield and shield later to conserve shield and the MU changes imo.

Ok and I HAVE to say this. The marth MU is even. The only reason why you think the marth MU is totally in his favor is because your playing to his strengths. ROB has excellent spacing, but marth has even better spacing. If you try to out space marth, you will lose. But on the flip side, we edgeguard marth solidly. If you play the edgeguard game more than the spacing game, you win this MU. You need to minimize his strengths while capitalizing on your own. OS would be ashamed 8bitman.
That's the thing I always try to out space, and combo the Marth, but of course it never happens. The only way I can even do good against certain marth's is to Shield-Grab everything, and camp. BUT I hate that play style and I cannot adjust to it properly. And I hate dying at 70% from a tipper. O__o

I don't know how to play specific MU's right, I play all the same which is why I say I have so much trouble with the ones you all say are like a +4 for R.O.B (Exaggerating to make a point). I love getting up close whenever I can which is why I get screwed in the end. I know my **** with R.O.B but I need to know how to play MU's right.

Even then tell me how to win the Snake MU? Because my brother is one of the best Snakes in Florida......... And I win maybe 20% of the time.....

What is OS?
 

Zwarm

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you know... how do you plan to get Ike off stage if he gives you problems on stage.

Ike has a strong planking game on BF and SV due to slants on the ledge (Two most common played stages), even so, its not impossible to get back onto the stage.

Various great CPs? Like what? Dare say RC I will have fun with you.
I agree with this. I play Kirk and Meneil pretty often, and I've always felt it was even. Ike beats us on stage, like Sneaky said, but getting him offstage in a position where we can gimp him is hard to do.
 

sneakytako

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Ok, been busy with work. Here's what I got to say;

Ike - His spacing is better than ours, and he actually has a great approach game with his huge disjointed aerials and little lag after his nair/jab. The thing is, once we get in a situation where we are on the stage and he's on the ledge, we win unless ROB messes up. In my mind, it's the equivalent of IC's getting a grab. He losses that stock unless you either let him go or he pulls some Kprime magic lol. So what that means is that I will gladly eat 20-40% to get one ftlit/grab that puts us in the aforementioned situation because of the risk vs return. If he tries to space and camp, you hit him with projectiles. When he's forced to approach, find a way to get him off the stage while staying on yourself and you win that stock. Play patient and wait for your chance, and prioritize staying alive so you get more chances. 6:4 ROB imo.

ALSO edgegurad =/= gimp. I have a feeling people don't understand this. My thinking is that unless there is a large skill gap gimps almost never happen. But edgeguard can exist in every game, even if the opponent is better than you. It's not just about stealing his jumps and forcing the SD. It's about understanding that any char has the advantage when he's on the stage against a char that's not (with maybe the exception of falco vs plankers, especially with no LGL)

8bitman the reason I'm upset at you is because of this:

'Thread title - Official BBR ROB MU Chart

Blah blah blah
MU chart

Before you think I am crazy, I put alot of thought into this. I am not going to base entire MU's off of just what the characters can do to each other, but if both players are professionals, and either better than each other or at the same skill level.

wtf does this mean. This just sounds scrubby to begin with. The only 'pros' are really VVV, people who get sponsored to play. I'm not going to bad mouth VVV cause I love chibo, but there are people way better that I would doubt fall into the 'pro' category. Are you insinuating that you know just as much as the 'pros'? Are you saying that you understand how the best players think and how their character/MUs affects their mentalities? You just put some BS together to make your logic sound credible, it's nauseating imo.

I would put snake an falco at -99999 but I just put them as the first two because I find those MU's impossible. You can only win against a falco if they don't lazor camp (wihich everysingle one does) and you can only beat snake if you somehow gimp them all 3 times, which is rare, or they suiside at least once, and even then you have to play aggressive as hell just to stay ahead.

This also sounds terrible, but I'll forgive you this once because your just ignorant and don't know how to play these MUs. Falco/Snake are just better chars than us, as shown in the tier list, but that doesn't mean they don't have weaknesses, but I digress.

Also alot of MU's that you put in the negative's I have always found to be comfortable against. Like ZSS, and MK, I do very well against NickRiddle, THE BEST ZSS IN THE WORLD, and I have never fought one before, I can almost beat him and I have played him in one set. Also I always see you all doing very well against MK's, so him being the hardest is an overstatement.

Have you ever met anyone that's like 'Oh I only lost by one stock to so-and-so, I must be amazing'? I've seen this syndrome a lot. Now I wasn't there and I can't say anything for sure, but consider this possibility. Would Lance Armstrong bike with 100% effort against Betty White in a 10k race? Now this is probably overexaggerating and condescending but my point here is that sometimes good people play just above the level necessary to beat you, because there is such a thing as mental stamina. Even in locals good players will sandbag in early rounds just so they can let loose and really maintain their concentration for big games. Do you really think your as good as NR after playing ONE SET? Do you really think you know all these MU while never traveling outside your region?


And marth, zelda, shiek, and samus are some of the hardest MU's for R.O.B, have you ever fought a samus before? O_O_O_O_O their spam can basically win the match, before you can even appraoch you have more % than the samus. Same thing with toonlink and pit, they are some of the spammyest characters out there.

Again, anytime you use any words that end in -est without really knowing what your talking about makes you look arrogant and ignorant. Again condescending I know but I'm really just trying to help you out.

Sorry if it sounds like I am mad or angry about this, but I just really think the MU list you made for R.O.B is wrong. And I know that you all can agree with me for most of my choices. Don't judge the MU's that you haven't experienced before.

And this is where you really got me riled up. First you say 'I'm going to post a radical MU chart'. Then it's 'I know most of you will agree'. Then you question the credibility of anyone that disagrees. That just puts it way over the top.
TL DR: The main point is, this may become a thread where people who are new/don't really know ROB may roam and try to learn about ROB. This kind of misinformation is unacceptable and should be stopped ASAP. I'm down with discussing and arguing any MU I know. But posting a BS list and saying that it's amazing make me disgusted at the thought of what lies new ROBs might have to unlearn. I know that I'm totally ripping on you 8bitman but I assure you that's only a side effect to what I'm really trying to accomplish, or rather prevent.

PS- OS, like the Original ROB of the MW. His main goal was to teach people not to just to play, but to always seek an advantage and prevent your opponent from capitalizing on theirs. Watch his vids and see what I'm talking about.
 

8Bitman

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Well I find all of that "ripping" was meant more to defend yourself rather than constructive criticism. It was pointless.

I am not "new" with R.O.B and that was harsh of you to assume that. Also I originally posted that it was my opinion. And I spoke my opinion's on each MU I questioned.

And stop talking like I was disrepecting other R.O.B's. I stated my opinion on the MU list, and you jump to conclusions. Like myself I have never even seen you in tournament results for big tournaments, or tournaments in general. So obviously you are all pointless bark, and no bite. Which brings me to the point of my OPINION.

The point of my MU list was experience not just words, we can sit here and argue all day about a MU, (the benefits and drawbacks) but when it comes down to actually dealing with that MU nothing exactly plays out the way it was intended to be.

And saying the OS would be ashamed, WTF is wrong with you? When you start PLACING in tourney's come back to me.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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Lucario's said it was 0, the R.O.B. panel said they lost the match-up so we let them have the -1, we didn't want to argue it when we had 19 discrepancies.

To clarify that one for you guys.
 

Zwarm

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Well seeing how I'm like, 0-10 against Lucarios in tournament, I think it's not even. :p The one time I actually beat Scythe's Lucario was with D3, and he went MK and beat me anyway, so nyeh.

inb4someonesaysI'mbad :)
 

stingers

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i dunno lucario might win. i need to play a good one.
i need to play a 'good one' of every char
=[
 

CT Chia

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i rly think lucario wins
just think about it
rob is known for his lack of kill options/power
lucario is AMAZING when he's at high percent
simple as that

not to mention his fsmash outranges every ground option we have
and he can edgeguard us very well
i think it's a -2 matchup for rob and stick by that
 

Zwarm

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Pretty much what Chibo said, only I think it's a little better than -2. Yes, ROB can't kill, but he has a good keep away/spacing game when needed. Every time I play Lucarios, it always ends up getting close to a time out, because of how careful I need to play to avoid all of his nonsense. If we can get him off the ledge, ROB is very good at gimping/edgeguarding, and Lucario's recovery is very easily read and punished, which nets us earlier kills.

The negatives in the MU Chibo mentioned outweigh the positives we have, but not by much. I'd say -1.
 

8Bitman

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Seems like Chibo has had some bad experiences with Lucario.

Honestly I think it's even but more toward R.O.B having the advantage.
Although we can't kill that fast and we rack up % making Lucario stronger, the only thing Lucario has on us is his Fsmash.

Plus Lucario is easy to combo. He floats in the air with us so we can Fair combo the hell out of him. =3
 
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