No Tornadoes/Wind as optional rules

firo

Smash Ace
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#1
I figured I'd bring up another topic we can talk about.

If it was convenient to enable the cheats, should a tournament host be allowed to enforce the rule that tornadoes and/or wind should be turned off during a tournament? What if instead both players agree to it? I think an argument can be made for the elimination of tornadoes, possibly wind as well. If random variables can be removed from the game, is there any benefit of keeping them in? What do you think?
 
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#2
I think this is similar to the no-tripping hack for Brawl, which is currently disallowed. I'm inclined to say that any game-altering hacks should be banned.
 
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#3
I'm in support of this so long as it's TO-decided. Tornadoes can really mess with players, and worse, aggravate them so it throws off their rhythm. Wind is in the same boat, but I'm less inclined to believe it can really cause problems.
 
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#5
Even though there are strong arguments that these elements are detrimental, people have to acknowledge that they are part of the stages. Removing tornadoes may be disadvantageous to players who are particularly good at comboing with them. They also probably hurt Pikachu and DK more for self-explanatory reasons. Even if two players agree to it, it is likely that one player is benefiting more than the other. For these reasons I really disagree with hacks being legal under any circumstances.
 

dandan

Smash Lord
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#6
i think separating the online from console rules my be a bit off, and we should avoid rules that do so (as no TO will get gameshark to stop tornadoes in normal games).
 

King Funk

Int. Croc. Alligator
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#7
I don't think there's anything wrong with using those codes if both players agree on it. The way I see it, they're affected equally by the removal of random elements. Of course, you can always find ways to argue that they aren't. But you can't deny players the right to get rid of them because they will have both agreed on it, for the sole purpose of having more fun. Just like some players in Melee in tourney matches sometimes agree to play on Pokéfloats even though it's a banned stage.

Don't enforce it, but let players decide whether they want it or not.

HOWEVER, if the host player deactivates tornados/wind without warning his opponent beforehand, the opponent should have the right to complain about it.
 
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#8
to clarify: hyrule with tornado and hyrule without tornado should both be pickable stages, provided that you can easily access hyrule without tornado

it doesn't have anything to do with fairness - as long as both versions of the stage are "good enough" for competitive play then it's fine
 
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#9
i've played console matches with the tornados and music off

what sort of addendum should we put in then, something like

If both players agree, the stage hazards on Hyrule Castle and Dreamland may be turned off via Gameshark.
 

King Funk

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#11
i've played console matches with the tornados and music off

what sort of addendum should we put in then, something like

If both players agree, the stage hazards on Hyrule Castle and Dreamland may be turned off via Gameshark.
I'm also all for those hazards to be turned off, but some people will never be. So I think that rule AA proposed is the best we can do.
 
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#14
what does the no tripping hack do and how hard is it to implement?

you guys know that in PC games it's very common for "mods" to become popular (e.g. counterstrike)? Historically this only would happen in PC games because it's easy to mod those and difficult to mod console games.
 
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#15
It stops tripping, a random element that can change the game.

Dunno how hard it is to implement, but it doesn't require anything obscure iirc

I'll update the posted ruleset directly if we come to an agreement.
 

King Funk

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#18
Question: For those of you who support the use of Gameshark to make these changes, do you support the no-tripping hack in Brawl?
I definitely support the no-tripping in Brawl. It's one of the easiest codes ever to put into the game. The problem is that not everyone has Homebrew or even bother to do the simple stage loader hack.

And some other people will always say that having no tripping is game changing because it buffs characters that dash a lot such as Fox or Sonic while indirectly nerfing characters that don't such as Wario.

If you ask me, those arguments are ridiculous and I'm completely in favor of no tripping.

I just think it might be hard to enforce.

Same applies with the subject at hand right here.
 

Surri-Sama

Smash Hero
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#21
I spent about 20 mins trying to write something i could use to justify me saying i don't like this...because thats how i feel but i really couldn't...

This just seems wrong. Modding games to make suit for minor thing is really silly imo,and this is minor...too much fuss is made up about wind / nados.

IMO once you have to plug a gameshark into an N64 to play play smash64 competitively, you're more FAKE then online...which is already bad but it's all we have.

Either way my opinion on this has no real basis so I'll be content with whats happened. I'll never join / organize any tourney with this :p
 

Nintendude

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#22
I'm going to add this to the ruleset now that I have some time. Feel free to continue talking about it there, given how hard-to-access this forum is.
Why is this already being added to the ruleset? I'd really have to agree with Surri on this one. I just think that allowing no wind/tornado codes is a slippery slope that must be avoided.

Everyone should read some of this thread:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=309529
 
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#24
If you guys think so, I can certainly cut it from the ruleset.

I suppose any reasonable TO would be able to consider something like this without needing to be told.
 
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