Social NintenZone Social 6.0 - Doing Games Quickly Edition

Which Will You Buy?


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with 68 characters(if pokemon trainer counted as 3 in brawl they do now i dont care what the image says) im honestly shocked and pleased that i was 100% right with the idea of all the wariors

im gonna guess well get 4-6 more characters pre dlc who? well thats up in the air really as its hard to guess
 

Chrono.

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I just noticed the Icies don't change with the costumes.

Unless it's just a CSS quirk, you might be only controlling Popo this time around.
 

Z25

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Ah, I see.
*starts watching it*
....Ummmm...Samus does not have a Dark Samus Alternate color? Hmm....have we seen Assist Trophy Dark Samus?
We have not seen either of those. Dark Samus could definitely be an echo now then. That be crazy to have four Metroid reps
 

praline

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with 68 characters(if pokemon trainer counted as 3 in brawl they do now i dont care what the image says) im honestly shocked and pleased that i was 100% right with the idea of all the wariors

im gonna guess well get 4-6 more characters pre dlc who? well thats up in the air really as its hard to guess
I think we will get 5 total newcomers for this. That’d give us an even 70.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we got dlc characters but I don’t expect them either.
 

Ivander

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Looking at some of the alternates:
-Zelda seems to have outfits based on the regular Zelda(the first Alternate), Link to the Past Zelda(blue outfit) and Twilight Princess Zelda(2nd to last alternate). I actually think her purple outfit(the one after the Blue outfit) is based on Hilda, just without the hair swap like Palutena. I mean, compare her purple outfit with this:
In case of IMG Break:
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...Artwork.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20131115065609
Like, outfit-wise, that looks uncanny. It just doesn't look entirely like it because Zelda's hair doesn't swap with it.

-Leaf has a Trainer outfit based on Emerald May.
-Marth still has his Roy outfit despite Roy being in the game.
-The Ice Climbers don't swap when colors change, but last time I checked, they didn't in Brawl either and you could still play Nana. So might just be a Render thing.
-Majority of Little Mac's costumes are gone. Unsurprising considering how needless the other Wireless outfits were.
-There is a Meta-Ridley outfit, yet which one is it when his Alternates are being picked? It could be there, just very hard to spot, but still, it's hard to tell.
 

praline

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I hate when people say “atleast they’re in Smash” when referring to a character being an assist trophy.

**** that. I hate assist trophies and always have them off.
 

vaanrose

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I think we will get 5 total newcomers for this. That’d give us an even 70.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we got dlc characters but I don’t expect them either.
This game will have even more DLC than the last one. That DLC was a massive success and nobody even owned a Wii U.
 

Chrono.

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All Pokemon Trainer alts are references, it's pretty neat.

Red gets Gold, Lucas and Calem

Leaf gets Emerald May, Lyra and Ultra Moon

Leaf's alts being based on third version/remake playable trainers is a neat touch considering Leaf herself came from a remake (I mean so is the male PT but shhhh.)

And yeah I know he's not "really" Red but, simplicity's sake.

EDIT: Made a mistake with one of the alts. It's actually Lyra and not Rosa. No Gen 5 colors.
 
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Substitution

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You know, I gotta be honest I am confused by a lot of these changes.
Melee's Air Dashing, references in the hud for specific characters, battlefield along with Omega mode, an overall faster gameplay, grab teching, parrying, and now a way to remove stage hazards.

Like these are things I'd expect in like a Project M-esque mod. Like these are changes that anyone who didn't take the game super duper seriously would care about, or even want. I can't exactly say the one feature people outside the comp base were clamoring for, was a meter that shows how much magic Robin had. Much less that air dodge in Melee that lets you do the dashing.
And I sure as hell know people wouldn't want to take away unique features of any stage, unless it was for the intention of balancing them out in a tournament setting.

Like given Sakurai's past with the comp scene, are we actually getting a competitively focused Smash Bros? We esports now?
 

praline

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I’m looking at the Zelda time line cause I’m thinking of my Zelda game and I didn’t realise that Link to the Past, Oracle of Seasons,Oracle of Ages and Link’s Awakening are all the same Link.
 

mario123007

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I'm not gonna take the opinion of a Nintendo-biased almost-15-year-old kid as serious.

Nintendo did crazy well with the Smash stuff, but that's really the only thing that got my interest personally.

That and the FighterZ port, which was revealed in such a casual handwavey way.

Then again, Super Mario Party also got my attention because it looks like there's no more cars, so...
Why aren't you Nintendo biased when liking Nintendo games the most? Lol

But yeah, objectively I have to admit Xbox has the best presentation.

But, no, Devolver Digital wins E3, again.
I'm probably the only person here excited for Daemon X Machina. But I love my mech games, plus they got the guys from Armored Core behind it and sick tunes.

Can't wait for it.
I like that game too because it just screams Xenoblade Chronicles X.

Hell, Daemon X Machina it is literally what happens if Breath of the Wild and Xenoblade Chronicles X had a baby.

While Smash has promise, I'm not at that insanely hype stage for it yet.

Having all of the characters back is great, and the new lighting engine is pretty (sometimes). But there are still some questionable decisions on the mechanical side like that launching issue and the pointless addition of ladder attacks, and the game hasn't done much to give it it's own identity yet.

I mean for all intents and purposes, the game does almost fall under the enhanced port category. It's a VERY enhanced port, but a ton of stuff is directly lifted from Smash Wii U. Hell, we have only two completely original stages so far.

Granted, I kinda wanted that as far as characters go. But the reason I wanted that is so they could focus on more innovative modes once again. And they haven't shown that yet. So I will have some skepticism until they do.
Uh,not sure if you noticed, Smash Bros Ultimate was made on Unreal Engine, that's why the textures and lighting have way more improvement than Smash4.

As for the mechanics, since we aren't competitive player, we don't know if those new mechanics are good or not. Also your statement of "Haven't done much to give it's own identity" is also pretty confusing. I mean the title speaks for itself, it is the ultimate Smash Bros game.

Like I said, it's being built on a new engine, new mechanics, so you really can't call a very enhanced port, To be fair they do have old aesthetics return that's for sure, such as characters like Robin and Corrin still look identical to their Smash 4 look. And many returning stages aren't even from Wii U as well btw.

So I guess you aren't impressed because it felt kind of like Smash Wii U? Well, you can sort of treat this like how Splatoon and Splatoon 2 compares.


Hey uuhhhhh, smash Ultimate has the best icons in the series
:061:
The only icon I felt was a bit lazy is Sonic's icon...

ABADANGO WHAT YOU DOIN
We need Dabuz...
As far as potential mains go...

It more than likely won't change much for me as Link, ZSS, and Cloud are definitely my Top 3 (as you can probably tell from my signature); of course I'll also have to see how Falco, Roy, Ike, Zelda, and Ganondorf will play compared to their past iterations.
For me Shulk, Cloud, and Ike are probably not going anywhere when it comes to my mains as well.

Mario though I have to see if the changes are good or not. His new up B... looks pretty bad in my opinion.


So here are my most E3 in brief recap:
EA: **** off.
Xbox: Exclusives/World Premier indeed.
Playstation: As usual good
Nintendo: Smash Bros Ultimate 1v1/ 10

Alright, alright, here is my Nintendo 2018 E3 review:
Kicking off with Daemon X Machina was odd at first, but then man... I wanna get that game.
XC2 DLC we already know how the Blade/Driver works in the DLC, it will be awesome. I can tell the ending will be somewhat predictable but I believe it will answer many questions for the main story.
And pretty much the leaks were real...
Fire Emblem Switch looks awesome.
Super Smash Bros Ultimate is the Smash Bros game that I have always wanted, keeping the best of all the past Smash Bros games and turning it into a solid Smash Bros game that appeals to all players.
I have admit, Smash Bros took a half of the Direct was a bummer but if you aware how Nintendo handles with their announcement, you know the drill...
Also back in 2017 we all screaming for Smash Bros, and now HEY here's Smash Bros Ultimate and people cries "WHERE'S YOSHI? WHERE'S Bayonetta 3? WHERE'S MP4?" I know I know this is just my exaggeration but hope you know what I am trying to convey.

So I give this E3 Direct an A-, could have gone shorter with Smash Bros, but I'm glad they show it enough for us to be hyped.
 

vaanrose

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I’m looking at the Zelda time line cause I’m thinking of my Zelda game and I didn’t realise that Link to the Past, Oracle of Seasons,Oracle of Ages and Link’s Awakening are all the same Link.
This is a plothole ridden retcon that still drives me up a wall years after it was made official.
 

Substitution

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See first rule I learned about playing Zelda is to ignore the timeline.
Trust me it will not effect the way you play these games if anything they become better as you're not trying to put the pieces together.

As someone playing through Hyrule Warriors right now I can tell you the crash course of Zelda lore isn't worth it. Not even for the sexy fish people.
 

Androobie

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They never designed the Zelda games with a timeline in mind, and everything you see is simply retroactive.

I wouldn’t put much faith in it, and I honestly never understood why so many other Zelda fans went nuts over the timeline in the first place.

It's like trying to make a timeline of Mario or Kirby games. I figured they were their own thing and occasionally had winks and nods to other titles unless they were direct sequels like Majora's Mask or Phantom Hourglass.
 

Chrono.

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They never designed the Zelda games with a timeline in mind, and everything you see is simply retroactive.

I wouldn’t put much faith in it, and I honestly never understood why so many other Zelda fans went nuts over the timeline in the first place.

It's like trying to make a timeline of Mario or Kirby games. I figured they were their own thing and occasionally had winks and nods to other titles unless they were direct sequels like Majora's Mask or Phantom Hourglass.
Not really the case, Wind Waker makes it extremely obvious that it takes place after Ocarina of Time and the fact that the Ganondorf in WW is the very same one from OoT.

So there was at least some attempt at a continuity that was more than a wink or a nudge.
 
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vaanrose

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Isn't this pretty much the official timeline in a nutshell.
To a degree. But up until the downfall timeline retcon, the franchise actually did have a pretty clear intended timeline. The problem was that the two men in charge for most of the franchise's life, Miyamoto and Anouma, have two very different ideologies that never quite gelled, and they were in a constant tug-of-war with each other.

Miyamoto oversaw the LoZ to OoT era, and the timeline was crystal clear OoT - Alttp - LA - Loz - AoL.

Anouma took over after that, and things got a bit more confusing with Wind Waker, but there was still an intended timeline wherein Wind Waker was an alternate future caused by the Hero of Time, and everything else was the "true" timeline. Then FSA happened, and Miyamoto basically threw a hissy fit that Anouma was daring to create a game that took place between OoT and AlttP. This isn't some crazy conspiracy theory, this is a real documented event and really shines a light on why The Happy Mask Man was supposedly based on Miyamoto, for his tendency to be all smiles one minute and then be pissed the next.

Anouma was left with broken pieces with no solution, but he still tried to do what he could with them. Even TP was designed originally to fill the same purpose FSA was, to bridge the gap between OoT and AlttP. But ultimately Miyamoto was having none of that, and that's why we got some stupid three way time travel multiverse bull**** in what is at it's heart a very straight forward fantasy story about an elf fighting a pig wizard.
 

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The Oracle games were conceived originally as an updated remake of the original NES Legend of Zelda. Oracle of Seasons still has an extremely similar map and dungeon progression. But again, Miyamoto didn't like that idea, and midway through development the games were rewritten to be stand-alone. That's largely why they feel so disconnected from the rest of the series. They were forcibly divorced from them.

A similar thing happened more recently with ALBW, which we know began development as a remake of AlttP, before midway switching gears.

I love Miyamoto, I'd never suggest otherwise, but he's kind of sabotaged the Zelda series attempts to tell a coherent story at every opportunity. It's always struck me as so weird, given his usual mantra of gameplay over story, that he'd even care what story Anouma tried to impart on to the games, as long as they were fun to play, which they generally were. But he seemed to have a real sticking point about not touching his original story arc of OoT-AlttP-LoZ.
 

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We do all agree that the timeline is a complete dumpster fire, right?
Well, now it is. BotW irreversibly breaks it, but honestly, by that point it was being held together with duct tape and good intentions. I don't fault the BotW team one bit for just deciding to say **** the timeline.
 

Androobie

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The timeline started to fall apart with Four Swords, in my honest opinion. At a glance, it might not seem very important to the overall plot of the series, but it is.

The game sees four Links trying to save Hyrule from Ganon, like you do. Except, this isn't the same Ganon from Ocarina of Time. It's a new incarnation, because reasons. This Ganon had only just started, and his first evil act was stealing a trident from a desert palace which allowed to him to access the Dark World.

Since the Dark World is in Four Swords, that means that it must take place after the Imprisoning War (because that's where the Dark World was created). That also means that the Ganon in Four Swords Adventures wasn't involved in the war and as such is not the Ganon from Link to the Past.

Now, since Link to the Past's Ganon was killed at the end of Link to the Past, it might make sense to place Four Swords a couple of centuries after that. However, that's impossible, because at the end of Link to the Past, the Dark World was turned back into the Sacred Realm.

So that means that Four Swords can only take place in between the Imprisoning War and Link to the Past. But there's already one incarnation of Ganon alive during that time period, which rules that out too.

So yeah...
 
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vaanrose

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The timeline started to fall apart with Four Swords, in my honest opinion. At a glance, it might not seem very important to the overall plot of the series, but it is.

The game sees four Links trying to save Hyrule from Ganon, like you do. Except, this isn't the same Ganon from Ocarina of Time. It's a new incarnation, because reasons. This Ganon had only just started, and his first evil act was stealing a trident from a desert palace which allowed to him to access the Dark World.

Since the Dark World is in Four Swords, that means that it must take place after the Imprisoning War (because that's where the Dark World was created). That also means that the Ganon in Four Swords Adventures wasn't involved in the war and as such is not the Ganon from Link to the Past.

Now, since Link to the Past's Ganon was killed at the end of Link to the Past, it might make sense to place Four Swords a couple of centuries after that. However, that's impossible, because at the end of Link to the Past, the Dark World was turned back into the Sacred Realm.

So that means that Four Swords can only take place in between the Imprisoning War and Link to the Past. But there's already one incarnation of Ganon alive during that time period, which rules that out too.

So yeah...
That's precisely because of Miyamoto, and exactly what I was talking about.

The ending of OoT, wherein Ganondorf is sealed into the Sacred Realm with one third of the Triforce, and the beginning of A Link to the Past, wherein Ganon is sealed in the Dark World with all three pieces of the Triforce, do not actually line up well enough for OoT to be a true retelling of the Imprisoning War, as was Miyamoto's original intention.

Anouma saw this inconsistency as a branching off point, and Wind Waker was written as a direct sequel to OoT. It massively severs the connection between OoT and AlttP for obvious reasons, including the flooding of Hyrule and the death of Ganon.

But Anouma wasn't flying blind. He had a plan. Shortly after the release of WW, an updated port of AlttP released on Gameboy, and included the Four Swords game. The actual Four Swords game was really just a side story and didn't tie in to the overarching narrative, but one seemingly minor change to the main AlttP game had huge story potential.

Inside the Sacred Realm, located deep in the Pyramid of Power, you can find the shattered remnants of the Four Sword.

Because when this port was released, Anouma was already in the stages of writing Four Swords Adventure, which was designed to tell the true story of the Imprisoning War and serve as a direct connection between WW and AlttP. The map of FSA is extremely similar to AlttP, even in its final released form. It was even moreso originally. With one obvious difference. It's partially flooded. The implication is clear. This is the transitioning point between the flooded Hyrule of WW and the dry Hyrule of AlttP.

And as you pointed out, we have the introduction of a NEW Ganon, one which uses the weapon the AlttP Ganon was most known for, and at the end of the game, he's sealed within the Four Sword itself.

All the pieces are there for a complete, coherent narrative.

But Miyamoto vetoed the entire thing, very late into production. In his mind, OoT is the Imprisoning War and the backstory to AlttP, period, end of discussion. So the final released version of FSA rewrote some things, changed some maps around, and positioned itself as a side story in all the marketing. As per Miyamoto's wishes.

By all accounts, Anouma tried again with TP and the very concept of a timeline split to better connect OoT with AlttP, but yet again, Miyamoto didn't like the idea. So instead we got what the "official" Timeline said. A threeway timeline split.
 

Androobie

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But Miyamoto vetoed the entire thing, very late into production. In his mind, OoT is the Imprisoning War and the backstory to AlttP, period, end of discussion. So the final released version of FSA rewrote some things, changed some maps around, and positioned itself as a side story in all the marketing. As per Miyamoto's wishes.

By all accounts, Anouma tried again with TP and the very concept of a timeline split to better connect OoT with AlttP, but yet again, Miyamoto didn't like the idea. So instead we got what the "official" Timeline said. A threeway timeline split.
Do you think Anouma could have pulled a Koizumi and snuck it into the final game anyway?
 

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Do you think Anouma could have pulled a Koizumi and snuck it into the final game anyway?
Showing my age a bit here, but for a long time in the timeline theorizing community, even though the story of Miyamoto changing FSA's story was well documented and proven, we still held on to the belief that the game was, in fact, the Imprisoning War, Miyamoto be damned. Because it didn't then, and still doesn't now, make sense any other way, even with the changes made to FSA to make it NOT the Imprisoning War.
 
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