Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[LiveStudioAudience]

If the next Nintendo system is backwards compatible, there might be something to developing a new entry, but still allowing the online insfruscture of Ultimate to continue in some form so contemporary players would thus have a choice in Smash titles.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

If the next Nintendo system is backwards compatible, there might be something to developing a new entry, but still allowing the online insfruscture of Ultimate to continue in some form so contemporary players would thus have a choice in Smash titles.

This is Ultimate's "online" we're talking about, though

 

[7NATOR]

This is Ultimate's "online" we're talking about, though

Well Sakurai and the Team were trying to work with Rollback, Perhaps by then (and maybe with more assistance from Harada) we could get it by the time the next console comes out

 

[Cosmic77]

I'm not particularly concerned about the next Smash using the same setup as previous Smash games, even if it has a fewer number of characters.

I know a lot of people will probably passionately disagree with me, but I'm fine with Sakurai doing what he usually does — bringing back as many characters as he can, adding several new first-parties, tossing in a couple of third-parties, and making a ton of new stages and modes. I don't want some kind of reboot where the formula is completely changed or the focus becomes, "Let's just keep the main characters and mascots from Nintendo's best franchises and cram in as many third-parties as possible so we can REALLY make this the biggest crossover ever!".

 

[SirBillyBob]

Unless Sakurai is fully retiring from Game Development, Sakurai will have to work on Something after Ultimate Eventually, even if not Smash.

Kid Icarus Uprising 2 let's goooooooooooooooooooo.

 

[SKX31]

What happened in Q4?

I assume GTA V

Yep. The minor bumps upwards since have generally coincided with GTA V's PS4 / Xbone release and transition to GTA Online. I'm saying minor in relative terms here.

This is Ultimate's "online" we're talking about, though

"Proud" home of so many teabagging Nesses and Ganondorfs it becomes its own metagame.

If the next Nintendo system is backwards compatible, there might be something to developing a new entry, but still allowing the online insfruscture of Ultimate to continue in some form so contemporary players would thus have a choice in Smash titles.

There's - as Ramen pointed out - some very real demand for a better online infrastructure though. Not just through the #FixUltimateOnline debacle, but also since Ultimate's online is still rather well-populated if only due to Ultimate's sheer size. After all, max GSP is at 8,3 Million, or roughly 1/3 of Ultimate's total install base (and that seems like a feasible number for Ultimate's total online population).

I'm not going to assume that all 8,3 million still play Ultimate's online (it'd be bonkers if Ultimate's online somehow managed a 100 % player retention rate), but I'm assuming that enough play it that Nintendo has to maintain the servers on a large enough scale.

I'm also assuming that Nintendo hates the fact that the Melee community's pretty much moved to Rollback on Emulators ("the horror!" from Nintendo's PoV) at this point. Sure, Slippi does not offer the full Melee suite just yet, but I can't imagine that Nintendo were happy about that still.

 

[Lamperouge]

Sakurai is obviously moving on from Smash after Ultimate's DLC is finished to finally make Meteos 2.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The amount of compelling 1st party newcomers right now is pretty weak, if I’m being pretty honest.

Like I don’t mean that as an insult. But your headliners for Smash 6, as it stands now, are supporting cast members, Astral Chain, and Ring Fit Adventure. I think RFA and Astral Chain would be fantastic by the way, but one can not deny that the sheer impact that first party newcomers have had isn’t really there anymore. There isn’t a character that has taken on the focus or support of somebody like K.Rool or Ridley.

Sure, people like Waluigi or Bandanna Waddle Dee. But I think it’s hard to prove they’re similar to Ridley, or K.Rool.

I mean, I play Smash because of the gameplay and the characters. I love playing as Snake, and him not being in Wii U took out quite a bit of my enjoyment. That may be said by many folks who are currently playing Ultimate.

I feel as if “port” is a dirty word to people, though I don’t really get that. Ultimate wouldn’t be what it is if not for Wii U’s assets being...ported and used for Ultimate.

I could see a case for a new Smash if there was a compelling lineup for franchises or characters that could be added and really spice things up. But just looking at things, Chibi-Robo, Advance Wars, Golden Sun? Dead. Waluigi? Undeniably a community pick but also from a series with insane amounts of content. RFA and AC are bigger contenders, but aside from that it’s...new Fire Emblem and new Pokémon, both of which already have insane character content already.

But there are two things I’m thinking about- we have 4 characters left in a roster that will hover around 80 characters (several more if you consider skins like the Koopa Kids, Hero, and Alph), yet we’re thinking about a game in which 40 of them are cut to “freshen things up”. I don’t even know what that means!

If this topic is coming up because of boredom, then lads do I have a game you could play!

Smash is not just a game, it’s a marketing machine. Any first parties they cut, especially if they are stand alone for their franchise, then runs the risk of less focus around Smash. Then you have the historical side, like for R.O.B, or Duck Hunt. Then you have 3rd party partnerships (which are a large part as to why the Switch is more successful than the Wii U), which might stay together easily if you’re SEGA or Capcom, but are a smaller part of a bigger picture with Square Enix, for example.

I do think it’s likely that a “new” Smash game wouldn’t have as much content, but I don’t exactly see the problem with adding onto Ultimate, even as an enhanced port down the road, with new content. If characters are the #1 draw to Ultimate( which, they are), then no, adding Bandanna Waddle Dee or changing something to be wacky and exciting will not soften the blow of losing Cloud Strife and Midgar, or Joker and Mementos.

To me it comes down to this: Nintendo announces Smash in the future. What would get more hype?

A new Smash game that cuts 40 characters?

or

An enhanced port of Ultimate that adds a new mode or two, and 10 new characters and stages?

Given the success of Ultimate and the current pool of characters, I think I know which one sounds better to me.

EDIT: Yes, I am aware licensing costs are a thing. But that goes both ways. Sure, Nintendo pays to get content in Smash, but those brands also benefit from getting exposure in Smash, as well as building a consumer base on Nintendo platforms.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I still want Nintendo vs. Capcom...

Oh well, maybe in another 5 years.

That aint tatsunoko vs capcom 2

 

[cashregister9]

That aint tatsunoko vs capcom 2

I feel like we would have had it already if more people worldwide knew what the first 4 syllables meant.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I feel like we would have had it already if more people worldwide knew what the first 4 syllables meant.

Also if the wii wasn't a bad place to release a fighting game, if only because of the controller.

 

[MooMew64]

This is Ultimate's "online" we're talking about, though

What are ya talkin' about? Ultimate's online is great! Just look at these state of the art servers:

Spoiler

Best netcode money can buy!

 

[SharkLord]

If I'm going to be honest, I tend to forget some of the fighters and a lot of the stages even exist. I'd much prefer a smaller, tighter amount of new content over a bunch of old content that we've been stuck with for an entire console generation. Focus on quality over quantity, improve some old movesets, shake up the gameplay, give us some wacky, off-the-wall choices, add some actual character interaction. We've already done the big roster thing; Let's try something else.

But all that is years away. Let's focus on the now and the near future. No need to strain our eyes trying to stare into the distance.

 

[Wigglerman]

What are ya talkin' about? Ultimate's online is great! Just look at these state of the art servers:

Spoiler

Best netcode money can buy!

Strange, I saw them on a Nintendo tour last year and they looked like this:

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I still want Nintendo vs. Capcom...

Oh well, maybe in another 5 years.

And Super Smash Bros. vs. Jump Stars.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I feel like we would have had it already if more people worldwide knew what the first 4 syllables meant.

The Speed Racer license isnt being used by anyone currently so everyone but Mospeada (Due to Robotech ****ery)should be free game
Speed appeared recently in a tatsunoko crossover show recently playing as a gunslinger alongside Doronjo

 

[Wigglerman]

If I'm going to be honest, I tend to forget some of the fighters and a lot of the stages even exist. I'd much prefer a smaller, tighter amount of new content over a bunch of old content that we've been stuck with for an entire console generation. Focus on quality over quantity, improve some old movesets, shake up the gameplay, give us some wacky, off-the-wall choices, add some actual character interaction. We've already done the big roster thing; Let's try something else.

But all that is years away. Let's focus on the now and the near future. No need to strain our eyes trying to stare into the distance.

I don't see why we can't have both. There's so much good that it'd be a shame to lose a lot of it just for the sake of it. If they could tighten up what we have while expanding upon what we don't, then I don't see why we shouldn't go down that road. All Ultimate feels like it's missing at this point is more modes that players WANT to play over and over outside of just conventional Smash matches. Though the franchise has loads of ways to customize a match, some fully fleshed out modes with their own spin/mechanics would be fun. The most obvious of the bunch being Smash Run, for starters. I feel like there is still so much untapped potential for fun, less conventional modes.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

And Super Smash Bros. vs. Jump Stars.

Pokemon vs Yu-gi-oh.

Perfect

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Pokemon vs Yu-gi-oh.

Perfect

One of my ideas for such a game would be rivalries similar to PSASBR but with a theme. Among those being Pokemon Trainer vs. Yami Yugi/Yugi Moto, their theme being Summoners.

Others I also thought of.

Spoiler

Captain Falcon (F-Zero) vs. Ryo Saeba (City Hunter)
Theme: Bounty Hunters

Donkey Kong (Donkey Kong) vs. Kondou Isao (Gintama)
Theme: Gorillas

Ganondorf (The Legend of Zelda) vs. Dio Brando (Jojo's Bizarre Adventures)
Theme: Unkillable Antagonists

Isaac (Golden Sun) vs. Gaara (Naruto)
Theme: Earthly Fighters

King Dedede (Kirby) vs. Gintoki Sakata (Gintama)
Theme: Trolling With The Audience

King K. Rool (Donkey Kong) vs. Blackbeard (One Piece)
Theme: Evil Pirates

Kirby (Kirby) vs. Toriko (Toriko)
Theme: Big Eaters

Link (The Legend of Zelda) vs. Jotaro Kujo (JoJo's Bizarre Adventures)
Theme: Stoic Silent Protagonists

Max Brass (ARMS) vs. All-Might (My Hero Academia)
Theme: Inspirational Heroes

Medusa (Kid Icarus) vs. Orochimaru (Naruto)
Theme: Serpentine Antagonists

Meta Knight (Kirby) vs. Kenpachi Zaraki (Bleach)
Theme: Honorable Rivals

Ness (EarthBound) vs. Gon Freecss (HunterxHunter)
Theme: Happy-go-lucky Adventurous Kids

Palutena (Kid Icarus) vs. Saori Kido (Saint Seiya)
Theme: Divine Mentors

Pikachu (Pokemon) vs. Killua Zoldyck (HunterxHunter)
Theme: Electric Fighters

Pit (Kid Icarus) vs. Pegasus Seiya (Saint Seiya)
Theme: Gods Chosen Champions

Ridley (Metroid) vs. Frieza (Dragon Ball Z)
Theme: Genocidal Aliens

Spring Man (ARMS) vs. Monkey D. Luffy (One Piece)
Theme: Stretchy Fighters

Takamaru (The Mysterious Murasame Castle) vs. Kenshin Himura (Rurouni Kenshin)
Theme: Samurais

 

[Wigglerman]

Pokemon vs Yu-gi-oh.

Perfect

Print it. Pack it. Ship it.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

>> We almost got SOULTAKER in TvsC

How Capcom decided Karas was a better choice than SoulTaker and Nurse Witch Komugi i will never know.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

How Capcom decided Karas was a better choice than SoulTaker and Nurse Witch Komugi i will never know.

Was Karas the one who was basically a one-off character?

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Was Karas the one who was basically a one-off character?

Karas was one of the newbie guys in the tatsunoko roster (his anime OVA aired in 2006)

Soultaker would've been better though imo

 

[I.D.]

Cut these third parties IMMEDIATELY we need to make room for more pokeymans and fire emblem avatars

 

[Cosmic77]

The amount of compelling 1st party newcomers right now is pretty weak, if I’m being pretty honest.

Like I don’t mean that as an insult. But your headliners for Smash 6, as it stands now, are supporting cast members, Astral Chain, and Ring Fit Adventure. I think RFA and Astral Chain would be fantastic by the way, but one can not deny that the sheer impact that first party newcomers have had isn’t really there anymore. There isn’t a character that has taken on the focus or support of somebody like K.Rool or Ridley.

Sure, people like Waluigi or Bandanna Waddle Dee. But I think it’s hard to prove they’re similar to Ridley, or K.Rool.

I mean, I play Smash because of the gameplay and the characters. I love playing as Snake, and him not being in Wii U took out quite a bit of my enjoyment. That may be said by many folks who are currently playing Ultimate.

I feel as if “port” is a dirty word to people, though I don’t really get that. Ultimate wouldn’t be what it is if not for Wii U’s assets being...ported and used for Ultimate.

I could see a case for a new Smash if there was a compelling lineup for franchises or characters that could be added and really spice things up. But just looking at things, Chibi-Robo, Advance Wars, Golden Sun? Dead. Waluigi? Undeniably a community pick but also from a series with insane amounts of content. RFA and AC are bigger contenders, but aside from that it’s...new Fire Emblem and new Pokémon, both of which already have insane character content already.

But there are two things I’m thinking about- we have 4 characters left in a roster that will hover around 80 characters (several more if you consider skins like the Koopa Kids, Hero, and Alph), yet we’re thinking about a game in which 40 of them are cut to “freshen things up”. I don’t even know what that means!

If this topic is coming up because of boredom, then lads do I have a game you could play!

Smash is not just a game, it’s a marketing machine. Any first parties they cut, especially if they are stand alone for their franchise, then runs the risk of less focus around Smash. Then you have the historical side, like for R.O.B, or Duck Hunt. Then you have 3rd party partnerships (which are a large part as to why the Switch is more successful than the Wii U), which might stay together easily if you’re SEGA or Capcom, but are a smaller part of a bigger picture with Square Enix, for example.

I do think it’s likely that a “new” Smash game wouldn’t have as much content, but I don’t exactly see the problem with adding onto Ultimate, even as an enhanced port down the road, with new content. If characters are the #1 draw to Ultimate( which, they are), then no, adding Bandanna Waddle Dee or changing something to be wacky and exciting will not soften the blow of losing Cloud Strife and Midgar.

To me it comes down to this: Nintendo announces Smash in the future. What would get more hype?

A new Smash game that cuts 40 characters?

or

An enhanced port of Ultimate that adds a new mode or two, and 10 new characters and stages?

Given the success of Ultimate and the current pool of characters, I think I know which one sounds better to me.

To be fair, you're not pointing out some of the benefits that would come with cutting some characters. You're making it sound like only one of the two would offer something exciting.

The reason why Ultimate was so hype is because there was a TON of old content that had been cut over the years, so in a sense, it was all new to people. Yeah, a port would bring back everything people liked from Ultimate, but if it's being treated as merely a port and nothing more, then there's going to be significantly less new content. Basically, you're getting a MK8D game, which is fine if you only wanted the game on the latest console. You just won't be getting a final product that's significantly different from the first, and that's likely what you'll be stuck with for a large portion of the console's lifetime, assuming they even bother making a second Smash game before the next console launches.

I know people flip out at the idea of losing characters, but honestly, I don't want to live in fear and settle for single-digit new characters and stages for base game forever. I'd like to go back to getting 30 or so new stages, along with another new Adventure mode, some new bosses, several new modes, and a ton of new items, ATs, etc. in the next Smash game. That sounds more appealing to me than Ultimate again but with a few new things sprinkled on top.

 

[PeridotGX]

i kinda want a new game so we can get a lot of new stages and remixes from series already in Smash. We didn't get a lot of that in Ultimate (at least the former).

 

[RileyXY1]

To be fair, you're not pointing out some of the benefits that would come with cutting some characters. You're making it sound like only one of the two would offer something exciting.

The reason why Ultimate was so hype is because there was a TON of old content that had been cut over the years, so in a sense, it was all new to people. Yeah, a port would bring back everything people liked from Ultimate, but if it's being treated as merely a port and nothing more, then there's going to be significantly less new content. Basically, you're getting a MK8D game, which is fine if you only wanted the game on the latest console. You just won't be getting a final product that's significantly different from the first, and that's likely what you'll be stuck with for a large portion of the console's lifetime, assuming they even bother making a second Smash game before the next console launches.

I know people flip out at the idea of losing characters, but honestly, I don't want to live in fear and settle for single-digit new characters and stages for base game forever. I'd like to go back to getting 30 or so new stages, along with another new Adventure mode, some new bosses, several new modes, and a ton of new items, ATs, etc. in the next Smash game. That sounds more appealing to me than Ultimate again but with a few new things sprinkled on top.

Yeah. In base Ultimate, there were really only 5 newcomers that didn't mostly use assets from other fighters.

 

[SharkLord]

To be fair, you're not pointing out some of the benefits that would come with cutting some characters. You're making it sound like only one of the two would offer something exciting.

The reason why Ultimate was so hype is because there was a TON of old content that had been cut over the years, so in a sense, it was all new to people. Yeah, a port would bring back everything people liked from Ultimate, but if it's being treated as merely a port and nothing more, then there's going to be significantly less new content. Basically, you're getting a MK8D game, which is fine if you only wanted the game on the latest console. You just won't be getting a final product that's significantly different from the first, and that's likely what you'll be stuck with for a large portion of the console's lifetime, assuming they even bother making a second Smash game before the next console launches.

I know people flip out at the idea of losing characters, but honestly, I don't want to live in fear and settle for single-digit new characters and stages for base game forever. I'd like to go back to getting 30 or so new stages, along with another new Adventure mode, some new bosses, several new modes, and a ton of new items, ATs, etc. in the next Smash game. That sounds more appealing to me than Ultimate again but with a few new things sprinkled on top.

There's also the fact that some representation in Smash is pretty lopsided, such as Gen 1 for Pokemon, Super Star for Kirby, Rare's games for Donkey Kong, and Awakening and swordfighters for Fire Emblem. A fresh start could help us dial back and mend some of these issues, instead of just going "I'm sorry, did you say MORE CONTENT?" Having a massive amount of stuff is cool and all, but that content isn't necessarily guaranteed to be good or balanced.

 

[GoodGrief741]

The amount of compelling 1st party newcomers right now is pretty weak, if I’m being pretty honest.

Like I don’t mean that as an insult. But your headliners for Smash 6, as it stands now, are supporting cast members, Astral Chain, and Ring Fit Adventure. I think RFA and Astral Chain would be fantastic by the way, but one can not deny that the sheer impact that first party newcomers have had isn’t really there anymore. There isn’t a character that has taken on the focus or support of somebody like K.Rool or Ridley.

Sure, people like Waluigi or Bandanna Waddle Dee. But I think it’s hard to prove they’re similar to Ridley, or K.Rool.

I mean, I play Smash because of the gameplay and the characters. I love playing as Snake, and him not being in Wii U took out quite a bit of my enjoyment. That may be said by many folks who are currently playing Ultimate.

I feel as if “port” is a dirty word to people, though I don’t really get that. Ultimate wouldn’t be what it is if not for Wii U’s assets being...ported and used for Ultimate.

I could see a case for a new Smash if there was a compelling lineup for franchises or characters that could be added and really spice things up. But just looking at things, Chibi-Robo, Advance Wars, Golden Sun? Dead. Waluigi? Undeniably a community pick but also from a series with insane amounts of content. RFA and AC are bigger contenders, but aside from that it’s...new Fire Emblem and new Pokémon, both of which already have insane character content already.

But there are two things I’m thinking about- we have 4 characters left in a roster that will hover around 80 characters (several more if you consider skins like the Koopa Kids, Hero, and Alph), yet we’re thinking about a game in which 40 of them are cut to “freshen things up”. I don’t even know what that means!

If this topic is coming up because of boredom, then lads do I have a game you could play!

Smash is not just a game, it’s a marketing machine. Any first parties they cut, especially if they are stand alone for their franchise, then runs the risk of less focus around Smash. Then you have the historical side, like for R.O.B, or Duck Hunt. Then you have 3rd party partnerships (which are a large part as to why the Switch is more successful than the Wii U), which might stay together easily if you’re SEGA or Capcom, but are a smaller part of a bigger picture with Square Enix, for example.

I do think it’s likely that a “new” Smash game wouldn’t have as much content, but I don’t exactly see the problem with adding onto Ultimate, even as an enhanced port down the road, with new content. If characters are the #1 draw to Ultimate( which, they are), then no, adding Bandanna Waddle Dee or changing something to be wacky and exciting will not soften the blow of losing Cloud Strife and Midgar, or Joker and Mementos.

To me it comes down to this: Nintendo announces Smash in the future. What would get more hype?

A new Smash game that cuts 40 characters?

or

An enhanced port of Ultimate that adds a new mode or two, and 10 new characters and stages?

Given the success of Ultimate and the current pool of characters, I think I know which one sounds better to me.

EDIT: Yes, I am aware licensing costs are a thing. But that goes both ways. Sure, Nintendo pays to get content in Smash, but those brands also benefit from getting exposure in Smash, as well as building a consumer base on Nintendo platforms.

Idk man, in your example, cutting Cloud to add Bandana Dee is a net gain imo, because a newcomer will always provide more excitement than a veteran; especially right not that veterans are taken for granted. People who wanted Bandana Dee finally get their character playable, and people who like Cloud still have two wonderful games where he is playable. It would be the same if it was Little Mac getting cut and Kratos getting in, or Ryu getting cut and Dante getting in. Fans will be upset, of course, but the majority will just welcome the new addition if it's good. That's just the reality of game development.

Like Cosmic said, you ignore the positives of cutting characters. It's a zero-sum game. You cut, as you say, 40 unique characters, then that's tons of resources that can go to something new. It might be new modes. It might be a gameplay overhaul. Or it might just be 40 newcomers. I can't really imagine a Smash game with 40 newcomers and people being pissed about it, unless the selection is just that bad.

Let's not kid ourselves, whatever the next game does, some people will just keep playing Ultimate, just like some are still playing Melee after 20 years. But that's no reason to hold the future of the franchise back.

 

[Idon]

There's also the fact that some representation in Smash is pretty lopsided, such as Gen 1 for Pokemon, Super Star for Kirby, Rare's games for Donkey Kong, and Awakening and swordfighters for Fire Emblem. A fresh start could help us dial back and mend some of these issues, instead of just going "I'm sorry, did you say MORE CONTENT?" Having a massive amount of stuff is cool and all, but that content isn't necessarily guaranteed to be good or balanced.

The weird circumstances around each Smash game is precisely how we got 8 Fire Emblem characters, and not one of them is Lyn.

And that's a crime.

 

[PeridotGX]

Here's Chapter 1 of the AI Dungeon story mode.

Spoiler: C1: Crossing Over

"ok" Mario says. "Tommorow, we shall go to obtain an alliance with them" (this was the only sentnce left I didn't feel like uploading another image.

there we go. That was... really ****ing weird. I didn't do much beyond making the Dimitri it gave me the one from Fire Emblem. The Blue Lion slave thing? no clue.

 

[AinsOoalGown]

The amount of compelling 1st party newcomers right now is pretty weak, if I’m being pretty honest.

Like I don’t mean that as an insult. But your headliners for Smash 6, as it stands now, are supporting cast members, Astral Chain, and Ring Fit Adventure. I think RFA and Astral Chain would be fantastic by the way, but one can not deny that the sheer impact that first party newcomers have had isn’t really there anymore. There isn’t a character that has taken on the focus or support of somebody like K.Rool or Ridley.

Sure, people like Waluigi or Bandanna Waddle Dee. But I think it’s hard to prove they’re similar to Ridley, or K.Rool.

I mean, I play Smash because of the gameplay and the characters. I love playing as Snake, and him not being in Wii U took out quite a bit of my enjoyment. That may be said by many folks who are currently playing Ultimate.

I feel as if “port” is a dirty word to people, though I don’t really get that. Ultimate wouldn’t be what it is if not for Wii U’s assets being...ported and used for Ultimate.

I could see a case for a new Smash if there was a compelling lineup for franchises or characters that could be added and really spice things up. But just looking at things, Chibi-Robo, Advance Wars, Golden Sun? Dead. Waluigi? Undeniably a community pick but also from a series with insane amounts of content. RFA and AC are bigger contenders, but aside from that it’s...new Fire Emblem and new Pokémon, both of which already have insane character content already.

But there are two things I’m thinking about- we have 4 characters left in a roster that will hover around 80 characters (several more if you consider skins like the Koopa Kids, Hero, and Alph), yet we’re thinking about a game in which 40 of them are cut to “freshen things up”. I don’t even know what that means!

If this topic is coming up because of boredom, then lads do I have a game you could play!

Smash is not just a game, it’s a marketing machine. Any first parties they cut, especially if they are stand alone for their franchise, then runs the risk of less focus around Smash. Then you have the historical side, like for R.O.B, or Duck Hunt. Then you have 3rd party partnerships (which are a large part as to why the Switch is more successful than the Wii U), which might stay together easily if you’re SEGA or Capcom, but are a smaller part of a bigger picture with Square Enix, for example.

I do think it’s likely that a “new” Smash game wouldn’t have as much content, but I don’t exactly see the problem with adding onto Ultimate, even as an enhanced port down the road, with new content. If characters are the #1 draw to Ultimate( which, they are), then no, adding Bandanna Waddle Dee or changing something to be wacky and exciting will not soften the blow of losing Cloud Strife and Midgar, or Joker and Mementos.

To me it comes down to this: Nintendo announces Smash in the future. What would get more hype?

A new Smash game that cuts 40 characters?

or

An enhanced port of Ultimate that adds a new mode or two, and 10 new characters and stages?

Given the success of Ultimate and the current pool of characters, I think I know which one sounds better to me.

EDIT: Yes, I am aware licensing costs are a thing. But that goes both ways. Sure, Nintendo pays to get content in Smash, but those brands also benefit from getting exposure in Smash, as well as building a consumer base on Nintendo platforms.

You are absolutely right, people here are absolutely deluded into thinking cutting content equals to magically get the newcomers they've been arking for now when most will be characters that dont exist yet and this same people will be complaining that they added Demighurg from 2025's Fire Emblem the 4 Tridents and the SuperOctopus from Splatoon 3 instead of what they wanted. Same with balancing, the competitive barely accepts change, anything too extreme will be rejected. Also worth noting after seing some of the replies trying to discredit this:

1- any licensing costs is still nothing comparing to the time, resources and money of a whole new game, so that "argument" is null
2- new game modes and new characters are both things nintendo is doing in their current deluxe versions so this "argument" is also null
3- We already got many most requested and iconic characters, so no, you can add 40 newcomers if you want it wont match the losses at all, people care about newcomers but they DO care about veterans, just as their requests last 2 smashes proved, they were not vocal now because everyone's in, doesnt mean everyone stopped caring, of COURSE they wont talk about veterans if they already made it.
4- the resourse argument is also null since a port, with all the licensing is still a walk in the park compared to a full new engine where everyone will waste resources being remade. Even with licensing and it being a port you still would have much more resources
5- Sakurai made VERY clear that the ballot played a role on the veterans, he already knew their value way before, but now, hes not cutting them unless he has no choice after this
6- Nintendo wont have wiiu ports next gen to lay into, they need something quick, SAFE and guaranteed early on the next switch successor
7-I like Bandana Dee and want him but anyone who thinks people would be fine by losing someone like Cloud for him is DELUDED and sheltered by this forum, the circling in this site is not even 0,1% of people interested in the game, and is known for having people who act contrarian and latch in the same things for years, were at a point where any newcomer wont make up for it number wise, as iconic as Crash is he wont make up for Megaman or Simon, as nice as Dee is he wont make up for Ridley etc, not to mention Nintendo may choose someone else like I said, they may feel like just promoting their next games as they enjoy doing.
8- Amounts of representative is a weird fan-rule that never played a role in the games even before Ultimate, thats the most random, pattern-y thing to care about because it has no value other than making value-less empty comparisions between series (that ignore stage and music anyways)

A port is both a safe bet AND the best possible option to anyone in this thread or who cares about smash currently so its kinda sad and weird that some people tricked themselves into not only thinking but ASKING for something they will hate and dislike later on, your dream game is not happening if that happens. People who "ask" for a reboot are like someone who dislikes how their hair was cut so next month he ask the hairdresser to grab a butcher knife and behead him so he'll have more free time to clean his nails too.

EDIT: I just want to add to I just remembered some old discussions I read on pokemon sites from around 8/9 years ago or so. I specifically remember fans writing about how there were too much pokemon and they should just cut a bunch, keep just the originals and the popular ones, maybe have a "reboot" and "fresh start" with Kanto too... and lo and behold something similar happened a few years later and not only the reaction was horrible and negative, I remember looking back at the site, and the users that were requesting it were now complaining about it, about the pokemon cut they gleefully asked for before, wonder if smash will have to suffer the same before we get our roster back or if Nintendo is intelligent enough to do the games as service model some users wisely predicted in this thread.

 

[SharkLord]

The weird circumstances around each Smash game is precisely how we got 8 Fire Emblem characters, and not one of them is Lyn.

And that's a crime.
View attachment 290780

Hey, cheer up! What we've got is pretty good.
-Lord (Sword)
-Lord (Sword)
-Lord (Sword)
-Lord (Sword)
-Mercenary Lord (BEEG Sword)
-Avatar (Mage/Sword)
-Avatar (Dragon/Sword)
-Avatar (Sword/Axe/Lance/Bow)

...

Point proven.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Hey, cheer up! What we've got is pretty good.
-Lord (Sword)
-Lord (Sword)
-Lord (Sword)
-Lord (Sword)
-Mercenary Lord (BEEG Sword)
-Avatar (Mage/Sword)
-Avatar (Dragon/Sword)
-Avatar (Sword/Axe/Lance/Bow)

...

Point proven.

Granted, Chrom, Roy and Ike play differently to Marth. Though Chrom is essentially played as a more aggressive Lucina.

 

[TwiceEXE]

Idk man, in your example, cutting Cloud to add Bandana Dee is a net gain imo, because a newcomer will always provide more excitement than a veteran; especially right not that veterans are taken for granted.

I hope the next Smash game cuts all the fan favs and replaces them with FE characters to see if you really believe newcomers are always more exciting than veterans.

Let's not kid ourselves, whatever the next game does, some people will just keep playing Ultimate, just like some are still playing Melee after 20 years. But that's no reason to hold the future of the franchise back.

People play Melee specifically because of the engine/gameplay. Some people may still play Ult but it won't compare to Melee in staying power unless Smash 6 is a disaster.

 

[SharkLord]

Granted, Chrom, Roy and Ike play differently to Marth. Though Chrom is essentially played as a more aggressive Lucina.

Yeah, that's why I noted Ike as a Mercenary Lord and how much bigger his sword is. I think Roy's potential is actually underused, but between him and Lyn, I'd have to go for the latter. Chrom would need some changes, because without Roy's fire, he just feels bland and empty.

 

[PeridotGX]

I hope the next Smash game cuts all the fan favs and replaces them with FE characters to see if you really believe newcomers are always more exciting than veterans.

People play Melee specifically because of the engine/gameplay. Some people may still play Ult but it won't compare to Melee in staying power unless Smash 6 is a disaster.

Aren't both MVC2 and 3 played competively?

 

[JCKirbs]

I think I would like a better emphasis on more single-player content for the next Smash game, along with general content for franchises which aren't just Mario, Pokemon, and Fire Emblem.

 

[Wigglerman]

Aren't both MVC2 and 3 played competively?

They were, not sure how much they see play these days. I'm more than certain both are played a LOT in dedicated locals. Groups who never stopped playing their game. Both are hugely beloved titles.

Smash has this weird thing that Melee is the only one with 'staying power' but I feel like Ultimate will have some serious lasting power due to the sheer scale of it.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I think, and this is probably a controversial opinion, that there are just too many characters in general. Full stop. I feel like the more fighters you have the more they get lost in a sea of faces. We have this phenomena where a new fighter comes out and then everyone forgets about it. It's like if you have a pile of toys, some of them are going to get burried beneath others.

View attachment 290762

People become less likely to experiment with different ones and the joy and excitement of a particular character getting in will be overshadowed by the next.

It was somewhat like this in the past but never this bad. I don't think it benefits a roster being this jam packed with fighters.

I don't think there's too many characters necessarily as there are too many reminders that A. The game originally had more of a Nintendo focus, B. The fanbase did too, and C. Moveset potential/recency can take priority over adding iconic characters in order for Ultimate to be a true celebration of gaming. You think the Ice Climbers would belong in some elite gaming hall of fame?