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No love for Sigurd? (FE4) Discussion Thread

Fawriel

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Also, a friend of mine's a big fan of Live-A-Live and he's made mention to me of pretty much all the RPG scenarios to choose from in that game, but I don't seem to recall the one which you're referring to. I'm really compelled to know though...
That's odd. =o

So there exist, like... 3 Live-A-Live fans in the world! =D

If anyone still plans to play that game, skip the rest of this post.
Also, note that it's been a long time since I've played it, so my memory's a bit foggy.

Well, the scenario I mean is Orsted's, the Knight chapter.
It all starts out all nice and good. You're a knight, your best friend's a wizard, you duel at a tournament, knight wins, knight gets princess's hand in marriage.
That very night, though, the princess is captured right from the arms of Orsted by the Demon King, who was said to have been slain by the Great Hero Hash and his companion Uranus, who have since retired. Hash is said to have moved to a lone hut in the mountains due to his hate of humans, which people can't seem to be able to understand.
Whatever the case, Orsted is declared the new hero and is asked to save the princess, kill the Demon King and thus save the country. Not really having a choice, Orsted accepts and ventures to find Hash and his old companion, who are the ones who know how to enter the Demon King's lair.
His wizard friend Straybow joins up with him as he leaves the town.

They find Uranus in a small village with his wife, and he reluctantly decides to lead them to Hash's hut despite telling them about his hate for humans, which was caused by the fact that people always gladly rely on someone else to do what they are too weak and dumb to do.

They wander up the mountain only to find a hut with a gravestone behind it for the great hero Hash and a disgruntled old man inside.
Of course, Uranus recognizes him. The old man is Hash himself. They try to convince him to help, but he refuses, even after being called a "coward" by his old friend.
But after leaving, he soon holds them up, having changed his mind, since even though people are selfish and weak, somebody has to be the hero, and he will help them even if only to prove that he is not a coward.

Skipping forward, they infiltrate the lair and kill the Demon King... but it didn't seem to be the Demon King himself.
Straybow, the wizard, begins to examine the demonic statue in the room when suddenly the cavern begins to collapse, and Hash collapses as well, having failed to mention his illness. With his dying words, he urges Orsted to save the princess, the one person who believes in him.
As the three who are left attempt to escape, Straybow is trapped behind the door of the room, leaving him stuck in the cave-in.

Orsted and Uranus return to the castle, exhausted, and rest for the night.
The hero wakes up in the middle of the night as he is visited by the Demon King. He follows the beast outside his room and proceeds to fight it... only to see the illusion vanish. He had unwillingly murdered the king.
The guards rush in and immediately back away. "It's the Demon King! Orsted is the Demon King!", they cry, accusing him of killing Hash and Straybow.
Uranus rushes out and tries to defend Orsted, but is captured and thrown into jail for being an accomplice, while Orsted has to flee into the mountains where Hash once lived.
Lamenting over the hero's grave, the knight remembers Hash's words that he must fight to protect the one person who believes in him.
Having found new courage, Orsted returns to the castle... and is imprisoned in the same cell as Uranus. The old man, on the verge of dying, tells him about how he was tortured and he realized what drove Hash into his hatred. With his last strength and while telling Orsted to rescue the princess, who believes in him, he uses magic to open the prison cell and free Orsted, who has to escape once more as people flee from him or fight him, all while yelling at him for killing Uranus as well.

Orsted then proceeds to the lair once more and fights through hordes of monsters only to end up in the room they fought the false Demon King in... he discovers a staircase behind the statue that wasn't there before.
On top of it stands Straybow, his old best friend.
Straybow got fed up with always standing in the shadow of his knightly friend. He figured out that the Demon King was false, he figured out where the real one was, he defeated it and accepted his powers, he produced the fake earthquake and faked his death and he was the one who created the illusion of the Demon King, all in order to punish Orsted for never letting anyone recognize his wizard friend.
They fight... and Orsted wins.
The princess enters the scene... and is crying. She yells at Orsted for always pushing his friend aside, always acting like he's the best, always overshadowing and then even killing his best friend, who was the one who saved her from the demon. She loved Straybow and cannot live without him. That said, she rams a knife into her chest and dies immediately.

Standing in front of the statue of the Demon King, Orsted looks back.
He just participated in a tournament that had the Princess's hand as the prize.
He was forced to rescue her by the people who declared him the hero and told him to save them.
He was forced to kill the king.
The only friend he had left, he caused to be tortured and to die.
He was forced to kill his former best friend...
...and saw the only person who he thought still believed in him hate him and kill herself.
While all he ever did was to try to do what's right.

Full of hate and despair, his now cold heart accepts the Demon King's powers.


The Ancient Greeks tried to use drama to cause catharsis in the audience.
The very definition of the tragic is a story in which the hero tries to do what he believes is right, only to be forced into his demise by powers beyond his control... and the more he tries, the worse it gets.
This story really shook the very foundations of my psyche, something I would never have expected from a Snes game. Up until the end, you expect the story to still take this hopeful positive turn, when it all suddenly comes crashing into your face.
I guess I can seriously say that a catharsis took place there.

...although I still should have just copied the summary from Wikipedia. *rubs head*
 

Lord_Deathborne

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That's odd. =o

So there exist, like... 3 Live-A-Live fans in the world! =D

If anyone still plans to play that game, skip the rest of this post.
Also, note that it's been a long time since I've played it, so my memory's a bit foggy.

Well, the scenario I mean is Orsted's, the Knight chapter.
It all starts out all nice and good. You're a knight, your best friend's a wizard, you duel at a tournament, knight wins, knight gets princess's hand in marriage.
That very night, though, the princess is captured right from the arms of Orsted by the Demon King, who was said to have been slain by the Great Hero Hash and his companion Uranus, who have since retired. Hash is said to have moved to a lone hut in the mountains due to his hate of humans, which people can't seem to be able to understand.
Whatever the case, Orsted is declared the new hero and is asked to save the princess, kill the Demon King and thus save the country. Not really having a choice, Orsted accepts and ventures to find Hash and his old companion, who are the ones who know how to enter the Demon King's lair.
His wizard friend Straybow joins up with him as he leaves the town.

They find Uranus in a small village with his wife, and he reluctantly decides to lead them to Hash's hut despite telling them about his hate for humans, which was caused by the fact that people always gladly rely on someone else to do what they are too weak and dumb to do.

They wander up the mountain only to find a hut with a gravestone behind it for the great hero Hash and a disgruntled old man inside.
Of course, Uranus recognizes him. The old man is Hash himself. They try to convince him to help, but he refuses, even after being called a "coward" by his old friend.
But after leaving, he soon holds them up, having changed his mind, since even though people are selfish and weak, somebody has to be the hero, and he will help them even if only to prove that he is not a coward.

Skipping forward, they infiltrate the lair and kill the Demon King... but it didn't seem to be the Demon King himself.
Straybow, the wizard, begins to examine the demonic statue in the room when suddenly the cavern begins to collapse, and Hash collapses as well, having failed to mention his illness. With his dying words, he urges Orsted to save the princess, the one person who believes in him.
As the three who are left attempt to escape, Straybow is trapped behind the door of the room, leaving him stuck in the cave-in.

Orsted and Uranus return to the castle, exhausted, and rest for the night.
The hero wakes up in the middle of the night as he is visited by the Demon King. He follows the beast outside his room and proceeds to fight it... only to see the illusion vanish. He had unwillingly murdered the king.
The guards rush in and immediately back away. "It's the Demon King! Orsted is the Demon King!", they cry, accusing him of killing Hash and Straybow.
Uranus rushes out and tries to defend Orsted, but is captured and thrown into jail for being an accomplice, while Orsted has to flee into the mountains where Hash once lived.
Lamenting over the hero's grave, the knight remembers Hash's words that he must fight to protect the one person who believes in him.
Having found new courage, Orsted returns to the castle... and is imprisoned in the same cell as Uranus. The old man, on the verge of dying, tells him about how he was tortured and he realized what drove Hash into his hatred. With his last strength and while telling Orsted to rescue the princess, who believes in him, he uses magic to open the prison cell and free Orsted, who has to escape once more as people flee from him or fight him, all while yelling at him for killing Uranus as well.

Orsted then proceeds to the lair once more and fights through hordes of monsters only to end up in the room they fought the false Demon King in... he discovers a staircase behind the statue that wasn't there before.
On top of it stands Straybow, his old best friend.
Straybow got fed up with always standing in the shadow of his knightly friend. He figured out that the Demon King was false, he figured out where the real one was, he defeated it and accepted his powers, he produced the fake earthquake and faked his death and he was the one who created the illusion of the Demon King, all in order to punish Orsted for never letting anyone recognize his wizard friend.
They fight... and Orsted wins.
The princess enters the scene... and is crying. She yells at Orsted for always pushing his friend aside, always acting like he's the best, always overshadowing and then even killing his best friend, who was the one who saved her from the demon. She loved Straybow and cannot live without him. That said, she rams a knife into her chest and dies immediately.

Standing in front of the statue of the Demon King, Orsted looks back.
He just participated in a tournament that had the Princess's hand as the prize.
He was forced to rescue her by the people who declared him the hero and told him to save them.
He was forced to kill the king.
The only friend he had left, he caused to be tortured and to die.
He was forced to kill his former best friend...
...and saw the only person who he thought still believed in him hate him and kill herself.
While all he ever did was to try to do what's right.

Full of hate and despair, his now cold heart accepts the Demon King's powers.


The Ancient Greeks tried to use drama to cause catharsis in the audience.
The very definition of the tragic is a story in which the hero tries to do what he believes is right, only to be forced into his demise by powers beyond his control... and the more he tries, the worse it gets.
This story really shook the very foundations of my psyche, something I would never have expected from a Snes game. Up until the end, you expect the story to still take this hopeful positive turn, when it all suddenly comes crashing into your face.
I guess I can seriously say that a catharsis took place there.

...although I still should have just copied the summary from Wikipedia. *rubs head*
Ah... I should have figured that was the one... I remember him telling me that the story was sad, but never really explained why - although I guess it's my fault for not asking why... But wow... that just... sucks... even by reading the summary you provided, it really strikes a chord. I remember watching my sister play through some Live-A-Live's more amusing stories (Akira's story and the one about the caveman), but never was interested enough to play it for myself for some reason... At any rate, I really need to check out this game now.
 

Fawriel

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Ah... I should have figured that was the one... I remember him telling me that the story was sad, but never really explained why - although I guess it's my fault for not asking why... But wow... that just... sucks... even by reading the summary you provided, it really strikes a chord. I remember watching my sister play through some Live-A-Live's more amusing stories (Akira's story and the one about the caveman), but never was interested enough to play it for myself for some reason... At any rate, I really need to check out this game now.
Well, I guess my summary was a success then. ^^

I can understand that the game didn't immediately interest you. It feels like Squaresoft kinda just experimented a bit with certain RPG ideas and some of them are just lousy while others are amazing while again others don't really add much. The ninja chapter has an amazing atmosphere and a giant load of secrets, but many of those are just nigh impossible to figure out without a walkthrough... actually, a lot of the chapters have something like that. Seriously, the prehistoric chapter has some rock with a barely visible face on it in some wide open plain. You have to stand in front of it and press A exactly 100 times for a cave to open somewhere else. Before the 100th time, nothing happens to tell you that anything will happen. And if you press it one time too many, it closes again. What. The. Hell.

But yeah, the good parts make it a worthy experience. Also, soundtrack by Yoko Shimomura. OHMYGAWD! *fanboys*
 

Diddy Kong

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Yes indeed, Sigurd IS ****ing awesome! =) Got my hands on a translated FE4 and man I luv it! The best is that I'm still at Chapter 2, but I don't really think that counts as a compremisement to other FE's since the maps are LOTS bigger. Screw Marth, give us Sigurd! :D
 

Kirby knight

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Honestly the only way I could actually see Sigurd making it in is if they utlized his horse and spear otherwise he really doesn't bring that much to the table (sans being the so called most popular lord in Japan).

-Knight
 

LockeExe

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Honestly the only way I could actually see Sigurd making it in is if they utlized his horse and spear otherwise he really doesn't bring that much to the table (sans being the so called most popular lord in Japan).

-Knight
I believe in Sakurai's journal he stated Sigurd was his favorite Fire Emblem lord. I'm not too sure though. That would sure improve his chances though!

I'd rather Sigurd not on his horse.
 

Kirby knight

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I believe in Sakurai's journal he stated Sigurd was his favorite Fire Emblem lord. I'm not too sure though. That would sure improve his chances though!

I'd rather Sigurd not on his horse.
Hmm, well that is an interesting find that Sigurd is Sakurai's favorite lord, however I don't think he can extend his personal bias outside of perhaps his own series (Kirby, Metaknight, King Dedede).

-Knight
 

Pieman0920

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Sigurd is not Sakurai's favorite lord, that's just a rumor due to Roy's name in the debug menue being EMBLEM, which may as well have been because his name hadn't been decided on for his own game at those stages. e_e

Sigurd's chances are actually dirt poor for multiple reasons with no benefits to put him over it. The only way he can make it in is if Marth gets cut.
 

LockeExe

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Sigurd is not Sakurai's favorite lord, that's just a rumor due to Roy's name in the debug menue being EMBLEM, which may as well have been because his name hadn't been decided on for his own game at those stages. e_e

Sigurd's chances are actually dirt poor for multiple reasons with no benefits to put him over it. The only way he can make it in is if Marth gets cut.
You can keep on stating that but I found something quite interesting.

Since SSB64, Sakurai has wanted Sigurd to be a fighter. Of course, that never happened. And when he started work on Sigurd for Melee, he got cut off, and had to instead include Roy (Marth was already going to be included as Sigurd’s “partner”). Now that Ike has replaced Sigurd as the top requested, and most popular, FE Lord in Japan, Sakurai has a new decision on his hands. He has expressed interest in the character before, even remarking that he was the first international lord that everybody seemed to like.

Through that passage, you can assume that Sakurai's favorite lord/character is Sigurd, he's wanted him in since SSB64. I know, it's just an assumption; but Sigurd also used to be the most popular FE Lord in Japan.

Source

I don't know where you get to the conclusion that his chances are dirt poor.
 

Pieman0920

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That just fan made....thats not a real source at even, they bought into the speculation. e_e

And there are multiple factors that make them dirt poor. For one, Celice is the main character of FE4, aka the only game Sigurd was ever in, which came out ages ago. And while Japan only characters do have to the ability to get in as PCs, it's still a hard wall to climb over, especially for one that's not the most current of his franchise like Lucas is. There's also the fact that he'd need to use his single handed sword to stay in character, and quite frankly, if you include Marth, that means that there will be 5 styles like this, and three of them being FE characters. Heck, what if those three are the only ones in, do you know how dumb that would look? A whole franchise represented by the same character type. It's like AlttP Link, OoT Link, and TP Link being the only Zelda representatives but just with different names. =/
 

LockeExe

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That just fan made....thats not a real source at even, they bought into the speculation. e_e

And there are multiple factors that make them dirt poor. For one, Celice is the main character of FE4, aka the only game Sigurd was ever in, which came out ages ago. And while Japan only characters do have to the ability to get in as PCs, it's still a hard wall to climb over, especially for one that's not the most current of his franchise like Lucas is. There's also the fact that he'd need to use his single handed sword to stay in character, and quite frankly, if you include Marth, that means that there will be 5 styles like this, and three of them being FE characters. Heck, what if those three are the only ones in, do you know how dumb that would look? A whole franchise represented by the same character type. It's like AlttP Link, OoT Link, and TP Link being the only Zelda representatives but just with different names. =/
Although Celice is the main character, Sigurd is still one of Japan's favorite lords and favorite characters. Although his main is a sword, he can easily be changed to using a Spear in Brawl. I agree it's a hard wall to climb over. But even with a sword, he could have a unique character set. I know what you mean about the reps, there aren't too many popular lords using anything other than a sword. Hector uses an axe and was very popular on NSider, and people through Eirika and Ephraim (Sp?) weren't popular enough to get in. It's possible for him to get in the game, I still believe he has a decent chance of getting in.
 

TheSlickDaddy

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Sigurd is like one of the most manliest and awesome Fire Emblem and Nintendo charcter of all time! I love FIre Emlbme 4 because it has such a deep storyline dealing with religion and corrupted politics and it proves Nintendo IS NOT KID FRIEDNLY like so many ignorant fanboys/girls claim. (Sex, violence, murder, revenge, ****, incest, poltics, war-makse up just about 90% of the Fire Emblem 4 storyline)

Sarukai wanted Sigurd in Melee in SSB64, but had some issues with that, sothre's a strong chance Sigurd might be in Brawl.
 

Kirby knight

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Although Celice is the main character, Sigurd is still one of Japan's favorite lords and favorite characters. Although his main is a sword, he can easily be changed to using a Spear in Brawl. I agree it's a hard wall to climb over. But even with a sword, he could have a unique character set. I know what you mean about the reps, there aren't too many popular lords using anything other than a sword. Hector uses an axe and was very popular on NSider, and people through Eirika and Ephraim (Sp?) weren't popular enough to get in. It's possible for him to get in the game, I still believe he has a decent chance of getting in.
The fact of that matter is that Sigurd will use his sword 100%. I mean if you played FE4 Did you use spears after Sigurd got the Tyfring(sp)? Every single Lord in SSB to date uses there most powerful weapon. Sigurd would not use a spear as his main weapon.

Sigurd has alot going for him when it comes to him being a playable character. (yay Celice alt costume please)

-Knight
 

LockeExe

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The fact of that matter is that Sigurd will use his sword 100%. I mean if you played FE4 Did you use spears after Sigurd got the Tyfring(sp)? Every single Lord in SSB to date uses there most powerful weapon. Sigurd would not use a spear as his main weapon.

Sigurd has alot going for him when it comes to him being a playable character. (yay Celice alt costume please)

-Knight
I know, but people seem to say that we have too many sword users.

Simply an easy way to get around it. Every lord has a secondary weapon.
 

Fawriel

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Indeed. Link pulls bombs out of hammerspace and our "Sir Realistic", Snake, pulls even more unlikely contraptions out of thin air.
So using a spear for some of his moves doesn't seem unlikely at all. In fact, it could make him rather interesting, like how Mewtwo used his tail for tilts and dark energy for smashes.
 

Pieman0920

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Although Celice is the main character, Sigurd is still one of Japan's favorite lords and favorite characters. Although his main is a sword, he can easily be changed to using a Spear in Brawl. I agree it's a hard wall to climb over. But even with a sword, he could have a unique character set. I know what you mean about the reps, there aren't too many popular lords using anything other than a sword. Hector uses an axe and was very popular on NSider, and people through Eirika and Ephraim (Sp?) weren't popular enough to get in. It's possible for him to get in the game, I still believe he has a decent chance of getting in.
We've never had a game without the main character though. Do you really think that would change? As said in other places, he uses a sword. That's his main weapon, and at best it'd be in like one special. Heck, it's like saying Ike is going to use an axe. You know he won't but he could. The sword though limits him though, since there's only so much you can add to it. Sigurd's not going to use a far out style that seperates him, and since Ike's standard moves can be perfectly matched up with Marth's (Which doesn't mean that they are the same, only that they look the same) it hurts him even more if you want to try it three fold. (especially when the look so much alike)
 

NukeA6

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Honestly the only way I could actually see Sigurd making it in is if they utlized his horse and spear otherwise he really doesn't bring that much to the table (sans being the so called most popular lord in Japan).

-Knight
Putting Sigurd on a horse is like putting Captain Falcon in his car. Not going to happen.

That just fan made....thats not a real source at even, they bought into the speculation. e_e

And there are multiple factors that make them dirt poor. For one, Celice is the main character of FE4, aka the only game Sigurd was ever in, which came out ages ago.
Celice was the main character for the seconf part of the game. Besides, I don't think most people would have known him before playing FE4.

The fact of that matter is that Sigurd will use his sword 100%. I mean if you played FE4 Did you use spears after Sigurd got the Tyfring(sp)? Every single Lord in SSB to date uses there most powerful weapon. Sigurd would not use a spear as his main weapon.

-Knight
Does Ike use his most powerful weapon in Brawl?

There's nothing wrong with making things different. Did Pit split his bow into swords in the two Kid Icarus games?

Also I had Sigurd using spears for most of the time. You don't even get the Tyfring until much later and it's for limited time since
he dies in the same chapter.
 

Kirby knight

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Putting Sigurd on a horse is like putting Captain Falcon in his car. Not going to happen.

Not really I don't see what the big problem would be if Sigurd had a Wario Chopper like horse. Is is really that hard to fathom Sigurd having a move like that? Your not really creative I guess, and it's not like putting Captain Falcon in a car; it very well could happen if Sigurd was to be included.


Does Ike use his most powerful weapon in Brawl?

Yes, I'm pretty sure he does. Unless he uses a different sword in FE10; which doesn't really matter considering he's canon to FE9, so obviously he's going to use Ragnell it's be stupid not too.

There's nothing wrong with making things different. Did Pit split his bow into swords in the two Kid Icarus games?

I'm not talking about Pit. I'm talking about Sigurd. He wll use his tyfring as his main weapon if he's in the game; of course he could have lances, but if you think he wouldn't use his tyfring then you are a fool.

Also I had Sigurd using spears for most of the time. You don't even get the Tyfring until much later and it's for limited time since
he dies in the same chapter.
So what? He still has it and he still uses it. Marth uses the Falsion(sp) Roy the Sword of Seals, and Ike Ragnell. I mean it would be dumb to include Sigurd without his Tyfring.

-Knight
 

Pieman0920

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A horse isn't a motorcycle at all. The mechanics of its walking are probably even more complicated than any of the playable characters really. It's not going to be added in.

And people who have not heard of Celice probably have never hard of Sigurd. (Not to mention Celice takes prominence on the cover of the box for FE4, and makes a cameo in FE5.)

And really, Sigurd would never have that spear. It's not his signature weapon. It's like Link using his hookshot as his main form of combat. Sure it'd be original, but doesn't represent Link in the slightest.
 

raphtmarqui

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And really, Sigurd would never have that spear. It's not his signature weapon. It's like Link using his hookshot as his main form of combat. Sure it'd be original, but doesn't represent Link in the slightest.
Thats tru, but at the very least Sigurd should use the spear for a few attacks.
 

NukeA6

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So what? He still has it and he still uses it. Marth uses the Falsion(sp) Roy the Sword of Seals, and Ike Ragnell. I mean it would be dumb to include Sigurd without his Tyfring.

-Knight
Tyfring is Celice's main weapon. Sigurd only uses it in one chapter and it's pretty brief.

Besides, I always pictured Sigurd would wield a sword and spear if he was included in Brawl.

Celice takes prominence on the cover of the box for FE4
Oh really? I stand corrected then.
 
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