Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Trevenant]

Eh, Min Min's complexity came in her control scheme, not her moves and the **** she's able to do with them. Steve has such a ridiculous amount of moves that we can't grasp how the hell Steve works to the point we need the presentation to explain

True. Min Min had obviously the different ARMS, the switching and the dragon. She does have the smash aerials like Robin but that does come back to the ARMS. By complexity, I mean level as in he will probably require a similar amount of effort to learn but the execution is undoubtedly different. I'm still wondering what else he has up his sleeve since like Hero we never found out all the spells he had until the presentation and since Minecraft has so much potential even beyond what was shown that we are probably yet to see some stuff at least. I suppose we'll see tomorrow

 

[Dinoman96]

The funny thing is that when you look at Ori, it's still sometimes referred to as an indie game, even though Microsoft owns the IP. The first game was even unveiled for Switch at an IndieWorld last year.

I do think it helps that, unlike Mojang or Rare, Moon Studios isn't actually apart of Xbox Game Studios, so it's more of a grey area there.

 

[CannonStreak]

Steve is definitely complicated. He seems to be able to mine stuff from the ground, block placement and crafting. He probably has stuff we still haven't seen yet. He is probably going to be similar to Min Min in terms of complexity.

Now Min Min was complicated! I do think some aspects of Steve will be simple, or simple enough, but he may be more complex than even Min Min.

 

[N3ON]

I wonder if the reason Steve looks the way he does is because Mojang has some limits on what he can look like.

Idk, even Mojang has made him look cleaner before.

It's weird because it's like choosing the in-game render when you have the capability of choosing the promotional render.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I wonder if the reason Steve looks the way he does is because Mojang has some limits on what he can look like.

So you are saying he would rather have him stay an ugly block and clash hard with the game rather then let him blend in?

 

[Goombaic]

The funny thing is that when you look at Ori, it's still sometimes referred to as an indie game, even though Microsoft owns the IP. The first game was even unveiled for Switch at an IndieWorld last year.

I do think it helps that, unlike Mojang or Rare, Moon Studios isn't actually apart of Xbox Game Studios, so it's more of a grey area there.

That is a weird situation. The most similar case to Ori is Cadence of Hyrule, which is definitely an indie game despite using the Zelda IP.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

It's not weird at all. Steve always looked pretty rough around the edges. I think it's his darker skin tone combined with what's supposed to be a 5:00 shadow...I think.

What gets me most is his eyebrow area and arms. I don't even know what those are supposed to be. The bridge of his nose? Muscles? Dirt? I have no idea.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's weird because it's like choosing the in-game render when you have the capability of choosing the promotional render.

Honestly, I think the promo style is super bland. A balance between the in game and promo styles would probably have been the way to go, and what we got is better than full promo since it at least doesn't look like plastic.

 

[SKX31]

Well, they did import Min Min's model too, didn't they? Though they cleaned it up a bit. Thankfully, ARMS and Smash have similar aesthetics.

But on the other hand, creating a model can't be that hard. Every wave we get a handful of new models in the Miis. And some of the DLC characters even debuted new models just as background characters, like Banjo and, afaik, Joker.

Plus, all things considered, shifting Minecraft Steve to Smash Steve would only entail fairly minimal alterations, when compared to some of the other characters they've modelled. And I bet you there is some small difference somewhere - indicating some changes were made.

It does seem like this character was quite work and resource intensive, I just don't think the actual character model is the area they'd choose to skimp on. It's one of the most important aspects. It does seem like it was a deliberate artistic choice to me, just one I wish they'd not made.

They did import Min Min's model from ARMS IIRC.

The character was quite work and resource intensive already by virtue of the block mechanic, but we also have to remember: the character comes with a direct upgrading system as well resource gathering / management. And as SMAASH! Puppy noted, his cart doubles as a command grab. A version of Incineroar's Alolan Whip one can build on the stage.

And we don't know yet the full extent of what he's going to do. Those three factors conspire to produce a really strange character conceptually. That's pretty much why I believe Steve's model is so basic - the character was so time-consuming to create and properly balance (assuming he isn't / level borken on release - I doubt he is given Ultimate's balancing) that there simply wasn't enough time to alter or create a new Steve model. Sakurai's "Wizardry" reflects all of that work needed to create the character and make him / her work period, so the model might've just taken a massive backseat a la Morrigan.

It's fully understandable that the immersion can be really wonky with that big of a contrast. While I would've preferred another take on Steve's model, I personally (and I can only speak for myself) am not that fussed about that because my view is more gameplay-focused. If one can do crazy stuff with the character (see Hero) I'm a happy camper.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

I’m crossing my fingers for a Hollow Knight Mii Swordfighter costume, with a new remix. Hope Sakurai-God heard my pleads.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

Is it bad that I thought that this was a picture of Pauline?

Is it bad that I thought that picture was too clear?

 

[N3ON]

Honestly, I think the promo style is super bland. A balance between the in game and promo styles would probably have been the way to go, and what we got is better than full promo since it at least doesn't look like plastic.

If achieving parity looks-wise with the rest of the cast makes the character look worse, I'd say that's an indictment of the intrinsic design.

 

[Calamitas]

Idk, even Mojang has made him look cleaner before.

It's weird because it's like choosing the in-game render when you have the capability of choosing the promotional render.

So this isn't really related to anything you said, but I swear: Everytime I see Steve or one of these Minecraft characters wielding any kind of object like that pickaxe, my mind immediately goes to

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

One more thing I would like to bring up about Steve's moveset: At one point, he had a gold pickaxe, which means that he has an entire "power level" just for styling on opponents.

 

[MBRedboy31]

A side note regarding Steve's model is that he and Alex can blink their eyes in Smash. Their faces do not emote at all in Minecraft Java Edition, although I thiiink they can blink their eyes in more recent versions of Bedrock Edition (can someone else confirm this?) Regardless, Steve's design in Smash is based on much older versions of Minecraft, so... yeah, there's your potential small modification.

(Even though they are able to close their eyes in Smash, they still sleep with their eyes open, which is rather comical and very game-accurate.)

 

[MooMew64]

So this isn't really related to anything you said, but I swear: Everytime I see Steve or one of these Minecraft characters wielding any kind of object like that pickaxe, my mind immediately goes to

You can't say that they don't firmly grasp it, that's for sure.

 

[Goombaic]

although I thiiink they can blink their eyes in more recent versions of Bedrock Edition (can someone else confirm this?)

Yes, they can do that among other things.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If achieving parity looks-wise with the rest of the cast makes the character look worse, I'd say that's an indictment of the intrinsic design.

I'd argue it fits better due to the increased detail, and I think a more refined version of the in game style would look better than a modified version of the promo style.

 

[SKX31]

One more thing I would like to bring up about Steve's moveset: At one point, he had a gold pickaxe, which means that he has an entire "power level" just for styling on opponents.

Ah, so in other wods Steve is the true xXxMLG360NoScopexXx character.

I can't wait to play online just to run into Steve players who try too hard to style on people. (the /s feels self-evident)

 

[Gazorpazorpfield]

epic newcomer ranking, split into 'objective' and personal lists

Spoiler: Personal Ranking

S - The Pog Zone: Nobody tbh. A certain green man or sunbro could fix that

A - Actively Wanted: , Steve

B - Happy to See/Ended Up Liking: , , , ,

C - Somewhat Interested or Impartial: , ,

D - Meh: ,

F - Anyone Else Pls: ,

Not bad; it may look neutral or even negative, but I don't get excited over many Smash characters, so Ultimate's roster is actually pretty good for me. DLC so far has been a mixed bag, though.

Spoiler: 'Objective' Ranking

Basically how good I think an addition is from an objective standpoint

S - All Time Greats: , Steve

A - Very Good Choice: , ,

B - Valuable Additions: , , , ,

C - Kinda Disposable: , , ,

D - Probably Unwise:

i didn't think it would just be byleth alone down there, but they were the only largely poorly received character IMO

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

One more thing I would like to bring up about Steve's moveset: At one point, he had a gold pickaxe, which means that he has an entire "power level" just for styling on opponents.

Does gold have some extra significance in Minecraft or something? It just seemed like a different power level for items to me (in the Smash context).

 

[Shroob]

Does gold have some extra significance in Minecraft or something? It just seemed like a different power level for items to me (in the Smash context).

Gold items are better than steel(Faster/more damage), but they degrade faster since gold's a softer metal.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Gold items are better than steel(Faster/more damage), but they degrade faster since gold's a softer metal.

Huh that's like the one time I see gold be portrayed realistically in a video game

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Does gold have some extra significance in Minecraft or something? It just seemed like a different power level for items to me (in the Smash context).

Gold is a pretty garbo material for tools on top of being somewhat hard to find (or at least it would be if it wasn't the most common material found on enemy tools).

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Shout out to those who get the references.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[MBRedboy31]

Does gold have some extra significance in Minecraft or something? It just seemed like a different power level for items to me (in the Smash context).

Gold tools have the least durability of all tools, although gold pickaxes, axes, and shovels have the fastest block breaking speed of their type. They do the same damage as wood tools when used as a weapon, however. Gold also has the highest enchantability stat of all materials, which means you are more likely to get good enchantments on them, although why bother when their durability is still so abysmal?

Gold armor does have a real use, though, which is that wearing at least one piece of gold armor makes Piglins be neutral to you instead of hostile.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Shout out to those who get the references.

proud sigh What a trooper.

 

[Thewafflemaker2000]

Steve still started as a indie character and to me that’s pretty inspiring how successful he became

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I find the latest news interesting with Koei Tecmo possibly being talked to about Smash. It doesn't necessarily mean that Ryu Hayabusa is definitely going to be DLC, but if the talks are actually something then that lends itself to the fact that IAmShifty (was that his name?) could actually be onto something.

I don't know that I would believe that Volume 2 was in the works before Volume 1 had been started or something, as talks can take some time in certain situations. But it definitely has some potential to put the talks into a way of like, some of these picks might have been on a shortlist of sorts.

If, for whatever reason, characters WERE decided on and Nintendo has been playing 4D chess then like, bruh. ****'s crazy.

 

[SirBillyBob]

One reason I can see them not changing Steve's model to fit with Ultimate's art style is because then he would stand out from his stage. Which would then require changing every block in his stage to more resemble him. And at that point it might upset some because he doesn't resemble his home series enough. Other characters don't have this problem.

Here's a rough mock-up to show what I mean.

 

[KillerCage]

Beehold!
The optimal ingredient to my utmost satisfaction from tomorrow's presentation...
View attachment 288016
BEES

Vi is not amused.

 

[SharkLord]

Aight, hot take time: I still think Heihachi has a chance. Sure, he got the Mii back, but I believe he can still rise from the ashes.

Spoiler: My Reasoning

Heihachi saunters onto the scene.
"Yadadadada, it is GOOD DAY to be not dead!"
"PAW!" Nightmare shoots Heihachi with whatever old projectile weapons they used back then, I'm too lazy to look it up. "You are dead!"
"I AM DEAD!"
"Hehehehehe. Aw ----"
Nightmare's celebration is cut short as Klonoa appears. He hastily throws away his gun.
"(GASP) The Heihachi is dead?"
"Yes (Sandvich). I AM DEAD!"
"Why is the Heihachi Dead?"
"I dunno."
"I think it was-"
"SHH! You are dead!"
"ok" wlkefgwqelhfqefhqwefhqw;hef (That's the sound of Heihachi drilling into the ground)
Lloyd drives in with his truck no I don't know where he got a truck don't ask. "What's up, you ****ers?! Who's up for a- What the bloody hell just happened?"
"The Heihachi is dead!"
"The Heihachi is dead?!"
"Correct!"
Applause from nowhere in particular.
"SO, Did you see the Murderer?"
"No, sorry mate."
Klonoa stands up and slams his fist on the table. "I will find him. I will capture him. And no one will ever die again."
"Ah, well that's nice."
"I am DAMN PROUD right now."
Clapping
"AteeeeeeEEEEEEN-TION!" It is Solaire of Astora. "The Heihachi is dead!'
"We know."
"Who killed him?"
"We don't know."
"I WILL FIND CLUES!" sniff sniff sniff "What's that? A weapon! That thing is the reason why the Heihachi is DEAD!"
"The Heihachi is dead?"
"YES! He DIED!"
"AH!"
"Incoming!" Solaire is run over with an ambulance, Kira-style.
“Raus, raus!” KOS-MOS flops out of the ambulance and shoves Klonoa away because she’s now a medic robot now apparently. “Move, NOW!”
kiss
“Ha, ha, HA, HEI-” oof Heihachi go boom
“In my medical opinion, that Heihachi is dead!”
“KOS-MOS, what happened?”
“My professional opinion?” le point “The Heihachi was KILLED!”
“oh god.” Panic
“I’m sure it’s nothing to worry about.” boing
“Well, now what?”
Suddenly, Joka. “Clipidy-clop m----------- ka-BOOM!”
“Oh, come on!”
“Lookathis. The freaking Heihachi’s DEAD!”
…
“What do you think of that?”
…
“Ahm-”
“Yes, yes , Joka.”
“Yeah!”
“GO HOME!”
Bedededep (That’s the sound of Ghadius’ car I don’t know where he got that car either probably same as Lloyd)
“AW, COME ON! Pfft frickingunbelievablenoseriouslyyouallsuck” car crash boom
“Okay, let’s get back to the point.”
Heihachi pokes Heihachi’s dead body with a stick. “I think Heihachi is dead.”
“THE HEIHACHI IS DEAD?!?”
“(Gasp) JOKA! Iwillhealyou!” boom
“Ooh! Seriously: Who killed Heihachi?!”
Agumon is intensely drinking alcohol apparently he Digivolved into AlcoholAgumon or something. “It was ME!”
Collective gasp
“YES! I did it like this:” BOOM Agumon shoots Lloyd in the face with a gun that shoots bullets because he Digivolved into GunAgumon now.
“WHOOP-DE-DOO!”
Mourning
Glugglugglug BURP “That’s a joke, lads.”
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Glugglugglug BUUURP “It was y-” burb “HIM!” He points at Nightmare.
GASP “How did you know?”
“I didn’t!” burp “That was a joke too!” Glugglugglug
Nightmare breaks into a fit of maniacal laughter as Agumon dies of alcohol poisoning and Digivolves into DeadAgumon.
“That’s right! It was me!”
“You monster!”
“But WHYYYYYY?!”
“Because you’re FAT, boi! And another thing; You’re UGLY!”
They argue. Klonoa shrugs. It’s tradition.
“NIGHTMARE”
“Ah dammit Heihachi F--- OFF! You are DEAD.”
“NO, U! PAW HAHA” Nightmare is dead.
“You are DEAD. Not big surprise.”
“...Well, that was idiotic. Off to hang myself!” Klonoa does the noose rope liven’t thingy but he’s too short so he has to double jump off a Moo and also he does a cool flip thingy too. “Watch and lear-Urk!”
“I am ALIIIIVE!”
“Is nice.”
…
“Yes, this is stupid.”

There you go. My rock solid-No, diamond solid reasoning. No reasoning more solid than drawing upon Tekken canon by recreating Heavy is Dead but using Bandai-Namco characters.

Why am I wasting my life on this

 

[Evil Trapezium]

One reason I can see them not changing Steve's model to fit with Ultimate's art style is because then he would stand out from his stage. Which would then require changing every block in his stage to more resemble him. And at that point it might upset some because he doesn't resemble his home series enough. Other characters don't have this problem.

Here's a rough mock-up to show what I mean.
View attachment 288043

I mean the solution is already in the game. Boxing ring has different shaders to other stages.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

One reason I can see them not changing Steve's model to fit with Ultimate's art style is because then he would stand out from his stage. Which would then require changing every block in his stage to more resemble him. And at that point it might upset some because he doesn't resemble his home series enough. Other characters don't have this problem.

The promo style's lack of detail combined with the high saturation would simply cause the entire stage to look like it's made of hard plastic, and not resemble literally any of the games in the series. They probably could have done with higher quality textures, but I think the promo look in general would have just been super bland, and look pretty weird with the lack of detail where it normally is.

I mean the solution is already in the game. Boxing ring has different shaders to other stages.

That wouldn't really stop him from looking like an off-brand minifigure.

 

[KillerCage]

Shout out to those who get the references.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

HE DIDN'T KILL THE JOKE!

 

[N3ON]

I'd argue it fits better due to the increased detail, and I think a more refined version of the in game style would look better than a modified version of the promo style.

Ok. But Mojang don't flip a coin between promo Steve and in-game Steve when deciding what to put on the cover of their game. There is a reason Mojang and their marketing department felt a cleaner picture of Steve advertises the product better. Because they feel something more visually appealing will attract more customers. In fact, every single box art has featured a more cleaned up version of whatever character it is.

They clearly do not feel that to be an inferior design. In fact, their actions would suggest that version resonates better with an audience. The majority of fan mockups prior to Steve's inclusion suggest agreement. The majority of Steve merchandise suggests agreement. Most of these feature cleaner Steve. Not all of them, and Smash went for the in-game design.

So I do believe this is a case of many (not all) simply wanting whatever they got, no matter which version had come to fruition.

But ultimately it comes down to opinions, there's no right or wrong. And I don't doubt people who say they like it this way. But, I believe in a control group, the Smash fanbase would gravitate towards the option that feels more like a Smash version, and thus I don't believe the unused option would've spawned this pronounced of a dichotomy, since it would be upholding the status quo. Which is generally favoured for a reason.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

That wouldn't really stop him from looking like an off-brand minifigure.

No but at least he would look at little cleaner on other stages. Just include the dirty shaders in the Minecraft stage.

 

[TheAJJohnson]

epic newcomer ranking, split into 'objective' and personal lists

Spoiler: Personal Ranking

S - The Pog Zone: Nobody tbh. A certain green man or sunbro could fix that

A - Actively Wanted: , Steve

B - Happy to See/Ended Up Liking: , , , ,

C - Somewhat Interested or Impartial: , ,

D - Meh: ,

F - Anyone Else Pls: ,

Not bad; it may look neutral or even negative, but I don't get excited over many Smash characters, so Ultimate's roster is actually pretty good for me. DLC so far has been a mixed bag, though.

Spoiler: 'Objective' Ranking

Basically how good I think an addition is from an objective standpoint

S - All Time Greats: , Steve

A - Very Good Choice: , ,

B - Valuable Additions: , , , ,

C - Kinda Disposable: , , ,

D - Probably Unwise:

i didn't think it would just be byleth alone down there, but they were the only largely poorly received character IMO

Move Terry up and Piranha Plant down and I'm on board.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So I do believe this is a case of many (not all) simply wanting whatever they got, no matter which version had come to fruition.

Just so we're clear, I do genuinely believe that the look they went with looks more in line with Super Smash Bros. Ultimate than the promo look rather than just liking it because it's what we got. Maybe I'd need to see an actual attempt at adapting the design rather than just

but I think the lack of detail would make him look incredibly odd since he's humanoid, and the other humanoid characters got detail added to them.

No but at least he would look at little cleaner on other stages. Just include the dirty shaders in the Minecraft stage.

I think it'd look worse.

 

[N3ON]

Just so we're clear, I do genuinely believe that the look they went with looks more in line with Super Smash Bros. Ultimate than the promo look rather than just liking it because it's what we got. Maybe I'd need to see an actual attempt at adapting the design rather than just
but I think the lack of detail would make him look incredibly odd since he's humanoid, and the other humanoid characters got detail added to them.

That's fine - I'm not here trying to guess who is steadfast in their belief that this is preferable and who would be saying the same either way. Who specifically isn't really the point. And like I said, there are people who would maintain that one specific version is better regardless.

I just believe that in the timeline in which we got the other version, some of the same people would be defending that as the ideal choice.