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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Laniv

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Some one should sig this.

I feel as if a mission has been accomplished.

Legless character speculation let's goooo
This is the part of the show where I promote King Boo for the 730th time :4pacman:

With regards to Slime, it's worth noting that Sakurai would've added it if he wasn't allowed to use Hero.

And if we wanna stretch the definition of "legless", I think Eggman in his floating Eggmobile could work.

Also, for your consideration:
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SSBU_spirit_Sandbag.png
 

Quillion

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This is the part of the show where I promote King Boo for the 730th time
Should he be in the Luigi's Mansion franchise, or the Mario franchise? Given that Luigi's Mansion has taken a life of its own as a franchise, I find this an interesting question.

And if we wanna stretch the definition of "legless", I think Eggman in his floating Eggmobile could work.
Still think Eggman in a legged pod would be cooler for Smash TBH.
 

Geno Boost

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Star Hill. Why do you ask?
If Tetris had been created by Nintendo itself then maybe it would have a chance as a rep along the lines of Game & Watch or R.O.B.
But as it stands I don't think it would or should be a candidate.



Mother Brain (the mobile form would probably only be a Final Smash or something).
Tetromino wouldn’t be lined up with :ultgnw::ultrob::ultduckhunt::ulticeclimbers:
Tetris has always been active and alive and in the top 5 most sold game franchises it makes more sense to line him up with :ultmario::ultpikachu::ultlink: and even be part of the original 12
 
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SPEN18

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Tetromino wouldn’t be lined up with :ultgnw::ultrob::ultduckhunt::ulticeclimbers:
Tetris has always been active and alive and in the top 5 most sold game franchises it makes more sense to line him up with :ultmario::ultpikachu::ultlink: and even be part of the original 12
Yeah but Tetris was only developed/published by Nintendo in one specific era. See my other response below for further explanation.

The comparison with G&W/ROB was more in terms of being a sort of wacky surprise pick rather than being explicitly retro (though Tetris is mostly noteworthy for its origins in the retro era anyway); sorry if that part wasn't clear. That "wacky surprise" factor is the only reasonably likely route to Tetris making it in, at least that I see. And I think that in those slots they'd be more likely to use their own IP, since these types of characters are typically low-priority and it's probably not a good show to the other company involved to slap that painfully low priority on licensed content you had to negotiate for, even if those negotiations went relatively smoothly.

Tetris is actually one of the few outside IPs that Nintendo has worked with in-house. Nintendo is essentially responsible for popularizing it through their GB version.
I am aware that Nintendo developed/published Tetris for a time. But given the strange legal circumstances regarding all of that and the nature of Tetris as a straightforward puzzle game making it easy to appropriate, I think those Nintendo-published versions are best considered as third party ports for the purposes of rostering. That's essentially what they are. Tetris did not originate on Nintendo and was always readily available multi-platform. Tetris has perpetually been on Nintendo but I don't think most people really associate it with them, at least not anymore, since it has also been available on loads of other major and minor platforms.
 

Geno Boost

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Star Hill. Why do you ask?
Yeah but Tetris was only developed/published by Nintendo in one specific era. See my other response below for further explanation.

The comparison with G&W/ROB was more in terms of being a sort of wacky surprise pick rather than being explicitly retro (though Tetris is mostly noteworthy for its origins in the retro era anyway); sorry if that part wasn't clear. That "wacky surprise" factor is the only reasonably likely route to Tetris making it in, at least that I see. And I think that in those slots they'd be more likely to use their own IP, since these types of characters are typically low-priority and it's probably not a good show to the other company involved to slap that painfully low priority on licensed content you had to negotiate for, even if those negotiations went relatively smoothly.
These who you regards as “low priority” are some of the best characters in the game and adds more variety in terms of choices not every character needs to look humanoid in order to seem as “high priority” picks many non humanoid characters also carries history behind them both Tetromino and Space Invaders shares this kind of history and worth the negotiation if this game is about video game celebration
Tetromino and King Boo are pretty compelling choices as potential fighters with no legs.

Are there any other fighters who could work that way? Piranha Plant might have worked that way, but they gave it little feet under its pot.
yeah there are some
-:101:
-:201f:
-:slime:
-Gooey (Kirby)
-Monita (Nintendo Land)
-Aegislash
-Diancie
-Rayquaza
-Space Invaders
-Gem (Bejeweled)
-Doh (Arkanoid)
-Hornet (Daytona USA)
-F-Type (Stunt Race FX)
-Bonus Kun (Galaxy Fight)
-Trax (Gameboy)
-Boggy B (Worms)
-Red (Angry Birds)
-Clippy
 
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Sucumbio

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Yeah, let's not forget Tetris is a 3rd party game originally made by Alexey Pajitnov and whose development and copyright are exclusively owned by his company The Tetris Company since it's inception in 1984.

3rd party rep in Smash is a huge deal these days so I'm almost positive Tetromino would be way down on the long list of potential characters. But it's fun to imagine. And its moveset potential has been explored by private devs for awhile now.

Edit Doh for Arkanoid always reminded me of Andross for some reason.
 
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Geno Boost

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Star Hill. Why do you ask?
Yeah, let's not forget Tetris is a 3rd party game originally made by Alexey Pajitnov and whose development and copyright are exclusively owned by his company The Tetris Company since it's inception in 1984.

3rd party rep in Smash is a huge deal these days so I'm almost positive Tetromino would be way down on the long list of potential characters. But it's fun to imagine. And its moveset potential has been explored by private devs for awhile now.

Edit Doh for Arkanoid always reminded me of Andross for some reason.
One more thing Tetris company is pretty much on board with the idea of having Tetromino in smash

As for Doh I wouldn’t be surprised if Andross was inspired by Doh there is some much in common between them
 

fogbadge

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One more thing Tetris company is pretty much on board with the idea of having Tetromino in smash

As for Doh I wouldn’t be surprised if Andross was inspired by Doh there is some much in common between them
can we be sure the person in charge of the Twitter account is in the know of what the higher ups will allow?
 

SPEN18

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These who you regards as “low priority” are some of the best characters in the game and adds more variety in terms of choices not every character needs to look humanoid in order to seem as “high priority” picks many non humanoid characters also carries history behind them both Tetromino and Space Invaders shares this kind of history and worth the negotiation if this game is about video game celebration
I didn't say that G&W or R.O.B. (or similar-type characters) aren't worth adding in general. I never said being humanoid is what does or should make a character a high priority, either. And I didn't say Tetris has no historical importance to gaming in general.
But I don't see any clear route to a roster spot for Tetris unless it is added explicitly to be wacky and surprising, and I explained why I think the wacky/surprising factor is not going to be enough. Other non-humanoid characters can be high-priority for various reasons; it's not that being non-humanoid makes Tetris inherently low but more that there's nothing other than the nontraditional nature of the character that I see motivating Nintendo to add it. Tetris might have importance to gaming, but people are not emotionally attached to the Tetronimos themselves in the same way that they are attracted to an icon like Pac-Man (who is himself probably most recognizable in his non-humanoid form); while this is not a disqualifying factor in itself, it does neuter a lot of the marketability of adding Tetronimos as playables, especially in the context of these being among a very exclusive club of 3P reps added each game. While the potential practical issues of implementing a proper moveset for Tetronimo could hypothetically be overcome, and while copies of Tetris are sure to continue proliferating on various platforms, Tetris as a PC in Smash is probably not going to serve the purpose of moving hardware or software, especially since Tetris is free-to-play in your standard internet browser. For Nintendo to consider a 3P rep especially, we've seen that there typically needs to be some strong motivating factor like marketability for recent games or having high demand. The latter is allegedly what led to the 3P chars most known for their retro appearances like Pac-Man, Mega Man, and Castlevania being chosen, and if Tetris was going to get in for "general gaming importance" then it would probably have to go through a similar route. But I don't see anything close to even Castlevania levels of demand for it as of now.
 

Geno Boost

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speaking of legless characters i think pokemon has a pretty good amount of them that would be interesting in smash specifically :101::201f:, Rayquaza, Aegislash, Diancie
you can take a look at these gameplay its very creative for example
 

Quillion

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You know something? I'm starting to miss when Smash altered the characters' personalities/portrayals in the transition from the source to Smash.

In 64, Melee, and Brawl, we got to see different sides to established characters while still making sense with canon. We got Mario keeping it together as the more-or-less Ryu of the game, Peach being sassy and flirty rather than a naive optimist, Pit becoming a skilled, loyal warrior, Bowser unleashing his primal fury, Ganondorf holding back his magic power and melee weapons as a power move, and Wario relying on his gross side, just to name a few.

Now with Smash 4 and on, they're just straight up bringing in the characters as they are normally. Villager and WFT feel like they don't give a crap like Smash!Mario and are doing their usual explore-and-make-friends or be a yoga instructor. TBF, the "different sides of a character" approach doesn't work all that well for characters like Shulk, Robin, or Incineroar who were recent at the time of their inclusions, but it still gets me wondering. It especially hurts when they change characters established in Smash to "better represent their canon selves" like Bowser and Ganondorf in a misguided attempt to appease the demand for "faithful portrayals".

Smash making changes to the characters' portrayals helped give the series a life of its own separate from its various sources. Now neglecting this aspect is making Smash feel too subservient to its sources. I know this is just another of my 64-Brawl boomerisms, but whatever; I just have to get this off my chest.

(I can at least concede that DK and Bowser's voices need to be changed on account of them not working with the lighter art style, but they should stop there.)
 

Geno Boost

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Star Hill. Why do you ask?
We spoke about legless characters but I think smash has a lack of playable robots we only have :ultrob: :ultmegaman: So far
I think having 3 more would be good I would like Bomberman, Sukapon, Harry (Teleroboxer)
Which robots would you like in smash?
 
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Lionfranky

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I got bored, so I decided to bring back question I asked in the past thread and replies.

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Mostly same picks except few. Kudos to those who got Sephiroth and Steve. Dante is the major miss, but tbf, Sakurai did say he was heavily requested, so people got pretty close. Same for Doom Slayer, I guess.
 

Quillion

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well I don’t see how you can be so sure how a character would play but alright then
Well, on the off chance that moveset design standards go back to the "pick and choose best parts" of 64/Melee as opposed to Smash 4-on's "adapt as much as possible", Dante could maybe play differently from Sora.

But if Smash 4-on moveset design stays where it is, I don't see it.
 

Opossum

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We already have one character who emphasizes air juggles. We don't need another now.
By this logic, Smash 4 and Ultimate's takes on Mario would make Sora irrelevant. And Bayonetta. And Meta Knight. And a host of other characters.
 

Quillion

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By this logic, Smash 4 and Ultimate's takes on Mario would make Sora irrelevant. And Bayonetta. And Meta Knight. And a host of other characters.
Yeah, but Sora has "air jabs" and a "tilt jab". How can Dante feel like "himself" without those (at least in the Smash 4-on moveset design standard)?
 

Opossum

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Yeah, but Sora has "air jabs" and a "tilt jab". How can Dante feel like "himself" without those (at least in the Smash 4-on moveset design standard)?
He can still have those though? It's not like Ryu having command inputs stopped Terry from happening.
 

SPEN18

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I don't think any character is "too big" to just be a Mii costume. Getting costumed is not an insult or a disservice to third parties that are extremely fortunate to make any sort of guest appearance at all. Being big on Xbox does not entitle Master Chief to anything in Nintendo's game, nor does Crash's significance to PS entitle him to anything, either (and so on). Nintendo doesn't really owe anything to these other companies, and I think it good to reiterate that fact.
 
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Quillion

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He can still have those though? It's not like Ryu having command inputs stopped Terry from happening.
But Terry has different animations and different inputs from Ryu. And while I'd like it to be universalized (in a way), Terry has his desperation moves.
 

Opossum

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But Terry has different animations and different inputs from Ryu. And while I'd like it to be universalized (in a way), Terry has his desperation moves.
And likewise, Dante isn't rendered irrelevant and redundant due to Sora existing.
 

Quillion

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And likewise, Dante isn't rendered irrelevant and redundant due to Sora existing.
They both have some kind of sword, and they both have elaborate air combos.

Two characters can have a sword and be different. Two characters can have movesets designed around elaborate air combos and be distinct.

Two characters having a sword AND having movesets designed around elaborate air combos is stretching it. It's one of the reasons why I dislike Smash 4-on Bowser for being a deceptively fast, hard-hitting heavy like Donkey Kong.
 
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