News: How Fans Brought Back K. Rool

[Pakky]

Tiny factoid... one of K.Rool's grabs is a muscle buster. Jesus.

I'm buying like 5 of the amiibo.

 

[Dudery and FAITH forever]

i am so glad to have taken part in the movement, sometimes nintendo doesnt know what you want so you have to really show it to them blunt and honest.

 

[BKupa666]

Did someone share this in another forum? I go to work, take a quick bathroom break and suddenly I have 51 notifications pop up, heh.

BKupa666 , do you have a timestamp for when Hyle says all that you quoted?

I assume it comes from this video, right?

It's from the last 8 minutes.

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

Part of me wants to take it with a grain of salt, though from what I know about Hyle and DK Vine, I don't think they would share this if they didn't believe in it, so all I can say is Kongratulations.

The fact that you guys may have saved King K.Rool from having a fate similar to Wart or Tatanga is an accomplishment to be proud of. King K.Rool's inclusion not only solidifies him as a gaming icon, but as Donkey Kong's main antagonist.

This wouldn't have happened without all of you, and we can thank Mr. Sakurai himself for being the one to bring him back.

So once again, Kongratulations,

 

[Opossum]

Did someone share this in another forum? I go to work, take a quick bathroom break and suddenly I have 51 notifications pop up, heh.



It's from the last 8 minutes.

It was shared in the Smash Ultimate Discussion Thread.

 

[BKupa666]

This is really tremendous work done by the K. Rool fanbase and the most sincere congratulations is in order. Looks like you guys saved your character.

However one thing that bothers me isn't even how Nintendo was ignorant to the K. Rool demand (that honestly doesn't surprise me) but how they can't even credit the fans in any of this, should it be true. Which is sounds like it is. To me it harkens back to Rainfall when NoA was like "yeah we were gonna do this anyway". Because we all know how often Nintendo uses the European localization and makes their titles Gamestop exclusives, or lends them out to XSEED.

Don't get me wrong, the overall takeaway from this is positive, but would it kill Nintendo to give their fans some credit? Sounds like thanks to you guys, now even people internally at Nintendo who vouched for K. Rool get to use him again. Sometimes the fanbase *gasp* actually does know what the fanbase wants better than the company, and it would just be a measure of good will to let them know how much they impacted something they care so much about. Ah well. I suppose all's well that ends well for K. Rool.

Hope we can see this kind of thing happen elsewhere...

I think the identification of Rool as "fan-favorite" or "beloved" villain in the various press releases since his reveal is as close as we're going to get to tacit acknowledgement that he got in through the ballot, though maybe Sakurai will elaborate further in a future Famitsu column. Throughout Smash history, popular characters tend to be addressed in a staggered manner, with the big ones often getting in a game after their support peaks (Wario/Diddy/Dedede waiting until Brawl, Mega Man waiting until Wii U, K. Ridley waiting until Ultimate). It's a byproduct of people only rallying behind characters after they're aware a Smash game exists, years after its design document has been locked down.

One could look critically at the idea Nintendo didn't realize K. Rool was popular until the ballot, despite concerted Smash support for years prior (it seemed to pick up around 2007/2008 and grow steadily over time, entering the top ranks around 2013/2014), and backlash to his absences in Returns and Tropical Freeze. A hypothesis I've had is that, if Treehouse members are indeed the ones passing findings to Sakurai on who Western fans consider a "big deal," they might have blind spots, or might even inject their own personal preferences into what they share. Say a Treehouse member prefers Ridley to K. Rool, or is ambivalent, or even thinks he's a meme. They might either downplay his support when talking to Sakurai or not bring him up at all.

My preference is not to criticize that it took this long for K. Rool's return, however, because once Nintendo and Sakurai got unmistakable proof of his fanbase, they truly delivered. They could've done nothing, and allowed the narrative that K. Rool fans were just a crazy vocal minority to persist, and had it have zero impact on a game that truly would've been incredible even without him. But instead, they listened, and delivered a faithful recreation beyond what most fans ever dreamed possible.

Another semi-related thing: this news shouldn't be interpreted as proof that Sakurai or anyone "lied" about the ballot. It confirms what many already knew from the recent datamining, showing Zero Suit Samus assets as an early framework for Bayonetta two weeks into the ballot (which credible miners have said almost certainly required work before the ballot opened). The Smash team seems to have decided to save their big guns for a much healthier system, where they can get more fanfare and the full newcomer treatment, rather than rushing them in as DLC on a dying system with 6-8 months of development time.

In the short term, that meant using qualifiers like "realizable and negotiable" in marketing an immediate ballot winner, bringing about much angst. But you can see why the alternative of, "Hey, this is just a character we could make as DLC with a skeleton crew and limited timeframe while planning the sequel, where we'll get to the real meat and potatoes" wouldn't work. In hindsight, their chosen path left everybody as a winner.

 

[TCRhade]

Insightful reading, Kupa. Thank you so much

 

[Deleted member]

I really am glad to hear, this too see my second favourite villain after Bowser, King K. Rool back is amazing, glad he's here in Smash, and next up his grand return to terrorize those Kongs in Donkey Kong Country. We did it our support got him in, glad to hear, it and glad he's coming back in general!

 

[Diem]

Did someone share this in another forum? I go to work, take a quick bathroom break and suddenly I have 51 notifications pop up, heh.

Someone shared this on the Smash Reddit, though I imagine that wouldn't give any notifications unless the users there were also registered here.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Im pretty exhausted of the "My friend works at Nintendo" shtick. May it be true or not. But I can believe that K. Rool big popularity was a huge surprise for everyone, even myself. I did not care much for what character I wanted back in Brawl. But suddenly I saw support newcomer forums, and when I saw people suggesting K. Rool, I thought "Yeah, I want that too!". Im mostly sure K. Rool embodies the Rareware nostalgia, people want K. Rool because it reminds them of the old good Donkey Kong Country and other Rare classic gems (Banjo-Kazooie is similar to that, but more from the N64 era of Rare).

By the way, people yet again are taking this as a reason on why their wanted characters are next. I really dislike that "MUST BE IN" attitude, even before K. Rool was confirmed. I prefer to warn everyone that nothing is certain until it happens, and just because the "fan favorite" arrow hit bullseye with K. Rool and Ridley, it doesn't mean it will hit again. But it does bode well for them.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Never give up on your hopes and dreams.
Nothing is impossible, no matter what.

 

[Pakky]

My god Rool can do a muscle buster on Bowser and get swallowed by Kriby.

I wonder what Kriby will get.

 

[Deleted member]

This is one of the best news I have received in a long time. To hear that all of our hard work managed to make K. Rool's revival possible and quite possibly influence Ultimate's roster, makes me one happy camper. Day 1 Smash for me, that's a guarantee.

 

[Banjodorf]

It seems like king krool fans are taking credit for his inclusion in smash ultimate. Now this may come off as raining on your guys parade but I think it needs to be said. Let’s not forget who is actually working on the character and the whole game as well, not the fans but the devs.

How absurd, that's not what's being said at all. No one here is saying, especially not us old timers that have waited almost two decades for this, that Sakurai doesn't deserve credit. He absolutely does, for wanting to and succeeding at bringing K. Rool back in such a fantastic trailer that features him doing everything we dreamed about.

What we *do* get credit for is the initiative to push for him and get his fanbase noticed, and then some, when Nintendo wanted to forget about him. Without #KrocTheVote and his dedicated fanbase, they would've never have thought they'd *need* to bring him back.

Unless I've just been trolled, but seriously.

 

[epicgordan]

Now the question remains--just who bested K. Rool at the ballot?

If I have to guess, it's probably a 3rd Party character. But there are so many different choices to choose from. Maybe Rayman. Maybe Shantae. Maybe Banjo & Kazooie.

Or it might have been a character that got a Mii Costume in the previous game. Lloyd Irving, perhaps? I doubt Heihachi, though I can definitely see him as our next Namco Bandai representative (we need a villainous 3rd Party rep for once).

But in all honesty, the one or two characters that may have received even more votes than King K. Rool is probably a 3rd party character--one people really wanted to see in, perhaps even moreso than King K. Rool. And is recognizable and popular in his own right.

If I have to take a guess, it was probably Banjo & Kazooie. Now, does that mean we'll get him in Super Smash Brothers? Maybe. If the demand proves so great, I have no doubt Sakurai and Nintendo will attempt to negotiate to bring this iconic duo into Smash, whether they like the idea of helping a rival competitor or not.

If Geno isn't the final character, then I can only imagine the gargantuan reaction fans would have if Banjo & Kazooie actually made it in as our final character. And just to clarify, yes, I am absolutely convinced that Geno will make it into Super Smash Brothers Ultimate. I think Cloud's inclusion was a calculated move in order to get closer to adding Geno into the roster.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

So, what do you think the chance of a new DKC game with K Rool as the villain is?

 

[Xevious 1]

Now the question remains--just who bested K. Rool at the ballot?

If I have to guess, it's probably a 3rd Party character. But there are so many different choices to choose from. Maybe Rayman. Maybe Shantae. Maybe Banjo & Kazooie.

Or it might have been a character that got a Mii Costume in the previous game. Lloyd Irving, perhaps? I doubt Heihachi, though I can definitely see him as our next Namco Bandai representative (we need a villainous 3rd Party rep for once).

But in all honesty, the one or two characters that may have received even more votes than King K. Rool is probably a 3rd party character--one people really wanted to see in, perhaps even moreso than King K. Rool. And is recognizable and popular in his own right.

If I have to take a guess, it was probably Banjo & Kazooie. Now, does that mean we'll get him in Super Smash Brothers? Maybe. If the demand proves so great, I have no doubt Sakurai and Nintendo will attempt to negotiate to bring this iconic duo into Smash, whether they like the idea of helping a rival competitor or not.

If Geno isn't the final character, then I can only imagine the gargantuan reaction fans would have if Banjo & Kazooie actually made it in as our final character. And just to clarify, yes, I am absolutely convinced that Geno will make it into Super Smash Brothers Ultimate. I think Cloud's inclusion was a calculated move in order to get closer to adding Geno into the roster.

If I had to guess

That is really hard to say, Wolf maybe? K. Rool does seem like he would be the number 1 most popular ballot character
Here is my rough estimate of the ballot.

1. Wolf
2. K.Rool
3. Isaac
4. Banjo and Kazooie
5. Geno
6. Rayman
7. Bayonetta
8. Ridley
9. Snake
10. Krystal
11. Shovel Knight
12. Shantae
13. Paper Mario
14. Inkling
15. Simon

 

[pupNapoleon]

It seems like king krool fans are taking credit for his inclusion in smash ultimate. Now this may come off as raining on your guys parade but I think it needs to be said. Let’s not forget who is actually working on the character and the whole game as well, not the fans but the devs.

What was the point of this message?

 

[pupNapoleon]

If I had to guess

That is really hard to say, Wolf maybe? K. Rool does seem like he would be the number 1 most popular ballot character
Here is my rough estimate of the ballot.

1. Wolf
2. K.Rool
3. Isaac
4. Banjo and Kazooie
5. Geno
6. Rayman
7. Bayonetta
8. Ridley
9. Snake
10. Krystal
11. Shovel Knight
12. Shantae
13. Paper Mario
14. Inkling
15. Simon

Statistically, I would find it improbable that indie characters could have made it that high at all. Shovel Knight being a slight anomaly because of his guerilla marketing through inclusion in dozens of other games, most indie characters simply arent as recognizable. Particularly to Nintendo's audience in 2015.

To get votes, a character has to already be highly well known. And not just known, but wanted enough to push through to the forefront of the voters brain (meaning, unless the voter was so myopic as to only want one character at all, the individual character needed to be one of the main ones the voter thought about... and as your list demonstrates, most of us voters wanted many people).

Your list above, in short, really just reads to me as your list. Krystal? Geno? Banjo and Kazooie? Shantae? There's almost no way they scored that highly on the list.

 

[Maxoxpower]

im sure Dixie got more votes than Shantae and krystal

 

[Banjodorf]

Your list above, in short, really just reads to me as your list. Krystal? Geno? Banjo and Kazooie? Shantae? There's almost no way they scored that highly on the list.

I wouldn’t put Banjo there. We have plenty of evidence to suggest they scored very, very well, even in places like Japan. If you exclude currently-confirmed returning characters and newcomers, Banjo is placed 4th on Source Gaming’s Japanese ballot poll, behind B. Dee, Magolor (which is partly because Kirby is big in Japan) and Geno.

Banjo likely utterly trashed the ballot in the US though. On the Reddit poll with 10k responses, a decent sample size, Banjo came in first, ahead of Isaac and K. Rool respectively.

Geno is an anomaly, but seems to have scored less highly in places.

I agree that Shovel knight will probably be the best representation Indies get.

Krystal had decent results and got decent representation.


...Though I suppose this isn’t really the place for this.

 

[StormC]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...w5m-b4JHJ0_cGRKU15KYlTe1E/edit#gid=1483868529

Here's a compilation of multiple western ballots, with thousands upon thousands of votes, and confirmed/deconfirmed characters noted.

Here's the top 10 if you're too lazy:

1. King K. Rool
2. Isaac
3. Banjo-Kazooie
4. Shovel Knight
5. Shantae
6. Snake
7. Inkling
8. Wolf
9. Bayonetta
10. Paper Mario

I'll let y'all come to your own conclusions on it. I personally am keeping an eye on this for the next few months. Dixie didn't even make top 20.

 

[KMDP]

This is incredible information.

And it bodes well for many old Nintendo characters Nintendo thinks we don't care about anymore (like Isaac, Geno is a special case).

 

[tecmo]

How absurd, that's not what's being said at all. No one here is saying, especially not us old timers that have waited almost two decades for this, that Sakurai doesn't deserve credit. He absolutely does, for wanting to and succeeding at bringing K. Rool back in such a fantastic trailer that features him doing everything we dreamed about.

What we *do* get credit for is the initiative to push for him and get his fanbase noticed, and then some, when Nintendo wanted to forget about him. Without #KrocTheVote and his dedicated fanbase, they would've never have thought they'd *need* to bring him back.

Unless I've just been trolled, but seriously.

You say that nobody is taking credit away from the devs of smash ultimate. Here are some examples of people in this thread doing just that.

Our King's glorious return is all thanks to the fans. Us.

" K. Rool would be in a dumpster if it wasn't for us.

My point is, you guys requested over the internet enough to get a character in smash. Great! Just remember who doing the actual hard work in making king krool an exciting character and that’s Sakurai and all of his devs

 

[TCRhade]

True but without us, those hard-working devs we're grateful for would have done nothing and ignored it.

 

[KMDP]

You say that nobody is taking credit away from the devs of smash ultimate. Here are some examples of people in this thread doing just that.


My point is, you guys requested over the internet enough to get a character in smash. Great! Just remember who doing the actual hard work in making king krool an exciting character and that’s Sakurai and all of his devs

It's important to remember that K. Rool wouldn't have come back without the aid of fans.

What's also important to remember is that K. Rool wouldn't have come back without the Dev team making him in the first place; even if they only made him due to fan demand.

 

[Jurae818]

I believed it when Hyle mentioned it. Nintendo of America is notoriously out of touch with the fans on certain things so it doesn't surprise me that they were surprised that K. Rool was tremendously popular and demanded for both Smash and to return to Donkey Kong games. Another member of the DKVine has a brother who seemed to work at Retro briefly, it wouldn't surprise me if he was the source. Kinda sucks that Retro may not be able to use K. Rool in another game, but I'm hopeful for him to return in general.

 

[StormC]

You say that nobody is taking credit away from the devs of smash ultimate. Here are some examples of people in this thread doing just that.


My point is, you guys requested over the internet enough to get a character in smash. Great! Just remember who doing the actual hard work in making king krool an exciting character and that’s Sakurai and all of his devs

Not sure how my post was taking credit away. I literally said we are thankful to Nintendo/Sakurai for reviving him. We’re even organizing a thank you card.

Doesn’t change what I said. K. Rool would be collecting dust without the fans moving the needle on the ballot. We are celebrating that. Not sure why you have such an interest in sticking up for Nintendo/Sakurai when we’re all buying their product anyway.

 

[SmashKeks]

My god Rool can do a muscle buster on Bowser and get swallowed by Kriby.

I wonder what Kriby will get.

You know, K. Rools overall design from DKC1 is pretty simplistic, and remnant of some of the more elaborate Kirby costumes that represent a costume or profession, like the Scientist Kirby. Unlikely though it is, it would be cool if they went the whole nine yards and game Kirby mini versions of the krown, cape and jewel, and a bloodshot left eye. I could go either way with a golden chest plate for the kirbs.

 

[Pakky]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...w5m-b4JHJ0_cGRKU15KYlTe1E/edit#gid=1483868529

Here's a compilation of multiple western ballots, with thousands upon thousands of votes, and confirmed/deconfirmed characters noted.

Here's the top 10 if you're too lazy:

1. King K. Rool
2. Isaac
3. Banjo-Kazooie
4. Shovel Knight
5. Shantae
6. Snake
7. Inkling
8. Wolf
9. Bayonetta
10. Paper Mario

I'll let y'all come to your own conclusions on it. I personally am keeping an eye on this for the next few months. Dixie didn't even make top 20.

Wonder Red is super high, jeez...

 

[Xevious 1]

Statistically, I would find it improbable that indie characters could have made it that high at all. Shovel Knight being a slight anomaly because of his guerilla marketing through inclusion in dozens of other games, most indie characters simply arent as recognizable. Particularly to Nintendo's audience in 2015.

To get votes, a character has to already be highly well known. And not just known, but wanted enough to push through to the forefront of the voters brain (meaning, unless the voter was so myopic as to only want one character at all, the individual character needed to be one of the main ones the voter thought about... and as your list demonstrates, most of us voters wanted many people).

Your list above, in short, really just reads to me as your list. Krystal? Geno? Banjo and Kazooie? Shantae? There's almost no way they scored that highly on the list.

I was going off characters I saw being popular around the time of the ballot and ranked them on where I thought they might be at, not what characters I wanted.

Geno has been one of the most popular picks since Brawl, same goes for Krystal. Phil Spencer, the head of Xbox, said he was okay with Banjo in smash when the ballot started, not to mention that banjo was a nintendo character and was considered for Melee. It isn't shocking that he was one of the most popular third party's, and I ranked him as the number 1 most popular which matches StormC's poll compilation. Shantae and Shovel Knight are the most notable indie franchises that are associated with Nintendo and both had games that came out around the ballot, they always seemed neck in neck to each other. Shantae and Shovel Knight are definately regonizable among Nintendo fans. And going by that poll, those three were the most popular third parties. I ranked Ridley lower because him being a stage boss sucked a lot of his support, which gave a way for K. Rool to become #1.

Wonder Red is super high, jeez...

That kind of shocked me to, but I think that is just because his support wanned over the years, I do remember him being popular during the ballot but didn't think he was that popular. What really shocked me was the lack of Impa and Skull Kid given that HW and MM3D came out and those two have always been some of the most popular Zelda picks.

 

[KingBroly]

I think the idea that they predicted what fans wanted falls in line with the 'we started making Bayonetta before the Ballot started' theory.

I'm not surprised Nintendo would choose to discard K Rool, as he really wasn't a Nintendo-made character (This sort of logic from Nintendo can be seen in Metroid as well). He's been here or there, but he's been largely absent since DK64. But yeah, K Rool IS DK's Bowser, so to speak.

But while I can imagine why they'd discard him, I don't understand how they couldn't see the demand sooner; and that's really the frustrating part. It's like 'how much sooner could you have figured this out?' And it's not just K Rool that people have this grievance with Nintendo with.

 

[Diem]

Wonder Red is super high, jeez...

He's got the same appeal as Bayonetta: Platinum Games character exclusive on Nintendo, except Wonderful 101 is actually owned by Nintendo, and was apparently a massively underrated game, so a lot of people support its inclusion in Smash..

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Why do these polls always combine US and Europe? I'm curious about what they would be seperated. Especially in the case of Geno, who probably has disproportionate US support compared to others with US/ Europe combined.

 

[pupNapoleon]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...w5m-b4JHJ0_cGRKU15KYlTe1E/edit#gid=1483868529

Here's a compilation of multiple western ballots
2. Isaac
3. Banjo-Kazooie
5. Shantae
10. Paper Mario

Well.. this makes me excited. All of these characters would be wonderful.
Though I think then my next one from a new series becomes Chibi Robo (if not Balloon Fighter); then Advance Wars.

EDIT: But it is hard to take a poll seriously when it includes Magnemite and Lanky Kong.

 

[Spatman]

You say that nobody is taking credit away from the devs of smash ultimate. Here are some examples of people in this thread doing just that.


My point is, you guys requested over the internet enough to get a character in smash. Great! Just remember who doing the actual hard work in making king krool an exciting character and that’s Sakurai and all of his devs

Well, they're also the people paid to do that, not us, so what's the point?

 

[BravadoMan_13]

It's an incredible feeling knowing I had a small part in getting K. Rool back in the spotlight. All of us Kutthroats had a big part together in getting the attention of Nintendo's executives. We should feel proud and deservingly so.

 

[Kiba Fox]

Thank gawd he's made it in. I remember spending like 10 minutes the one day they let people enter characters into the ballot just entering K. Rool multiple times.. not sure if that counted.. I'd enter him as King K. Rool and as Kaptain K. Rool. lol

 

[Deleted member]

Thank goodness it paid off, it still fells like a dream seeing him in. But here he is!

 

[AlphaSSB]

What a story. Was never a supporter of King K. Rool myself, but nor was I a detractor. I think King K. Rool makes for a great addition in Smash, but what this might mean for his future is inspiring. The idea of a character's community pooling together so strongly as to send reverberations through Nintendo all in the name of that character is inspiring. This may be the first of many new appearances for him, which is crazy to think about.

It gives hope to other characters and franchises, too. Although their ballot positions may not have been as high as King K. Rool's, the idea of characters like Krystal and Isaac scoring high enough to send their own reverberations through Nintendo is awesome. Maybe we'll see Krystal return with Star Fox for a comeback that puts the series back on the map, or Golden Sun to be revived with Isaac at the helm. All thanks to the Super Smash Bros. Ballot.

Curious as to where King K. Rool's final position in the Ballot was. I wouldn't be surprised if he was Top 5 or even Top 3. There's several characters who may have been near-equal with him, but the only ones I think would definitely have scored above him would've been Wolf and maybe Snake.