Nickelodeon All-Stars Brawl General Thread - All Star Brawl 2 Available Today!

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

I will say I think it'd be helpful if NASB had, y'know, active socials. Multiversus is constantly making funny posts/card posts/the occasional announcement. Meanwhile NASB hasn't tweeted about NASB since August 5...back when Hugh was released. Pic of the Day type stuff would be great for maintaining engagement

I think a lot of people would rather go "ZOMG SORA AND STEVE IN TEH SAEM GAEM!!!!!111one" than actually play said battles.

I think that's another thing to note too, Nickelodeon has had many crossovers before already and, for whatever reason, I don't think Nickelodeon shows/toons in general are that favored online as well, so NASB became more of the "Spongebob and Avatar fighting game" than "Nicktoons fighting game". Seems to be a generational thing that after a certain point you just stop liking Nickelodeon related stuff and look back on Nickelodeon shows you used to watch with rose tinted glasses (such as people finding something like Sanjay and Craig more grotesque than Ren & Stimpy like, ok). Did y'all know Jimmy Neutron and Spongebob were hated back when they were first revealed/released?

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I've said this many times before, but I feel the NASB backlash was a real wakeup call to me on just how different my vision of Smash is from the general public's - like y'all play these games just to see Mario fight Sephiroth? Not for the gameplay?

You do realize it's possible to have both right?

Ultimate's not only objectively the best balanced game in the series, it's also got the perfect speed and closest gap between casual and competitive. There's a reason it's the most popular. It also just happens to have the greatest roster in gaming.

 

[Guynamednelson]

It also just happens to have the greatest roster in gaming.

Yeah, if you ignore, like, half of the roster. Which I think people who want Everyone Is Here to happen over and over do, since I've seen people who hate the amount of FE reps wanting it.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

It also just happens to have the greatest roster in gaming.

saying a game that chose banjo over master chief as the first xbox rep has the "greatest roster in gaming"

Ultimate's not only objectively the best balanced game in the series

Most balanced, not best balanced. Melee may have a ton of unusable fighters, but the good fighters there bounce off one another way better compared to a game with Hero and Min Min in it.

closest gap between casual and competitive

What does this even mean? You just said that you can have both casual appeal and competitive appeal and then immediately went on to say there's a "gap"?

it's also got the perfect speed

7 frames of input lag. 7 frames.

 

[Guynamednelson]

saying a game that chose banjo over master chief as the first xbox rep has the "greatest roster in gaming"

I think you're trying to force yourself to hate Banjo for no real reason. You prefer Scrimblos over McJRPGs and various other archetypes, you don't want only the biggest, most recent characters to make an appearance, I'd think your opinions on Banjo would be higher than "he's repping xbox wrong even though his fans weren't wanting to rep the xbox in the first place"

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I think you're trying to force yourself to hate Banjo for no real reason. You prefer Scrimblos over McJRPGs and various other archetypes, you don't want only the biggest, most recent characters to make an appearance, I'd think your opinions on Banjo would be higher than "he's repping xbox wrong even though his fans weren't wanting to rep the xbox in the first place"

I have a preferance towards scrimblos, but it isn't as strong as my preferance towards 3rd parties with no Nintendo background, especially from rival platforms. I don't like that Smash fans reduce Microsoft to the "ransom holders" of what is, outside the context of Nintendo, just some random C-list studio they own.

 

[Guynamednelson]

but it isn't as strong as my preferance towards 3rd parties with no Nintendo background, especially from rival platforms.

But apparently none of the newcomers from 4/Ultimate appeal to you except for Pac-Man and K. Rool, both of which have scrimblo traits and the former is a 3rd party with more of a Nintendo background than Cloud and Joker combined, so...are you just trying to have as many unpopular opinions as possible with no consistency?

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

But apparently none of the newcomers from 4/Ultimate appeal to you except for Pac-Man and K. Rool, the former of which is a 3rd party with more of a Nintendo background than Cloud and Joker, so...are you just trying to have as many unpopular opinions as possible with no consistency?

I never said that? I love that Duck Hunt, Bowser Jr, Miis, Wii Fit, Daisy, Plant, and Incineroar are in the game, and I really appreciate picks like Cloud and Steve even if I have no preferance for rhem - I don't mind Smash being mostly Nintendo characters as much as the 3rd party picks themselves being chosen to fit with Nintendo's cast - I just dislike Banjo because he's a representative (the first at that) for Microsoft but also a character solely tied to Nintendo platforms and not Xbox. If Rare had gone indipendent I wouldn't mind him at all, and if Rare were bought out by Activision, EA, or another non-console manufacturer I'd still have an issue but not to the point I'd want to complain.

Also, Pac-Man isn't a character who's entire legacy is tied to Nintendo like Banjo, he's legitimately important outside of the strict niche of "Nintendo fans where were 10 exactly between 1996 and 2001"

If you want to discuss this further, we should do it somewhere else

 

[fogbadge]

I never said that? I love that Duck Hunt, Bowser Jr, Miis, Wii Fit, Daisy, Plant, and Incineroar are in the game, and I really appreciate picks like Cloud and Steve even if I have no preferance for rhem - I don't mind Smash being mostly Nintendo characters as much as the 3rd party picks themselves being chosen to fit with Nintendo's cast - I just dislike Banjo because he's a representative (the first at that) for Microsoft but also a character solely tied to Nintendo and not Xbox. If Rare had gone indipendent I wouldn't mind him at all, and if Rare were bought out by Activision, EA, or another non-console manufacturer I'd still have an issue but not to the point I'd want to complain.

Also, Pac-Man isn't a character who's entire legacy is tied to Nintendo like Banjo, he's legitimately important outside of the strict niche of "Nintendo fans where were 10 exactly between 1996 and 2001"

If you want to discuss this further, we should do it somewhere else

and how do you feel about kazooie?

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I've said this many times before, but I feel the NASB backlash was a real wakeup call to me on just how different my vision of Smash is from the general public's - like y'all play these games just to see Mario fight Sephiroth? Not for the gameplay? You're ASKING for Aang to be a ZONER? I would've thought that "hey look, it's the guy you like, doing the thing they did in the thing you like" novelty wore off for most after the first few rounds. That certainly explains the questionable moveset decisions in modern Smash at least.

I especially don't get the backlash over Jimmy and Timmy's absence - like, I understand being disappointed if you grew up with the Unite games, but not wanting to outright avoid the game just because of it. I've heard people compare it to being like "Smash without Link", but if Smash didn't have Link I also wouldn't get wanting to not play the game just because of it - it's not like Timmy is the Link/Pikachu to SpongeBob's Mario anyway, he certainly had that role at one point but not anymore with Lincoln and the acquisitions around

I get your point, but at the end of the day it's a crossover game and for many people the roster is important. Jimmy and Timmy were huge for people of my generation and I think not having them was a huge misopportunity.

But the thing is even with those characters I think Nasb would have got backslash. Personally my biggest problem with the game is the animation. Let's be real, the game just looks cheap and even with a bigger roster the game would have been heavily criticised. The game has some cool mechanics but I'm going to be honest, if the game had original characters instead of Nickelodeon character I grew up with, I would have sell it after a few games because for the price the game was sold it's really not a game that I would recommend aside from the fact that "haha Garfield can hit Spongebob".

 

[Guynamednelson]

But the thing is even with those characters I think Nasb would have got backslash.

Yes, that's true, but I think in general a lot of people quickly get bored of games, no matter how many years were spent on development, no matter how much content they have, no matter how good the graphics are, no matter how much they try to have mass appeal. Arc System Works' games have tried to achieve the latter with FighterZ onward, but their Steam playercounts would suggest otherwise.

and how do you feel about kazooie?

I thought it would be obvious by now that "Banjo" is used to collectively refer to both.

 

[fogbadge]

Yes, that's true, but I think in general a lot of people quickly get bored of games, no matter how many years were spent on development, no matter how much content they have, no matter how good the graphics are, no matter how much they try to have mass appeal. Arc System Works' games have tried to achieve the latter with FighterZ onward, but their Steam playercounts would suggest otherwise.

I thought it would be obvious by now that "Banjo" is used to collectively refer to both.

and I thought it would be obvious when someone was taking the mick

 

[Ze Diglett]

Ultimate's not only objectively the best balanced game in the series,

Not that that's saying much. There's still a pretty sizable tier gap and anyone who's tried maining Doc or Dedede in Ult can tell you exactly why.

it's also got the perfect speed

If wading through hot sludge is your idea of "the perfect speed", then sure, Ultimate's got that in spades

and closest gap between casual and competitive.

Once again, not saying much.

It also just happens to have the greatest roster in gaming.

Mmm... agree to disagree on that one.

Yes, that's true, but I think in general a lot of people quickly get bored of games, no matter how many years were spent on development, no matter how much content they have, no matter how good the graphics are, no matter how much they try to have mass appeal. Arc System Works' games have tried to achieve the latter with FighterZ onward, but their Steam playercounts would suggest otherwise.

This. Fighting games especially hemorrhage playercounts REALLY quickly compared to other games, and that's not a bad thing. There just aren't a lot of people who want to dedicate themselves to any one game for longer than a few weeks or so. (Also the demanding grind that comes with improving at any fighting game and being forced to face the music when you get your ass kicked by some 300-hour veteran online tends to lose a lot of people, myself included.)

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

I get your point, but at the end of the day it's a crossover game and for many people the roster is important. Jimmy and Timmy were huge for people of my generation and I think not having them was a huge misopportunity.

But the thing is even with those characters I think Nasb would have got backslash. Personally my biggest problem with the game is the animation. Let's be real, the game just looks cheap and even with a bigger roster the game would have been heavily criticised. The game has some cool mechanics but I'm going to be honest, if the game had original characters instead of Nickelodeon character I grew up with, I would have sell it after a few games because for the price the game was sold it's really not a game that I would recommend aside from the fact that "haha Garfield can hit Spongebob".

Well if it had original characters instead of Nick characters it probably would’ve also had way more content outside of pvp and way more dev time for polish looks at Slap City

I’m frankly really tired of the graphics/polish discourse, it’s one thing to not care for how a game plays but there’s no excuse to take issue with graphics/polish for a game you bought/own in 2022 when it’s so easy to look up videos and clips and trailers online for just about anything. I can understand the graphics being a hurdle for purchasing but after getting the game I feel like the chance to take issue with it is over. That’s of course not even mentioning the very clear lack of dev time and resources which account for how NASB currently looks.

I will always attest NASB had such a big shift in favor post launch because impossible expectations were placed upon a game that was barely meeting licensed game expectations

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Well if it had original characters instead of Nick characters it probably would’ve also had way more content outside of pvp and way more dev time for polish looks at Slap City

I’m frankly really tired of the graphics/polish discourse, it’s one thing to not care for how a game plays but there’s no excuse to take issue with graphics/polish for a game you bought/own in 2022 when it’s so easy to look up videos and clips and trailers online for just about anything. I can understand the graphics being a hurdle for purchasing but after getting the game I feel like the chance to take issue with it is over. That’s of course not even mentioning the very clear lack of dev time and resources which account for how NASB currently looks.

I will always attest NASB had such a big shift in favor post launch because impossible expectations were placed upon a game that was barely meeting licensed game expectations

Just because trailer showed the graphics before launch doesn't mean that I can't criticize them. And I know that the budget was small, but the game was still sold at the price of a AAA game so it's fair to except AAA graphics.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

Just because trailer showed the graphics before launch doesn't mean that I can't criticize them. And I know that the budget was small, but the game was still sold at the price of a AAA game so it's fair to except AAA graphics.

well I don't see much point entertaining this with a response, I already addressed everything you said here

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Yeah, if you ignore, like, half of the roster. Which I think people who want Everyone Is Here to happen over and over do, since I've seen people who hate the amount of FE reps wanting it.

Oh well? You have Sora, Joker, Mario, Banjo, Bayonetta, Link, Pikachu all in the same game? Not everyone has to be an A-lister character,

Most balanced, not best balanced. Melee may have a ton of unusable fighters, but the good fighters there bounce off one another way better compared to a game with Hero and Min Min in it.


What does this even mean? You just said that you can have both casual appeal and competitive appeal and then immediately went on to say there's a "gap"?


7 frames of input lag. 7 frames.

Most balanced is the best form of balance, objectively. If the top tiers and bottom tiers aren't that far apart then you aren't alienating people who play either set much. Anyone who says Melee is better at balancing is nostalgia-blinded.

And yes, there is a gap, stop nitpicking. There will always be some level of gap, as there is no foolproof way of making a fighting game not have any skill gap unless every character is completely identical. Yes, there is a gap between casual and competitive, but the game is best at appealing to both audiences because it's designed with the intent of pleasing both sides as much as possible.

Not that that's saying much. There's still a pretty sizable tier gap and anyone who's tried maining Doc or Dedede in Ult can tell you exactly why.

If wading through hot sludge is your idea of "the perfect speed", then sure, Ultimate's got that in spades

Once again, not saying much.

Mmm... agree to disagree on that one.

This. Fighting games especially hemorrhage playercounts REALLY quickly compared to other games, and that's not a bad thing. There just aren't a lot of people who want to dedicate themselves to any one game for longer than a few weeks or so. (Also the demanding grind that comes with improving at any fighting game and being forced to face the music when you get your ass kicked by some 300-hour veteran online tends to lose a lot of people, myself included.)

Wading through sludge? The **** are you even talking about? That's Brawl.

It seems to me like ya'll just hate popular stuff because it's popular. Stop glorifying niche just because it's niche, that doesn't mean it's good.

 

[dlewis53]

I'm with GaminGryff; I don't know what you guys are talking about saying that Ultimate is as slow as you're implying. The game still feels pretty fast (even if it's not Melee-fast), and I haven't had any input lag (unless you're referring to Online, which I don't play that much).

And yeah, I think the roster's fantastic; every character feels unique and fun to play as (non-Ken Echo Fighters aside), and yes, that includes the Fire Emblem characters.

Anyways, in other platform fighter stuff, I've been playing Slap City, and I'm enjoying it a good deal despite knowing absolutely nothing about any of the games and characters involved; in particular, I love how colorful and charming the cast is, and some of the lines in both story mode and the victory quotes got some good chuckles out of me.

...Though it does serve to make me even more pissed at Nickelodeon for restricting Ludosity so much and not allowing original dialogue for the characters. Hell, I would've been happy if we just got victory quotes, but nope.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

I agree with Wario x 3 that the best fighting game rosters are the ones where the cast best compliments each other. Smash Ultimate is the largest and most impressive, but I'd be hard pressed to say it's the best on this metric.

But like, yeah, I'm certainly not jumping to Melee having the better roster. If we really wanted to base what a best fighting game roster is, then I don't think any Smash game is eligible for their own individual reasons nor do I think NASB or MVS are. My personal pick for best fighting game roster (at least from somewhat modern games) would probably be Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3, good variety and generally solid balance across the cast

Anyways, in other platform fighter stuff, I've been playing Slap City, and I'm enjoying it a good deal despite knowing absolutely nothing about any of the games and characters involved; in particular, I love how colorful and charming the cast is, and some of the lines in both story mode and the victory quotes got some good chuckles out of me.

...Though it does serve to make me even more pissed at Nickelodeon for restricting Ludosity so much and not allowing original dialogue for the characters. Hell, I would've been happy if we just got victory quotes, but nope.

I would not have been so on board with NASB from the start if I didn't already know about the quality of Slap City. I would've personally been ok with an alternate reality where NASB launches with like 12 characters if it means we get the content Slap City got at launch but alas maybe in the sequel a few years from now

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I agree with Wario x 3 that the best fighting game rosters are the ones where the cast best compliments each other. Smash Ultimate is the largest and most impressive, but I'd be hard pressed to say it's the best on this metric.

But like, yeah, I'm certainly not jumping to Melee having the better roster. If we really wanted to base what a best fighting game roster is, then I don't think any Smash game is eligible for their own individual reasons nor do I think NASB or MVS are. My personal pick for best fighting game roster (at least from somewhat modern games) would probably be Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3, good variety and generally solid balance across the cast


I would not have been so on board with NASB from the start if I didn't already know about the quality of Slap City. I would've personally been ok with an alternate reality where NASB launches with like 12 characters if it means we get the content Slap City got at launch but alas maybe in the sequel a few years from now

I'm willing to agree to disagree on Ultimate's roster being the best, but I would like to know why you don't think Smash's cast compliment each other? I think that it does it pretty well.

 

[LimeTH]

like y'all play these games just to see Mario fight Sephiroth? Not for the gameplay?

It can't be both ways? Like yeah the gameplay is important and Smash wouldn't be where it is without it, but sometimes it's fun to see Sonic punch Donkey Kong in the face, and Smash wouldn't be where it is without that either.

 

[AinsOoalGown]

Yeah, if you ignore, like, half of the roster. Which I think people who want Everyone Is Here to happen over and over do, since I've seen people who hate the amount of FE reps wanting it.

No, the roster is objectively pretty good, you dont need to "ignore" the half you dont personally know because the world isnt actually made just for you, the consensus is always about how good the roster is and one can accept it even if they dont personally get every single spot just for themselves, specially vile complaint when its about having "more" than what you want, specially when it didnt hurt variety nor balance, the 2 things that would be at risk with the size increase

saying a game that chose banjo over master chief as the first xbox rep has the "greatest roster in gaming"

Most balanced, not best balanced. Melee may have a ton of unusable fighters, but the good fighters there bounce off one another way better compared to a game with Hero and Min Min in it.


What does this even mean? You just said that you can have both casual appeal and competitive appeal and then immediately went on to say there's a "gap"?


7 frames of input lag. 7 frames.

Attacking Banjo as a bad choice despite the massive fan demand and historic importance is sweet from someone who downplays CLASSICS like Fairly Oddparents and Jimmy Neutron solely to market an alternate game solely to attack Smash over not picking your specific choices (and creates a toxic environment that guarantees people will stay away from both this game and speculation sites, you have no idea how much of a turn off your kind of behavior is to casual fans and newcomers) not to mention how it ignores the high variety the roster has: classics, recent icons, good moveset, historic importance, everything plays a role in some of the choices here or there, making it a 10/10 roster to the horror of anyone hoping for its failure that never came.

Also that comment about the gap is clearly about how it appeals to both, without having a sterile moveset like certain games but still having space to comp. which I agree, another reason why Ultimate did so well.

Ultimate has the most balance AND the best baanced, another game having only 4 useable characters doesnt make it better just because it isnt in your "must hate" list. Also you can invent things about its balancing or mechanics but the consensus and the high amount of playability Ultimate still gets proves otherwise, its a masterpiece of its genre, and that goes beyond having good characters: godly movesets, presentation, balancing, lots of effort were needed to create a Masterpiece like Smash.

Wading through sludge? The **** are you even talking about? That's Brawl.

It seems to me like ya'll just hate popular stuff because it's popular. Stop glorifying niche just because it's niche, that doesn't mean it's good.

They are pretty much not smash fans at all nor people who ever even played it despite obsessing with rosters: Ultimate has the best roster and balancing around, neither are up to discussion just because it isnt "specific" some random american fan's exact dream game, no other game neither in the series or genre comes closer yet but because one specific scrimblo wasnt in or some very small feature is not Exactly how a specific person decided they should be they will go for years unironically complaining about such large and varied roster, trying to downplay it by comparing it to rosters that are nothing like it, making up stuff about its fans and design and how "they actually dont care about playing the game" while not playing the game itself even though Ulti is STILL highly played, trying to convince (without success) how the biggest gift the fans ever got is secretly bad for "insert nonsense non-argument" or trying to nitpick its extremely well chosen mechanics and characters despite we even knowing, thanks to interviews and articles, how and why they were made, and all the game design thats needed to make such quality game. They also dont realize how much of a turn off to casuals this behavior is, I legit know people who rightfully avoided the "options" when they saw how malicious its ""fans"" were acting (more like angry ex-gfs about the other game they dont play actually)

now instead of moving on they hold to the grudge obsessing with rosters that will never be made true or dont make sense other than satisfying some quirky personal vendeta against a real game, like a second string supervillain thinking they will finally defeat the main guy after years of failing despite being humiliated over and over, all over some minor slight.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

I'm willing to agree to disagree on Ultimate's roster being the best, but I would like to know why you don't think Smash's cast compliment each other? I think that it does it pretty well.

I view it more as an inevitability when you're getting into 30+ character casts, especially due to the amount of characters in Smash Ultimate in particular that are semi-clones/full on clones of each other. So when I say compliment I mean it solely from a fighting game perspective, like in SF3 the gameplay styles of each character in that cast are meant to act in opposition to each other, this archetype is good against that archetype but bad against that archetype and so on, while in Smash there are a good amount of characters that are like that, but a handful of stragglers are either too derivative of other characters or just too off the wall/specific to Smash to function like typical fighting game characters (this would be the playing their own game characters like Steve)

of course that's only a matter of opinion though and it only applies to Ultimate. Melee's cast is like 1/4th clones, Brawl and Smash 4 have Meta Knight and Bayo/Cloud respectively and Smash 64 just isn't fleshed out enough as a fighting game for it to fit I think (pretty much every character can one hit true combo any other character if done correctly right?)

It can't be both ways? Like yeah the gameplay is important and Smash wouldn't be where it is without it, but sometimes it's fun to see Sonic punch Donkey Kong in the face, and Smash wouldn't be where it is without that either.

I could've swore this was the driving force for why we got Duck Hunt in the game. Everyone's always wanted to fight/shoot the dog, now you can!

They are pretty much not smash fans at all nor people who ever even played it despite obsessing with rosters: Ultimate has the best roster and balancing around, neither are up to discussion just because it isnt "specific" some random american fan's exact dream game, no other game neither in the series or genre comes closer yet but because one specific scrimblo wasnt in or some very small feature is not Exactly how a specific person decided they should be they will go for years unironically complaining about such large and varied roster, trying to downplay it by comparing it to rosters that are nothing like it, making up stuff about its fans and design and how "they actually dont care about playing the game" while not playing the game itself even though Ulti is STILL highly played, trying to convince (without success) how the biggest gift the fans ever got is secretly bad for "insert nonsense non-argument" or trying to nitpick its extremely well chosen mechanics and characters despite we even knowing, thanks to interviews and articles, how and why they were made, and all the game design thats needed to make such quality game. They also dont realize how much of a turn off to casuals this behavior is, I legit know people who rightfully avoided the "options" when they saw how malicious its ""fans"" were acting (more like angry ex-gfs about the other game they dont play actually)

now instead of moving on they hold to the grudge obsessing with rosters that will never be made true or dont make sense other than satisfying some quirky personal vendeta against a real game, like a second string supervillain thinking they will finally defeat the main guy after years of failing despite being humiliated over and over, all over some minor slight.

if I may

I had been growing more and more disinterested in Ultimate as time went on circa 2021, Kazuya had just been added (was kind of a pipe dream pick tbh) and I really enjoyed playing as him but quickly remembered why I'd been playing Smash on and off since the release of Steve, and it basically just amounted to me wanting a faster paced platform fighter with characters I recognized. I can fully acknowledge that Ultimate is a very well thought out game in so many aspects beyond what I'll ever be able to comprehend but I was ready for something new and NASB offered that. I tried and fell in love with Slap City before NASB's release and the rest is kinda history

But this is also exactly why I'm not fond of trend chasers. Most of the trend chasers are likely the people you're describing, whiny fans that wanted to stick it to anti competitive Nintendo. When NASB didn't meet their expectations, they moved on to MVS

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I view it more as an inevitability when you're getting into 30+ character casts, especially due to the amount of characters in Smash Ultimate in particular that are semi-clones/full on clones of each other. So when I say compliment I mean it solely from a fighting game perspective, like in SF3 the gameplay styles of each character in that cast are meant to act in opposition to each other, this archetype is good against that archetype but bad against that archetype and so on, while in Smash there are a good amount of characters that are like that, but a handful of stragglers are either too derivative of other characters or just too off the wall/specific to Smash to function like typical fighting game characters (this would be the playing their own game characters like Steve)

of course that's only a matter of opinion though and it only applies to Ultimate. Melee's cast is like 1/4th clones, Brawl and Smash 4 have Meta Knight and Bayo/Cloud respectively and Smash 64 just isn't fleshed out enough as a fighting game for it to fit I think (pretty much every character can one hit true combo any other character if done correctly right?)


I could've swore this was the driving force for why we got Duck Hunt in the game. Everyone's always wanted to fight/shoot the dog, now you can!

I personally think you're taking the fighting game part a little too literally; Smash doesn't have the same general ebb and flow that a game like Street Fighter, or hell, even a game with a similar "X counters Y who counters Z" game like TF2; it just can't since it's only half of a fighting game, or two-thirds, and with the simplicity of giving everyone the same control scheme you just can't build the game the same way.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

I personally think you're taking the fighting game part a little too literally; Smash doesn't have the same general ebb and flow that a game like Street Fighter, or hell, even a game with a similar "X counters Y who counters Z" game like TF2; it just can't since it's only half of a fighting game, or two-thirds, and with the simplicity of giving everyone the same control scheme you just can't build the game the same way.

yeah I agree with you, it's because I agree with you that I think it's hard to determine what makes a best platform fighting game roster ig. if I had to pick best platform fighting game roster then, idk, Rivals maybe?

 

[Ze Diglett]

It seems to me like ya'll just hate popular stuff because it's popular. Stop glorifying niche just because it's niche, that doesn't mean it's good.

You're talking to someone whose name and avatar literally come from the BIGGEST MEDIA FRANCHISE IN THE WORLD. Really think about what you're saying here.

Ultimate has the most balance AND the best baanced, another game having only 4 useable characters doesnt make it better just because it isnt in your "must hate" list.

I swear people who've never touched Melee keep driving the number of "viable" characters down every few years. A couple years ago there were only 5 viable characters in Melee, before that there were 6. At this rate, by the year 2034 there will be 0 viable characters in Melee!

They are pretty much not smash fans at all nor people who ever even played it despite obsessing with rosters: Ultimate has the best roster and balancing around, neither are up to discussion just because it isnt "specific" some random american fan's exact dream game, no other game neither in the series or genre comes closer yet but because one specific scrimblo wasnt in or some very small feature is not Exactly how a specific person decided they should be they will go for years unironically complaining about such large and varied roster, trying to downplay it by comparing it to rosters that are nothing like it, making up stuff about its fans and design and how "they actually dont care about playing the game" while not playing the game itself even though Ulti is STILL highly played, trying to convince (without success) how the biggest gift the fans ever got is secretly bad for "insert nonsense non-argument" or trying to nitpick its extremely well chosen mechanics and characters despite we even knowing, thanks to interviews and articles, how and why they were made, and all the game design thats needed to make such quality game. They also dont realize how much of a turn off to casuals this behavior is, I legit know people who rightfully avoided the "options" when they saw how malicious its ""fans"" were acting (more like angry ex-gfs about the other game they dont play actually)

now instead of moving on they hold to the grudge obsessing with rosters that will never be made true or dont make sense other than satisfying some quirky personal vendeta against a real game, like a second string supervillain thinking they will finally defeat the main guy after years of failing despite being humiliated over and over, all over some minor slight.

Lol. I don't actually care much about the roster at all, I stopped paying attention around FP2 when I realized I'd grown out of the hype culture and was interested in playing other things by then. The main issue I take with Smash is the "extremely well chosen" mechanics, which I could go in-depth on, but have already done so in this thread and elsewhere and I have a feeling you won't be hearing any of that anyway.
But sure, keep strawmanning us as supervillains and see how far that gets you.

 

[Baysha]

No, the roster is objectively pretty good, you dont need to "ignore" the half you dont personally know because the world isnt actually made just for you, the consensus is always about how good the roster is and one can accept it even if they dont personally get every single spot just for themselves, specially vile complaint when its about having "more" than what you want, specially when it didnt hurt variety nor balance, the 2 things that would be at risk with the size increase



Attacking Banjo as a bad choice despite the massive fan demand and historic importance is sweet from someone who downplays CLASSICS like Fairly Oddparents and Jimmy Neutron solely to market an alternate game solely to attack Smash over not picking your specific choices (and creates a toxic environment that guarantees people will stay away from both this game and speculation sites, you have no idea how much of a turn off your kind of behavior is to casual fans and newcomers) not to mention how it ignores the high variety the roster has: classics, recent icons, good moveset, historic importance, everything plays a role in some of the choices here or there, making it a 10/10 roster to the horror of anyone hoping for its failure that never came.

Also that comment about the gap is clearly about how it appeals to both, without having a sterile moveset like certain games but still having space to comp. which I agree, another reason why Ultimate did so well.

Ultimate has the most balance AND the best baanced, another game having only 4 useable characters doesnt make it better just because it isnt in your "must hate" list. Also you can invent things about its balancing or mechanics but the consensus and the high amount of playability Ultimate still gets proves otherwise, its a masterpiece of its genre, and that goes beyond having good characters: godly movesets, presentation, balancing, lots of effort were needed to create a Masterpiece like Smash.



They are pretty much not smash fans at all nor people who ever even played it despite obsessing with rosters: Ultimate has the best roster and balancing around, neither are up to discussion just because it isnt "specific" some random american fan's exact dream game, no other game neither in the series or genre comes closer yet but because one specific scrimblo wasnt in or some very small feature is not Exactly how a specific person decided they should be they will go for years unironically complaining about such large and varied roster, trying to downplay it by comparing it to rosters that are nothing like it, making up stuff about its fans and design and how "they actually dont care about playing the game" while not playing the game itself even though Ulti is STILL highly played, trying to convince (without success) how the biggest gift the fans ever got is secretly bad for "insert nonsense non-argument" or trying to nitpick its extremely well chosen mechanics and characters despite we even knowing, thanks to interviews and articles, how and why they were made, and all the game design thats needed to make such quality game. They also dont realize how much of a turn off to casuals this behavior is, I legit know people who rightfully avoided the "options" when they saw how malicious its ""fans"" were acting (more like angry ex-gfs about the other game they dont play actually)

now instead of moving on they hold to the grudge obsessing with rosters that will never be made true or dont make sense other than satisfying some quirky personal vendeta against a real game, like a second string supervillain thinking they will finally defeat the main guy after years of failing despite being humiliated over and over, all over some minor slight.

I feel like you're not really arguing as much as saying "my opinion is objectively correct" and saying that anyone who disagrees with you must have some weird vendetta and not just have a different opinion.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Honestly, did some of you expect this game to not attract people dissatisfied with Smash? It goes deeper into Melee-esque gameplay instead of the kinda-sorta-not-really-Melee-ish gameplay of Ultimate, and its roster is more willing to add risky characters than banish them to the Assist Trophy realm.

 

[LimeTH]

Boy, I hope Rocko comes out soon.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Oh god, what have I done. Uhh...

Hey guys, look at these very funny images! They'll make you chortle and LOL!

 

[fogbadge]

If I ask what everyone’s talking about will I regret it?

 

[Guynamednelson]

If I ask what everyone’s talking about will I regret it?

No, we're just talking about, uh...

how Walter White kinda-sorta-not-really qualifies for this game too

 

[RileyXY1]

Boy, I hope Rocko comes out soon.

I believe that he's coming in October.

 

[Geoffrey Druyts]

le funny turtles

The whole @TMNT gang is here! Mikey, Leo and Donnie join Raph in Nickelodeon Kart Racers 3: Slime Speedway on October 14th!

Congrats to the lucky 3 winners of Monday's giveaway who guessed this butt-kickin' trio!#NickKartRacers #SlimeSpeedway pic.twitter.com/MWRPanSnn7

— Nickelodeon Kart Racers (@NickKartRacers) September 30, 2022

 

[Deleted member]

le funny turtles

The whole @TMNT gang is here! Mikey, Leo and Donnie join Raph in Nickelodeon Kart Racers 3: Slime Speedway on October 14th!

Congrats to the lucky 3 winners of Monday's giveaway who guessed this butt-kickin' trio!#NickKartRacers #SlimeSpeedway pic.twitter.com/MWRPanSnn7

— Nickelodeon Kart Racers (@NickKartRacers) September 30, 2022

No "we'll be back on Monday."

 

[Geoffrey Druyts]

No "we'll be back on Monday." They'll probably sti do one though.

So no giveaway for Tommy and Angelica (and "Squidina")?

Oh well, I guess they'll get revealed soonish enough.

Edit: The site has finally been updated.

 

[Guynamednelson]

No "we'll be back on Monday."

They're revealing more Garfield content, can't do that on Monday

 

[Fields - Ultimate's Great]

Saw the discussion, it's pretty obvious why NASB got backlash. It just didn't do anything to appeal to anyone and priorities were a mess. Doesn't help how slow the updates are from a team notoriously slow and bad at handling balance updates quick (an issue carried over from Slap City).

 

[fogbadge]

They're revealing more Garfield content, can't do that on Monday

maybe if it's a splut

 

[Guynamednelson]

It just didn't do anything to appeal to anyone

Well of course that'd be impossible when the majority is solely used to Smash and how massive its roster has gotten, without considering all the factors that were necessary to make Everyone Is Here a possibility.