Offensive Uses of Tornado?

[redbeanjelly]

I've been thinking of picking up Mario lately, so I've been in the lab with him for a little bit. I'm loving his combo game, especially his Dair and how much damage it racks up. I saw on the frame data thread that the SDI multiplier for his Dair is slightly smaller than most of his move: 0.75x compared to 1x. I assume this means that it's more difficult to SDI than a typical move (please correct me if that's mistaken).

Anyway, I was wondering if I'm crazy to think that Tornado has some offensive potential. Its SDI multiplier is 1x, so will any competent player just smash DI out of it if I try to use it? I've been experimenting with Tornado-ing off of platforms and edges to position better, and maybe covering tech options as well. What do you guys think - is there any potential in this idea, or should I just put it to rest?

 

[Tha_Shogun_12]

I've only used Mario Tornado offensively to close a gap for dash dancers and other opponents attempt to space when I still have aerial momentum from my short hop. Other than that I haven't noticed it giving anything other than tech chase options on higher percentages with heavier characters on hit.

I also haven't seen competent players smash DI out of it and I've taken my Mario to GF and Winners/Losers finals a few times so your idea may possibly work.

If you can, post a video of you using it with the idea you shooting for, I'd love to see it.

 

[redbeanjelly]

I've only used Mario Tornado offensively to close a gap for dash dancers and other opponents attempt to space when I still have aerial momentum from my short hop. Other than that I haven't noticed it giving anything other than tech chase options on higher percentages with heavier characters on hit.

I also haven't seen competent players smash DI out of it and I've taken my Mario to GF and Winners/Losers finals a few times so your idea may possibly work.

If you can, post a video of you using it with the idea you shooting for, I'd love to see it.

Those are some good ideas too! Thanks bro, I'll try and see if I can get a recording together.

 

[Loyal2NES]

Mario's Tornado is hard (impossible?) to SDI out of because it hits people toward the center. That isn't the issue, though. Against a grounded opponent, people can just DI down, crouch-cancel, and shield the rest of the hits mid-move, and even grab you out of the last hit depending on how fast their grab is. It's super unsafe.

 

[BlackDr.Mario]

Ive been a Mario Main for years in every Smash Game there is. In PM, the Tornado has many uses, some unsafe and some almost unfair.

For earlier percents, I like D-Throw -> Dair -> Tornado. Its a small combo string that its a tad hard to get out of, even with SDI from aerial mobility to move with the opponent and the slides from the Tornado. Also with the KB being low but the damage being near 30-40 afterwards, it leads into Uair nicely if you can recognize the DI

For higher percents, its surprisingly decent ad a waveland move from the ledge. Average priority so a non charged FSmash will clank. Also put you in grab range, however thats where its unsafe so its not something that you can use often, but more as a surprise to those who arent ready.

With it being CC-able, its possible to catch them in over extended Dash Dance.

Its overall purpose is a trap move or a surprise move. Its not bad, but super situational.

 

[Gnarkill Evan]

Newer player here.... Just looking for some help with some terms in your post... I know what is meant by DI but what do you mean by SDI and as a Mario player I am not aware of the tornado tho I might not and just not call the move by a name. Thank you for any help

 

[redbeanjelly]

Newer player here.... Just looking for some help with some terms in your post... I know what is meant by DI but what do you mean by SDI and as a Mario player I am not aware of the tornado tho I might not and just not call the move by a name. Thank you for any help

Sure man no problem. So SDI stands for Smash DI, and it's when you move your character's position during the frames of hitlag when you're being hit by an attack. It generally works better for multi-hitting moves, because each hit gives its own hitlag and thus you have more frames of hitlag to shift your character's body away from the attack. Here's more info on it: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Smash_directional_influence

And yeah, Mario's downB is called the Mario Tornado.

 

[Gnarkill Evan]

Sure man no problem. So SDI stands for Smash DI, and it's when you move your character's position during the frames of hitlag when you're being hit by an attack. It generally works better for multi-hitting moves, because each hit gives its own hitlag and thus you have more frames of hitlag to shift your character's body away from the attack. Here's more info on it: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Smash_directional_influence

And yeah, Mario's downB is called the Mario Tornado.

Thanks Mate! Cheers!

 

[Tha_Shogun_12]

So I think I may have found the best use for this ability.

The most recent tournament I was in (last week) I went Mario about 92% of all my matches and I got alot of useful info, one being that Mario tornado DEMOLISHES dash dancers who are unexpecting it with a full dash SH into Mario tornado.

During the Pivot the opponent cannot block so they ate the mario tornado everytime, leading to a few tech chase options on platforms if the opponent missed the tech. If they did tech, they were still at frame disadvantage. If they DI'd wrong or was a fast faller they could catch a UTilt or DTilt at certain percentages (around 40~50%ish if I remember correctly).

I was amazed at the succession at this move and when I was in that area where if I read using the wrong fireball option (Full hop, Short Hop, standing) that this move ate through 95% of their spacing options and reaction/hard reads.

 

[Hawkedge]

Glad to see someone else has found a use for the Down-B. I agree on using it against dash-dancers, as an approach move, coupled with spaced pills, nair, and grab, you cover most characters out-of-shield options. Smart samus' will obviously make use of Up-B OOS while other characters will opt for their own short start-up out-of-shield options, such as Mario & Luigi's freshly nair'd legs, Fox & Falco's Shines, Zelda's neutral-B, some character's grabs, and the like. Not a lot of situations where it'll be the best options, though sometimes you'll find it catches your opponent off guard enough that they start expecting it leading to mind games.