Official Official Updated Melee Panel Tier List and Community Voted Results

[FooltheFlames]

Yoshi has been bumped up over the years hasnt he?
And I love how both Links are above Roy and Kong~

 

[sadweather]

Yoshi has been bumped up over the years hasnt he?
And I love how both Links are above Roy and Kong~

Yeah, Young Link has got a good bit of showing, bumping him and Link up.

 

[reobebo]

Yeah, Young Link has got a good bit of showing, bumping him and Link up.

Thanks Axe, Chudat, SAUS, STRO, and Germ.

 

[Spak]

Thanks Axe, Chudat, SAUS, STRO, and Germ.

No mention of Armada?

 

[sadweather]

No mention of Armada?

lmao, guess he forgot, but yeah, there is a surprising amount of good link and young link players out there, good ****

 

[reobebo]

No mention of Armada?

Oh yeah. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[Melansjf]

I'm just chucking out an observation here.

Fox and Falco have no bad match ups, but Fox arguably has better matchups against more of the cast than Falco, I've heard that fox has three iffy match ups compared to Falco's five.
So Fox has a +2* "advantage" over Falco (though both apparently have no poor match ups).
But I've read, and witnessed Falco having an advantage over Fox in a one-on-one matchup. So are we judging by points for and against? Because in almost everything else in case the of a tie it's always decided by the head to head match.
Either way, it Fox and Falco should be either tied, or at least in the same tier.

(*Falco has the advantage on Fox, so it should be +1)

 

[-ACE-]

Fox wins 51/49 over falco imo. Debatable matchup.

 

[skyrider332]

The way I see it we could do this two ways,
1- break out the Tafo stats on every match ever recorded and stack them against each other.
2- let TAS versions of both characters just go at it and see who comes out on top.

 

[Spak]

The way I see it we could do this two ways,
1- break out the Tafo stats on every match ever recorded and stack them against each other.

This wouldn't very accurately reflect the current meta; maybe do Tafostats on the past year?

2- let TAS versions of both characters just go at it and see who comes out on top.

This is a bad idea; there's a lot of stuff that is not humanly impossible that could skew the results (such as TAS Falcon's movements being so fast that nobody could ever land a hit on him) and some tech that wouldn't be viable in a match would be viable in the TAS run (such as frame-perfect multishine shield pressure with Fox).

 

[KGill]

damn you fox

 

[Spazzy]

Okay first off, what the **** were you thinking having Fox at the top? Above falco? We all ****ing know that falco is easily number #2 maybe number one on the tier list. Fox's lasers can't stun and have no autocombos so gg on that arguement.

Second off, pika above samus? Samus even considered C tier? Wow, I have not lost a game as Samus in my entire life just because of how broken she is. Who else can CC at like 150%?

This tier list is actually so fraudulent I can't believe ANYONE believes this bull****. Have fun being wrongly educated you idiots.

 

[Spak]

Okay first off, what the **** were you thinking having Fox at the top? Above falco? We all ****ing know that falco is easily number #2 maybe number one on the tier list. Fox's lasers can't stun and have no autocombos so gg on that arguement.

Second off, pika above samus? Samus even considered C tier? Wow, I have not lost a game as Samus in my entire life just because of how broken she is. Who else can CC at like 150%?

This tier list is actually so fraudulent I can't believe ANYONE believes this bull****. Have fun being wrongly educated you idiots.

Troll game 2 gud.

 

[Spazzy]

Troll game 2 gud.

Are you kidding me? Trolling? Do you actually think I'm not being serious about this? If you want to have the mentality that fox is still viable in this meta game where literally every character is evolved around beating fox, then have fun with that. I'll see you drown in pools while I'm getting top 3 at least at Evo with Samus.

Edit: Granted I can beat Hugs or Plup in the ditto.

 

[-ACE-]

Quite spazzy.

 

[Spazzy]

Quite spazzy.

Thank god someone agreed with me on this opinion. You're probably the most logical person on this website and I can't believe that any other idiot would think otherwise.

 

[Spak]

Are you kidding me? Trolling? Do you actually think I'm not being serious about this? If you want to have the mentality that fox is still viable in this meta game where literally every character is evolved around beating fox, then have fun with that. I'll see you drown in pools while I'm getting top 3 at least at Evo with Samus.

Edit: Granted I can beat Hugs or Plup in the ditto.

I kinda assumed you were joking. Fox has the strongest uncharged U-Smash in the game (great for killing Samus off of the top), U-throw Uair is garenteed on a good amount of the cast at varying percents, Fox has a frame 1 move that spikes the opponent (I've been gimped at 0% by screwing up an edgeguard against Fox,) his laser's fire rate allows him to build percent very fast if his opponent is slow, he can combo the opponent very well and has a vast number of options at any given time, and he has pretty fast movement. He's very technically demanding, but he's the best character in the game. Falco's a close number two, but neither of them have any unfavorable MUs against the rest of the cast.

Also, if you've never lost a game with Samus, you either live in a garbage region or you haven't ever gone to a tourney lol.

EDIT: And if you're actually trolling (I still think you are based on your overstatement about never losing with Samus and "number #2" in your OP,) congrats, you got me.

 

[Spazzy]

I kinda assumed you were joking. Fox has the strongest uncharged U-Smash in the game (great for killing Samus off of the top), U-throw Uair is garenteed on a good amount of the cast at varying percents, Fox has a frame 1 move that spikes the opponent (I've been gimped at 0% by screwing up an edgeguard against Fox,) his laser's fire rate allows him to build percent very fast if his opponent is slow, he can combo the opponent very well and has a vast number of options at any given time, and he has pretty fast movement. He's very technically demanding, but he's the best character in the game. Falco's a close number two, but neither of them have any unfavorable MUs against the rest of the cast.

Also, if you've never lost a game with Samus, you either live in a garbage region or you haven't ever gone to a tourney lol.

EDIT: And if you're actually trolling (I still think you are based on your overstatement about never losing with Samus and "number #2" in your OP,) congrats, you got me.

Garbage region? Are you kidding me? I live in the most advance region ever. We are constantly improving the meta game every single day of the week. We do extensive research on every one of Samus's matchups and it's been mathematically and categorically proven that Samus just can not lose to anyone. I think you live in the garbage region since you still believe the easiest combo'd character still has a shot at winning even a regional. Rethink your life, then talk to me when you're even close to my level.

 

[Spak]

Garbage region? Are you kidding me? I live in the most advance region ever. We are constantly improving the meta game every single day of the week. We do extensive research on every one of Samus's matchups and it's been mathematically and categorically proven that Samus just can not lose to anyone. I think you live in the garbage region since you still believe the easiest combo'd character still has a shot at winning even a regional. Rethink your life, then talk to me when you're even close to my level.

Troll game 2 gud.

 

[Comet7]

spazzy beat leffen 5-0. i wouldn't argue with him, that'd be your b.

 

[Spazzy]

spazzy beat leffen 5-0. i wouldn't argue with him, that'd be your b.

Good ****. I'll spare you whenever I meet up with you in bracket.

 

[Modesty]

Fox wins 51/49 over falco imo. Debatable matchup.

I think Falco wins til you get to the highest level of play, then Fox wins comfortably.

 

[-ACE-]

I think Falco wins til you get to the highest level of play, then Fox wins comfortably.

When discussing matchups, top level play is implied. I agree though.

 

[herbmaster%]

I tried forming my own list based on:
Neutral/Punish/Recovery
1.S+/S+/S
2.S-/S/A-
3.S/S+/S-
4.A+/S/S+
5.A/S/S
6.A/S/A+
7.Wobbling/Wobbling/B
8.A-/S/S
9.A-/A-/S
10.A+/S/B+
11.A/A/B-
12.A/A/B-
13. A-/A+/C+
14.A-,S-(floaties)/B/ A
15.B+/A/B
16.B+/A/C+
17.B+,A+(floaties)/B-/C+
18.B/A/A+
19.B/A-/C+
20.B-/A/C-
21.B+/B+/C-
22.C/B/C+
23.C/B-/C
24.C/B/D
25.D/B/D
26.D/D/C
Please tell me what you think.

 

[sadweather]

I tried forming my own list based on:
Neutral/Punish/Recovery
1.S+/S+/S
2.S-/S/A-
3.S/S+/S-
4.A+/S/S+
5.A/S/S+
6.A/S/A+
7.Wobbling/Wobbling/B
8.A-/S/S+
9.A-/A-/S+
10.A+/S/B+
11.A/A/B-
12.A/A/B-
13. A-/A+/C+
14.A-,S-(floaties)/B/ A
15.A-/A/B
16.B+/A/C+
17.B+,A+(floaties)/B-/C+
18.B/A/A+
19.B/A-/C+
20.B-/A/C-
21.B+/B+/C-
22.C/B/C+
23.C/B-/C
24.C/B/D
25.D/B/D
26.D/D/C
Please tell me what you think.

jesus get down from there pichu, youre gonna hurt yourself!

 

[Modesty]

I tried forming my own list based on:
Neutral/Punish/Recovery
1.S+/S+/S
2.S-/S/A-
3.S/S+/S-
4.A+/S/S+
5.A/S/S+
6.A/S/A+
7.Wobbling/Wobbling/B
8.A-/S/S+
9.A-/A-/S+
10.A+/S/B+
11.A/A/B-
12.A/A/B-
13. A-/A+/C+
14.A-,S-(floaties)/B/ A
15.A-/A/B
16.B+/A/C+
17.B+,A+(floaties)/B-/C+
18.B/A/A+
19.B/A-/C+
20.B-/A/C-
21.B+/B+/C-
22.C/B/C+
23.C/B-/C
24.C/B/D
25.D/B/D
26.D/D/C
Please tell me what you think.

I don't think you can justify Pikachu over Falcon. Falcon can contend in neutral with just about anyone, while Pikachu has some notable problems with Sheik and Peach, and big problems with Icies. I honestly think Pikachu should be behind Samus too.

 

[herbmaster%]

it may be naivity, but I've always felt that in perfect hands pikachu has the ground speed to deal with any character.

 

[Spak]

it may be naivity, but I've always felt that in perfect hands pikachu has the ground speed to deal with any character.

Falcon has the fastest ground speed in the game, though.

 

[reobebo]

Surprisingly Young Link/Link has the same Up-Bs, but they are different, Young Link's Up-B is multiple hits while Link's Up-B is a finisher (For those who didn't know).

P.S. I miss the old voice actor for Link and Fox.

 

[-ACE-]

Falcon has the fastest ground speed in the game, though.

Luigi wavedash.

 

[reobebo]

Luigi wavedash.

Samus wavedash.

 

[-ACE-]

Samus wavedash.

Useful wavedash.

 

[Spak]

Samus wavedash.

Super Wavedash.

 

[Comet7]

first frames of sheik's dash attack

 

[Modesty]

Falcon has the fastest ground speed in the game, though.

This. Plus Falcon just has better neutral tools. Pikachu's biggest issue is lack of range. Pikachu is like a poor man's fox in a lot of aspects, but lacks most of the tools that makes fox so good. Against Sheik or Ice Climbers, you just don't have the options. You can't just rely on your speed because one grab can mean death.

 

[herbmaster%]

I can concede to that, except that a grab from sheik doesn't always mean death

 

[Spak]

I can concede to that, except that a grab from sheik doesn't always mean death

It means either death or enough percent that you'll be dead in the next couple of hits after the grab:

Pikachu is similar.

I can regrab the DI away at like 0-5 or whatever but the whole slight DI thing is really trippy after like 20 if they have good jump timing and I don't really practice it so I don't have the awesome super **** CG skills. So I just U-tilt or whatever into a big combo if they DI that way. And it's always seemed about equally effective anyway. Since the CG only really works to like 50 or 60 on Pikachu anyway I like the combo more since it often does more damage amazingly lolol.

Even then it's not like Pikachu can keep pace with 40-50% throw combos plus Sheik's ridiculous KO power. Learn to U-smash the slight DI at like 70 and Pikachu becomes incredibly fluffy.

 

[Skedoom]

I don't see Meta Knight at god tier wtf

 

[reobebo]

I don't see Meta Knight at god tier wtf

I know you're joking, but you're in the wrong forum.

 

[Skedoom]

I know you're joking, but you're in the wrong forum.

This is smashboards, correct?