Official Newcomer Speculation Discussion

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Bayonetta 1 and 2? Or are we talking about another Jeanne?
Different Jeanne. Does the one in Bayonetta use a whipsword?

She was eligible just by being a Video Game Character.

That's a fan-rule due to a mistranslation. Sakurai never said a Nintendo appearance was required. He simply called it a courtesy(and realistically, it only helps their chances since getting the licensing again is a lot easier when Nintendo and the other company already worked together).

Of course, doesn't mean she was likely to begin with regardless. Likeliness and Eligibility are entirely unrelated.
Then I will shill even harder from Rondoline from Tales of Phantasia NDX.
 

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Then I will shill even harder from Rondoline from Tales of Phantasia NDX.
Well, let's be fair; not everyone has the same chance as another. Being eligible just means they legit can get in under the basic criteria Sakurai created.

Doesn't mean they're remotely going to happen. It's a given that Brian has no chance in hell under the current circumstances. Someone like Master Chief on the other hand may not be all that likely, but he has a lot more going for him. And then you have someone like Geno who has a ton of chances because things work out well for him(not a guarantee). You get the idea.
 

Ridrool64

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This time Nintendo chose the DLC. For this reason, I highly doubt irrelevant characters or characters with no history on Nintendo's own consoles will be playable, but I won't count them totally out. If this were a Sakurai decided DLC line up, anybody could happen, but I dunno. I don't see them going for Bug! or Sly Cooper. They COULD, and thus they might've, but we don't know, and I assume not much will change. Master Chief is the only exception I can think of, being a big enough deal to override it.
 
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I think Geno, as a non assist trophy is practically confirmed.

The real question I have, is if Bandana Dee will get in despite there being just a basic waddle dee spirit.
 

SmashChu

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This time Nintendo chose the DLC. For this reason, I highly doubt irrelevant characters or characters with no history on Nintendo's own consoles will be playable, but I won't count them totally out. If this were a Sakurai decided DLC line up, anybody could happen, but I dunno. I don't see them going for Bug! or Sly Cooper. They COULD, and thus they might've, but we don't know, and I assume not much will change. Master Chief is the only exception I can think of, being a big enough deal to override it.
I'd go further and say there probably wont be a lot, if any, third party content. If there is, it will probably be for a game on the Switch and probably one Nintendo had some involvement with. Moreover, they keep all the money when its their characters, so they don't have an incentive to do it.
 

Phil Parent

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I give it very little chance of happening...

But I'd love the cast from Pro Wrestling on the NES in there. Do it Bowser Jr. style: Have a main (Probably Slender or Puma) with the 6 others as alternate costumes.

Super grabby, ground-based style. Throws, suplexes and simple strikes. You can re-use Incineroar's ropes gimmick for the character.

I'm amazed that NOTHING from Pro Wrestling is in Smash. Not a Spirit, not a song (The match theme would be great!), nothing. Seems like a natural. Urban Champion is in FFS.
 
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I think Geno, as a non assist trophy is practically confirmed.

The real question I have, is if Bandana Dee will get in despite there being just a basic waddle dee spirit.
Bandana Waddle Dee is the character. Waddle Dee is the species. Just like Captain Toad and Toadette are the characters while Toad is the species. Waddle Dee being a spirit does not hurt Bandana Dee's chances in the slightest. Whether or not he will be considered...That's another story.
 

Door Key Pig

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I give it very little chance of happening...

But I'd love the cast from Pro Wrestling on the NES in there. Do it Bowser Jr. style: Have a main (Probably Slender or Puma) with the 6 others as alternate costumes.

Super grabby, ground-based style. Throws, suplexes and simple strikes. You can re-use Incineroar's ropes gimmick for the character.

I'm amazed that NOTHING from Pro Wrestling is in Smash. Not a Spirit, not a song (The match theme would be great!), nothing. Seems like a natural. Urban Champion is in FFS.
We got Incineroar as a wrestling character soooooo
 

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Yet another reason why Incineroar was a mistake.
Damn y'all will literally use anything to **** on Incineroar huh?

I'm not really sure I understand your criticism either (well I SAY criticism, it's obviously just thinly veiled hate). There's no reason 2 wrestling-type characters can't exist. There are umpteen zoners and sword users as is, for example.
 

Ridrool64

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One thing I do actually see us getting lots of are newcomer series, because every newcomer has to come with a stage. Plus, we only got two new series in this game, the lowest of any Smash Bros. [64 added Mario, Yoshi, DK, Zelda, Kirby, Starfox, Pokémon, Metroid, EarthBound, and F-Zero. Melee added Ice Climber, Fire Emblem, and Game and Watch. Brawl added Metal Gear, Kid Icarus, R.O.B., Pikmin, and Sonic. Smash 4 added Animal Crossing, Mega Man, Wii Fit, Punch Out, Pac-Man, Xenoblade, Duck Hunt, Street Fighter, Bayonetta, and Final Fantasy. All Ultimate added at this point were Splatoon and Castlevania.] Characters who didn't need stages back when it was the advantage are now at a disadvantage. There will probably only be one character coming from an already repped series, so Zelda and Kirby should probably shoot for Wave 2/Smash 6 at this rate.

There are few first parties, if any, not already present in Super Smash Bros., meaning that I anticipate actually a primarily third party set of DLC based on Smash 4's (though that one seemed to be a Sakurai set).
 
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Damn y'all will literally use anything to **** on Incineroar huh?

I'm not really sure I understand your criticism either (well I SAY criticism, it's obviously just thinly veiled hate). There's no reason 2 wrestling-type characters can't exist. There are umpteen zoners and sword users as is, for example.
I'm not surprised. Most people seemed to hate the Pokémon when he was revealed for Pokémon Sun & Moon. This may not be the case anymore though.

One thing I do actually see us getting lots of are newcomer series, because every newcomer has to come with a stage. Plus, we only got two new series in this game, the lowest of any Smash Bros. [64 added Mario, Yoshi, DK, Zelda, Kirby, Starfox, Pokémon, Metroid, EarthBound, and F-Zero. Melee added Ice Climber, Fire Emblem, and Game and Watch. Brawl added Metal Gear, Kid Icarus, R.O.B., Pikmin, and Sonic. Smash 4 added Animal Crossing, Mega Man, Wii Fit, Punch Out, Pac-Man, Xenoblade, Duck Hunt, Street Fighter, Bayonetta, and Final Fantasy. All Ultimate added at this point were Splatoon and Castlevania.] Characters who didn't need stages back when it was the advantage are now at a disadvantage. There will probably only be one character coming from an already repped series, so Zelda and Kirby should probably shoot for Wave 2/Smash 6 at this rate.

There are few first parties, if any, not already present in Super Smash Bros., meaning that I anticipate actually a primarily third party set of DLC based on Smash 4's (though that one seemed to be a Sakurai set).
I don't know about The Legend of Zelda, but Kirby could definitely use a stage that represents a game post Kirby Super Star Ultra.
 
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GoodGrief741

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Damn y'all will literally use anything to **** on Incineroar huh?

I'm not really sure I understand your criticism either (well I SAY criticism, it's obviously just thinly veiled hate). There's no reason 2 wrestling-type characters can't exist. There are umpteen zoners and sword users as is, for example.
Here’s hoping. Though I can see Sakurai deciding the ‘wrestler’ archetype is already represented and not picking wrestler characters to avoid redundancy.
 

Ridrool64

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Pokémon and Fire Emblem are taking the air out of the room when it comes to present series, since Three Houses and Gen 8 are things. Plus, Gen 7 of Pokémon doesn't have a stage yet; this may imply we are getting Lycanroc or Decidueye, to give Incineroar somewhere to call home.
 

GhostYB

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I think Geno, as a non assist trophy is practically confirmed.

The real question I have, is if Bandana Dee will get in despite there being just a basic waddle dee spirit.
spirits do not deconfirm fighters, thats like saying trophies deconfirmed characters in smash 4. which was a real argument for a while until it was deconfirmed when lucas and mewtwo got in smash 4 despite already being trophies.
 
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Plus, Gen 7 of Pokémon doesn't have a stage yet; this may imply we are getting Lycanroc or Decidueye, to give Incineroar somewhere to call home.
Also, Incineroar is supposedly representing Ultra Sun & Moon, yet not a single bit of Gen 7 content in SSBU originated from that game. Even Let's Go has more content thanks to those bonus Pikachu and Eevee spirits.
 
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Also, Incineroar is supposedly representing Ultra Sun & Moon, yet not a single bit of Gen 7 content in SSBU originated from that game. Even Let's Go has more content thanks to those bonus Pikachu and Eevee spirits.
That's stretching it a bit considering Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon are rehashes of Sun and Moon.
 

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spirits do not deconfirm fighters, thats like saying trophies deconfirmed characters in smash 4. which was a real argument for a while until it was deconfirmed when lucas and mewtwo got in smash 4 despite already being trophies.
Trophies weren't equipable items, they were just decoration, and the fact you cannot equip fighter spirits and that there is no piranha plant spirit means is very probable that spirits really deconfirm characters.
but very probable is not a confirmation, just makes thing worse.
 
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Trophies weren't equipable items, they were just decoration, and the fact you cannot equip fighter spirits and that there is no piranha plant spirit means is very probable that spirits really deconfirm characters.
but very probable is not a confirmation, just makes thing worse.
I wouldn't say so. There isn't a precedent for it and I doubt the company would put much weight into "but it's already a spirit". Especially since Wii Fit Trainer and King K. Rool are also spirits (albeit with alternate costumes but as far as characters equipping themselves the point still stands).
 

Zeox

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I wouldn't say so. There isn't a precedent for it and I doubt the company would put much weight into "but it's already a spirit". Especially since Wii Fit Trainer and King K. Rool are also spirits (albeit with alternate costumes but as far as characters equipping themselves the point still stands).
But precisally that's why they aren't called like the characters, but have the "( )" to differenciate them from their fighters counterparts, they could rename the spirits to something else tho, for example, the Geno spirit could be renamed as "Geno (classic)" or the Bandana Dee to "Bandana Dee ( Kirby Super Star Ultra".
 

GhostYB

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Trophies weren't equipable items, they were just decoration, and the fact you cannot equip fighter spirits and that there is no piranha plant spirit means is very probable that spirits really deconfirm characters.
but very probable is not a confirmation, just makes thing worse.
that honestly doesnt mean anything. spirits were added for the lack of trophies, or lack there of. yea trophies didnt do anything but you know what did? stickers in brawl, gave you stats in SSE. going on off that its pretty safe to say all sakurai did was combine the ideas of these stickers and just put stats and custom moves on them. this way many other fighters can be included in the game. just because a spirit is already present in the game doesnt mean they wont have a fighter spirit. listen, the only rule sakurai has made about fighters is ridley being too big and 4th parties, and that was thrown out the window a long time ago. quit assuming whats wrong and whats right, i understand speculation is a must when talking about dlc characters, but the whole spirits deconfirming thing is really dumb and will just make you all look stupid......again. but then again, you said probable so im guessing you dont feel that way 100%
 
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That's stretching it a bit considering Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon are rehashes of Sun and Moon.
I agree that it's very rehashy, but there are still several Pokemon/forms that debuted in it that could've had Spirits, and songs that could be part of the Pokemon music selection, but aren't. If Luigi can use his LM3 Poltergust, PNG files of, say, Dusk and Dawn Necrozma shouldn't be a problem.
 
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Legendary Spirit Tamer

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I agree that it's very rehashy, but there are still several Pokemon/forms that debuted in it that could've had Spirits, and songs that could be part of the Pokemon music selection, but aren't. If Luigi can use his LM3 Poltergust, PNG files of, say, Dusk and Dawn Necrozma shouldn't be a problem.
It can be a problem. The game was outright rushed for Christmas. They can only do so much. Which means some stuff just won't show up if they didn't have the right time to do so. A lot of stuff that came up later on(like Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon content) is harder to put in when he also has to deal with The Pokemon Company and other companies caring about what he adds. He isn't in complete control of content and never was. Not when licensing is a thing. It's not simply just Square-Enix alone for the reason why there's few Spirits. Each one requires licensing, and he has to choose ones that they are okay with. Stuff from older games or anything that isn't Cloud may not have been something they were okay with. It's quite possible they barely agreed since they just want to push VII only. It could be them charging a lot(though it appears they make sure to heavily pay their employees for their own parts of the work they do, which isn't something most companies do. It's a similar idea to how the Composer owns the music, not Square-Enix. This could apply to the other employees to a degree).

We don't know enough behind the scenes to think they were "easy additions" at all. Keep in mind that while we have a bit more Sonic content, Shadow was still kept an AT. It could be Sega saying no to the idea of him being playable. It could be Sakurai didn't want to upgrade him. Or various other possibilities. Nothing is that simple, in other words.
 

Door Key Pig

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It can be a problem. The game was outright rushed for Christmas. They can only do so much. Which means some stuff just won't show up if they didn't have the right time to do so. A lot of stuff that came up later on(like Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon content) is harder to put in when he also has to deal with The Pokemon Company and other companies caring about what he adds. He isn't in complete control of content and never was. Not when licensing is a thing. It's not simply just Square-Enix alone for the reason why there's few Spirits. Each one requires licensing, and he has to choose ones that they are okay with. Stuff from older games or anything that isn't Cloud may not have been something they were okay with. It's quite possible they barely agreed since they just want to push VII only. It could be them charging a lot(though it appears they make sure to heavily pay their employees for their own parts of the work they do, which isn't something most companies do. It's a similar idea to how the Composer owns the music, not Square-Enix. This could apply to the other employees to a degree).

We don't know enough behind the scenes to think they were "easy additions" at all. Keep in mind that while we have a bit more Sonic content, Shadow was still kept an AT. It could be Sega saying no to the idea of him being playable. It could be Sakurai didn't want to upgrade him. Or various other possibilities. Nothing is that simple, in other words.
You think the game was rushed?? How so?
 

GoodGrief741

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You think the game was rushed?? How so?
Smash Ultimate? Definitely rushed. It’s pretty evident in the lack of content new (characters, stages, modes) and returning (trophies, modes). Some things, like Chrom still being Robin’s FS, Young Link’s FS being Triforce Slash, and the low quality of some models, are easily explained by that.

I don’t think Ultimate is the game Sakurai would have made if Nintendo had a strong 2018 lineup without it.
 
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To be fair, remodeling all those stages takes time away from creating new ones.

Also, the fact that only 2 of the new echoes have gameplay differences is concerning. Said echoes were also the easiest to think of differences for while keeping them clones: One was inspired by the other Awakening echo, the other comes from a fighting game where he's already balanced against Ryu. Of course, Dark Samus also has a Smash appearance to draw from, but she wasn't balanced as a fighter.
 
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