Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[PeridotGX]

Minecraft in Smash is something I didn'trealize would be so mindblowing until it happened. Yeah, I knew Minecraft was the biggest game in the world, but it didn't sink in until I saw this part of the trailer.

I don't know what made me make the connection, but at this very moment I was reminded of FitMC, and by extension 2b2t (the oldest anarchy server in Minecraft). I realized that all of that was now a part of Smash. Every minecraft lets-play? Part of Smash. Mine Diamonds? That's part of Smash. Every fan work and mod is technically a part of Smash now.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I don't have enough knowledge of Minecraft but I think it entirely depends on the connection to the Minecon event. It seemed to be specifically mentioned as "airing before Minecon" or whatever, which makes it seem possibly connected.

However, if it isn't then that's fair game. I just have to wonder what the costumes would be either way.

 

[3BitSaurus]

tbh, I like Max's newest video on the whole Steve debacle.

Eeeeh, I dunno.

Is there something I'm missing? Because I didn't find the reactions to Steve to be anywhere near as bad as people are making it out to be.

Here or otherwise, most people that aren't excited about him have had reactions similar to Max' own. At least to my knowledge.

 

[Shroob]

Eeeeh, I dunno.

Is there something I'm missing? Because I didn't find the reactions to Steve to be anywhere near as bad as people are making it out to be.

Here or otherwise, most people that aren't excited about him have had reactions similar to Max' own. At least to my knowledge.

Well...

 

[JamesDNaux]

Steve was going to look godawful no matter what they did but the choice to not even attempt to make him fit in is... something.

Every screenshot of him looks like a bad photoshop, not even his render is polished in any way. Maybe they tried and just couldn't get it to work, maybe it was a concession with most of the dev time going towards making his gimmick work that they just reused his actual model to save on resources. Who knows.

People comparing it to G&W are way off the mark, G&W took a hell of a lot of work to make... work in 3D, and he still fits in with the style of Smash.

 

[PSIGuy]

I think a better alternative would be to use the promo-style renders when not on the Minecraft stage (ie flat textures that change color based on lighting) and then use the busier game-accurate textures while on the Minecraft stage. As is he's honestly kinda hard to look at. He doesn't even have the same rimlighting other characters have to make them stand out. A slightly shinier, plastic look would help.

I wouldn't be surprised if making everything identical pixel per pixel was in the contract, though.

 

[Gazorpazorpfield]

Eeeeh, I dunno.

Is there something I'm missing? Because I didn't find the reactions to Steve to be anywhere near as bad as people are making it out to be.

Here or otherwise, most people that aren't excited about him have had reactions similar to Max' own. At least to my knowledge.

Yeah I dunno. Sure there's some disappointment, but with Steve's reputation I was honestly expecting more outcry, when in reality most of what I've seen is positive. If nothing else, it's certainly a far cry from Byleth's historic reception.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Well...

I mean... some of these are definitely low quality bait. And I don't think piling up a few reactions like that in a YT video is something that's representative of actual general reaction.

 

[GaroMaster]

You guys do realize that you can like both 3rd parties AND 1st parties, right?

Sometimes it seems like narratives get built that one side is the "oppressed gamer". You can like everything, you know.

Damn, dude.

I feel called out on because I only want 4th parties.

Oh well. He is inevitable.

Spoiler: NOOT NOOT

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Also I really don't think Steve has any affect of any sort on other characters getting in.

Dante and Crash are cool characters, but they're not Minecraft. Both could easily happen. Do I expect both? Eh, maybe. That would be a lot of popular characters in the same pass.

I've said it numerous times: Pepsiman is in Smash there are probably a few criteria to look out for. They may not all happen, but they're what has happened before.

• promotional 1st parties
• a new 3rd party company (Activision, ArcSystemworks, Koei Tecmo, Marvelous)
• a promotional 3rd party
• another big 3rd party

I mean, we've got 4 more picks to go. There's a lot that can happen. That said, I think the most likely one to see happen is a character from an entirely new company, similar to Banjo or Terry last time. It's not that that would be the specific reason to choose the character, but I do think Nintendo is trying to get a good selection of brands involved in Smash. They'll never be able to tie all of these brands together in the same place, so I can't imagine they'd want to only stick to ones they already have for the remainder.

Lastly, I'm not gonna spin some theory that ONLY "new worlds" are possible, but please face the reality of exactly how each pack is structured, and realize that some characters simply inherently fit that model better than others. I'm not ****ting on your most wanted. I'm just pointing out the consistency among each of the 7 DLC packs we've gotten.

 

[RGFS]

love how everyone suddenly pretends Smash is a mishmash of styles and doesn’t attempt to update and integrate the best versions of every character into a cohesive art style, resulting in renders so good they literally become the characters most acknowledged look by the public

they literally changed Bayonetta’s proportions so she’s not a freakish giraffe, updated Pit to match how characters like Link and Samus has developed over the years and deliberately picked iconic designs like original Pac Man, NES Simon and Rondo of Blood Richter when they all have newer more relevant designs. characters have been threatened with removal over their designs, that’s how serious this **** gets

and then there’s Steve who’s meant to be ugly and any attempt to update or integrate him is an injustice??? what. there’s “loving recreation” and then there’s Steve.

Cell shading is really one of the few big things Smash decides to always take away from characters to Smashify them. They make realistic looking characters like Snake and Fox a bit less detailed and make cartoony characters like 2000s Mario and Toon Link more detailed.

Steve falls in line with Toon Link and Game and Watch where it's very important his look is captured faithfully to fit they're game's aesthetic. The most you could have done for Steve is given him a realistically textured shirt and pants like how Toon Link looks but that would look ridiculous. Anything beats Grotesque Steve though.

The only other thing they could've done is given him a more cinematically expressive face like in trailers but it's obvious the team wanted to keep it very familiar to the main game itself. The blocky look is cartoony but the textures are very detailed for the Minecraft universe.

Nether Update: Official Trailer

Are you ready to get to know the darker side of Minecraft? On June 23 the Nether Update brings the heat to an already fiery dimension on Xbox One, PlayStatio...

www.youtube.com

The only series that ever bothered me on this fitting in regard is Pokemon. Half of the characters got realistic fur and the other half just didn't.

If anyone has ugly bacterized models in this game, it'd be the plastic looking Ultimate renditions of Donkey Kong and Bowser. Their models and textures simply do not play nice with the games lighting so they either look like rubber, oversaturated or both. They don't even look like their own renders I can't be the only one who's noticed this right?

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

-promotional 1st parties
-a new 3rd party company (Activision, ArcSystemworks, Koei Tecmo, Marvelous)
-a promotional 3rd party
-another big 3rd party

1-I honestly can't think of any promotional Nintendo newcomers, outside of the Token Gen 8 Pokémon which i see as less and less likely. I guess a Byleth reveal at the last minute is what i would expect.

2-Also Disney, since Sora is owned by him (but don't treat him like a Disney character)

3-Aside from the Luminary, i can't think of any character that fits this critera either, and Luminary's game was a polished port. I guess when "Crash Bandicoot 4, the Switcheroo edition" happens it could coincide with Crash's reveal?

4-At this point if we another "Big" third party im guessing it's gonna be another western one, because almost all the japanese ones are in Smash or are big just in Japan. Doesn't mean they are unlikely (and it's hard to compete with Steve) though i guess one could consider recent gaming stars like Kazuma Kiryu, who has gotten big in the last part of the previous decade.

 

[toonito]

like i don't see the issue with how Steve looks in Smash...

maybe I'm missing something but how was he "supposed" to look and move?

 

[I.D.]

I know people don't like having pointed out Smash DLC cycles are frontloaded (even though it's true) but in this case we just got the most sold individual title of all time so we're inevitably going down from here.

 

[StarBot]

I mean I’m fine with the way he looks buuuuut...

Just cleaning up the pixelation does a lot of favors for him. As he stands he looks just like he does in OG Minecraft which, depending on your tastes is either faithful or lazy.

Why is he whitewashed

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Woah dudes. 40,000 likes on 9,274 comments.

Guess I'm pretty cool.

 

[N3ON]

What would you want them to do with Steve though?

I feel like if they tried to "smasify" Steve, it wouldn't go well, and it wouldn't be as faithful to Minecraft.

I think the faithful design that Smash gave Steve fits extremely well, and it makes him pop out more.

That is just my opinion, though.

I think some of the authentic fan renders are as fine a place to start as any. It's interesting that so few people, to my knowledge, took exception to any of the mockups which depicted him in his other design prior to all this.

In fact, they mostly received very positive feedback from the fans.

Curious how opinions so often seem to narrow and mirror Smash only after the fact.

 

[Deleted member]

I am excited for the Mii Costumes, but not going to lie, I just want to play Steve so bad man.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Hey so

you know how some Japanese stores pulled the volume 2 cards?

something tells me they’re gonna go out of stock once they’re back up

Minecraft is just as big in Japan right? Or at least nothing to sneeze at?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Minecraft is just as big in Japan right? Or at least nothing to sneeze at?

It is. Its worldwide popular like how Crash is.

 

[RGFS]

I know people don't like having pointed out Smash DLC cycles are frontloaded (even though it's true) but in this case we just got the most sold individual title of all time so we're inevitably going down from here.

This is the first time I hope it's mainly frontloaded, This pack is going till the end of 2021 so I do hope we get some of the best picks first and then we slowly just get simpler things. It's not even about really wanting to play as the characters, it's the suspense of wanting to know who they are.

 

[Deleted member]

People comparing it to G&W are way off the mark, G&W took a hell of a lot of work to make... work in 3D, and he still fits in with the style of Smash.

Well Steve took a lot of work as well. Sakurai literally had to reprogram every stage just for this character.

Also it is not like Smash has one style. There are realistic characters and unrealistic. Sakurai wasn't being lazy at all, he just wanted to be faithful to the game. And it worked extremely well in my opinion.

 

[PSIGuy]

I know people don't like having pointed out Smash DLC cycles are frontloaded (even though it's true) but in this case we just got the most sold individual title of all time so we're inevitably going down from here.

Watch as the last reveal is, for the third time in a row, a Fire Emblem character from an upcoming/unreleased game like Corrin and Byleth were.

 

[MooMew64]

You guys do realize that you can like both 3rd parties AND 1st parties, right?

Sometimes it seems like narratives get built that one side is the "oppressed gamer". You can like everything, you know.

Impossible! We must choose our allegiances, and then face off in the great "Keyboard Wars"!

For my most waaaaaannnnntttteeeeeed!!!

Spoiler

I like a bunch of third party and first party options, lol. I think both bring interesting things to the table!

 

[Deleted member]

Watch as the last reveal is, for the third time in a row, a Fire Emblem character from an upcoming/unreleased game like Corrin and Byleth were.

Can you stop constantly shoving pessimism down people's throats please?

Also I wouldn't count Byleth as an "upcoming" reveal. Sure, Sakurai did play Three Houses quite early, but Byleth was released well after Three Houses was released.

 

[Shroob]

I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone anywhere make this yet

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So curious question to everyone? What characters are you certain to be among the last four?

Me? I'm thinking Ryu Hayabusa and a Gen 8 Pokemon.

 

[Idon]

Watch as the last reveal is, for the third time in a row, a Fire Emblem character from an upcoming/unreleased game like Corrin and Byleth were.

THIS IS HOW SHIN MEGAMI TENSEI V WINS.

 

[N3ON]

Also it is not like Smash has one style. There are realistic characters and unrealistic. Sakurai wasn't being lazy at all, he just wanted to be faithful to the game. And it worked extremely well in my opinion.

There is no one style across Smash as a series, but each game clearly does have its own artistic direction under which the characters are designed. At least, since Brawl. Brawl's was darker and more detailed to align with Twilight Princess and Metal Gear. Smash 4 was very colourful, saturated, and more simplistic. And Ultimate is more pastel-adjacent and washed out.

The games clearly have their own artistic styles. Like I said yesterday, imagine a Smash 4 character was dropped into Brawl. It would look off.

There's even a Sakurai interview somewhere where he talks about getting the characters to all fit within whatever the game's art direction dictates so as to achieve some visual cohesion, but tracking it down would be a pain. Though perhaps someone has a link to it. I believe it was regarding Brawl.

 

[SneakyLink]

So curious question to everyone? What characters are you certain to be among the last four?

Me? I'm thinking Ryu Hayabusa and a Gen 8 Pokemon.

Absolutely no one since I've learned trying to predict things never goes right for me.

Though if I had to say someone I'm going with Otto Matic.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I don’t really like him on the character banner either. I know it’s supposed to be a joke but it looks really off. I wish they would’ve just drawn him.

He looks too much like a meme edit on the banner. Some brush strokes would've been nice.

 

[Blargg888]

Watch as the last reveal is, for the third time in a row, a Fire Emblem character from an upcoming/unreleased game like Corrin and Byleth were.

*Roy

Fates (JP) and Three Houses were out by the time Corrin and Byleth were revealed. Yes, I get that they're still promotional picks, but still.

 

[Deleted member]

THIS IS HOW SHIN MEGAMI TENSEI V WINS.

It would be hilarious imagining Steve and Dante in the same pass. Both completely different characters with different stories and audiences, yet they are together in the pass.

I feel like Dante, Travis Touchdown, or Sol Badguy has a good chance of being CP8 right now.

There is no one style across Smash as a series, but each game clearly does have its own artistic direction under which the characters are designed. At least, since Brawl. Brawl's was darker and more detailed to align with Twilight Princess and Metal Gear. Smash 4 was very colourful, saturated, and more simplistic. And Ultimate is more pastel-adjacent and washed out.

The games clearly have their own artistic styles. Like I said yesterday, imagine a Smash 4 character was dropped into Brawl. It would look off.

There's even a Sakurai interview somewhere where he talks about getting the characters to all fit within whatever the game's art direction dictates so as to achieve some visual cohesion, but tracking it down would be a pain. Though perhaps someone has a link to it. I believe it was regarding Brawl.

Honestly, how would they make Steve fit in Ultimate's style though? Someone suggested the promotional art, but honestly, I can see people still complaining over that. I think Sakurai made the best decision on what to go with Steve.

Also Steve being different and blocky compared to the others is quite charming in a way. If everything has to be "Smashified", do you want Mr. Game and Watch to have eyes and ears now?

 

[JamesDNaux]

Also it is not like Smash has one style. There are realistic characters and unrealistic. Sakurai wasn't being lazy at all, he just wanted to be faithful to the game. And it worked extremely well in my opinion.

What people who think Steve looks fine because Smash has characters from all kinds of styles think Smash looks like:

Characters may come from a wide variety of games but Smash takes liberties with designs to make them all fit in with the Smash style. This isn't Mugen.

 

[PSIGuy]

Can you stop constantly shoving pessimism down people's throats please?

Also I wouldn't count Byleth as an "upcoming" reveal. Sure, Sakurai did play Three Houses quite early, but Byleth was released well after Three Houses was released.

"pessismism"
Bruh I'm literally using the same reasoning Sakurai did for their inclusions
[Corrin]
After internal analysis, we decided that if we’re going to make DLC, we would choose a character from a soon-to-be-released new game. After consulting many times with Nintendo and looking at the upcoming release schedule, Fire Emblem Fates was in just the right spot. It’s already been released in Japan, but is yet to be released overseas, making it a prime candidate in terms of timing. I personally felt that having too many Fire Emblem characters was a problem, but after talking it over with the development staff and discussing logistics, I felt certain that I could make them a fun character.
[Byleth]
For this fighter, an important factor was being able to turn the protagonist of a game that people are playing right now into a fighter that players could experience immediately in Smash Bros. As such, I tried my hand at working on the character while the source game was still in development.

Recency over anything else was the reason for their inclusion. This has happened every DLC cycle. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing based on timing, it's just probably going to happen and whether they use the slot for something exciting or not is an entirely different matter.

 

[SirBillyBob]

There is no one style across Smash as a series, but each game clearly does have its own artistic direction under which the characters are designed. At least, since Brawl. Brawl's was darker and more detailed to align with Twilight Princess and Metal Gear. Smash 4 was very colourful, saturated, and more simplistic. And Ultimate is more pastel-adjacent and washed out.

The games clearly have their own artistic styles. Like I said yesterday, imagine a Smash 4 character was dropped into Brawl. It would look off.

There's even a Sakurai interview somewhere where he talks about getting the characters to all fit within whatever the game's art direction dictates so as to achieve some visual cohesion, but tracking it down would be a pain. Though perhaps someone has a link to it. I believe it was regarding Brawl.

Here's the CEDEC article that talks about making Smash designs look cohesive. Do note it's in Japanese.
https://www.4gamer.net/games/412/G041234/20190906163/

 

[SharkLord]

I've just come to accept that Steve as a character is built around being a stupid ****post that looks like a fan edit.

 

[Deleted member]

What people who think Steve looks fine because Smash has characters from all kinds of styles think Smash looks like:

View attachment 288064

Characters may come from a wide variety of games but Smash takes liberties with designs to make them all fit in with the Smash style. This isn't Mugen.

You just don't get it, do you?

Steve is a different case. What do you want Steve to look like? Do you want Steve to look cursed like this?

Banjo-Kazooie (I know he is 3D, but Smash gave him a great look.) and Simon Belmont have old designs, yes, but they can perfectly translate to a fresh 3D character while maintaining their core aspects.


Steve is a very different case. If you make him look more realistic, then he loses what he represented. Minecraft is a blocky world with blocky characters. Minecraft is known for blocks. So Steve has to stay blocky.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Hey so

you know how some Japanese stores pulled the volume 2 cards?

something tells me they’re gonna go out of stock once they’re back up

Minecraft is just as big in Japan right? Or at least nothing to sneeze at?

Minecraft is massive in Japan, the Vita version of the game is the best selling game on the system over there and is the best selling third party game on Switch in Japan (though Monster Hunter Rise will likely change that). Not sure how PS4 sales of the game are over there though.

 

[Shroob]

I'm more surprised they gave Steve his beard back.

He hasn't had that ingame for a long time iirc, but he's still got it in a lot of promo art.