Official Newcomer Speculation Discussion

Captain Shades

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Mega Man isn't some auteur series that heavily relies on the vision of Inafune like Metal Gear and Hideo Kojima. Inafune was just an artist and character designer until Mega Man 8 and tons of games have been made without his involvement. Capcom takes full responsibility for letting the series collect dust and teasing fans who have wanted a continuation until nearly a decade later.
Capcom still supported Mega Man though, maybe not to the highest extent, but he was still kicking.

1) Zero and Tron were still a part of MvC3 and Mega Man X was a costume along with Frank West’s version of the suit. While this wasn’t a ton of Mega Man content, going back Mega Man never really received that much in the series to begin with and the creators of the title expressed concerns over which Mega Man adaptation should be present.

2) Mega Man was in Street Fighter V Tekken as his box art form. Capcom didn’t have to include him, but they did. Inafune even suggested it be that form as he apparently wanted Box Art Mega Man to be canon and an alternate version similar to X. Yeah, weird, I know.

3) Sonic and Mega Man comics were still on going throughout the time, keeping the character alive off screen and hanging out with another popular character who’d definitely keep him alive.

4)Project X Zone had Mega Man X as a part of its cast, even though he was supposedly dead.

Capcom never actually meant to let the series collect dust, and they never did. There are plenty of forums out there about the topic, but the fact is that Mega Man just didn’t work in the modern era. Inafune couldn’t direct the games when he was there as he was too ambitious and never got anything done, promising more than he could deliver.

They couldn’t do a 2D game, as 10 was criticized for being the same and did poorly in sales. Plus 2D platformers were kind of hated at the time due to over saturation with the New Super Mario Bros titles, the Rayman titles, the Kirby titles, the Donkey Kong Country titles, Sonic Episode 4, Little Big Planet (technically), Duck Tales remake, and tons and tons of indies.

They also couldn’t do 3D as 3D platformers sort of died. They also did try multiple times, with Inafune leaving Legends 3 and cancelling the project, to literally having people who worked on the Metroid Prime games make it

Capcom tried multiple times to give Mega Man a new game, they just didn’t work for one or many reasons, so having him in lesser roles made a lot of sense. He was always alive, it just took a few years to bring him back, which is no big deal as franchises like Street Fighter have also had huge hiatuses in their life time, like Street Fighter’s ten years between 3 and 4
 

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That’s just a random guy who was toying around with the site code, even if he’s not bull****ting he’s likely just heavily mistaken.
Don't believe that leak for a second, Wii fit was added as a WTF character, they will probably never add another wii fit rep unless it gets another game.

That’s just a random guy who was toying around with the site code, even if he’s not bull****ting he’s likely just heavily mistaken.
This leak is automatically fake, wii fit will only get a second rep if it becomes an actual series, WFT was added as an WTF character
 

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There is no such thing as a "WTF" character. Also, that's not how it works at all. Having more games does not mean an extra newcomer. Having one game does not mean you will only get one. There's always more factors than that. Having one game does suggest that getting one character is a decent conclusion, but that's it.
 

Fane

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There is no such thing as a "WTF" character.
^ THIS ^

Every character has reasoning for inclusion. There's no 'WTF' characters.

G&W, Ice Climbers, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt were all included as retro picks. Wii Fit Trainer was chosen because of how extremely well Wii Fit sold and was received by players.

If Wii Fit didn't sell well or didn't receive good reviews, it's probably likely we wouldn't have seen Wii Fit Trainer in the first place.
 

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^ THIS ^

Every character has reasoning for inclusion. There's no 'WTF' characters.

G&W, Ice Climbers, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt were all included as retro picks. Wii Fit Trainer was chosen because of how extremely well Wii Fit sold and was received by players.

If Wii Fit didn't sell well or didn't receive good reviews, it's probably likely we wouldn't have seen Wii Fit Trainer in the first place.
Just to clarify, Duck Hunt and Wii Fit were meant to be unique inclusions as well. Not simply due to retro or sales alone. He found them interesting and worth including on those merits.

Her moveset and mechanics actually were fairly important, but he also liked the idea of choosing a character that practically no one saw coming(though it's not the only reason. If it was, then a WTF character could be remotely accurate as a statement, but it's a small piece of the his reasonings).

Surprise additions exist. But they still have merits behind that. No character was added just for the sake of turning people's heads at all.
 

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Just to clarify, Duck Hunt and Wii Fit were meant to be unique inclusions as well. Not simply due to retro or sales alone. He found them interesting and worth including on those merits.

Her moveset and mechanics actually were fairly important, but he also liked the idea of choosing a character that practically no one saw coming(though it's not the only reason. If it was, then a WTF character could be remotely accurate as a statement, but it's a small piece of the his reasonings).

Surprise additions exist. But they still have merits behind that. No character was added just for the sake of turning people's heads at all.
WTF characters are a thing, they might have been added for other reasons, for example pichu was added as a pokemon rep that was highly wanted, but pichu was made a pretty weak and competitiveley useless, sakurai has since said that pichu was added as a joke, pichu was in many ways added as a joke character.
 

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WTF characters are a thing, they might have been added for other reasons, for example pichu was added as a pokemon rep that was highly wanted, but pichu was made a pretty weak and competitiveley useless, sakurai has since said that pichu was added as a joke, pichu was in many ways added as a joke character.
Pichu was added as a joke character, but also because it was a clone, and a high profile one at that being the mascot for Baby Pokemon, effectively the mascot of Gen II, and having a movie.

It wasn't even an out there choice. It was the only feasible one that fit Pikachu's body shape(Raichu is significantly different and would take a lot more time to work, especially with a completely different tail, which is a rather large part of Pikachu's moveset). Pichu was an easy clone, and had other huge stuff that made it a completely viable choice.

Jigglypuff was also a joke character, but it didn't work out as well as planned. It actually was a lot better in 64 than intended. Ironically, it'd basically a joke character once Brawl hit, being not just last-minute(due to a lot of delays due to the whole development period being screwed over by Sonic being given the okay to add very late and the SSE taking 70% of the overall development time), but also didn't translate well to the major change-up from Melee's more competitive design. Jigglpuff was amazingly strong in Melee. Pichu also is still better than Kirby on the Melee tier lists, though still very weak. And also is a really powerful counter to Giga Bowser, which most of its attacks cannot hit Pichu as is(though it's not like it never can, it's just that Pichu has a ton of sweetspots it can be in where GB's attacks will completely go over. It can't even Grab Pichu).

Neither of these are WTF characters. At best, they're surprise additions. Which is actually what Sakurai adds. He isn't trying to completely raise eyebrows, but make the game interesting to many different demographics. Many competitive and casual players don't recognize these characters or think they'd be in(Pichu wasn't even that much of a surprise. It was huge back when it got added. On the other hand, Snake, Sonic, well, every 3rd party, especially Cloud, R.O.B., Wii Fit Trainer, and many others that weren't the usual cast you'd think would battle, are the real surprise characters).
 

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Pichu was added as a joke character, but also because it was a clone, and a high profile one at that being the mascot for Baby Pokemon, effectively the mascot of Gen II, and having a movie.

It wasn't even an out there choice. It was the only feasible one that fit Pikachu's body shape(Raichu is significantly different and would take a lot more time to work, especially with a completely different tail, which is a rather large part of Pikachu's moveset). Pichu was an easy clone, and had other huge stuff that made it a completely viable choice.

Jigglypuff was also a joke character, but it didn't work out as well as planned. It actually was a lot better in 64 than intended. Ironically, it'd basically a joke character once Brawl hit, being not just last-minute(due to a lot of delays due to the whole development period being screwed over by Sonic being given the okay to add very late and the SSE taking 70% of the overall development time), but also didn't translate well to the major change-up from Melee's more competitive design. Jigglpuff was amazingly strong in Melee. Pichu also is still better than Kirby on the Melee tier lists, though still very weak. And also is a really powerful counter to Giga Bowser, which most of its attacks cannot hit Pichu as is(though it's not like it never can, it's just that Pichu has a ton of sweetspots it can be in where GB's attacks will completely go over. It can't even Grab Pichu).

Neither of these are WTF characters. At best, they're surprise additions. Which is actually what Sakurai adds. He isn't trying to completely raise eyebrows, but make the game interesting to many different demographics. Many competitive and casual players don't recognize these characters or think they'd be in(Pichu wasn't even that much of a surprise. It was huge back when it got added. On the other hand, Snake, Sonic, well, every 3rd party, especially Cloud, R.O.B., Wii Fit Trainer, and many others that weren't the usual cast you'd think would battle, are the real surprise characters).
This entire thing started because of the leak with the balance board, no matter how you spin it, joke/WTF/suprise characters do exist and wii fit was a one of game, a character will only get into smash ultimate if it was high on the ballot or if it has relevancy.
 

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This entire thing started because of the leak with the balance board, no matter how you spin it, joke/WTF/suprise characters do exist and wii fit was a one of game, a character will only get into smash ultimate if it was high on the ballot or if it has relevancy.
Or Sakurai thinks they'd be a fun addition.

Surprise and Joke Characters are different things. And both Joke Characters were highly popular, relevant, and easy last minute clones to some degree.

There is still no such thing as WTF characters, and never were. Nobody was added solely for the sake of turning heads. They actually were fun ideas, and in one case, only one character nobody really saw coming(Wii Fit Trainer). Others were more of a surprise(Cloud especially, and Bayonetta can easily apply too. Arguably Ryu).
 

Fane

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I think Isabelle being a unique newcomer doesn't necessarily mean she took a ton of work.

She seems to still borrow a lot of moves from Villager. She appears to be a semi-clone of sorts.

-Down B seems to plant a Gyroid that rockets upwards. Not hard to replicate as they had the rocket Gyroid for Villager's side B and the sapling for his down B.
-Retains the Net grab.
-Dash attack is still the trip with the pot, just a different kind of pot.
-Broom attack appears to just be a different version of Villager's stick.
-Neutral B is still the Pocket.
-FS is still the 'build a house', except the house is replaced with City Hall.
-Her down smash(the water bucket) looks like it's taken from Inkling's down smash with the Splosher.

There may be more, but that's what I could gather from the trailers. She appears to be closer to a clone like Pichu, Dr. Mario, and Young Link are.

Her unique moves I could catch so far seem to be:
-Party Popper, looks like her side Smash.
-Swing w/Balloons, looks like her Up B.
-Fishing Rod, appears to be her Side B.
 
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Fane

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So far Vergeben has yet to get anything wrong.

So we can pretty much safely say Ken is an Echo, there will be a new Pokemon and it's not Lycanroc or Decidueye, and there's a Minecraft stage with a Creeper AT.(Unless I'm mistaken)

loz18 seems to be steadily losing credibility, it seems.
 

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So far Vergeben has yet to get anything wrong.

So we can pretty much safely say Ken is an Echo, there will be a new Pokemon and it's not Lycanroc or Decidueye, and there's a Minecraft stage with a Creeper AT.(Unless I'm mistaken)

loz18 seems to be steadily losing credibility, it seems.
He never specified what the Minecraft content is. He just knows something is there, but the actual information is entirely unclear.

He also never said she'd be an Echo either, for those who are wondering. He wasn't sure whether she was one or not, though.

I knew she'd be unique if playable. Wrong proportions, she shares nothing common in Villager that would make it easy for her to use the moveset in the same way other Echoes do(meta or otherwise). But she still does a few similar things, and we got our Fishing Rod finally. I think they did her perfectly.

But hey, now I can speculate on a terraformer in Steve?. That works for me~
 

Fane

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He never specified what the Minecraft content is. He just knows something is there, but the actual information is entirely unclear.
Ahhh

I wonder where I heard the Stage/AT info then.

In that case the Minecraft content could simply be in the form of Trophies, Assist Trophy, etc... Miniscule stuff.
 

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Ahhh

I wonder where I heard the Stage/AT info then.

In that case the Minecraft content could simply be in the form of Trophies, Assist Trophy, etc... Miniscule stuff.
Or it could be a character too. Who knows.

It's because Verg said "I think it could be this." He was speculating, but was not given clear information. Just a thing people misheard. It's pretty normal, actually. Remember when Sakurai apparently said "no fighting game characters"? Same idea.

Though I do think a stage and AT are actually a realistic prediction.
 
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Do you think a thread for Peachette will eventually pop out at a certain point?
I think she's the new Pink Gold Peach lol

Anyway this Direct didn't debunk anything. Not even the Karate Joe leak, maybe they changed the newcomer to show in that week of delay, who knows.
I wanted this direct to debunk most of the leaks and that was my biggest hope (but I also was hoping for Karate Joe to be in the game for real).
 
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So far Vergeben has yet to get anything wrong.

So we can pretty much safely say Ken is an Echo, there will be a new Pokemon and it's not Lycanroc or Decidueye, and there's a Minecraft stage with a Creeper AT.(Unless I'm mistaken)

loz18 seems to be steadily losing credibility, it seems.
Didn't he say King K. Rool was not gonna get in and look where we are now...

All in all. He's been right with most of his leaks but there's been a few he had gotten wrong.
 

Captain Shades

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Well, that was a direct, maybe not the most exciting Smash wise, but definitely a good direct for everyone else. Plus Isabelle is a great character, and I love that she’s unique.

Since it has been a week though, I thought I might update my list from pg 66 and give out my stances on things.

Minecraft in Smash?
So I predicted that Steve would be a character and, yeah I still think it’s likely. Verge has yet to go down and he did say MC content. While many take that as a stage and assist and nothing else, my question is, why would you include one of the biggest gaming franchises in the past decade and history and not include a character, the biggest reason people play Smash?

Along with that both Miyamoto (who got Pac-Man in Wii U) and Sakurai have expressed a liking to the franchise, with Miyamoto stating the game is his biggest regret as Nintendo should have made it, and Sakurai saying it’s one of the few games he goes back to play. Since Simon was a loved character by Sakurai and made it in despite seemingly being overshadowed by other 3rd parties (Shovel Knight, Shantae, and Rayman) I can see Sakurai going with Steve.

I also want to add that Steve was popular pre-Wii U, like how Simon was pre-Brawl, so the ballot might not be the end all be all.

Finally to close this, Nintendo is still heavily promoting the franchise, as even their online service video had Minecraft as a highlighted title. Add the 3DS custom, and just general collaborations they’ve made for MC with Mario content and finally working with rival companies, and I’d say Steve has a very high shot for a generally overlooked character.

Echoes?
I said that each franchise that gets in Smash will have an echo, and, I think it still may be likely. I think many of the big franchises are guaranteed echoes, but maybe they’ll cut off support for lesser franchises, or franchises that don’t have potential fighters that can fit. If I were to say the most likely echoes, my list would go

High
Diddy Kong ——> Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong Country)
Ike ——> The Black Knight (Fire Emblem)
Inklings ——> Octolings (Splatoon)
Shiek ——> Impa (The Legend of Zelda)

Medium
Meta Knight ——> Pick your poison of Galacta, Dark, or Morpho (Kirby)
Pokémon, I can’t chose, there are many similar Pokémon though, so I can see an echo.
Animal Crossing, not going to try and choose, but the franchise may get one to accompany Isabelle.

Low
Captain Falcon ——> Black Shadow (F-Zero)
Ness ——> Ninten (Earth Bound)

As for 3rd parties, I think each will still get one;

Shadow for Sonic
Sephiroph for Final Fantasy (Forgot about him in my original post)
Big Boss for Metal Gear
Jeanne for Bayonetta
Mrs. Pac-Man for Pac-Man
Ken for Street Fighter
Roll for Mega Man (Forgot also. It may be a stretch, but she has the same moves as Mega Man in Marvel vs Capcom)

New Challengers Enter The Ring?
Mass speculation has come up for Karate Joe and I believe that he could be likely as the first Rythm Heaven rep. Rythm Heaven was supposed to have a character in Smash Wii U, but it didn’t happen, but that may have prompted Rythm Heaven to become popular for Smash, so a new character might happen. I’m rooting for you Joe!

Along with him, talks of Bethesda and Nintendo collaborating on Smash, so Doom Guy is speculated. Along with Doom Guy, Shantae is now really popular and speculated.

To comment, while I believe Karate Joe has a high chance, Shantae and Doom Guy ain’t happening in the base roster. Shantae seems too small to be in Smash as a fighter, especially since the king of indies has toppled and became an Assist. While I know people make the argument that Shantae is more popular, I really don’t feel that she’d be a big addition at all, at least Shovel Knight actually had Nintendo releasing it in Japan and got an Amiibo, I doubt Shantae would be big enough to get in over him. Doom Guy is fine in popularity, I just think he was requested too late, plus with Nintendo and Bethesda only starting their relationship with Switch, I don’t think he could have made it. He may be DLC though, along with Rayman who recently got the boot for being in Brawlhalla.

My Newcomer List for Smash Ultimate 09/13/18
1) Geno (Super Mario Bros.) [New Comer]
2) Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong Country) [Echo of Diddy]
3) Skull Kid (The Legend of Zelda) [New Comer]
4) Impa (The Legend of Zelda) [Echo of Shiek]
5) Pokémon [New Comer]
6) Pokémon [Echo of ?]
7) Bandana Waddle Dee (Kirby) [New Comer]
8) Galacta/Dark Meta Knight (Kirby) [Echo of Meta Knight]
9) The Black Knight (Fire Emblem) [Echo of Ike]
10) Animal Crossing Rep [Echo of Isabelle or Villager]
11) Octolings (Splatoon) [Echo of Inklings]
12) Elma (Xenoblade) [New Comer]
13) Karate Joe (Rythm Heaven) [New Comer]
14) Issac (Golden Sun) [New Comer]
15) Matthew (Golden Sun) [Echo of Issac]
16) Steve (Minecraft) [New Comer]
17) Alex (Minecraft) [Echo of Steve]

18) Shadow (Sonic The Hedgehog)
19) Mrs. Pac-Man (Pac-Man)
20) Roll (Mega Man)
21) Big Boss (Metal Gear)
22) Sephiroph (Final Fantasy)
23) Jeanne (Bayonetta)
24) Ken (Street Fighter)

Large Roster, but honestly, looking at it most are echoes and Sakurai has lied about character amounts before. This would give us.

8 more fighters added to the small 5 we have now, giving us 11 new comers in total with quite a few echoes, which makes sense as they were highlighted to be a big deal. I wouldn’t even be surprised if another new comer joined though to make a full 12, like the original Smash roster, as Sakurai is using the already built Wii U base and isn’t splitting development teams, so this many characters, especially if they’re clones, could be likely.
 

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Didn't he say King K. Rool was not gonna get in and look where we are now...

All in all. He's been right with most of his leaks but there's been a few he had gotten wrong.
Vergeben has gotten nothing wrong and do you see how each character he leaks comes into smash in order, I think it's pretty safe to say that ken and maybe isaac will be in smash, he hasn't leaked geno yet because geno makes sense to reveal before the game launch, during like a preshow or something.
 
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Vergeben has gotten nothing wrong and do you see how each character he leaks comes into smash in order, I think it's pretty safe to say that ken and maybe isaac will be in smash, he hasn't leaked geno yet because geno makes sense to reveal before the game launch, during like a preshow or something.
Again didn't he say K. Rool was not gonna be in though?

Maybe that was a rumor or from someone else...
 
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Fane

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Again didn't he say K. Rool was not gonna be in though?

Maybe that was a rumor or from someone else...
He never said anything about K. Rool as far as I'm aware.

my question is, why would you include one of the biggest gaming franchises in the past decade and history and not include a character, the biggest reason people play Smash?
Because every franchise represented has at least had importance to Nintendo history so far. Minecraft is extremely recent to Nintendo consoles, and Sakurai has stated he primarily chose Newcomers from the ballot, pretty sure a Minecraft rep wasn't among the higher percentages.

An AT or stage is enough recognition the Minecraft series deserves at this point in time.

Plus, Bomberman and Monster Hunter were relegated to AT despite being extremely popular within the community, I doubt Minecraft is very likely in the running for playable representation.
 
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Vergeben never said anything relating to K. Rool he sent a private message to Loz18 that said one his sources said there were no new DK characters coming to Smash and he was questioning it's validity. Loz18 shared the private message on Gamefaqs and said he didn't believe Vergs sources info at all in regards to K. Rool.

I'm no Vergeben fan boy but he has been pretty accurate, the only fowl up so far is he said Isabelle was an echo and clearly she isn't, though she does look a bit semi-clone like. Either way he wasn't wrong Isabelle is there.
 
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Vergeben never said anything relating to K. Rool he sent a private message to Loz18 that said one his sources said there were no new DK characters coming to Smash and he was questioning it's validity. Loz18 shared the private message on Gamefaqs and said he didn't believe Vergs sources info at all in regards to K. Rool.

I'm no Vergeben fan boy but he has been pretty accurate, the only fowl up so far is he said Isabelle was an echo and clearly she isn't, though she does look a bit semi-clone like. Either way he wasn't wrong Isabelle is there.
What if Isabelle was planned to be an echo but was changed to semiclone later?
 

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What if Isabelle was planned to be an echo but was changed to semiclone later?
Yeah, probably.









But if so they had to change what I’m assuming was their Nair, Down B, Up B, forward smash, grab, and more.
Characters can take up to months to develop, so I think that Isabelle was a semi clone from the start.
 
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What if Isabelle was planned to be an echo but was changed to semiclone later?
Possibly! I mean there's only so much you can pull from animal crossing for a smash move set so I guess there''s bound to be similar looking moves.. maybe whoever the source is only saw particular moves and assumed she was an echo. If I saw picture's of her recovery that alone would make me think "echo"

Interesting that isabelles reveal is the first to be tied to a new game coming. Though another funny detail I picked up was Luigi was using that plunger he shot in Simons trailer in the Luigi's Mansion 3 trailer.
 

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Vergeben never said anything relating to K. Rool he sent a private message to Loz18 that said one his sources said there were no new DK characters coming to Smash and he was questioning it's validity. Loz18 shared the private message on Gamefaqs and said he didn't believe Vergs sources info at all in regards to K. Rool.

I'm no Vergeben fan boy but he has been pretty accurate, the only fowl up so far is he said Isabelle was an echo and clearly she isn't, though she does look a bit semi-clone like. Either way he wasn't wrong Isabelle is there.
Interesting. Got a link?
What if Isabelle was planned to be an echo but was changed to semiclone later?
I think she was always meant to be a normal character. I figure it's because she was big enough to be. People forget but a lot of people know who Isabelle is. The echos they have added have been smaller additions like Dark Samus or Daisy.
 

Captain Shades

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Because every franchise represented has at least had importance to Nintendo history so far. Minecraft is extremely recent to Nintendo consoles, and Sakurai has stated he primarily chose Newcomers from the ballot, pretty sure a Minecraft rep wasn't among the higher percentages.

An AT or stage is enough recognition the Minecraft series deserves at this point in time.

Plus, Bomberman and Monster Hunter were relegated to AT despite being extremely popular within the community, I doubt Minecraft is very likely in the running for playable representation.
Simon was choosen due to pre-Brawl popularity, not the ballot. Given that MC was actually pretty well requested before 4, I wouldn’t doubt its chances looking at Simon. The two franchises also seem to be loved by Sakurai himself, which many think was the reason Simon got in over say, Rayman or Bomberman.

As for MC’s history with Nintendo, are you kidding me? It definitely left a bigger impact than Metal Gear or Bayonetta. MC got Nintendo to actually work with a rival company to suit the needs of all gamers and connect them. It was one of the biggest gets for the Wii U, as it was heavily requested, many even saw it coming out early on Switch as a good sign for 3rd party. It’s a series that has even gotten to Nintendo’s developers, as Miyamoto is ashamed that he couldn’t beat it to the punch and have Nintendo make the best world-Builder game.

Minecraft is the 4th best selling game of all time, under two of Nintendo’s giants being Wii Sports and Super Mario Bros.. Limiting its representation to just a stage and assist seems wrong for a game that has pretty much shaped the gaming landscape of today with world builders becoming bigger, and even Nintendo dabbled in the genre after MC with Mario Maker.

I feel people don’t give the series enough credit due to the ‘cringe’ fandom, but it really is a gaming giant that has definitely earned a spot to fight with the greats. When your franchises has shaped gaming and become the symbol of a genre, then I think you deserve to be called a great.
 

Legendary Spirit Tamer

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Honestly, the only thing that could keep Steve? out, who is really easy to get the rights to at this point, is Sakurai can't find a way to make him work well. A character's moveset has to dance in his head. If it doesn't, then another role is fine. Otherwise, he has a very strong chance of being playable, base roster included.

This actually wouldn't affect the chances of Master Chief(who has his own issues) and Banjo & Kazooie being playable at all. They're all highly popular and/or iconic characters. The only thing that could be an issue is them not coming to an agreement. We know for a fact that Minecraft is doing really well with Nintendo, so it getting content in Smash is almost entirely a lock at this point. Not playable indefinitely, of course. Anything else is not nearly as much of a lock and there can be other circumstances. However, being Banjo and Master Chief were costumes in Minecraft Switch, this puts both characters at a much higher rate of how easy they should be able to get. The only one of the very big and active Microsoft characters right now that how realistically low chances is Fulgore, and that's due to a lack of fan demand and unlike the other ones, could be considered competition due to representing an actual genre that is big for Nintendo(Fighting games). FPS and Sandbox are nowhere near a big deal, as they aren't really competing with the two Microsoft games among Nintendo's various collections. And that might not even matter, but it does hurt his chances.
 

Captain Shades

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Honestly, the only thing that could keep Steve? out, who is really easy to get the rights to at this point, is Sakurai can't find a way to make him work well. A character's moveset has to dance in his head. If it doesn't, then another role is fine. Otherwise, he has a very strong chance of being playable, base roster included.

This actually wouldn't affect the chances of Master Chief(who has his own issues) and Banjo & Kazooie being playable at all. They're all highly popular and/or iconic characters. The only thing that could be an issue is them not coming to an agreement. We know for a fact that Minecraft is doing really well with Nintendo, so it getting content in Smash is almost entirely a lock at this point. Not playable indefinitely, of course. Anything else is not nearly as much of a lock and there can be other circumstances. However, being Banjo and Master Chief were costumes in Minecraft Switch, this puts both characters at a much higher rate of how easy they should be able to get. The only one of the very big and active Microsoft characters right now that how realistically low chances is Fulgore, and that's due to a lack of fan demand and unlike the other ones, could be considered competition due to representing an actual genre that is big for Nintendo(Fighting games). FPS and Sandbox are nowhere near a big deal, as they aren't really competing with the two Microsoft games among Nintendo's various collections. And that might not even matter, but it does hurt his chances.
I agree, MC is highly underrated in the Smash community as a pick. I think everyone forgot how popular he used to be, so popularity isn’t an issue, but still everyone throws it around because of the ballot, which honestly seemed to only affect one, maybe 2 choices. Ridley was just popular for Smash in general and wasn’t high on the ballot due to the boss, Dark Samus and Chrom were both requested but left out of the ballot due to their roles in 4, and Simon was confirmed to be a pick based on Brawl popularity. Sakurai seems to be looking at multiple eras of Smash to find popular picks, so I wouldn’t be surprised if Steve is the pre-4 choice.
 
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Interesting. Got a link?

I think she was always meant to be a normal character. I figure it's because she was big enough to be. People forget but a lot of people know who Isabelle is. The echos they have added have been smaller additions like Dark Samus or Daisy.

It's hard for me to find the original thread but here's a reddit thread talking about it

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/95xtzo/the_vergeben_loz18_leaks_piecing_the_puzzle_of/

Here's another Reddit thread were Vergeben himself comments and explains the source who told him no K. Rool.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...smash_ultimate_newcomer_in_the_smash/e3t9c4w/
 
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I apparently can't see Master Chief happening. I mean sure Microsoft and Nintendo are on good terms now but since when has an console exclusive character ever been on another console? Never seen Mario on any playstation consoles, Kratos on any Nintendo consoles and such. Just saying.

Banjo-Kazooie at least makes sense though due to their history with Nintendo and being highly requested.
 

candyissweet

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After today, my predictions for the final roster has changed a little bit. I think we will get three more unique newcomers:
1. Skull Kid
2. Waddle Dee
3. Geno
The reason I removed Isaac (my most wanted), Karate Joe, and Banjo is because after getting Isabelle, I'm starting to believe that "no new stages" is real. However, the fact that Golden Sun and Rhythm Heaven trademarks were renewed to me is reminiscent to when K. Rool was trademarked during the Smash 4 DLC days, around the time when Smash Ultimate began to go into work. Therefore, I'm guessing that Isaac and Karate Joe have a good chance of being downloadable content, since Sakurai has probably seen the fan outcry for these two characters after the hints that he placed. Banjo is third party, so it's harder to say, but he would be a pretty good candidate for DLC as well.
 
Last edited:

Fane

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Simon was choosen due to pre-Brawl popularity, not the ballot. Given that MC was actually pretty well requested before 4, I wouldn’t doubt its chances looking at Simon. The two franchises also seem to be loved by Sakurai himself, which many think was the reason Simon got in over say, Rayman or Bomberman.

As for MC’s history with Nintendo, are you kidding me? It definitely left a bigger impact than Metal Gear or Bayonetta. MC got Nintendo to actually work with a rival company to suit the needs of all gamers and connect them. It was one of the biggest gets for the Wii U, as it was heavily requested, many even saw it coming out early on Switch as a good sign for 3rd party. It’s a series that has even gotten to Nintendo’s developers, as Miyamoto is ashamed that he couldn’t beat it to the punch and have Nintendo make the best world-Builder game.

Minecraft is the 4th best selling game of all time, under two of Nintendo’s giants being Wii Sports and Super Mario Bros.. Limiting its representation to just a stage and assist seems wrong for a game that has pretty much shaped the gaming landscape of today with world builders becoming bigger, and even Nintendo dabbled in the genre after MC with Mario Maker.

I feel people don’t give the series enough credit due to the ‘cringe’ fandom, but it really is a gaming giant that has definitely earned a spot to fight with the greats. When your franchises has shaped gaming and become the symbol of a genre, then I think you deserve to be called a great.
Simon has absolutely nothing to do with Minecraft's chances of playable representation. One is owned by Konami, which has an actual confirmed role in the Smash Bros. games already and they've done business with Sora Ltd. before. Simon's chances got a LOT better once Snake was confirmed playable again and Bomberman was an assist. It showed that Konami was back to play ball again.

How did it leave a bigger impact? It's simply just an extremely popular game, it hasn't had lasting relations like Metal Gear has, and it's request to be in the game was and is nowhere near what Bayonetta's was in Sm4sh.

That's great numbers, but sales don't equal representation in the game. Giving it actual representation is good enough for the series considering classics and highly fan demanded series like Banjo Kazooie or Kingdom Hearts, etc... have yet to receive anything at all.

I never said the 'cringe' fandom is why giving it the whole nine yards is unlikely. Despite it being a 'gaming giant' and delivering a lasting impact, it has very little support within the Smash community, short history with Nintendo, and strong competition. We know Sakurai is aiming for community popularity this go around. Hence the entire roster of newcomers thus far. Every single one has been highly popular within the Smash community and their own communities at some point in time. Not to mention Sakurai has explicitly stated he referenced the Smash Ballot results

Minecraft is currently an unestablished franchise within Smash and has seen little support for representation. Sure, it could have a pretty good shot at playable rep with DLC, but base roster? I think that's a pipedream.

But this is my opinion, no point in arguing opinions.
 
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