Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Idon]

You forgot that they both have guns and can do the Rain Storm.

"There's a lot of other superflous comparisons I can make, but you get the idea."

 

[7NATOR]

I'll invest in that theory if we can get precedent for it normally being perfectly CSS shaped.

How did Smash Wii U, Brawl, Melee, and 64's Sound menu look? Did they all end up being a perfect shape in the end?

Do you honestly think that upon setting out to add DLC, they would look at a sub menu rarely viewed and keep something that minor in mind?

If there's no precedence before, then trying to create a theory now based on it is kinda meaningless. It'd be like pointing out that 2 more franchises would make the total new franchises divisible by a certain number. Theories whipped up from the ether and based on nothing are more desperate than interesting.

Yeah. I don't think that they would care about the Sound Test menu being a perfect square when it wasn't in the base game, and it wasn't with FP1.

Well Seeing as how Voice Theory has been a theory I've seen People Talk about and such (especially after Papagenos Covered it), and that theory is also based of the CSS, why Not Franchise Theory, Because it works the same way

Besides, Characters like Gen 8 Pokemon and Geno have been thrown around, even in the Same Prediction lists at times, so even if the Theory itself might be bunk or not, It could still be true by Coincidence

 

[RileyXY1]

Well Seeing as how Voice Theory has been a theory I've seen People Talk about and such (especially after Papagenos Covered it), and that theory is also based of the CSS, why Not Franchise Theory, Because it works the same way

Besides, Characters like Gen 8 Pokemon and Geno have been thrown around, even in the Same Prediction lists at times, so even if the Theory itself might be bunk or not, It could still be true by Coincidence

Because the Sound Test menu was not a perfect square back in the base game and it wasn't in FP1. I highly doubt that they would base newcomer selection in order to perfectly align a menu that not a lot of people are gonna see.

 

[Megadoomer]

Doom Eternal's release date for Switch has been revealed.

It's December 8th.

I'm surprised at how well they optimized the game - going by an FAQ that I've read on the official site, it's only 18 GB. (by comparison, the PC version is 37 GB, and roughly 40 GB on PS4 and Xbox One) I figured that it wasn't getting a physical version because of how much space it took up, but clearly, that's not the case. (it takes up even less space than Doom (2016)'s Switch version)

Just watching that trailer reminds me of how much fun Doomguy would be in Smash. I don't know how likely it is, but I can dream.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I'll invest in that theory if we can get precedent for it normally being perfectly CSS shaped.

How did Smash Wii U, Brawl, Melee, and 64's Sound menu look? Did they all end up being a perfect shape in the end?

Ultimate is actually the very first game to group songs and voices in that fashion, so there's no precedent.

 

[Garteam]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind a more traditional character like Crash. Wacky and wild movesets tend to blend together without some palette cleanser to establish some degree of contrast.

 

[RileyXY1]

Ultimate is actually the very first game to group songs and voices in that fashion, so there's no precedent.

Although we do have some precedent, with previous versions of Ultimate.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind a more traditional character like Crash. Wacky and wild movesets tend to blend together without some palette cleanser to establish some degree of contrast.

Plus, unique mechanics don't always have to be this huge gimmicky thing that changes how you play the game (like Min Min replicating ARMS' control scheme) or requiring the entire freaking game to be reworked for just one move (like Steve's mining)

Byleth was a very traditional moveset, in a sense, as its gimmick was basically "different directions use different weapons" and Banjo, while also very traditional, had two main gimmicks; Wonderwing and the fact that Banjo was slower but stronger while Kazooie was faster but weaker.

You don't need to reinvent the wheel or bring a gauge with you to have a unique gimmick. Sometimes, it can just be one move that happens to be a core aspect of the character's gameplay, like Incineroar's down B.

 

[7NATOR]

Because the Sound Test menu was not a perfect square back in the base game and it wasn't in FP1. I highly doubt that they would base newcomer selection in order to perfectly align a menu that not a lot of people are gonna see.

Personally I don't think they would add Newcomers to perfectly Align the Menu either, but Since Voice theory is out there, I thought I also Post the Franchise Theory since it works under the same Context

What I could see is them changing the CSS to match what Newcomers they pick, instead of matching the Newcomers based of the CSS, just to make the CSS look more organized and such. I Know past Smash games were more cluttered, but Ultimate might be trying to have the Ultimate CSS this time

 

[SharkLord]

If I see someone insist that a fighter needs to have a crazy complex gimmick one more time I am going to commit self-defenestration

 

[PacificFun]

I'd be more interested in Nintendo World if they made an effort to include more diverse IPs. From what I've seen it's entirely Mario and a tiny bit of DK to start with. I'm not saying treat sub-billion sellers as equal to household names. But easter eggs and references would go a long way. Things like Pikmin holding up a trash can or a bench, various weapon props on display like at previous Smash showcases.

The Pikmin are "rumored" (its basically confirmed) to be seen hiding around the land. You'll be able to see them via AR goggles.

Also, I feel that they only used Mario because they wanted to make a fully immmersive land with the amount of space available. A jumble of various IPs ala Smash Bros. would be hard to make immmersive probably. And with the big emphasis on actually "playing" a Mario game throughout the land (via a smartphone app and a Power Band), I feel they wanted "quality" over quantity.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

For an example everyone here loves to talk about, let’s talk Hayabusa.

I'd be more interested in Nintendo World if they made an effort to include more diverse IPs. From what I've seen it's entirely Mario and a tiny bit of DK to start with. I'm not saying treat sub-billion sellers as equal to household names. But easter eggs and references would go a long way. Things like Pikmin holding up a trash can or a bench, various weapon props on display like at previous Smash showcases.

Maybe they’re playing it safe to see how successful it can be before bringing more IPs to it?

 

[SKX31]

Challenger Pack 10: Skyrim.

Like, you pick it from the CSS and it just boots Skyrim from inside Smash.

Steve's eyes open up.

"Hey, you, you're finally awake!"

Steve proceeds to break Skyrim by mining.

By that logic, we wouldn't of gotten Banjo, then. Nothing wrong with having a more simple straightforward moveset amongst a sea of gimmicky ones.

I get what you mean: that said, there's an argument to be made that that simplicity is somewhat deceptive. Take this pro player's opinions on how easy or difficult it is to learn the basics and play a character competently (he was semi-joking around as he said, evidenced by the tier names):

How difficult I think it is to play each character at a competent level. This is ordered with left being harder than right.

This is for getting the basics down with a character. Don't take this too seriously as the tier names imply I was joking around a lot. pic.twitter.com/i00i3HRajV

— Liquid | Dabuz (@DabuzSenpai) November 29, 2020

For B-K, I can see where he's coming from*: yes the character's straightforward on paper, but devil's in the details: It helps knowing when to fire normal Eggs and when to use the Breegull Blaster, how to mix up Grenades, Wonderwing management etc. Bit different from Terry's "Can rely on quick 2 / 3 hit special cancels a lot, even if it takes time to get used to them and misinputs can happen since both the A and B button can do command inputs**" and Min Min's "Throw out ARMS to control space and make the opponent react".

A focus on gimmicks is understandable, but it's also worth pointing out the other options a character has or could have. Min Min's CQC and grab are meant to complement her zoning punches and ensure she's not defenseless up close, while Steve's normal tools encourages the player to use the cheaper materials for blocks implicetedly.

* I don't entirely agree with some of his placings, but that's a different topic.

** Which is a major mistake IMHO - I get that Sakurai and co. wanted to emulate the arcade, but the shotos / Terry would be fine with the command inputs being limited to the B button IMHO. As it currently stands, misinputs are way more common unless one actively changes the controls.)

View attachment 293257
If I see someone insist that a fighter needs to have a crazy complex gimmick one more time I am going to commit self-defenestration

And to add to that: lacks an obvious gimmick, but it's not a pick-up-and-play character by virtue of it thriving most when it can set up stuff (and its attacks' angles are not entirely intuitive at first). Sure, one can rely more on Smash attacks, but a simpler character like and gains more out of that than Greninja.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

You know, speaking of theme parks, one of my childhood dreams was always to have a statue like this, but with Miyamoto and Mario.

Spoiler

Yeah, like that.

Source

 

[Michael the Spikester]

They gotta add more than just Mario and Donkey Kong if it's gonna be called Nintendo Land.

What about Pokemon? The Legend of Zelda? Kirby?

 

[PacificFun]

I'm not taking taking Liquid's tier list seriously because he put Fox two tiers under Zero Suit Samus and Diddy Kong.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

All these prediction rosters for FP2 usually have the same characters. No one's being creative anymore.

I mean to be fair we've pretty much run out of who to discuss what other characters could be possible. We've even dug into the surprise and dark picks.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I'm not taking taking Liquid's tier list seriously because he put Fox two tiers under Zero Suit Samus and Diddy Kong.

Dabuz* Liquid is the esports team he works for.

 

[Garteam]

If we get a Bethesda character, Sakurai should invite Todd to co-host his presentation on the character.

"Sometimes, charging Dovahkiin's side smash online just works."

 

[Aerospherology]

I mean to be fair we've pretty much run out of who to discuss what other characters could be possible. We've even dug into the surprise and dark picks.

Might as well discuss characters bordering on non-video game in origin, such as Chase McCain from Lego City Undercover

 

[PacificFun]

Dabuz* Liquid is the esports team he works for.

Oh gotcha

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Doom Eternal's release date for Switch has been revealed.

It's December 8th.

Tin foil theorists: 2 days before the VGA? This is a Smash hint!

 

[I.D.]

「第5回 #スマブラSPオンラインチャレンジ」は、今週末12月5日(土)に開催！
スーパーマリオ要素いっぱいのオンライン大会を、ぜひお楽しみください。4人入り乱れての大乱闘になりますので、タイマン勝負が苦手な方でも、一気に複数の相手を撃墜すれば大逆転を狙えますよ。https://t.co/NaNx5Fnp1L

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) November 30, 2020

Time's running out for that one geno theory about the mario tournament

 

[Rie Sonomura]

View attachment 293257
If I see someone insist that a fighter needs to have a crazy complex gimmick one more time I am going to commit self-defenestration

Not “Commit Sudoku”/10

cause get it? Sudoku? The numbers puzzle?

If we get a Bethesda character, Sakurai should invite Todd to co-host his presentation on the character.

"Sometimes, charging Dovahkiin's side smash online just works."

Dovahkiin clips through the walls and it’s never patched because Bethesda so you’d need mods but oops Nintendo bans people with mods

Might as well discuss characters bordering on non-video game in origin, such as Chase McCain from Lego City Undercover

ALLOW ME TO TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SHILL .HACK. I rarely see anyone talking about it sooooo

deep breath

Haseo. That is all.

drops mic

 

[Guynamednelson]

View attachment 293257
If I see someone insist that a fighter needs to have a crazy complex gimmick one more time I am going to commit self-defenestration

I mean, look at why Chrom didn't become playable in Smash 4, and when he finally did, he was a clone of a clone: Because Sakurai didn't think his attempt at making Chrom a unique fighter was unique enough. Unique fighters don't necessarily need them to do something like edit every single stage (a promoted AT won't, regardless of the meme), but Sakurai does want newcomers to really stick out.

 

[SharkLord]

I mean, look at why Chrom didn't become playable in Smash 4, and when he finally did, he was a clone of a clone: Because Sakurai didn't think his attempt at making Chrom a unique fighter was unique enough. Unique fighters don't necessarily need them to do something like edit every single stage (a promoted AT won't, regardless of the meme), but Sakurai does want newcomers to really stick out.

Unique=/=Gimmick. Besides, Nintendo's choosing the fighters. I doubt Sakurai would look at Crash and go "Nope, can't spin something unique out of that," not when Banjo and Kazooie exist.

Not “Commit Sudoku”/10

cause get it? Sudoku? The numbers puzzle?

No

DEFENESTRATION IS MANDATORY

 

[3BitSaurus]

I get what you mean: that said, there's an argument to be made that that simplicity is somewhat deceptive. Take this pro player's opinions on how easy or difficult it is to learn the basics and play a character competently (he was semi-joking around as he said, evidenced by the tier names):


For B-K, I can see where he's coming from*: yes the character's straightforward on paper, but devil's in the details: It helps knowing when to fire normal Eggs and when to use the Breegull Blaster, how to mix up Grenades, Wonderwing management etc. Bit different from Terry's "Can rely on quick 2 / 3 hit special cancels a lot, even if it takes time to get used to them and misinputs can happen since both the A and B button can do command inputs**" and Min Min's "Throw out ARMS to control space and make the opponent react".

A focus on gimmicks is understandable, but it's also worth pointing out the other options a character has or could have. Min Min's CQC and grab are meant to complement her zoning punches and ensure she's not defenseless up close, while Steve's normal tools encourages the player to use the cheaper materials for blocks implicetedly.

* I don't entirely agree with some of his placings, but that's a different topic.

** Which is a major mistake IMHO - I get that Sakurai and co. wanted to emulate the arcade, but the shotos / Terry would be fine with the command inputs being limited to the B button IMHO. As it currently stands, misinputs are way more common unless one actively changes the controls.)

As someone who plays a lot of characters in the last two categories, I fully agree with this assessment. In fact, being blindfolded and sleeping actually helps me play Yoshi.

And of course Rosalina is galaxy brain, what did you expect.

 

[StarBot]

View attachment 293257
If I see someone insist that a fighter needs to have a crazy complex gimmick one more time I am going to commit self-defenestration

Well considering Sakurai said he wanted the reminding of the fighters to be unique..........

 

[SharkLord]

Well considering Sakurai said he wanted the reminding of the fighters to be unique..........

I'll say it again:

Unique=/=Gimmick

 

[DanganZilla5]

I mean to be fair we've pretty much run out of who to discuss what other characters could be possible. We've even dug into the surprise and dark picks.

Even characters like Bill Rizer? Lara Croft? Arthur? Frank West? Frogger? Maxwell?

I don't visit here too often, but there are some characters that still don't get too much attention.

Especially Contra. I mean come on its god dam Contra! A classic NES series that keeps going to this day and would have an inspired moveset. People keep bringing up Ryu Hayabusa as the last NES icon, but Bill Rizer is up there too.

BTW I'm not directing this at you only, I'm mostly talking to the whole thread here.

 

[andree123]

Both the NES and SNES Nintendo Switch Online games were giving updates. v5.0.0 and v2.0.0. There are no new games in the update. Preparing for something else? pic.twitter.com/HeNU9WPFtv

— Daniel Vuckovic (@VOOK64) November 30, 2020

So the NES and SNES NSO apps are updated with no changes...
Maybe more info by tomorrow?

EDIT:

based on what everyone's seeing it's just a bunch of reorganization and refactoring of the code and data for....some reason

probably why they didn't "announce" anything

— Nikki™ (@NWPlayer123) November 30, 2020

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Both the NES and SNES Nintendo Switch Online games were giving updates. v5.0.0 and v2.0.0. There are no new games in the update. Preparing for something else? pic.twitter.com/HeNU9WPFtv

— Daniel Vuckovic (@VOOK64) November 30, 2020

So the NES and SNES NSO apps are updated with no changes...
Maybe more info by tomorrow?

desperately hoping for a N64 and/or GCN NSO app; more so the latter

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Both the NES and SNES Nintendo Switch Online games were giving updates. v5.0.0 and v2.0.0. There are no new games in the update. Preparing for something else? pic.twitter.com/HeNU9WPFtv

— Daniel Vuckovic (@VOOK64) November 30, 2020

So the NES and SNES NSO apps are updated with no changes...
Maybe more info by tomorrow?

Still waiting Nintendo......

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Crazy theory; what if the limited release of Mario 3D All Stars was to pave the way for the N64 and GameCube NSO apps?

wii wouldn’t count, they’d just give it a regular remaster like Galaxy, which I expect to be rereleased in a permanent collection with Galaxy 2 later on

but also hecc u I NEED my F-Zero GX with AX mode and online support

 

[7NATOR]

Will we get Banjo Kazooie if N64 online is added?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Will we get Banjo Kazooie if N64 online is added?

If Microsoft agrees to it, maybe

 

[cashregister9]

desperately hoping for a N64 and/or GCN NSO app; more so the latter

Still waiting Nintendo......

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View attachment 293276
View attachment 293277

If you always keep your expectations this high then you will only be disappointed

I have been burned too many times (ಥ﹏ಥ)

 

[Schnee117]

You will get original Game Boy games and you will like them

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Well NateDrake did say that we might get something Tuesday so we might neg new games or something tomorrow. A new consoles like N64 or GB would be nice, but I'm not getting my hopes up for that.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

If you always keep your expectations this high then you will only be disappointed

I have been burned too many times (ಥ﹏ಥ)

You’re talking to someone who’s wanted F-Zero and Eternal Darkness to return for over a decade now

I’m used to it.