• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Geno Boost

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
3,916
Location
Star Hill. Why do you ask?
i think the issue about Zoroark is the whole concept about him in the first place he was created only to be given the illusion ability and i dont see it how would it serve any purpose in a fighting game they didnt even add him to pokken
overall Zoroark is perfect for RPGs but not in fighting games
 
Last edited:

Dinoman96

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
3,155
Just as long as Virdi isn't made a slapdash Palutena echo, I'm pretty happy.

VIRIDI DESERVED AND STILL DESERVES!
With all due respect, and I say this as someone quite likes Viridi (as well as every other KIU character), I personally feel like being a slapdash Palutena echo is honestly probably more than she deserves at this point lol. Being a tertiary supporting character who only appeared in one game from 10 years ago that clearly isn't getting a sequel/follow up.

Though I suppose the problem is that she can't exactly even be an "echo fighter" in the traditional sense due to having a totally different skeleton from Palu, at best she'd have to be a smaller semi-clone ala Toon Link.
 
Last edited:

fogbadge

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
17,474
Location
Scotland
i think the issue about Zoroark is the whole concept about him in the first place he was created only to be given the illusion ability and i dont see it how would it serve any purpose in a fighting game they didnt even add him to pokken
overall Zoroark is perfect for RPGs but not in fighting games
illusionists have appeared in fighting games before
 

Pink Yoshi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 17, 2022
Messages
486
Location
The kitchen, raiding the fridge
With all due respect, and I say this as someone quite likes Viridi (as well as every other KIU character), I personally feel like being a slapdash Palutena echo is honestly probably more than she deserves at this point lol. Being a tertiary supporting character who only appeared in one game from 10 years ago that clearly isn't getting a sequel/follow up.

Though I suppose the problem is that she can't exactly even be an "echo fighter" in the traditional sense due to having a totally different skeleton from Palu, at best she'd have to be a smaller semi-clone ala Toon Link.
It's kind of a royal shame what's happened to Kid Icarus since Uprising's release. Right after it gets remembered, it gets forgotten AGAIN. My big pipe dream is that Sakurai, after resting from Smash Ultimate, will use the non-Smash opportunity to create a KI:U sequel.

That said, I feel Viridi's a bit more than just "tertiary". She's certainly major enough to earn a spot in Palutena's Guidance, has huge exposure from her debut chapter onwards, and quite frankly
saved Pit's ass when Palutena was possessed by the Chaos Kin

At the end of the day I think Viridi deserves a spot. Maybe it's bias on my part since I adore her as a character, but just like how Bandana Dee would complete the main Kirby four, Viridi would complete the main KI:U four (as shown in Palutena's Guidance).

As for her moveset...I have a few ideas. We have her weapons, the Viridi Palm and Viridi Claws, for neutral Bs and jabs/tilts. Perhaps she can use her mighty staff as a golf club in her smash attacks (that'd be hilarious). Maybe she could be carried by her Nutskis for her up-B Olimar-style. Maybe even let loose a Bumpety Bomb (kinda like Link's Remote Bomb, but with legs) for her down-B. And of course we gotta have the Reset Bomb for her Final Smash!
 
Last edited:

Sucumbio

Smash Giant
Moderator
Writing Team
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
6,910
Location
Icerim Mountains
So many 3 character franchises... I start getting dizzy when I think about all the shuffle puck we could play with them. Other fighting games had 100 percent original rosters but Smash used non fighting game characters from their giant store house of faces and revolutionized the genre not even considering the whole plat format. It led to Yoda in Soul Calibur! I mean basically I support people supporting any character.

But if we're strictly being rational, sure I suppose Kid Icarus is lucky to even have 3 seeing as Dark Pit is an echo. I get it but I don't have to like it..

 

Gengar84

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
3,295
i think the issue about Zoroark is the whole concept about him in the first place he was created only to be given the illusion ability and i dont see it how would it serve any purpose in a fighting game they didnt even add him to pokken
overall Zoroark is perfect for RPGs but not in fighting games
I don’t think you have to directly translate Zoroark’s illusion ability as it works in the mainline games into Smash. There are a few other ways you could represent the general idea of illusions and trickery without having to be so literal with Pokemon’s mechanic’s. One idea you could go with is what Delzethin covered in his video where Zoroark summons shadowy projections and illusory copies of himself to perform certain attacks. Think Ganondorf’s attack’s in Hyrule Warriors for the former and Lucario’s Smash counter for the latter. Another idea is you could reference the movie it debuted in and have it temporarily transform into one of the Johto legendary beasts for a few of its moves. That would still get the general idea across while not having to worry about complicated mechanics.
 

Stratos

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
523
A stage or spirits from Sky Skipper in future games of Super Smash Bros. series? Maybe yes or maybe no.
 

MBRedboy31

Smash Lord
Joined
May 5, 2018
Messages
1,369
i think the issue about Zoroark is the whole concept about him in the first place he was created only to be given the illusion ability and i dont see it how would it serve any purpose in a fighting game they didnt even add him to pokken
overall Zoroark is perfect for RPGs but not in fighting games
They could maybe make it be like Arya Stark‘s face-stealing ability in Multiversus, where you can briefly turn into your opponent’s character to use some of their normals (or their taunts.) That’s not exactly the same as it works in Pokémon, but it would still involve some trickery, as your opponent would need to avoid being confused by there being two of their character on the screen, especially if it’s a chaotic multiplayer FFA. It would also give it a very large variety of combos, as it’d have some different normals depending on the opponent’s character.
 

osby

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
22,026
i think the issue about Zoroark is the whole concept about him in the first place he was created only to be given the illusion ability and i dont see it how would it serve any purpose in a fighting game they didnt even add him to pokken
overall Zoroark is perfect for RPGs but not in fighting games
Didn't Delzethin make a whole video about how he'd work in Smash?

I think a fakeout-focused moveset with a focus on tricky animations and non-telegraphed movement options would reflect his skills well without breaking Smash's restrictions.
 

Sucumbio

Smash Giant
Moderator
Writing Team
Joined
Oct 7, 2008
Messages
6,910
Location
Icerim Mountains
Yeah I think he'd be amazing actually... Imagine moves like a special where he vanishes and then both forms appear one in front one behind but only one has a hurtbox. Stuff like that.


I love this whole video but he's at 7:32

They'd be silly not to at least use
these designs when considering an upgrade just like with ATs...

If they want to be lazy they can make a wolf clone for his normals and a Mewtwo clone for his specials.

Wait did someone already say that?
 
Last edited:

JOJONumber691

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 28, 2020
Messages
1,561
It would be great retro rep just like :ultgnw::ulticeclimbers::ultrob::ultduckhunt: but smash ultimate skipped having new retro rep also the fact that pro wrestling rep can be 6 characters in one just like Koopalings which is why I see them as a better wrestler representation compared to :ultincineroar:
I have a feeling K. Rool was supposed to be the Retro Rep this time around. That and I think there's probably some legal mandate that every Smash game must include a Pokemon from the latest generation. But still Incineroar could've had his role taken up by Fighter Hayabusa or Starman, they could've started development earlier, and then the Legal Mandate Pokemon could've been someone more unique like Decidueye, Primarina, or Lycanroc. But the fact that Incineroar is as plain as they are makes me think they were limited in the time department with Incineroar, especially since some sources say he was decided after Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon. I wish we got a proper, non-Fan Favorite, Retro Character though since those tend to be some of Smash's Best Designs EASY!
 

Arcanir

An old friend evolved
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Messages
6,361
Location
Getting geared up for the 20th
NNID
Shoryu91
3DS FC
4253-4855-5860
There isn't really a proper recurring 'retro slot'. It was only truly done once with the Ice Climbers, and the rest that get included in that web like Mr. Game and Watch, ROB, and DH are actually called 'surprise characters' officially in the project plan. For Ultimate, that slot went to Piranha Plant instead so it's very unlikely that the Wrestler was ever considered.
 

Nabbitfan730

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 15, 2020
Messages
213
Well guys, Multiversus has been out for quite a while and a lot of takes have come out even comparing them to Smash Bros.

Any thoughts on it? Have most of you guys try out Multiversus?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet
 

Gengar84

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
3,295
Well guys, Multiversus has been out for quite a while and a lot of takes have come out even comparing them to Smash Bros.

Any thoughts on it? Have most of you guys try out Multiversus?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet
I haven’t played it mostly because I’m purely a casual player who kind of sucks at games. Multiverses seems catered to the hardcore competitive community so I don’t think there would be much for me to do in it. I feel like if I tried to play online, I would just lose nonstop. The game looks cool and I like the art style for the characters.

It looks a lot better than Nick All Stars in my opinion. I’m still a bit bummed that the TMNT are stuck in that game and with Nickelodeon in general. I’ve never really been a fan of Nickelodeon’s other properties but TMNT have been my favorite franchise for my whole life.
 
Last edited:

SPEN18

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 1, 2018
Messages
1,102
Location
MI, USA
We could declone them, sure. I'd personally make Chrom and Lucina fall under one character, have them Echo each other as they already have the same class in Awakening anyway. Rebrand them to be the Marth semi clone, if there's room for Roy to be a clone of them, add him back in too (even if he has just one unique move, the Flare Blade).

I actually agree with the part about Marth and the tipper and how it represents Fire Emblem. But purely Smash gameplay related, Lucina is a wonderful Echo, because the removal of the tipper makes for a drastic different fighting style. Speaking of representative of her overall character? It's bad.
If you declone them, though, then that's even more resources for one-offs from the same entry in a series where like every other entry features a totally different cast.
The thing is that, with the string of successful FE games featuring different main characters, including all of them and re-dipping from the same game only get harder to justify. It just goes back to the sustainability issue and the reality that FE, as much as it's been one of my favorite series on the roster over the years, is not a Mario- or even Zelda-level franchise.

And the tipper for me is also a gameplay issue since it conflicts IMO with the original concept of that moveset, as I tried to explain. That wouldn't be a reason to get rid of Lucina, though; I would just like it to be at least rebalanced in some way if Lucina were to come back (or just let Lucina be a straighter copy of Marth).

As for cutting Robin, Corrin, and Roy before the Echoes: I feel that Roy and Chrom might end up a package deal, though that's not necessarily set in stone. You could argue for Roy to be the first FE cut, though, yeah. IF Robin were to be cut, then yeah you could probably try to justify one or both of Lucina/Chrom since then it would only be two reps from the same game; it would just be odd to not give Awakening a unique slot. One of Lucina/Chrom could be made more unique to compensate if Robin were cut (I think we had this discussion earlier), but it's probably unlikely since it would be going against Sakurai's original judgment when adding Awakening reps for 4 (remember that he was committed to a unique slot for the game and thought Robin did the job better than Chrom or Lucina). Corrin, yeah, there is a good argument for him/her being the first FE cut but as I detailed earlier it's not without some counterargument.

--

I don't think the low effort moniker is worthy anymore if what info earlier presented holds (70 percent effort for wolf and I'm guessing that ballpark for Smash 4 Roy etc al +/- 10%)
Yeah I should have said "lower-effort" instead of "low-effort." That's one of the things I'm trying to present: that even the Echoes are not completely trivial additions, especially ones like Chrom or Lucina with different gameplay variations that could tilt the balancing. Otherwise I feel like we'd have even more of them than we do now. And with semiclones, you can forget about them being "easy" additions altogether if the number really is up there around 70%.
 

LiveStudioAudience

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
3,144
Well guys, Multiversus has been out for quite a while and a lot of takes have come out even comparing them to Smash Bros.

Any thoughts on it? Have most of you guys try out Multiversus?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet
Calling anything the insert franchise here killer is rarely a good idea because if sells less than the well known game, it (and some fans) look bad and even if it does outsell the title its a rival with, that sort of hype can still potentially turn off fans that actually like Smash/Pokemon/GTA/whatever and are put off by another release trying to compete so aggressively with it.
 
Last edited:

chocolatejr9

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
7,297
Well guys, Multiversus has been out for quite a while and a lot of takes have come out even comparing them to Smash Bros.

Any thoughts on it? Have most of you guys try out Multiversus?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet
Oh PLEASE: people thought NASB would kill Smash for all the same reasons, and look how THAT turned out.
 

Quillion

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,591
Well guys, Multiversus has been out for quite a while and a lot of takes have come out even comparing them to Smash Bros.

Any thoughts on it? Have most of you guys try out Multiversus?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet
Multiversus will coexist with Smash as a knockback platform fighter, it will not be a killer competitively or casually.

That said, character interactions would be sweet for Smash, but that'll probably be limited to the "special team victory poses" I really want.
 

SPEN18

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 1, 2018
Messages
1,102
Location
MI, USA
Unlike some people, I never had this seething hatred for clones. If anything, I embrace them. People tend to have this unrealistic expectation of clones stealing slots, when they take substantially less work.
Thinking that clones were stealing spots from uniques was a widespread idea before, but it seems basically put to rest now. I (along with most people) support clones and asset reuse in particular cases; I just have a more limited view of the number and kinds of potential clones that are worth the expended effort and also represent the character well.

The lingering hatred for clones emerged in a post melee environment, when 6/13 newcomers were clones in some way shape or form. Nowadays, when you have such a large, diverse roster, a few last minute clones on top is not the end of the world.
The thing is that with EiH in the picture it was definitely not just "a few last minute clones on top" for Ult. It was a momentous effort to bring back every single ditched semiclone from the past. And on top of that, cloning (including the Echo branding) was part of the effort to work around the high development strain and reduced newcomer selection brought on by EiH.

In smash 4 for instance, the alternative to having Lucina and Dark pit was not getting your most wanted dream pick in the game: it was not getting Lucina and dark pit.
Maybe, but not necessarily. And certainly not necessarily going forward. What if, for example, they had taken all the work they did on Lucina and decided to use it on giving Alph a few different mechanics instead? Depending on who you are you may have preferred that.
 

smashkirby

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 15, 2014
Messages
6,640
Location
North Carolina
I'm still blown away by how easy it was to win over this fanbase with clones by just calling them echoes.

Y'all must be putty in the hands of good salespeople, lol.
Unlike some people, I never had this seething hatred for clones. If anything, I embrace them. People tend to have this unrealistic expectation of clones stealing slots, when they take substantially less work. I swear a large part of this vendetta against clones that some people used to have came from that sort of view. In smash 4 for instance, the alternative to having Lucina and Dark pit was not getting your most wanted dream pick in the game: it was not getting Lucina and dark pit. I feel as well that the larger the roster gets and the game gets, the less controversial clones become. The lingering hatred for clones emerged in a post melee environment, when 6/13 newcomers were clones in some way shape or form. Nowadays, when you have such a large, diverse roster, a few last minute clones on top is not the end of the world. It also helps that with Ultimate bringing in so many people, clones don’t have that same stigma they had in the old days.

If a clone is done right, like a Melee Falco or an Ultimate Lucina, Chrom, or Ken, they are awesome additions. I love seeing the subtle differences that make the kit mesh differently. If anything, I wish they would go further with the echo concept in the future. Obviously I want more Chroms and less Daisys if that makes sense, but honestly simple small tweaks, even if it is just sharing a move with a different fighter like with Chrom, goes a long way. I’d love to see a Shadow echo fighter with a Mewtwo Up B for instance.
Honestly, as someone who never minded clones, it absolutely blew my mind (and even sort of irritated me, if I'm being completely honest) how quickly the fanbase seemed to be swayed once Smash finally gave such characters a label.

Like, a LABEL? THAT'S all it took for people to (mostly) stop 'demonizing' clone characters? Heck, this seems to have led to most folks even SUGGESTING clones that could be potentially added.

Semi-unrelated note, but I still feel bad that Alph wasn't promoted to being an Echo (or at the very least, wasn't able to get the Cloud (Advent Children) treatment).
 
Last edited:

Quillion

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,591
Honestly, as someone who never minded clones, it absolutely blew my mind (and even sort of irritated me, if I'm being completely honest) how quickly the fanbase seemed to be swayed once Smash finally gave such characters a label.

Like, a LABEL? THAT'S all it took for people to (mostly) stop 'demonizing' clone characters? Heck, this seems to have led to most folks even SUGGESTING clones that could be potentially added.
Eh, what really changed my mind was when they made it clear that clones were saving resources. I didn't know that until then.

That said, SPEN18 SPEN18 is right that clones need to be selected with care, not go willy nilly. I can't see Doc getting in if he were post-Melee for example.
 

LiveStudioAudience

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
3,144
I think for some it wasn't that even disliked clones as much as they just wanted an acknowledgement by Nintendo/Sakurai that they didn't have the same status (in terms of novelty or work involved) as full blown original characters. Echo fighters was thus perceived as an admission as such and weirdly enough allowed people to accept them; the "truth" about what they were was finally in out in the open and their actual merits could now be discussed.
 

DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
6,243
well as we're on the subject of echoes why doesn't everyone list the echoes you'd like to see
10e. Ninten [Ness]
11e. Black Shadow [Captain Falcon]
16e. Impa [Sheik]
27e. Galacta Knight [Meta Knight]
31e. Liquid Snake [Snake]
32e. Black Knight [Ike]
35e. Charizard [Pokemon Trainer]
36e. Dixie Kong [Diddy Kong]
38e. Shadow [Sonic]
46e. Bass [Megaman]
61e. Zack [Cloud]
63e. Jeanne [Bayonetta]
64e. Octolings [Inklings]
82e. Roxas [Kingdom Hearts]
 

AlRex

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 12, 2012
Messages
947
Smash will not be killed, and people should probably stop saying that, but it can only be good if it’s not the only game in town, so to speak.
 

JOJONumber691

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 28, 2020
Messages
1,561
Well guys, Multiversus has been out for quite a while and a lot of takes have come out even comparing them to Smash Bros.

Any thoughts on it? Have most of you guys try out Multiversus?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

There was a problem fetching the tweet
It makes me depressed, but that's a me problem. I'm glad it exists and could finally give Smash some actual competition, even if Rivals 2 is dead on arrival after this and Fraymakers. Also stop saying it will kill Smash. You could say it can compete with Smash, it most certainly will, but saying it will straight up kill Smash is just wrong on so many levels.
 
Last edited:

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
25,700
Switch FC
SW-1597-979602774
If you declone them, though, then that's even more resources for one-offs from the same entry in a series where like every other entry features a totally different cast.
The thing is that, with the string of successful FE games featuring different main characters, including all of them and re-dipping from the same game only get harder to justify. It just goes back to the sustainability issue and the reality that FE, as much as it's been one of my favorite series on the roster over the years, is not a Mario- or even Zelda-level franchise.

And the tipper for me is also a gameplay issue since it conflicts IMO with the original concept of that moveset, as I tried to explain. That wouldn't be a reason to get rid of Lucina, though; I would just like it to be at least rebalanced in some way if Lucina were to come back (or just let Lucina be a straighter copy of Marth).

As for cutting Robin, Corrin, and Roy before the Echoes: I feel that Roy and Chrom might end up a package deal, though that's not necessarily set in stone. You could argue for Roy to be the first FE cut, though, yeah. IF Robin were to be cut, then yeah you could probably try to justify one or both of Lucina/Chrom since then it would only be two reps from the same game; it would just be odd to not give Awakening a unique slot. One of Lucina/Chrom could be made more unique to compensate if Robin were cut (I think we had this discussion earlier), but it's probably unlikely since it would be going against Sakurai's original judgment when adding Awakening reps for 4 (remember that he was committed to a unique slot for the game and thought Robin did the job better than Chrom or Lucina). Corrin, yeah, there is a good argument for him/her being the first FE cut but as I detailed earlier it's not without some counterargument.
I don't think we discussed this much before, maybe briefly or maybe I just can't remember. But what I'd propose with a rework of either Lucina and Chrom is that they both get this moveset. They fight identical in Awakening after all. That's reason enough for either to be a straight Echo of the other.

Sure Fire Emblem isn't Mario or Pokemon, but I expect some cuts from Mario and Pokemon too. Feeling least confident about Piranha Plant and Incineroar, tho Pokemon Trainer as a whole could also go.

Speaking purely Fire Emblem however, there is a reason I'd say Robin and Corrin wouldn't make it. It's cause Sakurai said both got in due to timing circumstances. A reworked Chrom and Lucina would give Awakening at least it's main characters. The magic aspect of Robin could be inherited by Byleth in case of a moveset rework, something I'd also prefer than keeping them as is.

Then Roy, he's a hard case cause whilst his game isn't revelant, his popularity is not. He's a semi clone so easier to create cause Marth isn't going anywhere obviously. I find the subject hard to judge cause FE6 could be a game that's remade by the time of the next Smash, think it sort of depends on that honestly.

With Fire Emblem I just want to avoid the situation that characters get grandfathered in, like Sheik. If there's gonna be unique characters that have to go, I'd prefer it to be the likes of them. Their popularity ensures them to be popular demands for DLC, worked wonders for Wolf and Ice Climbers too.
 

fogbadge

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
17,474
Location
Scotland
It makes me depressed, but that's a me problem. I'm glad it exists and could finally give Smash some actual competition, even if Rivals 2 is dead on arrival after this and Fraymakers. Also stop saying it will kill Smash. You could say it can compete with Smash, it most certainly will, but saying it will straight up kill Smash is just wrong on so many levels.
yeah smash basically prints money. they only way its getting killed is if nintendo goes down
 

TCT~Phantom

Smash Master
Writing Team
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
3,580
NNID
TCT~Phantom
10e. Ninten [Ness]
11e. Black Shadow [Captain Falcon]
16e. Impa [Sheik]
27e. Galacta Knight [Meta Knight]
31e. Liquid Snake [Snake]
32e. Black Knight [Ike]
35e. Charizard [Pokemon Trainer]
36e. Dixie Kong [Diddy Kong]
38e. Shadow [Sonic]
46e. Bass [Megaman]
61e. Zack [Cloud]
63e. Jeanne [Bayonetta]
64e. Octolings [Inklings]
82e. Roxas [Kingdom Hearts]
Solid list. I’d go with Big Boss over Liquid personally and maybe Protoman over Bass, but these are solid enough picks as a whole. Only one I strongly would choose a different option for would be Big Boss over Liquid, and I still wouldn’t mind Liquid.
 

Quillion

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,591
I think for some it wasn't that even disliked clones as much as they just wanted an acknowledgement by Nintendo/Sakurai that they didn't have the same status (in terms of novelty or work involved) as full blown original characters. Echo fighters was thus perceived as an admission as such and weirdly enough allowed people to accept them; the "truth" about what they were was finally in out in the open and their actual merits could now be discussed.
I feel like the only gripe people have with clones now is whether they waste the moveset potential or not of the character. I know Ganondorf is a given on that subject, but I know Daisy, the Fire Emblem clones, and the Star Fox clones get those complaints as well.
 

HyperSomari64

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 10, 2018
Messages
1,167
I'm going to make a Purist-Reber Alignment Chart about what determines as a "Video Game character".
1659311127591.png

Anyone can do this based on the thin line between REAL gaming icons and fourth-party characters.
 

SPEN18

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 1, 2018
Messages
1,102
Location
MI, USA
I don't think we discussed this much before, maybe briefly or maybe I just can't remember.
I meant just the idea of cutting Robin but keeping the Echoes. I think that did come up before?

But what I'd propose with a rework of either Lucina and Chrom is that they both get this moveset. They fight identical in Awakening after all. That's reason enough for either to be a straight Echo of the other.
So no Robin, but rework Byleth to include some of the ideas from Robin and make Chrom unique like most people assumed would happen pre-4? Even if it would be possible to make Lucina an Echo of Chrom, she might fit better still Echoing Marth; but in this scenario with a unique non-Robin Awakening slot it wouldn't really matter resource-wise if she Echoed Chrom or Marth.

I mean, before the Robin reveal I was more of a Chrom guy anyway. But Robin has grown on me over the years. I also support reworking Byleth btw even though I don't expect it to happen.

In summary, yeah, I would be okay with representing Awakening with unique Chrom and a Lucina Echo but no Robin.

With Fire Emblem I just want to avoid the situation that characters get grandfathered in, like Sheik.
Yes, I also would like to avoid the grandfathering. Like, a character you didn't support getting in shouldn't force you to support that character in the future.
 

RileyXY1

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 8, 2016
Messages
5,886
I feel like the only gripe people have with clones now is whether they waste the moveset potential or not of the character. I know Ganondorf is a given on that subject, but I know Daisy, the Fire Emblem clones, and the Star Fox clones get those complaints as well.
Then again, the SF cast spend most of their time flying ships so most of their regular combat abilities are up to fan interpretation. At least until the later games like Adventures (which wasn't intended to even be a SF game originally).
 

Quillion

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
4,591
Then again, the SF cast spend most of their time flying ships so most of their regular combat abilities are up to fan interpretation. At least until the later games like Adventures (which wasn't intended to even be a SF game originally).
Still, I think future Star Fox characters shouldn't be limited to the blaster, forward dash, all-way dash, reflector set. If they have to make new things up that can fit within the established Star Fox universe, they should go for it. It would be much better than seeing the Zelda series' Ganon and Zelda diverge farther and farther away from their Smash selves in terms of their on-screen combat abilities seeing that, as you said, the SF cast's infantry combat abilities are almost never onscreen.
 

AEMehr

Mii Fighter
Moderator
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Messages
7,701
Location
SoCal
Funny how Zoroark initially failed being the "new Lucario", but has since claimed more time in the spotlight via Hisuian Zoroark, a clear posterboy for Hisui and will likely remain popular in SV too (assuming it will be transferable and viable competitively).
I'm pretty sure that could only really be said because it did not appear as a playable fighter in Smash Brothers. Which is more of a timing issue than it is being the fault of the character.

Lucario is popular now for sure, but it's hard to say that its prominence in advertising and media would be as consistent if it never got that spot in Brawl.
 
Last edited:

Ivander

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
9,213
Lucario is popular now for sure, but it's hard to say that its prominence in advertising and media would be as consistent if it never got that spot in Brawl.
-Had it's own movie, which the Smash version is based on.
-Was a Pokemon given to you for free in the games. Compared to Zorua/Zoroark who was an Event Giveaway in Black & White and only available in-game with Black & White 2. This is probably the biggest reason why Zoroark did not pick up as well as Lucario because everybody could get Lucario in Diamond and Pearl. Only people who did the Event, or got lucky with trades, got Zoroark and you had to wait until Black & White 2 for them to be available to everybody.
-Is very popular competitive-wise.
-Also cameo'd in Red and Blue Rescue Mystery Dungeon before it's appearance in Diamond and Pearl. But that's more of a bonus.

Lucario was popular long before Smash, whereas Zoroark was not picking up during it's own Generation. Only later has Zoroark been able to pick itself up. As I said, most likely the main reason Zoroark did not pick up as well as Lucario was because Lucario was available in-game for everybody as an in-game event, whereas Zoroark was stuck in Event Pokehell, or trainers lucky to get it through trades. Zoroark could not be gotten in the games without events/lucky trades until Black & White 2 where you could get it from an in-game event like Lucario.
 
Top Bottom