Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SirCamp]

Yeah as much as I think ATs are entirely possible, I wouldn’t expect their models to be used for a playable character at all except possibly as a skeleton. But even then I’m not sure if that would be useful since it’s not like the AT models have any fighter/move data mapped to them. Forgive me if that doesn’t make sense. I don’t really know what I’m talking about there and just sort of making some assumptions. Lol

Really the main point I was making was that a third party character making it in game as an AT is actually a pretty big deal. And it strikes me that this may indicate something as to Sakurai’s/Nintendo’s feelings towarda the character in a way that doesn’t really follow for first party ATs. There has to be a compelling reason to negotiate for a character you don’t own to appear in your game. Whereas a first party character could easily be added simply because they thought of a neat mechanic to attach to it (like say, the Moon). This makes it seem more likely (though not a given) to me that they could have been consolations for characters that just didn’t make it in. And now that things have changed who knows what the future holds.

 

[Deleted member]

I find it hard to think of how AiAi would work in Smash, and I don't think having him outside the ball at all would be effective since that ruins the whole point of Monkey Ball

Trust me, they can make AiAi work.

They have made many great and crazy movesets. Look at and .

 

[PeridotGX]

Imagine if we actually do get another Sega character and it's not any of the ones were talking about lol

none of you are ready for when the King (for a day) gets in

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yeah as much as I think ATs are entirely possible, I wouldn’t expect their models to be used for a playable character at all except possibly as a skeleton. But even then I’m not sure if that would be useful since it’s not like the AT models have any fighter/move data mapped to them. Forgive me if that doesn’t make sense. I don’t really know what I’m talking about there and just sort of making some assumptions. Lol

Even then I'd think a fighter's skeleton would be used instead since they'd have more animations to use as a base. Hell since ATs take much less time than fighters, that could mean those animations for airdodging/taking damage/being grabbed are recycled from other fighters. Knuckles himself has to be a Sonic asset reuse.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It renders those statements outdated. Where Smash stopped was different then, so saying that the role a character had in base was conclusive and absolute was true at that time, and now it's not, because now the game doesn't end when it launches.

This is like trying to govern online activity based on the capabilities it had in the 80s. The rules are different now, and holding on to an antiquated paradigm is proof of nothing but where the limitations used to be. It's not compelling evidence, and that's why no one is swayed by it.

Well they can continue to be wrong then.

The fact that the statement has been made and then reaffirmed, and has yet to be proven false (even under a reasonable opportunity) means that it's not outdated. If we get an Assist Trophy promotion, then they'll be outdated, but not a second earlier.

 

[SirCamp]

Even then I'd think a fighter's skeleton would be used instead since they'd have more animations to use as a base. Hell since ATs take much less time than fighters, that could mean those animations for airdodging/taking damage/being grabbed are recycled from other fighters. Knuckles himself has to be a Sonic asset reuse.

Well I don’t disagree with you there. Like I said I have no idea what I’m talking about when it comes to that anyway.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Well they can continue to be wrong then.

The fact that the statement has been made and then reaffirmed, and has yet to be proven false (even under a reasonable opportunity) means that it's not outdated. If we get an Assist Trophy promotion, then they'll be outdated, and not a second earlier.

Honestly this "it has never happened yet so it can never ever ever ever ever happen" mentality is going to bite back eventually. Trust me, I would know when I thought Decidueye vs. Incineroar fights would be eventually pointless since I thought they'd go with who I thought was a gen 7 mascot.

 

[7NATOR]

Trust me, they can make AiAi work.

They have made many great and crazy movesets. Look at and .

I am looking at them. I'm also looking at AiAi and wondering how he would work though. Because AiAi is in the Ball all of the time I think it be ridiculously hard to come up with attacks, harder than Wii Fit or Plant. I've played Monkey Ball on DS, and from what i remember, he just bounces around in the ball or moves in it.

 

[Deleted member]

I am looking at them. I'm also looking at AiAi and wondering how he would work though. Because AiAi is in the Ball all of the time I think it be ridiculously hard to come up with attacks, harder than Wii Fit or Plant. I've played Monkey Ball on DS, and from what i remember, he just bounces around in the ball or moves in it.

They can make moves up and reference the original games too.

Also, look at . Most of his moves look identical.

They can make AiAi work.

Edit: I'm not saying AiAi would have all identical moves like Sonic. I am just saying they can get creative with the move-set, even if it could be restricted to a ball.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Honestly this "it has never happened yet so it can never ever ever ever ever happen" mentality is going to bite back eventually. Trust me, I would know when I thought Decidueye vs. Incineroar fights would be eventually pointless since I thought they'd go with who I thought was a gen 7 mascot.

That's not it though. It's that, they've said that it wouldn't happen, and they haven't gone against it, so it's not gonna happen.

And honestly, I'd be down for whoever if they did add an Assist Trophy. Literally, I cannot find an Assist Trophy that I would actually hate as a charater. Even Color TV-Game 15 would be delightful for me in a similar vein to Piranha Plant. It's just not gonna happen.

 

[Schnee117]

Basically, try to expect an equal amount of resources even if it's some lame cringy Nintendo character that's totally gonna arbitrarily be hated more than Byleth for not being (redacted so we don't talk about them again).

Bro, redacting who the characters are doesn't make it any less boring or toxic when it's a drum you've been beating for months now.
We get it, you love making up fake opinions, shut the **** up already.

 

[7NATOR]

They can make moves up and reference the original games too.

Also, look at . Most of his moves look identical.

They can make AiAi work.

Edit: I'm not saying AiAi would have all identical moves like Sonic. I am just saying they can get creative with the move-set, even if it could be restricted to a ball.

Well I don't know what he had in the Og Games. as for made up moves, What moves will you make up that gets through the hurdle of AiAi being in the ball all of the time?

as for Sonic, He Spins alot, and he has TWO Spindashes, but he can at least Punch and Kick and use his Limbs. If AiAi is stuck in the ball the entire time (which is the point of Monkey Ball), there's not much you can do with that except ramming into Oppoents and such. Perhaps they can make the ball bendable, so he can use Limbs from Inside out. I'm not sure.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

They can make moves up and reference the original games too.

Also, look at . Most of his moves look identical.

They can make AiAi work.

Sonic's not trapped in a translucent sphere though. They might could just have the ball open up for most of Ai Ai's attacks, but it would certainly a difficult thing to animate without having it look weird. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

And wait.

And wait.

And wait.

 

[SirBillyBob]

That's not it though. It's that, they've said that it wouldn't happen, and they haven't gone against it, so it's not gonna happen.

And honestly, I'd be down for whoever if they did add an Assist Trophy. Literally, I cannot find an Assist Trophy that I would actually hate as a charater. Even Color TV-Game 15 would be delightful for me in a similar vein to Piranha Plant. It's just not gonna happen.

Yeah, previous statements have suggested that the chances of an AT being promoted are low, but to outright shut them out of discussion seems like an extremist position to take, especially now that we're in season 2 of Smash DLC.

 

[Monue]

Spoiler: Y'all are sleeping on this one

The franchise rep we should all be supporting!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well I don't know what he had in the Og Games. as for made up moves, What moves will you make up that gets through the hurdle of AiAi being in the ball all of the time?

as for Sonic, He Spins alot, and he has TWO Spindashes, but he can at least Punch and Kick and use his Limbs. If AiAi is stuck in the ball the entire time (which is the point of Monkey Ball), there's not much you can do with that except ramming into Oppoents and such. Perhaps they can make the ball bendable, so he can use Limbs from Inside out. I'm not sure.

Here's what I know:

• The ball can open up.
• The open halves of the ball can be used as a glider.

They could potentially get pretty creative with it. I think an even bigger hurdle would be the character's movement, as to stay true to what Monkey Ball is all about, you'd have to make their movement controls quite loose right? How would you make that satisfying in the context of a fighting game?
EDIT: Could it be tied to a Special Move like with Egg Roll or Rollout?

 

[SharkLord]

Even then I'd think a fighter's skeleton would be used instead since they'd have more animations to use as a base. Hell since ATs take much less time than fighters, that could mean those animations for airdodging/taking damage/being grabbed are recycled from other fighters. Knuckles himself has to be a Sonic asset reuse.

Yeah, Knuckles is most definitely reusing Sonic's code. I know he used the Homing Attack in Heroes, but that's not something you regularly associate with him.

Spoiler: Y'all are sleeping on this one

View attachment 284749

The franchise rep we should all be supporting!

"For his Final Smash, he drops a nuke on your head."

View attachment 284747
Yeah, previous statements have suggested that the chances of an AT being promoted are low, but to outright shut them out of discussion seems like an extremist position to take, especially now that we're in season 2 of Smash DLC.

Yeah, after we expressed our issues with limited conversation topics, I feel like now more than ever would be the time to lower our bar to entry. I get that some people might think someone's unlikely based on certain things, but there's no point in speculating if every option just gets slapped with a "Not happening, next!"

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Spoiler: Y'all are sleeping on this one

View attachment 284749

The franchise rep we should all be supporting!

Ooh I can't wait to play as Loading, Please Wait!

Jokes aside, any ideas on how a Civilization character would play?

 

[7NATOR]

Here's what I know:

• The ball can open up.
• The open halves of the ball can be used as a glider.

They could potentially get pretty creative with it. I think an even bigger hurdle would be the character's movement, as to stay true to what Monkey Ball is all about, you'd have to make their movement controls quite loose right? How would you make that satisfying in the context of a fighting game?
EDIT: Could it be tied to a Special Move like with Egg Roll or Rollout?

I see.

So yeah, I can see AiAi working, if the ball is allowed to open up, and he does have an Up B premade. I just think if we're talking from the chances of AiAi being Playable in any Smash game, I doubt it be soon, or even 5 games from now. AiAi seems hard to work with, Probably harder than any character in the game currently, and I say there' no initiative to put AiAi. However he can provide some interesting gameplay elements...provided they manage to get it to work

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Oh, here's an idea: The Sim. Their special moves are incredibly powerful, but if there's an item in their way, they drop what they're doing, get upset at it, and then proceed to do nothing about it.

Just kidding. Though I could see them being powerful characters with a few meters to manage, and mismanaging them can be detrimental to the player.

 

[7NATOR]

Actually Something i was wondering

Considering they did it for Min-Min, Could Rex's Model from Xenoblade 2 be Ripped straight into Smash and fit into the game. Min-Min's Model is actually from ARMS itself. If they want to save on the Time and budget, they could do the same with Rex. Just wondering if it would fit nicely

 

[Calamitas]

Actually Something i was wondering

Considering they did it for Min-Min, Could Rex's Model from Xenoblade 2 be Ripped straight into Smash and fit into the game. Min-Min's Model is actually from ARMS itself. If they want to save on the Time and budget, they could do the same with Rex. Just wondering if it would fit nicely

ARMS was co-developed by Bandai-Namco, though, if I recall correctly. Xenoblade is all Monolith Soft.

 

[N3ON]

Well they can continue to be wrong then.

The fact that the statement has been made and then reaffirmed, and has yet to be proven false (even under a reasonable opportunity) means that it's not outdated. If we get an Assist Trophy promotion, then they'll be outdated, and not a second earlier.

You can believe as you wish, but I at least hope you can understand why the argument "it was said it wouldn't happen when it couldn't happen" isn't one that can withstand a reasonable doubt. As evidenced every time it's broached.

And just as an aside, taking the stance that something will never ever happen in Smash doesn't seem particularly prudent against the stance that it's simply possible. I mean, history would generally corroborate the latter.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

ARMS was co-developed by Bandai-Namco, though, if I recall correctly. Xenoblade is all Monolith Soft.

Wait for real?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

AT promotion discussions are kinda weird because they're almost all popular characters but if there's already heavy arguing whether or not they could happen, imagine if we get say, Zero or Alucard instead of idk, Waluigi or Isaac. As cool as an AT promotion would be, let's be real, it'll be a shame that there's like 30 others who'd be just as cool, if not cooler than who we'd supposedly get

 

[N3ON]

AT promotion discussions are kinda weird because they're almost all popular characters but if there's already heavy arguing whether or not they could happen, imagine if we get say, Zero or Alucard instead of idk, Waluigi or Isaac. As cool as an AT promotion would be, let's be real, it'll be a shame that there's like 30 others who'd be just as cool, if not cooler than who we'd supposedly get

You could mine an entire new game's worth of characters out of the AT selection.

And even then, there'd still be leftovers that people would want.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Actually Something i was wondering

Considering they did it for Min-Min, Could Rex's Model from Xenoblade 2 be Ripped straight into Smash and fit into the game. Min-Min's Model is actually from ARMS itself. If they want to save on the Time and budget, they could do the same with Rex. Just wondering if it would fit nicely

They actually did reuse her XBC2 model to make the Nia costume. Don't know if that's true for Rex.

 

[Awkwah]

Hello Newcomer channel, what are the topics typically discussed here? I assume it is a free for all and a place where characters that are not flavor of the month are talked about?

 

[Deleted member]

Hello Newcomer channel, what are the topics typically discussed here? I assume it is a free for all and a place where characters that are not flavor of the month are talked about?

We discuss speculation for who is going to be FP7.

You can talk about any character who you want in.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Actually Something i was wondering

Considering they did it for Min-Min, Could Rex's Model from Xenoblade 2 be Ripped straight into Smash and fit into the game. Min-Min's Model is actually from ARMS itself. If they want to save on the Time and budget, they could do the same with Rex. Just wondering if it would fit nicely

It would really depend on how well it could handle the new set of animations it needed. I'm sure the model itself is high enough in quality, we would just need to know if the rigging would be good enough. My best guess would be no because he's from an RPG, which doesn't need nearly as detailed animations, but I could be wrong on that front.

Pyra and Mythra may not run into such issues, as they likely wouldn't be as involved.

ARMS was co-developed by Bandai-Namco, though, if I recall correctly. Xenoblade is all Monolith Soft.

Eeeh I don't think that would matter much unless Monolith Soft wouldn't want it's models to be reused.

Hello Newcomer channel, what are the topics typically discussed here? I assume it is a free for all and a place where characters that are not flavor of the month are talked about?

Talk about whoever you want. Except Geno, apparently.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Hello Newcomer channel, what are the topics typically discussed here? I assume it is a free for all and a place where characters that are not flavor of the month are talked about?

Well, we usually talk about recent news and characters that are popular in speculation (i.e. Geno, Dante, Steve), with the occasional oddball topic every now and then. Also, leak talk. That happens a lot here.

 

[7NATOR]

ARMS was co-developed by Bandai-Namco, though, if I recall correctly. Xenoblade is all Monolith Soft.

Oh yeah, I think i Remember something about Namco working on the game, and perhaps the models and such. perhaps that would make it easier to Transition Min-Min to the game

They actually did reuse her XBC2 model to make the Nia costume. Don't know if that's true for Rex.

I assume it's the Same with Rex if Nia's Model was re-used. I guess though if they can re-use it for a Costume, it could probably be used for a character as well

 

[SirBillyBob]

AT promotion discussions are kinda weird because they're almost all popular characters but if there's already heavy arguing whether or not they could happen, imagine if we get say, Zero or Alucard instead of idk, Waluigi or Isaac. As cool as an AT promotion would be, let's be real, it'll be a shame that there's like 30 others who'd be just as cool, if not cooler than who we'd supposedly get

This probably has to do with the Smash fandom particularly clamoring for those two and the reasons to support them. Let's take Isaac for an example. He's been requested for a long time since Brawl and has missed his opportunity twice now. It's now or never for his chance to shine, otherwise he risks falling back to the wayside for more recent characters. Meanwhile, Alucard, who would still be an awesome character, has both the blessing of being a popular character in his respective fandom and being directly considered by Sakurai, something Isaac doesn't. So I think It makes sense that people discuss him more than Alucard because there's a sense of urgency to adding him to Ultimate, whereas Alucard is seen as a "eh, he'll probably be added next time."

 

[Calamitas]

Eeeh I don't think that would matter much unless Monolith Soft wouldn't want it's models to be reused.

I meant that more in regards to there being more of an incentive to reuse the model if Bandai-Namco made the model in the first place.
Beyond that though, Smash reusing models from other games is really nothing new. The Brawl models for Link, Zelda and Ganondorf for example were pretty much lifted from Twilight Princess and use touched-up versions of the same textures. (Just speculating about the former I should stress, but the latter is something I've seen for myself since I used to make the occasional Brawl mod back in the day)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

This probably has to do with the Smash fandom particularly clamoring for those two and the reasons to support them. Let's take Isaac for an example. He's been requested for a long time since Brawl and has missed his opportunity twice now. It's now or never for his chance to shine, otherwise he risks falling back to the wayside for more recent characters. Meanwhile, Alucard, who would still be an awesome character, has both the blessing of being a popular character in his respective fandom and being directly considered by Sakurai, something Isaac doesn't. So I think It makes sense that people discuss him more than Alucard because there's a sense of urgency to adding him to Ultimate, whereas Alucard is seen as a "eh, he'll probably be added next time."

I'm not talking about certain ATs getting discussed more, but a hypothetical where we DO get an upgrade, but it's not "the most deserving one" to people's eyes. It'll obviously get ugly, using our examples, would Isaac fans be fine with Alucard proving ATs can still be DLC even if he was the only one? No, I don't think they would be. It's why AT promotion is so hard to wrap my head around personally, we only have 5 characters left meaning even if they for some reason are all AT promotions, there's like 50 other interesting options available with angered fans

 

[SharkLord]

Hello Newcomer channel, what are the topics typically discussed here? I assume it is a free for all and a place where characters that are not flavor of the month are talked about?

Hello there
Yes, this is a general, free-for-all thread. That being said, we have a bad habit of circling back to Geno, Byleth, a Gen 8 Pokemon, the nonexistent Nintendo Direct, whatever the "leakers" are saying, and Geno. I highly recommend suggesting and/or responding to any oddball picks and potential darkhorses, so that we can talk about something new.
Now, if only people actually talked about the new characters that we suggest after they complain about wanting new characters instead of brushing them off...

 

[Deleted member]

I am going to say it, but...

All of you take Smash Bros. speculation too seriously.

If your character doesn't get in, you're not going to die.

There are other games to play and other experiences in life.

I am not saying we should not have Smash speculation, but it's just a game, not your life.

 

[PeridotGX]

Hello Newcomer channel, what are the topics typically discussed here? I assume it is a free for all and a place where characters that are not flavor of the month are talked about?

before you begin, first tell me your thought on Geno from Super Mario RPG. Is he either...

A: God's gift to humanity
B: literally worse than satan.

There is no middle ground.

 

[N3ON]

Alucard and Zero will become more popular once we get a second unique character from a third-party franchise.

I'm not talking about certain ATs getting discussed more, but a hypothetical where we DO get an upgrade, but it's not "the most deserving one" to people's eyes. It'll obviously get ugly, using our examples, would Isaac fans be fine with Alucard proving ATs can still be DLC even if he was the only one? No, I don't think they would be. It's why AT promotion is so hard to wrap my head around personally, we only have 5 characters left meaning even if they for some reason are all AT promotions, there's like 50 other interesting options available with angered fans

I think you're looking at it pessimistically. There may be some resentment, especially if it's an out-of-left-field promotion, but I think most of the fanbases behind ATs would just be happy to have proof that ATs can get upgraded, and then all the popular ATs would regain some demand from it thanks to the rekindled hope. A rising tide raises all ships, or whatever it is.

Unless it's FP11. But FP11 is bound to get hate no matter who it is. Poor soul.

Also I'm like 90% sure Gwen has me blocked but the rest of you can read this, lol.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Hello there
Yes, this is a general, free-for-all thread. That being said, we have a bad habit of circling back to Geno, Byleth, a Gen 8 Pokemon, the nonexistent Nintendo Direct, whatever the "leakers" are saying, and Geno. I highly recommend suggesting and/or responding to any oddball picks and potential darkhorses, so that we can talk about something new.
Now, if only people actually talked about the new characters that we suggest after they complain about wanting new characters instead of brushing them off...

I think I've discovered the reason why everything else falls flat: There's nothing to debate about it.

Think about it, whenever someone brings up a different character either nobody feels strongly enough about it to respond, or people state their approval and move on. It's only when conflicting opinions emerge are discussions made beyond this.

If your character doesn't get in, you're not going to die.

In fact, it's actually the inverse for me: If Amaterasu gets in, I will die.

...

Wait, should I not want her then?