Official Official Updated Melee Panel Tier List and Community Voted Results

[-ACE-]

This is smashboards, correct?

Correct. He's saying meta knight isn't in melee lol

 

[reobebo]

This is smashboards, correct?

Yes, but this is tier list for Melee.

 

[sadweather]

This is smashboards, correct?

omg this guys so funny i want to be like him

 

[Modesty]

I don't see Meta Knight at god tier wtf

Le epic troll my friend XD

 

[Riddix]

Psh Falco and Fox should be same tier. It's such a close match up.

 

[sadweather]

Psh Falco and Fox should be same tier. It's such a close match up.

the general idea is that yes, although fox and falco are very close, almost everyone agrees that fox is a bit better, so everyone voted fox at first. so then fox is so ahead of falco since everyone put fox at first.

 

[reobebo]

Psh Falco and Fox should be same tier. It's such a close match up.

I think Fox has a better recovery than Falco does. Even though they look very similar.

 

[sadweather]

I think Fox has a better recovery than Falco does. Even though they look very similar.

Fox is definitely better than falco. Not only is his recovery much better, but he also has a lot more ground speed as well.

 

[Riddix]

the general idea is that yes, although fox and falco are very close, almost everyone agrees that fox is a bit better, so everyone voted fox at first. so then fox is so ahead of falco since everyone put fox at first.

Yea but not enough to give fox another tier.. and falco has so many brutal options against fox, also i think falco's recovery has a lot more creative options than fox's.

 

[Riddix]

Fox is definitely better than falco. Not only is his recovery much better, but he also has a lot more ground speed as well.

Sure, but he lacks when it comes to his projectile that is literally only used for racking up some extra damage to where falcos laser works as a way to kite zone and confirm into combos. That gives falco a huge edge on fox and any opponents he faces.

 

[-ACE-]

Fox does significantly better vs...
Sheik
Puff
Peach
Climbers
Ganon

The matchups where falco does better than fox are only by a small amount imo (top level). The matchup spread is the main issue.

 

[Riddix]

Fox does significantly better vs...
Sheik
Puff
Peach
Climbers
Ganon

The matchups where falco does better than fox are only by a small amount imo (top level). The matchup spread is the main issue.

That makes sense, I was kind of wondering what actually puts him into the new tier. Considering the matchup spread i can understand the next tier.

 

[Pruben]

Amazing list. One mistake tho: Kirby isn't bottom tier. He's SSSSS Tier.

 

[Spak]

Amazing list. One mistake tho: Kirby isn't bottom tier. He's SSSSS Tier.

I agree, if that's an abbreviation for SSSSSucky tier.

 

[MrFilibrawler]

Ah, so that is how they are ranked... I'm going to need to write that down somewhere.

 

[Barristocat]

My poor boy Roy...

 

[reobebo]

I find it funny with Roy where he is in the same tier class (Which is Class F) as in Melee and Smash 4. In Smash 4, he moved up just 1 rank, but still in F Class.

 

[Slyben]

looking good lets make young link s tier tho haha

 

[ThugNa$ty]

Good ****. I'll spare you whenever I meet up with you in bracket.

stop acting like you're good

 

[ThugNa$ty]

stop acting like you're good

yeah @Spazzy me and -ACE- gun *** u up at da rihhhht cahhhrlton

 

[ThugNa$ty]

I find it funny with Roy where he is in the same tier class (Which is Class F) as in Melee and Smash 4. In Smash 4, he moved up just 1 rank, but still in F Class.

I'm enthralled you think that's funny, whew. Had me nervous there for a minute

 

[WondrousMoose]

Dat triple post...

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Okay, so I have been watching a lot of these big tournaments for the past several months and I think there is one significant thing that I would want to point out that I think will be even more apparent in the future.

This one is going to be a bit controversial, but I truly believe that Jigglypuff is the second best character in Super Smash Bros. Melee.

Now why do I say this? I used to think that Puff sucked and was like 6-7 on the tier list a while back, but lately with Hungrybox basically "defining the meta" as Tafokints puts it in his video, I'm really thinking that Puff is a lot better as a character than most people give her credit for. I think on a matchup-by-matchup basis, Puff is the second best character in the game, simply because she goes even or has advantageous matchups against everyone in the cast except for Fox, who is obviously still #1.


"Well Falco has mostly even matchups too, and almost none that he is losing, so why is he below Puff?"

I put Falco lower simply because of his ability to survive as a character, and how on point and consistent you have to be in order to win matchups as Falco. Take Falco v Puff for example. It's definitely do-able, as showcased by PPMD and Westballz, but it isn't consistent. More often than not if the Falco makes a mistake vs Puff, the Falco can just straight up die. This also applies to Fox as well, as even Mango and Armada admit that if you make one mistake vs Hungrybox, chances are you are going to die.

Sure, there are some areas that Puff is weaker in than compared to Falco, but I feel like overall as a character and the average performance of her by Hungrybox at nationals shows that she is incredibly strong. Her rest is a huge component that adds to her strength, and even with her not having the best survivability due to her falling speed and weight, unless you straight up kill her from a move, chances are she is going to be able to float back to the stage and reset things back to neutral. I feel like even with most of Puff's "even" matchups like Falco, Marth, Sheik, etc., they tend to be pretty hard for the player that isn't playing as Puff, and a lot of pressure is put on that player. Now, I'm not sure how much pressure is put on the Puff in those matchups, but I get the general feeling that they don't have as much to worry about as the opponent character does. Puff also has one of the best edgeguarding abilities in the game, where essentially if the opposing character gets sent off stage, it can be really hard for them to come back, with most instances of the opponent getting back are a result of the Puff making a mistake in edgeguarding.

"Now if she's such a good character, why aren't more people playing as her?"

This is probably because a lot of people don't want to play Melee the way that Jigglypuff makes it look like the game is played, when playing as her. When people think of Puff, I would assume they think of a slow and campy style that is not fun to play against. Even with that idea, I really feel like there aren't enough people that are truly tapping into the character's potential. Hungrybox is the only one right now that I see who is practically defining the Melee meta because of how optimized he is with Puff. That's insane to me. Prince Abu and Tekk are the next two Puffs that come below Hbox, but I believe they are only going to get better as time goes by.

I think another factor that goes into Puff being number 2 in Melee is her ease of use. She doesn't require a ton of techskill to be in top form with her, allowing you to be more mental with the game, and with the reduced tech window it is also much less likely you will SD with her compared to other characters.

I'd like to hear more opinions on this, and of course I like to hear what people have to say is they disagree.

 

[PJB]

While I don't agree that puff is the 2nd best character, I definitely share your opinion that she's underrated. In my opinion, she is the 4th best character behind Fox, Falco and Marth (in that order).

Puff really only has one losing matchup, and that's to fox, the nearly unanimous best character in the game. Her other matchups where she is considered to do poorly in are falco, Marth and possibly some lower tiered characters like Dr. Mario and young link. These lower tier issues can, for the most part, be ignored, because the likelihood of running into such a character at top level is extremely small, and even then, puff is at worst even vs these characters. Vs Marth and falco, puff theoretically loses, but in practice, hungrybox simply does not lose to these characters.

The only reason I think puff is NOT second on the tier list is due to her unfortunate fox matchup. Falco and Marth have, in my opinion, the only 2 even matchups with fox in the game, as well as being even against each other (and puff). This places them slightly higher for me, but all 4 of these characters (including fox at the top) make up my top 4.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

While I don't agree that puff is the 2nd best character, I definitely share your opinion that she's underrated. In my opinion, she is the 4th best character behind Fox, Falco and Marth (in that order).

Puff really only has one losing matchup, and that's to fox, the nearly unanimous best character in the game. Her other matchups where she is considered to do poorly in are falco, Marth and possibly some lower tiered characters like Dr. Mario and young link. These lower tier issues can, for the most part, be ignored, because the likelihood of running into such a character at top level is extremely small, and even then, puff is at worst even vs these characters. Vs Marth and falco, puff theoretically loses, but in practice, hungrybox simply does not lose to these characters.

The only reason I think puff is NOT second on the tier list is due to her unfortunate fox matchup. Falco and Marth have, in my opinion, the only 2 even matchups with fox in the game, as well as being even against each other (and puff). This places them slightly higher for me, but all 4 of these characters (including fox at the top) make up my top 4.

Yeah you hit the nail on the head on the tournament performance of Hungrybox against Falcos and Marths. For me to be convinced that Falco and Marth beat Puff, I need to see that happen consistently in tournament at a high level by more than just one person, preferably. For instance, if both M2K and PPMD were to beat Hungrybox with Marth at least 50% of the time after at least four sets, then I would definitely reconsider where to put Puff on my tier list. Same would apply if both PPMD and Westballz beat Hbox with Falco 50% of the time after at least four sets. And of course the same goes for Sheik and whatever other matchups that top players claim to be even with Puff.

Until I see sufficient evidence to support the claim, then I'm going to keep my opinions. I do like your reasoning though. It's good to hear what others think.

 

[PJB]

thanks for the feedback! Yeah to me tier lists are largely made by matchups, and in my opinion, the current matchup of puff vs. Marth or falco is at worst even for puff. This is not to say that it couldn't change in the future, but in the current state of the meta, it's hard to argue puff outright loses to either character.

 

[DeKu Skrub]

I just hope that one day, Kirby shoots from G tier to A-SS because of some newly discovered tech lol.

 

[XXXswagbuck11234xxx]

Roy is my boy, so he should be higher kay?

 

[reobebo]

Roy is my boy, so he should be higher kay?

If the win rate from other Roy players is high, than it could be rising. Also, Roy is different from Marth, so I don't know it he will be going up depending on his moves.

 

[SSG SAX GAMER]

I would put luigi and Yoshi above Doctor Mario.

 

[Uchihadark7]

If the win rate from other Roy players is high, than it could be rising. Also, Roy is different from Marth, so I don't know it he will be going up depending on his moves.

He has some decent matchups, but no one will play him over Marth. Marth is a lot safer, and Roy doesn't have any extra reward fro his risk.

 

[Get Low]

In my opinion, Icies are the best character. It's getting to the point where Icies players (at least the good ones) don't drop their wobbles, and I've also been noticing Icy mains creating a lot more setups for their wobbles. I know that tournament results don't even come close to supporting this claim (yet), but theoretically a character who wins the game simply by winning in neutral four times is the best character. And that goes without mentioning their wavedash speed, and the quickness and power of their actual moves.

 

[Uchihadark7]

In my opinion, Icies are the best character. It's getting to the point where Icies players (at least the good ones) don't drop their wobbles, and I've also been noticing Icy mains creating a lot more setups for their wobbles. I know that tournament results don't even come close to supporting this claim (yet), but theoretically a character who wins the game simply by winning in neutral four times is the best character. And that goes without mentioning their wavedash speed, and the quickness and power of their actual moves.

They're pretty good, but I don't know about best character.

 

[Get Low]

They're pretty good, but I don't know about best character.

I thought they were just "pretty good" until I saw Dizzkid's performance at Fight Pitt 6. Kid just blows through top players like it's nothing, and all he does is try to set up wobbles. It's hard to tell if he's actually as good as his opponent in most cases, but it doesn't even matter because of how good he is at one thing...setting up grabs.

 

[Uchihadark7]

I thought they were just "pretty good" until I saw Dizzkid's performance at Fight Pitt 6. Kid just blows through top players like it's nothing, and all he does is try to set up wobbles. It's hard to tell if he's actually as good as his opponent in most cases, but it doesn't even matter because of how good he is at one thing...setting up grabs.

I think they are definitely top 5, but IMO Wobbles at EVO or Nintendude at Genesis was a lot more impressive. Dizzkid is still good though.

 

[PJB]

The thing about ICs though is in certain matchups (most notably peach, but also fox and falcon among others) you could argue that killing nana is actually easier and more likely than the ICs getting the grab. And once this occurs, the zero to death threat is removed from the equation

 

[Z3RG]

I don't think Fox should have his own tier. Yeah, he's amazing, but not to the point where he needs his own tier.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Now why do I say this? I used to think that Puff sucked and was like 6-7 on the tier list a while back, but lately with Hungrybox basically "defining the meta" as Tafokints puts it in his video, I'm really thinking that Puff is a lot better as a character than most people give her credit for. I think on a matchup-by-matchup basis, Puff is the second best character in the game, simply because she goes even or has advantageous matchups against everyone in the cast except for Fox, who is obviously still #1.

This was a common argument around 2010 when Hbox was world #1. These sorts of opinions tend to occur whenever someone is winning a lot.

 

[Pookum Gamer]

This list is really great! I think Doc should be mid high, but that's all I can really argue about it. It's solid.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

This was a common argument around 2010 when Hbox was world #1. These sorts of opinions tend to occur whenever someone is winning a lot.

I'm not really basing it 100% off of Hungrybox's performance. He just adds evidence to how I feel about each of these matchups because he's doing really well, which in 2016 I imagine is a lot harder than back in 2010.