Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[osby]

Can't wait for it to be like October of next year, on the brink of fighter 11, and still debating over a Gen 8 rep's chances

We'll just move on from this topic like how people got over Fire Embl... oh...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Tbf I think the reason Resident Evil was relegated to a Spirit Event was cause representing the series in a playable form wouldn’t be for Good Boys and Girls - not in a sexual sense but in a violence sense. CERO would have to up Ultimate to B or C - like high T, low M in Japanese terms, and Sakurai wants to keep it CERO A (All Ages)

iirc both versions of MvC3 which has several RE characters on the roster is CERO B (suggested for ages 12 and up; C is for ages 15 and up; D is 17 and up and Z is restricted for 18+ only, usually for extreme graphic violence reasons)

 

[osby]

Tbf I think the reason Resident Evil was relegated to a Spirit Event was cause representing the series in a playable form wouldn’t be for Good Boys and Girls - not in a sexual sense but in a violence sense. CERO would have to up Ultimate to B or C - like high T, low M in Japanese terms, and Sakurai wants to keep it CERO A (All Ages)

iirc both versions of MvC3 which has several RE characters on the roster is CERO B (suggested for ages 12 and up; C is for ages 15 and up; D is 17 and up and Z is restricted for 18+ only, usually for extreme graphic violence reasons)

We have trigger-happy gunwielders Joker and Bayo in Ultimate and it still has a low age rating just fine.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Why? We have trigger happy Joker and Bayo just fine.

Feel like zombies is a totally different thing and all the RE characters in MVC3 involve some form of zombies in their moveset (except maybe Wesker but they wouldn’t put the villain in Smash before the hero)

And then there’s Nemesis, which... yeah

 

[MooMew64]

We'll just move on from this topic like how people got over Fire Embl... oh...

Ah yes, our next item on the speculation docket!

-Ahem- Is it just me, or are there just too many blue-haired swordies?

Alright, checked that one off the list...So, uh...Should we talk about Pokemon again, or...?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

We have trigger-happy gunwielders Joker and Bayo in Ultimate and it still has a low age rating just fine.

Toy gun and magic gun lol

 

[SKX31]

We'll just move on from this topic like how people got over Fire Embl... oh...

Ah yes, our next item on the speculation docket!

Ahem Is it just me, or are there just too many blue-haired swordies?

Alright, checked that one off the list...So, uh...Should we talk about Pokemon again, or...?

That's exactly why I'm waiting for the inevitable Pokemon x Fire Emblem crossover game a la Pokemon Conquest - so people will constantly mention both franchises in the same breath.

(And by the way, Marth would probably choose Pokemon with absurdly long grabs.)

 

[cashregister9]

Toy gun and magic gun lol

There is nothing in smash itself that insinuates that it is a toy gun. All evidence is from Persona 5 itself

 

[Opossum]

I see people say, "They wouldn't have a Spirit event for SwSh if they were adding a Gen 8 Pokemon." At the same time, I see a lot of people say, "If they add a Pokemon from SwSh, it's because they want to promote it."

Unless the next character is our SwSh rep, the ideal window for promoting SwSh will have passed. If Sakurai waited until the character was ready before releasing all of the relevant Spirits, we'd likely be in 2021 where Crown Tundra had been out for several months already.

Spirits aren't that much of a hassle to make. If they truly wanted to promote SwSh, releasing four Spirits close to the launch of said game is a much better method than waiting one to two years later when you can release all of the content together.

I really don't buy the idea that they consciously promoted SwSh with the spirits if they knew they'd make a Pokémon playable. It's not like we got Three Houses spirits to promote it before Byleth released.

I don't think Sakurai is the type to do things in half measures. Decreasing the over all "value" of the hypothetical SwSh Challenger Pack by giving out four SwSh spirits early for free doesn't seem like his MO. And it's not like they needed to promote it at release. It's Pokémon.

My go-to example is Punch-Out!! in Smash 4. They showed the Boxing Ring right from the start, knowing they were adding Little Mac. And what did they do? They only used the Smash branded ring, and any time it was shown in gameplay footage prior to February 2014, no music played in the background. This was all done to hide the presence of Punch-Out!! content before Little Mac's reveal.

That, to me, doesn't mesh well with "they gave SwSh a handful of promotional spirits before giving it the full treatment later."

 

[osby]

Feel like zombies is a totally different thing and all the RE characters in MVC3 involve some form of zombies in their moveset (except maybe Wesker but they wouldn’t put the villain in Smash before the hero)

And then there’s Nemesis, which... yeah

I don't see why they need zombies in their movesets. Sakurai can just did what he did with Snake and focus on more family-friendly forms of RE combat.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

That's exactly why I'm waiting for the inevitable Pokemon x Fire Emblem crossover game a la Pokemon Conquest - so people will constantly mention both franchises in the same breath.

(And by the way, Marth would probably choose Pokemon with absurdly long grabs.)

This actually sounds pretty cool.

There is nothing in smash itself that insinuates that it is a toy gun. All evidence is from Persona 5 itself

It's still canonically a toy gun Joker bought at a toy store lol

 

[Opossum]

This actually sounds pretty cool.


It's still canonically a toy gun Joker bought at a toy store lol

It doesn't matter what it is in the home game. CERO, ESRB, and PEGI couldn't give half a rat's ass. They only care about objectionable content in the game they're rating themselves.

In Smash itself, not only is there nothing signifying Joker's gun is fake, but it was made more realistic looking than it was in Persona 5.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Tbf I think the reason Resident Evil was relegated to a Spirit Event was cause representing the series in a playable form wouldn’t be for Good Boys and Girls - not in a sexual sense but in a violence sense. CERO would have to up Ultimate to B or C - like high T, low M in Japanese terms, and Sakurai wants to keep it CERO A (All Ages)

iirc both versions of MvC3 which has several RE characters on the roster is CERO B (suggested for ages 12 and up; C is for ages 15 and up; D is 17 and up and Z is restricted for 18+ only, usually for extreme graphic violence reasons)

We already have neck snapping, grenade wielding, war veteran Solid Snake, bloody demon killing and half naked Bayonetta, and gun wielding Joker in the series. With Metal Gear, Bayonetta, and Persona combined as series featuring topics for good boys and girls such as torture, impalement, strangulation, implied r***, war crimes, genitalia, etc.

 

[Cosmic77]

I really don't buy the idea that they consciously promoted SwSh with the spirits if they knew they'd make a Pokémon playable. It's not like we got Three Houses spirits to promote it before Byleth released.

I don't think Sakurai is the type to do things in half measures. Decreasing the over all "value" of the hypothetical SwSh Challenger Pack by giving out four SwSh spirits early for free doesn't seem like his MO. And it's not like they needed to promote it at release. It's Pokémon.

My go-to example is Punch-Out!! in Smash 4. They showed the Boxing Ring right from the start, knowing they were adding Little Mac. And what did they do? They only used the Smash branded ring, and any time it was shown in gameplay footage prior to February 2014, no music played in the background. This was all done to hide the presence of Punch-Out!! content before Little Mac's reveal.

That, to me, doesn't mesh well with "they gave SwSh a handful of promotional spirits before giving it the full treatment later."

To be fair, "I don't think Sakurai would..." isn't the best argument either.

And it's not just the idea that they would want to promote SwSh. You'd have to be incredibly naive to think people wouldn't connect the dots after 3H. That by itself should be a huge encouragement for Sakurai to add SwSh Spirits, especially since Let's Go got Spirits.

Like I said before, they can recycle any of the four Spirits, so it's not like any time was wasted on this Spirit event if we're still getting a SwSh Pokemon.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

I think that a new Pokémon rep as DLC is a bit boring, if we look Ultimate total newcomers (not counting echoes) from both base roster and FP1/2, we got 8 different Nintendo IPs; Metroid, Splatoon, Donkey Kong, Animal Crossing, Pokémon, Super Mario, Fire Emblem and ARMS.

There is already a Pokémon rep, so is it necessary to get another one ? Couldn’t we get from another IP like Xenoblade?

And talking about third parties, 5 new universes joined the roster; Castlevania, Persona, Dragon Quest, Banjo-Kazooie and Fatal Fury. It would be cool to have an almost 50/50 split between first and third parties IPs (“Perfectly balance, as all things should be”, Thanos)

 

[Deleted member]

It's interesting how Pokemon and Fire Emblem is looked upon as "overrepped" series by a good portion of people while disregarding Super Mario's number of fighters. If you believe those 2 franchises are overrepped, you may as well say the same for the Mario franchise even if you want a character from either 3 series.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I think the problem with Resident evil was more moveset potential. I'm not saying that the cast don't have any moveset potential, but they never really do unique stuff. They use weapon (a lot of them are touched by Snake) and they fight a bit using knife and punch and kick, but they don't really have unique power or attributes. I think that's what Sakurai meant when he said "it's more important to be fun than be popular". Sure, Resident evil is huge, but it wouldn't have bring a lot on the table moveset wise.

 

[SharkLord]

It's still canonically a toy gun Joker bought at a toy store lol

GUN
IS
G U N

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Pokémon is a 1st party franchise, so they wouldn't be negotiating rights just to negotiate rights again for a character.

Reminder that Ultimate is developed by Sora Ltd., a freelance company, and Bandai Namco. All Nintendo did for the base game was market and publish it.

The only reason first-party characters don't require negotiations is because Nintendo gives the suggestions, so any first-party character they give is automatically someone they're okay with in Smash, no negotiations needed.

But Pokemon is a whole different situation since Sakurai would still need to talk to Game Freak and The Pokemon Company, so in the end, a Pokemon rep may require just as much negotiation as any 3rd party rep.

 

[Schnee117]

Considering P5's own lore, the toy gun is realistic enough that the metaverse sees it as the real deal and thus it acts like the real deal

I don't see why they need zombies in their movesets. Sakurai can just did what he did with Snake and focus on more family-friendly forms of RE combat.

Only MvC2 Jill used Zombies in her moveset anyway, in MvC3 she's just an acrobatic gunslinger. No one else uses Zombies.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

"Japan's super strict about realistic guns"

Me watching Japanese tv shows meant for literal children: "Oh damn the protag got ****ing shot by a military soldier with a realistic weapon, how will he get out of this?"

Feel like zombies is a totally different thing and all the RE characters in MVC3 involve some form of zombies in their moveset (except maybe Wesker but they wouldn’t put the villain in Smash before the hero)

And then there’s Nemesis, which... yeah

Just don't have the zombies be bloody and boom, perfect stage cameo.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

RATINGS BOARD: "Sakurai, we're a bit on edge with Joker's use of realistic fire arms, we may have to bump up the rating."

SAKURAI: "no you see, it's a prop that only gains the ability to shoot bullets in the metaverse. See? Perfectly fine."

RATINGS BOARD: ""

Like could you theoretically imagine this conversation actually going down?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

It's interesting how Pokemon and Fire Emblem is looked upon as "overrepped" series by a good portion of people while disregarding Super Mario's number of fighters. If you believe those 2 franchises are overrepped, you may as well say the same for the Mario franchise even if you want a character from either 3 series.

Mario is too marketable so nobody really cares.

Although it does annoy me that Rosalina and the Koopalings got in

 

[osby]

It's still canonically a toy gun Joker bought at a toy store lol

If you look at the age rating of Persona 5, you'll see that it says "Characters use blades, pipes, firearms..." when talking about violence. It says "firearms", not "toy guns".

Rating boards doesn't care about canon as much as what actually appears on-screen.

 

[Opossum]

To be fair, "I don't think Sakurai would..." isn't the best argument either.

And it's not just the idea that they would want to promote SwSh. You'd have to be incredibly naive to think people wouldn't connect the dots after 3H. That by itself should be a huge encouragement for Sakurai to add SwSh Spirits, especially since Let's Go got Spirits.

Like I said before, they can recycle any of the four Spirits, so it's not like any time was wasted on this Spirit event if we're still getting a SwSh Pokemon.

Of course it's a sound argument. The argument is precedent.

And Sakurai also isn't the type to purposely throw people off the scent of a possible newcomer. Back during E3 2018 tons of people immediately noticed Samus didn't have her Dark Samus pallet and Ike didn't have his Chrom pallet. He even said during their official reveal that we "probably saw this coming." So then the team purposely didn't do a Three Houses spirit event, and people found it suspicious. Lo and behold, Byleth got in. If he didn't try to obfuscate Byleth after Chrom and Dark Samus, why would he start for SwSh?

There's no strong precedent thus far for the inclusion of a SwSh character after their spirit event. There IS precedent pointing to the contrary. And when the best and, honestly, only argument for them being that Pokémon is big enough to bend the rules, there's no reason not to remind skeptical, in my eyes.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

So then the team purposely didn't do a Three Houses spirit event, and people found it suspicious. Lo and behold, Byleth got in

Does that mean Gooigi is in Fighters Pass Volume 2?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It's interesting how Pokemon and Fire Emblem is looked upon as "overrepped" series by a good portion of people while disregarding Super Mario's number of fighters. If you believe those 2 franchises are overrepped, you may as well say the same for the Mario franchise even if you want a character from either 3 series.

Pokemon and Fire Emblem have the largest casts of Nintendo's libraries and adds over 50 characters with every installment. Mario keeps the same core cast and only occaisonally adds like 2 major characters per game at most

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

Nuclear Hot Take:

Sw/Sh had a very mixed ost. There were 1 or 2 tracks that stood out to me, but the rest was mediocre. I didn't like the crowd noises and they lessened my enjoyment of otherwise good tracks, even though it makes sense to add them given the sports atmosphere of the games.

Personally, I think the Pokemon soundtracks have been in a slow decline since Gen 5. 1-5 all have great soundtracks of comparable quality, though 4 and 5 are my favorites; Gen 6 is quite underrated, it's just the most common themes were more generic than prior gens; Gen 7 was about as good as Gen 6, but I think it's been somewhat overhyped.

On the basis of music alone, I wouldn't want a Sw/Sh pokemon, not only because of my opinion on its ost, but because there are so many excellent tracks missing as is from earlier Gens and I'd want to correct that first

Spoiler: Pokemon Tracks NOT in Smash

Vs Blue/World Champion Theme
Vs Silver
Vs Team Rocket
Vs Ho-oh
Vs Red/Lance
Vs Gym Leader (Gen 3)
Vs Archie/Maxie
Vs Regi Trio
Vs Wally
Vs Elite 4 (Gen 3)
Vs Gym Leader/Elite 4 (Gen 4)
Vs Cyrus
Vs Lake Trio
Vs Frontier Brain (Gen 4) [Yes, this is the better version]
Vs Gym Leader (Gen 5)
Vs Team Plasma
Vs Elite 4 (Gen 5)
Vs N [Yes, this is partially included in the N's Castle Remix, No, I don't care, it should've been its own track]
Vs Ghetsis
Vs Muskadeer Trio/Genie Trio
Vs Alder
Vs Hugh
Vs Neo Plasma
PWT Finals
Vs Colress [This stings in particular]
Vs Ghetsis [Again]
Vs Kyurem
Vs Iris
Vs Korrina
Vs Lysandre
Vs Elite 4 (Gen 6) [Why was the Smash Team so afraid of adding Elite 4 themes yet added the worst one?]
Vs Xerneas/Yvetal
Vs Team Skull
Vs Guzma
Vs Lusamine
Vs Ultra Beast
Vs Ultra Recon Squad

Plus any number of overworld themes

Talking about the pokemon themselves; none of the Gen 8 candidates interest me. Not because they're too humanoid or the wrong typing or whatever, it's probably just because of my malaise for Sw/Sh as a whole. And no meme will change my mind.

I just generally don't want another pokemon. I think there's plenty as is. YES, they could absolutely had better representation, be it Gen or type or body shape, but at least the pokemon in smash vary in playstyle. I wouldn't even want to add one of my favorite pokemon a this point.

I'd rather see a new series, 1st or 3rd party, added over another pokemon. I don't care how much money it makes, I don't want it.


Do I think it's possible? Yes, obviously. Do I think it's likely? Not especially, certainly not to the point of resigning to that fate. I think the timing is a mark against their chances; not insurmountable, but notable. I think Sakurai and Nintendo may have taken note of the mixed reaction to Incineroar and been put off from adding another pokemon durring dlc, but there's no way to know so that's a total guess.

 

[osby]

RATINGS BOARD: "Sakurai, we're a bit on edge with Joker's use of realistic fire arms, we may have to bump up the rating."

SAKURAI: "no you see, it's a prop that only gains the ability to shoot bullets in the metaverse. See? Perfectly fine."

RATINGS BOARD: ""

Like could you theoretically imagine this conversation actually going down?

Sakurai adds Mara into Smash because he's not really a penis, he's just a Persona that looks like one.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Nuclear Hot Take:

Sw/Sh had a very mixed ost. There were 1 or 2 tracks that stood out to me, but the rest was mediocre. I didn't like the crowd noises and they lessened my enjoyment of otherwise good tracks, even though it makes sense to add them given the sports atmosphere of the games.

Personally, I think the Pokemon soundtracks have been in a slow decline since Gen 5. 1-5 all have great soundtracks of comparable quality, though 4 and 5 are my favorites; Gen 6 is quite underrated, it's just the most common themes were more generic than prior gens; Gen 7 was about as good as Gen 6, but I think it's been somewhat overhyped.

On the basis of music alone, I wouldn't want a Sw/Sh pokemon, not only because of my opinion on its ost, but because there are so many excellent tracks missing as is from earlier Gens and I'd want to correct that first

Spoiler: Pokemon Tracks NOT in Smash

Vs Blue/World Champion Theme
Vs Silver
Vs Team Rocket
Vs Ho-oh
Vs Red/Lance
Vs Gym Leader (Gen 3)
Vs Archie/Maxie
Vs Regi Trio
Vs Wally
Vs Elite 4 (Gen 3)
Vs Gym Leader/Elite 4 (Gen 4)
Vs Cyrus
Vs Lake Trio
Vs Frontier Brain (Gen 4) [Yes, this is the better version]
Vs Gym Leader (Gen 5)
Vs Team Plasma
Vs Elite 4 (Gen 5)
Vs N [Yes, this is partially included in the N's Castle Remix, No, I don't care, it should've been its own track]
Vs Ghetsis
Vs Muskadeer Trio/Genie Trio
Vs Alder
Vs Hugh
Vs Neo Plasma
PWT Finals
Vs Colress [This stings in particular]
Vs Ghetsis [Again]
Vs Kyurem
Vs Iris
Vs Korrina
Vs Lysandre
Vs Elite 4 (Gen 6) [Why was the Smash Team so afraid of adding Elite 4 themes yet added the worst one?]
Vs Xerneas/Yvetal
Vs Team Skull
Vs Guzma
Vs Lusamine
Vs Ultra Beast
Vs Ultra Recon Squad

Plus any number of overworld themes

Talking about the pokemon themselves; none of the Gen 8 candidates interest me. Not because they're too humanoid or the wrong typing or whatever, it's probably just because of my malaise for Sw/Sh as a whole. And no meme will change my mind.

I just generally don't want another pokemon. I think there's plenty as is. YES, they could absolutely had better representation, be it Gen or type or body shape, but at least the pokemon in smash vary in playstyle. I wouldn't even want to add one of my favorite pokemon a this point.

I'd rather see a new series, 1st or 3rd party, added over another pokemon. I don't care how much money it makes, I don't want it.


Do I think it's possible? Yes, obviously. Do I think it's likely? Not especially, certainly not to the point of resigning to that fate. I think the timing is a mark against their chances; not insurmountable, but notable. I think Sakurai and Nintendo may have taken note of the mixed reaction to Incineroar and been put off from adding another pokemon durring dlc, but there's no way to know so that's a total guess.

Finally someone gets it.

 

[Calamitas]

Nuclear Hot Take:

Sw/Sh had a very mixed ost. There were 1 or 2 tracks that stood out to me, but the rest was mediocre. I didn't like the crowd noises and they lessened my enjoyment of otherwise good tracks, even though it makes sense to add them given the sports atmosphere of the games.

Personally, I think the Pokemon soundtracks have been in a slow decline since Gen 5. 1-5 all have great soundtracks of comparable quality, though 4 and 5 are my favorites; Gen 6 is quite underrated, it's just the most common themes were more generic than prior gens; Gen 7 was about as good as Gen 6, but I think it's been somewhat overhyped.

On the basis of music alone, I wouldn't want a Sw/Sh pokemon, not only because of my opinion on its ost, but because there are so many excellent tracks missing as is from earlier Gens and I'd want to correct that first

Spoiler: Pokemon Tracks NOT in Smash

Vs Blue/World Champion Theme
Vs Silver
Vs Team Rocket
Vs Ho-oh
Vs Red/Lance
Vs Gym Leader (Gen 3)
Vs Archie/Maxie
Vs Regi Trio
Vs Wally
Vs Elite 4 (Gen 3)
Vs Gym Leader/Elite 4 (Gen 4)
Vs Cyrus
Vs Lake Trio
Vs Frontier Brain (Gen 4) [Yes, this is the better version]
Vs Gym Leader (Gen 5)
Vs Team Plasma
Vs Elite 4 (Gen 5)
Vs N [Yes, this is partially included in the N's Castle Remix, No, I don't care, it should've been its own track]
Vs Ghetsis
Vs Muskadeer Trio/Genie Trio
Vs Alder
Vs Hugh
Vs Neo Plasma
PWT Finals
Vs Colress [This stings in particular]
Vs Ghetsis [Again]
Vs Kyurem
Vs Iris
Vs Korrina
Vs Lysandre
Vs Elite 4 (Gen 6) [Why was the Smash Team so afraid of adding Elite 4 themes yet added the worst one?]
Vs Xerneas/Yvetal
Vs Team Skull
Vs Guzma
Vs Lusamine
Vs Ultra Beast
Vs Ultra Recon Squad

Plus any number of overworld themes

Talking about the pokemon themselves; none of the Gen 8 candidates interest me. Not because they're too humanoid or the wrong typing or whatever, it's probably just because of my malaise for Sw/Sh as a whole. And no meme will change my mind.

I just generally don't want another pokemon. I think there's plenty as is. YES, they could absolutely had better representation, be it Gen or type or body shape, but at least the pokemon in smash vary in playstyle. I wouldn't even want to add one of my favorite pokemon a this point.

I'd rather see a new series, 1st or 3rd party, added over another pokemon. I don't care how much money it makes, I don't want it.


Do I think it's possible? Yes, obviously. Do I think it's likely? Not especially, certainly not to the point of resigning to that fate. I think the timing is a mark against their chances; not insurmountable, but notable. I think Sakurai and Nintendo may have taken note of the mixed reaction to Incineroar and been put off from adding another pokemon durring dlc, but there's no way to know so that's a total guess.

Speaking of Pokémon music choices, I'll honestly never understand their fixation on always having the wild Pokémon theme from whatever is the current generation, but rarely if ever including some of the more specific battle themes. 'Cause yeah, the wild Pokémon battle theme is. Just such a popular track, always.
And c'mon, that long list of tracks and you didn't even include Deoxys Battle Theme? For shame.

But honestly, the only Sword/Shield track I'd really care for is the Battle Tower Theme (or as it's more commonly known, "Toby Fox Battle Theme". You know, like you're actually fighting Toby Fox).

 

[Deleted member]

Nuclear Hot Take:

Sw/Sh had a very mixed ost. There were 1 or 2 tracks that stood out to me, but the rest was mediocre. I didn't like the crowd noises and they lessened my enjoyment of otherwise good tracks, even though it makes sense to add them given the sports atmosphere of the games.

Personally, I think the Pokemon soundtracks have been in a slow decline since Gen 5. 1-5 all have great soundtracks of comparable quality, though 4 and 5 are my favorites; Gen 6 is quite underrated, it's just the most common themes were more generic than prior gens; Gen 7 was about as good as Gen 6, but I think it's been somewhat overhyped.

On the basis of music alone, I wouldn't want a Sw/Sh pokemon, not only because of my opinion on its ost, but because there are so many excellent tracks missing as is from earlier Gens and I'd want to correct that first

Spoiler: Pokemon Tracks NOT in Smash

Vs Blue/World Champion Theme
Vs Silver
Vs Team Rocket
Vs Ho-oh
Vs Red/Lance
Vs Gym Leader (Gen 3)
Vs Archie/Maxie
Vs Regi Trio
Vs Wally
Vs Elite 4 (Gen 3)
Vs Gym Leader/Elite 4 (Gen 4)
Vs Cyrus
Vs Lake Trio
Vs Frontier Brain (Gen 4) [Yes, this is the better version]
Vs Gym Leader (Gen 5)
Vs Team Plasma
Vs Elite 4 (Gen 5)
Vs N [Yes, this is partially included in the N's Castle Remix, No, I don't care, it should've been its own track]
Vs Ghetsis
Vs Muskadeer Trio/Genie Trio
Vs Alder
Vs Hugh
Vs Neo Plasma
PWT Finals
Vs Colress [This stings in particular]
Vs Ghetsis [Again]
Vs Kyurem
Vs Iris
Vs Korrina
Vs Lysandre
Vs Elite 4 (Gen 6) [Why was the Smash Team so afraid of adding Elite 4 themes yet added the worst one?]
Vs Xerneas/Yvetal
Vs Team Skull
Vs Guzma
Vs Lusamine
Vs Ultra Beast
Vs Ultra Recon Squad

Plus any number of overworld themes

doesn't this apply for pretty much every pokemon game? I don't see why the same applying to SWSH is a big deal.

also smash is generally bad at representing music for pretty much every series in the game, so, once again, I don't see why the same applying to pokemon is a big deal.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Nuclear Hot Take:

Sw/Sh had a very mixed ost. There were 1 or 2 tracks that stood out to me, but the rest was mediocre. I didn't like the crowd noises and they lessened my enjoyment of otherwise good tracks, even though it makes sense to add them given the sports atmosphere of the games.

Personally, I think the Pokemon soundtracks have been in a slow decline since Gen 5. 1-5 all have great soundtracks of comparable quality, though 4 and 5 are my favorites; Gen 6 is quite underrated, it's just the most common themes were more generic than prior gens; Gen 7 was about as good as Gen 6, but I think it's been somewhat overhyped.

On the basis of music alone, I wouldn't want a Sw/Sh pokemon, not only because of my opinion on its ost, but because there are so many excellent tracks missing as is from earlier Gens and I'd want to correct that first

Spoiler: Pokemon Tracks NOT in Smash

Vs Blue/World Champion Theme
Vs Silver
Vs Team Rocket
Vs Ho-oh
Vs Red/Lance
Vs Gym Leader (Gen 3)
Vs Archie/Maxie
Vs Regi Trio
Vs Wally
Vs Elite 4 (Gen 3)
Vs Gym Leader/Elite 4 (Gen 4)
Vs Cyrus
Vs Lake Trio
Vs Frontier Brain (Gen 4) [Yes, this is the better version]
Vs Gym Leader (Gen 5)
Vs Team Plasma
Vs Elite 4 (Gen 5)
Vs N [Yes, this is partially included in the N's Castle Remix, No, I don't care, it should've been its own track]
Vs Ghetsis
Vs Muskadeer Trio/Genie Trio
Vs Alder
Vs Hugh
Vs Neo Plasma
PWT Finals
Vs Colress [This stings in particular]
Vs Ghetsis [Again]
Vs Kyurem
Vs Iris
Vs Korrina
Vs Lysandre
Vs Elite 4 (Gen 6) [Why was the Smash Team so afraid of adding Elite 4 themes yet added the worst one?]
Vs Xerneas/Yvetal
Vs Team Skull
Vs Guzma
Vs Lusamine
Vs Ultra Beast
Vs Ultra Recon Squad

Plus any number of overworld themes

Talking about the pokemon themselves; none of the Gen 8 candidates interest me. Not because they're too humanoid or the wrong typing or whatever, it's probably just because of my malaise for Sw/Sh as a whole. And no meme will change my mind.

I just generally don't want another pokemon. I think there's plenty as is. YES, they could absolutely had better representation, be it Gen or type or body shape, but at least the pokemon in smash vary in playstyle. I wouldn't even want to add one of my favorite pokemon a this point.

I'd rather see a new series, 1st or 3rd party, added over another pokemon. I don't care how much money it makes, I don't want it.


Do I think it's possible? Yes, obviously. Do I think it's likely? Not especially, certainly not to the point of resigning to that fate. I think the timing is a mark against their chances; not insurmountable, but notable. I think Sakurai and Nintendo may have taken note of the mixed reaction to Incineroar and been put off from adding another pokemon durring dlc, but there's no way to know so that's a total guess.

I love Smash ultimate ost, but some franchises have some really weird music choices. Pokémon is one of those with a lot of classic epic battle music missing, and the same thing can be said about Earthbound. For a JRPG franchises, among the 14 Smash music, only one of them is a battle theme (Unfounded revenge/Smashing song of praise).

 

[Cosmic77]

Of course it's a sound argument. The argument is precedent.

And Sakurai also isn't the type to purposely throw people off the scent of a possible newcomer. Back during E3 2018 tons of people immediately noticed Samus didn't have her Dark Samus pallet and Ike didn't have his Chrom pallet. He even said during their official reveal that we "probably saw this coming." So then the team purposely didn't do a Three Houses spirit event, and people found it suspicious. Lo and behold, Byleth got in. If he didn't try to obfuscate Byleth after Chrom and Dark Samus, why would he start for SwSh?

There's no strong precedent thus far for the inclusion of a SwSh character after their spirit event. There IS precedent pointing to the contrary. And when the best and, honestly, only argument for them being that Pokémon is big enough to bend the rules, there's no reason not to remind skeptical, in my eyes.

Right, because "precedent" has worked out so well for speculation in Ultimate so far. Precedent suggested that the final character of the first pass would follow the trend the previous four characters set and be third-party. Precedent also suggested we'd get Spring Man. Oh, but I suppose he was an exception — an exception that only made sense after Min Min was revealed and Sakurai himself explained why Spring Man wasn't chosen.

It's fine if you want to use precedent as a means to push your argument, but understand that precedent is also very flimsy. One day it's, "That doesn't line up with previous patterns," the next it could easily be, "Well, that might've just been an exception."

As for Spirit events, yes, people found the lack of a 3H Spirit event to be suspicious. You know what else was suspicious? Where was the Astral Chain Spirit event? What about Ring Fit? Don't you find it even more suspicious that the next two major first-party titles after 3H didn't get Spirit events until months after their release? Astral Chain got its Spirit event only days away from Byleth's reveal, and prior to that, everyone was listing it as one of the most likely first-party titles to get a character.

I have absolutely no idea if there was a reason for holding off the Astral Chain and Ring Fit Spirit events for so long, but if there was, it wouldn't surprise me if it was purposely done to make 3H's absence less glaring.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I love Smash ultimate ost, but some franchises have some really weird music choices. Pokémon is one of those with a lot of classic epic battle music missing, and the same thing can be said about Earthbound. For a JRPG franchises, among the 14 Smash music, only one of them is a battle theme (Unfounded revenge/Smashing song of praise).

im more miffed why F-Zero's music selection is mostly SNES songs and hit-or-miss remixes. I need more GX music dammit

i need the vocal themes, including CF's in Smash yesterday

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

"Japan's super strict about realistic guns"

Me watching Japanese tv shows meant for literal children: "Oh damn the protag got ****ing shot by a military soldier with a realistic weapon, how will he get out of this?"

Meanwhile, in the U.S.:

"They're seriously threatening a man just by pointing at him?"

Sw/Sh had a very mixed ost. There were 1 or 2 tracks that stood out to me, but the rest was mediocre. I didn't like the crowd noises and they lessened my enjoyment of otherwise good tracks, even though it makes sense to add them given the sports atmosphere of the games.

I really don't see the appeal in most of the tracks that everyone likes from this game. In my opinion of the rival themes are all incredibly mediocre, the gym leader theme doesn't have a melody until the tone deaf crowd comes in (and while it works for what it's supposed to, I wouldn't listen to it on it's own like the other gym leader themes), the wild battle theme isn't good enough for you to be hearing it as much as you do, the battle tower music doesn't feel like it belongs in the Pokémon series, and all of the area themes are forgettable except for Slumbering Weald because all of the music surrounding Zacian and Zamazenta is a 10/10.

Compare it to the previous generations, and it constantly loses to stuff like Battle! (Lorekeeper Zinnia), Battle! (Gladion), Battle! (Aether Foundation Employee), a lot of the early route themes from Pokémon Sun/Moon, Pokémon X/Y's trainer battle theme, and basically anything from Pokémon Black 2/White 2 (though I am a bit biased, as Pokémon Black 2 was my first Pokémon game).

Speaking of Pokémon music choices, I'll honestly never understand their fixation on always having the wild Pokémon theme from whatever is the current generation, but rarely if ever including some of the more specific battle themes. 'Cause yeah, the wild Pokémon battle theme is. Just such a popular track, always.

And then they don't include the best one! (Pokémon Black 2/White 2's Wild Battle theme.)

I love Smash ultimate ost, but some franchises have some really weird music choices. Pokémon is one of those with a lot of classic epic battle music missing, and the same thing can be said about Earthbound. For a JRPG franchises, among the 14 Smash music, only one of them is a battle theme (Unfounded revenge/Smashing song of praise).

It does at least make sense for Earthbound since a lot of their battle themes would be expensive to add since they draw on music from pop culture, and other artists.

EDIT: Though the fact that we don't have a vocal version of Polyanna is quite sad.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I love Smash ultimate ost, but some franchises have some really weird music choices. Pokémon is one of those with a lot of classic epic battle music missing, and the same thing can be said about Earthbound. For a JRPG franchises, among the 14 Smash music, only one of them is a battle theme (Unfounded revenge/Smashing song of praise).

And then you have Persona which has the incredibly odd missing music choice of Life will change.

 

[Opossum]

Right, because "precedent" has worked out so well for speculation in Ultimate so far. Precedent suggested that the final character of the first pass would follow the trend the previous four characters set and be third-party. Precedent also suggested we'd get Spring Man. Oh, but I suppose he was an exception — an exception that only made sense after Min Min was revealed and Sakurai himself explained why Spring Man wasn't chosen.

It's fine if you want to use precedent as a means to push your argument, but understand that precedent is also very flimsy. One day it's, "That doesn't line up with previous patterns," the next it could easily be, "Well, that might've just been an exception."

As for Spirit events, yes, people found the lack of a 3H Spirit event to be suspicious. You know what else was suspicious? Where was the Astral Chain Spirit event? What about Ring Fit? Don't you find it even more suspicious that the next two major first-party titles after 3H didn't get Spirit events until months after their release? Astral Chain got its Spirit event only days away from Byleth's reveal, and prior to that, everyone was listing it as one of the most likely first-party titles to get a character.

I have absolutely no idea if there was a reason for holding off the Astral Chain and Ring Fit Spirit events for so long, but if there was, it wouldn't surprise me if it was purposely done to make 3H's absence less glaring.

This is a speculation thread. Precedence is literally the backbone of speculation. By you saying that following the set precedent is a flimsy argument, you're basically admitting to not wanting to actually speculate. Because by removing precedence, what's left that isn't either blind guessing or "this can happen I swear?"

 

[RouffWestie]

Nintendo using Smash Bros. Ultimate DLC to promote new Switch releases is a precedent , so that actually benefits the idea of a Gen 8 rep. Unless we're supposed to just be cherry-picking

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

im more miffed why F-Zero's music selection is mostly SNES songs and hit-or-miss remixes. I need more GX music dammit

i need the vocal themes, including CF's in Smash yesterday

Sakurai: "A vocal version of Mut City you say? I Got'chya covered."