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Honestly, it's perfectly fine to want literally any Kirby character over him but at the same time it's a little comical to see him being downplayed for the same "arguments" over and over again.
I see people compare him to either a Goomba or Toad, and while I would lean towards Toad as the most relatable character, I still think that Bandana Dee has qualities which Toad doesn't always have.
For one, Bandana Dee has a signature weapon(s) while Toad can usually only get his hands on whatever Mario can utilize as well.
Also, Bandana Dee is far more popular as a Smash request (and maybe even as a character in general) than Toad. There's a reason why characters like Rosalina (and maybe even Bowser Jr.) got in over Toad, after all.
Additionally, Bandana Dee isn't tied down by a certain, intentional gimmick which would have to be worked around in order for him to work viably in a game like Smash.
With that being said, I still hope that (Captain) Toad makes it into Smash someday.
But, I think it was pretty cool to see Bandana Dee evolve into being practically the 4th Main Character of the Kirby franchise (and the sole representative for Waddle Dees), rather than simply filing in the 4th Playable Character' spot before falling into obscurity after 2011. He's now one of Kirby's best, reoccurring friends who tries to help him in any way that he can which is why I think he shouldn't be viewed as a lesser character just for playing roles which aren't always one-to-one with Meta Knight and King Dedede.
For any way you slice the strawberry cake, Bandana Dee would also bring something new and interesting to the table in some way; especially as DLC, since he would be guaranteed to bring fresh content into Ultimate that the Kirby franchise has been starved of for quite some time.
Moveset potential is a no-brainer, since Bandana Dee has more than enough from his personal arsenal to use in Smash, even without a gimmick!
For my own moveset concept it features Spear, Parasol, and even his kinda overlooked Megaton Punch moves; along with Alt. Costumes as well.
Some moves also have additional inputs or effects to make them much more interesting.
Please have a look!
Moveset
Jab - Spear Poke
Bandana Dee delivers a simple, straight-forward poke with his spear.
Rapid Jab - Multispear Attack
Bandana Dee unleashes a flurry of spear jabs ending with one powerful thrust.
Up-Tilt - Parasol Unfurl
Bandana Dee quickly raises his (closed) parasol into the air before allowing it to quickly unfurl and finish the attack.
Side-Tilt - Spear Cutter
Bandana Dee tosses forward a twirling spear from his hand which quickly returns back to him. (This move can also be aimed).
Down-Tilt - Slide
Bandana Dee extends his feet while sliding forward in a common and classic fashion.
Up-Smash - Chumbrella Unfurl
Bandana Dee raises a (closed) Chumbrella over his head before allowing it to unfurl in order to finish the attack.
- As a bonus, by holding the attack button the Chumbrella remains held above Bandana Dee's head; this provides him with increased protection from aerial attacks while rendering him free to move around.
- Walking off ledges will cause him to descend more slowly.
- Once the attack button is released Bandana Dee will release the Chumbrella from his hands, allowing it to float upwards and deal additional damage while encasing the ability to juggle opponents.
- Has a tipper effect.
Side Smash - Spear Thrust
Bandana Dee sends out a powerful thrust with his Spear.
- While charging this move Bandana Dee would twirl the Spear in his hand, dealing additional damage before completing the attack.
- Has a tipper effect.
Down Smash - Super Megaton Punch
Bandana Dee swiftly punches the ground below him, affecting a certain radius around the area of impact.
- Opponents struck with the punch itself will be instantly buried.
- Additionally a pillar of rock will erupt from the ground on both sides of Bandana Dee, launching nearby opponents away.
- These pillars of rock will also protect Bandana Dee from sudden attacks (physical or projectile) from either side of him.
Neutral Air - Spear Twirl
Bandana Dee twirls his spear in front on him.
Up Air - Skyward Thrust
Bandana Dee strikes the air above him with his spear.
Forward Air - Triple Stab
Bandana Dee quickly stabs the air three times to the side with his spear.
Down Air - Moon Drop
Bandana Dee descends while twirling his spear downwards.
BackAir - Waddle Kick
Bandana Dee delivers a strong kick backwards.
Grab
Bandana Dee uses his left hand to grab opponents.
Pummel
Bandana Dee rapidly jabs his opponent with his spear.
Forward Throw - Spear Sweep
Bandana Dee pushes his spear onto his opponent before sweeping them away.
Up Throw- Circus Throw
Bandana Dee uses his parasol to twirl and tumble opponents around before tossing them.
Back Throw - Spear Suplex
Bandana Dee pushes his spear onto an opponent before hauling them backwards and over his head until they slam onto the ground behind him.
Down Throw - Waddle Slam
Bandana Dee throws his opponent onto the ground before jumping up and dropping a punch onto them.
Neutral Special - Waddle Spear Throw
Bandana Dee throws a single spear at an angle.
- Charging the move allows Bandana Dee to perform "Waddle Triple Throw", granting him three spears to throw instead of one.
- Spears temporarIly stick to a surface, allowing them to be picked up and thrown again.
- If Bandana Dee holds a spear in his hand, he will automatically throw two spears with "Waddle Spear Throw" and the charge will be shortened for "Waddle Triple Throw"
Side Special - Aqua Drill
This move allows Bandana Dee to use a combination of moves in a set order as follows:
Aqua Shot - Bandana Dee charges up his parasol to release a ball of water which stuns opponents.
Parasol Drill (activated after pressing the "B" button again) - Bandana Dee rushes forward with an open parasol.
Parasol Swing (activated after holding the "B" button down after activating Parasol Drill) - Bandana Dee's parasol flips inversely and splashes water at his opponents.
OR
Parasol Spin (activated after holding the "B" button down after activating Parasol Drill AND pushing the left stick downwards) - Bandana Dee spins his parasol 360 degress around him.
OR
Parasol Scoop (activated after holding the "B" button down after activating Parasol Drill AND pushing the left stick upwards) - Bandana Dee sweeps his parasol into the sky with an arc.
Up Special - Waddle Copter
Bandana Dee takes to the skies as he twirls his spear over his head like a helicopter blade, causing him to ascend for a certain period of time. Opponents caught in the ascension will potentially be juggled.
Down Special - Ground Thrust
Bandana Dee rushes forward with his spear brushing against the ground, before flicking it upwards to finish the move after he has traveled a certain distance.
Additionally, Bandana Dee can perform other moves with additional inputs as follows:
Spear Vault (activated by pressing the "B" button during Ground Thrust) - Bandana Dee launches himself into the air after dropping his spear.
Spinning Spear Strike (activated by pushing upwards on the left stick during Ground Thrust) - Bandana Dee launches forward at an angle whIle spinning his spear around his body before slamming the spear down to finish.
Reverse Thrust (activated by pushing the left stick in the opposite direction of movement during Ground Thrust) - Bandana Dee quickly shifts directions before traveling at a faster speed in that direction for a shorter distance before the move is completed. (This input cannot be reversed back again).
- Inputs would have to be timed correctly in order for certain combos to be achieved.
- Moves like Spear Vault would automatically end a combo.
- When used in the air, the move becomes "Air Thrust", moving Bandana Dee through the air much quickly, along with giving him the ability to automatically activate Spear Vault and spike/meteor opponents if you come in contact with them.
Final Smash - Ultra Megaton Punch (Cinematic)
Bandana Dee summons a boulder-sized Waddle Dee ball which slams into opponents within range, sending them flying to the Megaton Punch Arena.
Bandana Dee is then seen falling from the sky with a flaming fist before striking down on his opponents with an immense force. The camera then pans back into space, revealing that Pop Star was almost completely cracked in half in result of the punch, thus ending the cutscene.
Alternate Colors
- Waddle Doo(Red Bandana w/ Large Eyeball)
- Sailor Waddle Dee(White & Blue Bandana)
- Parasol Waddle Dee(Parasol-Themed Bandana)
- Gold Waddle Dee(Golden Color w/ Sapphire-Colored Bandana)
- Green Bandana Dee(w/ Dark-Green Bandana)
- Cyan Bandana Dee(w/ White Bandana)
- Key Dee(Identical Color Scheme w/ Gold Bandana + Light-Blue Star)
Overall though, Bandana Dee means quite a lot to me as a character and is basically the first character who showed me what it really means to rally behind a potential inclusion in Smash.
So, if I didn't imply this well enough already... I really hope he makes it in.
Hat Goomba comes from the ffact that they literally give him a moniker based on his headwear. If Mario introduced a Goomba that used a bat and had a tophat and he was called Tophat Goomba, and was really working to be Bowser's secnd hand man, itd be the same exact scenario with Bandanna Dee.
And? Who cares if we have a random enemy in Smash that's a playable character? We have . I don't think BWD is problem because of that. That argument is so weak because it literally doesn't matter, and never did. It's the worst argument I have ever seen against a character in Smash history, and that says something.
And? Who cares if we have a random enemy in Smash that's a playable character? We have . I don't think BWD is problem because of that. That argument is so weak because it literally doesn't matter, and never did. It's the worst argument I have ever seen against a character in Smash history, and that says something.
Since we seem to be posting movesets now, I brought out my old Bandana Dee moveset from a while back.
Bandana Waddle Dee is a relatively simple character, keeping in line with Kirby's easy, casual gameplay. Much like how Kirby is a beginner-friendly character in general, Bandana Dee is a beginner-friendly zoner. He's fairly mobile, with decent speed both on the ground and in the air. He fights with his trusty spear, which sometimes doubles up as a parasol. As a result, he has decently long disjoints, which makes him stand out from the other small characters, who mostly fight at close range. However, he suffers from being light and easy to launch, and his range is balanced by his so-so damage output and middling combo potential.
Attributes:
While Bandana Dee lacks any real gimmicks, he does have a handful of noteworthy attributes.
Much like Marth's Falchion, Bandana Dee's spear has a sweetspot at the end.
Bandana Dee's parasol attacks (Up smash, back air, and down special) can reflect projectiles.
Bandana Dee has access to a back tilt as well as a forward tilt, based on his Back Thrust attack.
Normals
Jab-Bandana Dee swings his spear inwards, then outwards, followed by a thrust.
Flurry Attack-Bandana Dee rapidly stabs forward, finishing with a final thrust.
Forward Tilt-Bandana Dee jabs his spear forward twice. Resembles Joker's side tilt, but with a spear.
Back Tilt (Back Thrust)-Bandana Dee thrusts his spear behind him. Deals less damage, but has the longest range of all his ground attacks.
Up Tilt-Bandana Dee thrusts his spear upwards.
Down Tilt-A slide kick.
Dash Attack-A rushing stab.
Smash Attacks
Side Smash-Bandana Dee twirls his spear, then stabs forward.
Up Smash-Bandana Dee unfurls his parasol, then spins it above his head.
Down Smash-Bandana Dee spins his spear around himself on the ground.
Aerials
Neutral Aerial-Bandana Dee twirls his spear around himself like a fan.
Forward Aerial-Bandana Dee swings his spear in front of him. Resembles Byleth's forward aerial.
Back Aerial-Bandana Dee holds his parasol behind himself as it spins.
Up Aerial-Bandana Dee twirls his spear as he stabs upwards.
Down Air (Moon Drop)-A falling stab.
Throws
Grab-Bandana Dee grabs the opponent.
Pummel-Bandana Dee jabs the opponent.
Forward Throw-Bandana Dee throws the opponent like a spear.
Back Throw-A back drop. Resembles Kirby's back throw.
Up Throw (Circus Throw)-Bandana Dee juggles the opponent above his head with his parasol, then tosses them upwards.
Down Throw (Megaton Punch)-Bandana Dee jumps up and punches the opponent. Buries opponents.
Specials
Neutral Special (Spear Throw)-Bandana Dee throws his spear. Charging it will increase the power, distance amount of spears thrown, maxing out at three.
Side Special (Ground Spear)-Bandana Dee stabs his spear into the ground, then rushes forward, finishing with and upwards flick. Pressing the button in the middle of the attack will cause him to do a pole-vault instead. In the air, he just swings the spear vertically in front of himself, like Byleth's side special.
Up Special (Waddle Copter)-Bandana Dee spins his spear above his head, propelling him into the air. Can be charged to increase distance. After entering freefall, he slowly spins the spear above his head, damaging anyone who touches it.
Down Special (Parasol Drill)-Bandana Dee rushes forwards, parasol outstretched. This reflects any projectile that it hits. In the air, he spins the parasol below himself, acting as a barrier for any anti-air attacks.
Final Smash (Waddle Dee Army)-Bandana Dee calls forth an army of Waddle Dees, Waddle Doos, and various other Kirby enemies to assault the stage. Effectively the same as Dedede's Brawl Final Smash.
That is all to say, if another Kirby character with popularity that seems a bit more organic began to recur even just once in a while, like Susie, or Marx, or Magolor, I do think Dee would lose a lot of the foothold he has popularity-wise.
Slight counterpoint, Magolor is a recurring character, even beyond Kirby Star Allies. Though to be fair it's all in the side games that fewer people care about.
And? Who cares if we have a random enemy in Smash that's a playable character? We have . I don't think BWD is problem because of that. That argument is so weak because it literally doesn't matter, and never did. It's the worst argument I have ever seen against a character in Smash history, and that says something.
I do want to say that while yes, Piranha Plant does prove that characters like it are possible, it doesn't necessarily prove that they're desireable, or at the very least, it doesn't mean that everyone has to like them.
Bandana Waddle Dee isn't a generic enemy so Piranha Plant's inclusion doesn't even matter in regards to him, but even if it did, it shouldn't really be used as a sort of catch-all argument.
Since we seem to be posting movesets now, I brought out my old Bandana Dee moveset from a while back.
Bandana Waddle Dee is a relatively simple character, keeping in line with Kirby's easy, casual gameplay. Much like how Kirby is a beginner-friendly character in general, Bandana Dee is a beginner-friendly zoner. He's fairly mobile, with decent speed both on the ground and in the air. He fights with his trusty spear, which sometimes doubles up as a parasol. As a result, he has decently long disjoints, which makes him stand out from the other small characters, who mostly fight at close range. However, he suffers from being light and easy to launch, and his range is balanced by his so-so damage output and middling combo potential.
Attributes:
While Bandana Dee lacks any real gimmicks, he does have a handful of noteworthy attributes.
Much like Marth's Falchion, Bandana Dee's spear has a sweetspot at the end.
Bandana Dee's parasol attacks (Up smash, back air, and down special) can reflect projectiles.
Bandana Dee has access to a back tilt as well as a forward tilt, based on his Back Thrust attack.
Normals
Jab-Bandana Dee swings his spear inwards, then outwards, followed by a thrust.
Flurry Attack-Bandana Dee rapidly stabs forward, finishing with a final thrust.
Forward Tilt-Bandana Dee jabs his spear forward twice. Resembles Joker's side tilt, but with a spear.
Back Tilt (Back Thrust)-Bandana Dee thrusts his spear behind him. Deals less damage, but has the longest range of all his ground attacks.
Up Tilt-Bandana Dee thrusts his spear upwards.
Down Tilt-A slide kick.
Dash Attack-A rushing stab.
Smash Attacks
Side Smash-Bandana Dee twirls his spear, then stabs forward.
Up Smash-Bandana Dee unfurls his parasol, then spins it above his head.
Down Smash-Bandana Dee spins his spear around himself on the ground.
Aerials
Neutral Aerial-Bandana Dee twirls his spear around himself like a fan.
Forward Aerial-Bandana Dee swings his spear in front of him. Resembles Byleth's forward aerial.
Back Aerial-Bandana Dee holds his parasol behind himself as it spins.
Up Aerial-Bandana Dee twirls his spear as he stabs upwards.
Down Air (Moon Drop)-A falling stab.
Throws
Grab-Bandana Dee grabs the opponent.
Pummel-Bandana Dee jabs the opponent.
Forward Throw-Bandana Dee throws the opponent like a spear.
Back Throw-A back drop. Resembles Kirby's back throw.
Up Throw (Circus Throw)-Bandana Dee juggles the opponent above his head with his parasol, then tosses them upwards.
Down Throw (Megaton Punch)-Bandana Dee jumps up and punches the opponent. Buries opponents.
Specials
Neutral Special (Spear Throw)-Bandana Dee throws his spear. Charging it will increase the power, distance amount of spears thrown, maxing out at three.
Side Special (Ground Spear)-Bandana Dee stabs his spear into the ground, then rushes forward, finishing with and upwards flick. Pressing the button in the middle of the attack will cause him to do a pole-vault instead. In the air, he just swings the spear vertically in front of himself, like Byleth's side special.
Up Special (Waddle Copter)-Bandana Dee spins his spear above his head, propelling him into the air. Can be charged to increase distance. After entering freefall, he slowly spins the spear above his head, damaging anyone who touches it.
Down Special (Parasol Drill)-Bandana Dee rushes forwards, parasol outstretched. This reflects any projectile that it hits. In the air, he spins the parasol below himself, acting as a barrier for any anti-air attacks.
Final Smash (Waddle Dee Army)-Bandana Dee calls forth an army of Waddle Dees, Waddle Doos, and various other Kirby enemies to assault the stage. Effectively the same as Dedede's Brawl Final Smash.
Granted, the post was created only to prove that Bandana Dee has merit without being the "coolest" character and moveset potential without the need for a basket full of gimmicks.
Whether or not you actually like the concept/character is obviously subjective.
View attachment 281594 Granted, the post was created only to prove that Bandana Dee has merit without being the "coolest" character and moveset potential without the need for a basket full of gimmicks.
Whether or not you actually like the concept/character is obviously subjective.
Bandana Dee would have been pretty cool...for the base roster, but I wouldn't find him to be a terribly exciting choice if I had to shell out extra money for him.
Honestly Dee is the character that I was the most surprise that didn't make the cut in the base game. I'm pretty sure he did extremely well in the ballot so it's surprising that he don't even have an assist trophy like Isaac for example.
Even if you were to leave out elemental powers, parasols, and borrowing from other Waddle Dees, Bandana Waddle Dee would still be plenty unique. A lightweight, small character with an emphasis on range, disjoints, and tippers while having average to subpar mobility and frame-data would definitely be interesting relative to the rest of the roster. A character doesn't need to have an elaborate mechanical different to be special.
Honestly, I think going easier on the gimmicks for future DLC fighters isn't necessarily a bad idea. A lot of the mechanics are pretty cool and I know Sakurai wants to differentiate the DLC cast from the base game characters, but Syndrome may've been right about superpowers.
Isaac gets more popular when he's seen to have a better chance, sure, but that's actually one of the least fitting comparisons in my opinion. I contend that Bandana Dee's popularity is owing to his recurring presence and his perceived "next in line" status more so than the innate character itself. I think any character in Dee's position would wind up with Dee's popularity, and if there was another prevalent character to challenge him, his popularity would falter.
Meanwhile Isaac might chart lower than Bandana Dee when he's less expected, but his series hasn't had a game in a decade, he hasn't been playable in eighteen years, and he hasn't been the protagonist since the first game in his series. GS was hardly seen as next in line for new series to be added, it still isn't, and he's not seen as next in line for possible AT promotions. And despite all that, he regularly ranks at least within the top twenty, but has gone all the way up to the top two or three at times.
So he's basically in the opposite situation, where he series is doing him absolutely no favours, he's outranked by other options in terms of prevalence and likelihood, and yet... he still remains more popular than he really has any right to be.
Even if you were to leave out elemental powers, parasols, and borrowing from other Waddle Dees, Bandana Waddle Dee would still be plenty unique. A lightweight, small character with an emphasis on range, disjoints, and tippers while having average to subpar mobility and frame-data would definitely be interesting relative to the rest of the roster. A character doesn't need to have an elaborate mechanical different to be special.
Honestly, I think going easier on the gimmicks for future DLC fighters isn't necessarily a bad idea. A lot of the mechanics are pretty cool and I know Sakurai wants to differentiate the DLC cast from the base game characters, but Syndrome may've been right about superpowers.
This is true. I think the only character that somewhat fits this description is Mr. Game & Watch, but he's a bait & punish character, and Meta Knight, but he's...pretty unfocused if I'm being honest.
Even if you were to leave out elemental powers, parasols, and borrowing from other Waddle Dees, Bandana Waddle Dee would still be plenty unique. A lightweight, small character with an emphasis on range, disjoints, and tippers while having average to subpar mobility and frame-data would definitely be interesting relative to the rest of the roster. A character doesn't need to have an elaborate mechanical different to be special.
Honestly, I think going easier on the gimmicks for future DLC fighters isn't necessarily a bad idea. A lot of the mechanics are pretty cool and I know Sakurai wants to differentiate the DLC cast from the base game characters, but Syndrome may've been right about superpowers.
Characters like Byleth don't have substantial gimmicks, and they're still fun to play as according to the community.
If you think about Bandana Dee's theoretical moveset beyond spear, spear, and spear, he has plenty of potential for a fun, unique and interesting moveset using only what he has utilized from his time with the Kirby series.
People just tend to have surface-level thinking with characters like Bandana Dee for some reason though.
Bandana Dee's popularity is owing to his recurring presence and his perceived "next in line" status more so than the innate character itself. I think any character in Dee's position would wind up with Dee's popularity, and if there was another prevalent character to challenge him, his popularity would falter.
I mean, sure. If there's a more often recurring character that resonated with people more then they'd get the support, but I think the claim that people only like Bandana Waddle Dee because they see him more often is a bit disingenuous.
Characters like Byleth don't have substantial gimmicks, and they're still fun to play as according to the community.
If you think about Bandana Dee's theoretical moveset beyond spear, spear, and spear, he has plenty of potential for a fun, unique and interesting moveset using only what he has utilized from his time with the Kirby series.
People just tend to have surface-level thinking with characters like Bandana Dee for some reason though.
Isaac gets more popular when he's seen to have a better chance, sure, but that's actually one of the least fitting comparisons in my opinion. I contend that Bandana Dee's popularity is owing to his recurring presence and his perceived "next in line" status more so than the innate character itself. I think any character in Dee's position would wind up with Dee's popularity, and if there was another prevalent character to challenge him, his popularity would falter.
Meanwhile Isaac might chart lower than Bandana Dee when he's less expected, but his series hasn't had a game in a decade, he hasn't been playable in eighteen years, and he hasn't been the protagonist since the first game in his series. GS was hardly seen as next in line for new series to be added, it still isn't, and he's not seen as next in line for possible AT promotions. And despite all that, he regularly ranks at least within the top twenty, but has gone all the way up to the top two or three at times.
So he's basically in the opposite situation, where he series is doing him absolutely no favours, he's outranked by other options in terms of prevalence and likelihood, and yet... he still remains more popular than he really has any right to be.
Good point. I think a better comparison would be Pokemon or Fire Emblem, given they cycle through the hot new stuff every generation. Still, it would be a gradual process; I've seen a small amount of support flare up for new Kirby characters like Susie and the Mage Sisters, only for it to die down as their games fade from recent memory.
For someone to fully supplant Bandana Dee at this point would take until the release of Smash 6, maybe even well into the DLC. BWD's stuck around for about a decade, and that was long enough to ingrain himself as the fourth main character. It would take another four-to-six years to become an actual rival to BWD, and another four-to-six to truly replace him. There's the recurrence for sure, but mainline Kirby games take a couple years to release. For another Kirby character to become regularly recurring would take a while.
I just want to say, there's a reason so many people play the swordsmen archetype despite their inclusion being so controversial. There's a sort of elegance to simplicity. I'm all for having complicated characters with meters and shadow powers and what not, but having simple ones can be a really refreshing change of pace.
I personally have no horse in the Waddle Dee race, but I'll defend simple movesets any day of the week.
Honestly Dee is the character that I was the most surprise that didn't make the cut in the base game. I'm pretty sure he did extremely well in the ballot so it's surprising that he don't even have an assist trophy like Isaac for example.
I don't consider it that surprising when one considers that they had a lot of characters already on their plate:
()
(Echo with no differences *grumbles some more.*) (Echo with most differences)
(Meant for base)
That in addition to bringing back:
(And inserting a clapping animation for Nana intended to make chain-throws - what made them infamous back in Melee and especially Brawl - impossible. Of course, enterprising Ice Climbers players have found ways to circumvent the clapping and get grab combos, but they're more difficult than wobbling / chainthrowing were.) (And rebalancing him to be a more combo-centric Link.) (And retooling the little rodent from a joke character to a legitimate killing machine.) (They toned down his survivability in exchange for speed, and removed the mine down smash. Probably because his playstyle has explosives everywhere anyway.) (They removed the 2 special mechanics PKMN Trainer had in Brawl because the mechanics were detrimental, and additionally rebalanced the Pokemon themselves to be more viable and good at their respective specialities.) (They reworked him into more of a jack of all trades and master at controlling and landing hits.)
If they had more time, they could've gotten someone like BWD in, but as Plant's initial status shows... yea they didn't have any more time really.
Honestly Dee is the character that I was the most surprise that didn't make the cut in the base game. I'm pretty sure he did extremely well in the ballot so it's surprising that he don't even have an assist trophy like Isaac for example.
Honestly Dee is the character that I was the most surprise that didn't make the cut in the base game. I'm pretty sure he did extremely well in the ballot so it's surprising that he don't even have an assist trophy like Isaac for example.
Remember, the roster was finalized at the end of 2015. Back then, all Bandana Dee had was two playable appearances, a role as the food man, and a talkative NPC appearance. It was more than most Kirby characters, but in the grand scheme of things it's not much. His appearances pretty much doubled after that point; I'd go as far as to say he's a missed-chance rep like Rex and Spring Man.
If Mario introduced a Goomba that used a bat and had a tophat and he was called Tophat Goomba, and was really working to be Bowser's secnd hand man, itd be the same exact scenario with Bandanna Dee.
This is like that old Bazoomba thing that apparently happened when we first rated Bandana Dee. On that note, Dees have canonically used missile launchers in Epic Yarn and Robobot (Albiet with mech suits in the later), so we could actually have Bandana Dee with a bazooka.
Perfect for 2 framing people right at the ledge too just to grief them. Min Min would be jealous.
I don't consider it that surprising when one considers that they had a lot of characters already on their plate:
()
(Echo with no differences *grumbles some more.*) (Echo with most differences)
(Meant for base)
That in addition to bringing back:
(And inserting a clapping animation for Nana intended to make chain-throws - what made them infamous back in Melee and especially Brawl - impossible. Of course, enterprising Ice Climbers players have found ways to circumvent the clapping and get grab combos, but they're more difficult than wobbling / chainthrowing were.) (And rebalancing him to be a more combo-centric Link.) (And retooling the little rodent from a joke character to a legitimate killing machine.) (They toned down his survivability in exchange for speed, and removed the mine down smash. Probably because his playstyle has explosives everywhere anyway.) (They removed the 2 special mechanics PKMN Trainer had in Brawl because the mechanics were detrimental, and additionally rebalanced the Pokemon themselves to be more viable and good at their respective specialities.) (They reworked him into more of a jack of all trades and master at controlling and landing hits.)
If they had more time, they could've gotten someone like BWD in, but as Plant's initial status shows... yea they didn't have any more time really.
Honestly, if you consider Ken an "echo with most differences", I think you may as well put Isabelle on that pile, too. She and Ken are both semi-clones, it's just that one is arbitrarily called an echo fighter (Sakurai flat out admitted this) and the other isn't.
So when you think about it, Ultimate had only five unique, non-deriative newcomers. Damn.
You know, on the topic of Reimu having her Popularity circulated in the Eastern Parts of the world being a point against her (Like how it was for Takamuru), Disregarding the difference between those 2 Characters...
Little Mac and Ridley are kinda the Inverse of that. Popular in West, but not so much in the East. Do you think a Very Western Focused character has a better chance than a Very Eastern Focused character?
I think people are going to be disappointed if they continue to anticipate Bandana Dee, for the simple reason that Sakurai doesn't seem to want to add him. People talk about FE bias, and before that KI bias. And all these other inconsistent biases that Sakurai seemingly has. And I think almost all of that is nonsense.
The one bias I do think is valid, is that Sakurai is clearly biased towards his own tenure within the Kirby series. One only needs to look at what we've received to date. The post-Sakurai Kirby stuff gets some trophies, some spirits, attention in the FSs, a music track here or there... but there have been zero stages, zero ATs, zero items, the boss is one of his, and most of the music and lesser content does disproportionately skew towards the Sakurai games. I mean we have more stuff from a spin-off like Air Ride than most mainline non-Sakurai games.
And that bias, evidently, also affects the roster. Because Bandana Dee is quite popular, and has enough merit I suppose. He undoubtably placed well enough on the ballot for some sort of recognition, even if not playable, but all he got was a spirit. With 4, I don't think he was even in the game.
So... you can keep hoping for him, but I personally wouldn't expect to see the character until Sakurai parts ways with Smash.
You know, on the topic of Reimu having her Popularity circulated in the Eastern Parts of the world being a point against her (Like how it was for Takamuru), Disregarding the difference between those 2 Characters...
Little Mac and Ridley are kinda the Inverse of that. Popular in West, but not so much in the East. Do you think a Very Western Focused character has a better chance than a Very Eastern Focused character?
Not really. It would still be a limited focus. It should also be noted that Little Mac and Ridley have had multiple appearances, most likely in worldwide releases as well (I know Metroid is global, don't know for Punch-Out), while Mysterious Murasame Castle was just that one game and that's it.
I'd also like to point out that Little Mac and Ridley were pretty big requests, while Takamaru seemed to be mildly popular but mostly a "Yeah, he's probably happening" type of guy. As for the point against Reimu, while it does hurt her chances a little, Touhou is a huge, long-running series that's also had at least some content available in the West. It hurts her chances a little, but it's not a deal-breaker like Takamaru.
I think people are going to be disappointed if they continue to anticipate Bandana Dee, for the simple reason that Sakurai doesn't seem to want to add him. People talk about FE bias, and before that KI bias. And all these other inconsistent biases that Sakurai seemingly has. And I think almost all of that is nonsense.
The one bias I do think is valid, is that Sakurai is clearly biased towards his own tenure within the Kirby series. One only needs to look at what we've received to date. The post-Sakurai Kirby stuff gets some trophies, some spirits, attention in the FSs, a music track here or there... but there have been zero stages, zero ATs, the boss is one of his, and most of the music and lesser content does disproportionately skew towards the Sakurai games. I mean we have more stuff from a spin-off like Air Ride than most mainline non-Sakurai games.
And that bias, evidently, also affects the roster. Because Bandana Dee is quite popular, and deserving enough I suppose. He undoubtably placed well enough on the ballot for some sort of recognition, even if not playable, but all he got was a spirit. With 4, I don't think he was even in the game.
So... you can keep hoping for him, but I personally wouldn't expect to see the character until Sakurai parts ways with Smash.
Nintendo chooses the DLC. If they make him add Bandana Dee, he'll add Bandana Dee. As for the whole bias thing, there wasn't much added for Kirby in general. The two major things were Kawasaki and Marx; The former preserves Kirby's Brawl Final Smash, and the other is among the most popular and easily-translated boss fights.
I'm mainly worried about Bandana Dee because he doesn't really have a game to tie himself down to, which could spell trouble for a supporting character.
I think people are going to be disappointed if they continue to anticipate Bandana Dee, for the simple reason that Sakurai doesn't seem to want to add him. People talk about FE bias, and before that KI bias. And all these other inconsistent biases that Sakurai seemingly has. And I think almost all of that is nonsense.
The one bias I do think is valid, is that Sakurai is clearly biased towards his own tenure within the Kirby series. One only needs to look at what we've received to date. The post-Sakurai Kirby stuff gets some trophies, some spirits, attention in the FSs, a music track here or there... but there have been zero stages, zero ATs, zero items, the boss is one of his, and most of the music and lesser content does disproportionately skew towards the Sakurai games. I mean we have more stuff from a spin-off like Air Ride than most mainline non-Sakurai games.
And that bias, evidently, also affects the roster. Because Bandana Dee is quite popular, and deserving enough I suppose. He undoubtably placed well enough on the ballot for some sort of recognition, even if not playable, but all he got was a spirit. With 4, I don't think he was even in the game.
So... you can keep hoping for him, but I personally wouldn't expect to see the character until Sakurai parts ways with Smash.
That's mostly a build-up of stuff from previous games, and the Spirits still include the regularly-recurring mooks. The only actually new stuff is Kawasaki, who preserves Kirby's Brawl FS, and Marx, who's both popular and easy to translate into Smash. It's a side effect of bringing back old stuff and bringing much new stuff.
Yeah, but I don't think Bandana Dee is going to be on the tips of their tongues. Not like ARMS, that wasn't represented at all. Or some third-party series that'll bring in a new demographic. Or a character resting at the peak of the charts. If they want to go the popular route, there are more popular choices out there.
It'd be a very random choice for them, which is why I doubt it'll happen.
As for the whole bias thing, there wasn't much added for Kirby in general. The two major things were Kawasaki and Marx; The former preserves Kirby's Brawl Final Smash, and the other is among the most popular and easily-translated boss fights.
You've got to look at the whole picture, not just Ultimate. Ultimate is the continuation of a Kirby slant that has always been present in Smash. It's not like it bucked the trend of Sakurai preferring his own content. In fact, it just continued to reinforce it.
I'm mainly worried about Bandana Dee because he doesn't really have a game to tie himself down to, which could spell trouble for a supporting character.
What, like a game where he's the star? I kinda doubt that's the biggest problem he has to deal with - some supporting characters have gotten in without ever being a primary focus of a game. Though usually they're second or third in line... not fourth... but still.
Not to mention if it really was like BWD, he'd also be friends with Mario (and occasional ally/playable character) despite being one of Bowser's soldiers.
Which is already more development than any Mario minion had outside of the spinoffs.
This is like that old Bazoomba thing that apparently happened when we first rated Bandana Dee. On that note, Dees have canonically used missile launchers in Epic Yarn and Robobot (Albiet with mech suits in the later), so we could actually have Bandana Dee with a bazooka.
I'm mainly worried about Bandana Dee because he doesn't really have a game to tie himself down to, which could spell trouble for a supporting character.
Nah a bigger problem would be simply not appearing in many games. This is why characters like Impa, Tifa, or Caeda will likely never happen unless they start becoming more prominent.
I'm coming off tinfoily here, but Shantae getting all this merch the Seven Sirens physical copies and her gbc and Risky's revenge ports to Switch and Ps4 all coming in September AND Seven Sirens coming out in Japan phyiscally and digitally in October (SS physical could still come in August with it's vague "Q3" release date) makes me think Shantae could be revealed in that timeframe for Smash.
Banjo&Kazooie got similar merch ramp up right before they were revealed in Smash too
About Reimu, people are bringing Takamaru as an example of how she could not get in, but we have a counter example: Marth and Roy. Both characters never appeared in the West before Melee and yet Sakurai still put them in. The difference with Takamaru is that even in Japan, Takamaru is a pretty niche game, while Fire emblem or Touhou project have a pretty great following there.
Also a lot of people are bringing the fact that Sakurai wouldn't have put Lucas in Brawl if he knew that Mother 3 wouldn't release outside of Japan or something like that, but I never saw that official quote, so if anyone have the source for that I'd like to see it.
About Reimu, people are bringing Takamaru as an example of how she could not get in, but we have a counter example: Marth and Roy. Both characters never appeared in the West before Melee and yet Sakurai still put them in. The difference with Takamaru is that even in Japan, Takamaru is a pretty niche game, while Fire emblem or Touhou project have a pretty great following there.
Do keep in mind that Marth and Roy were originally planned to be purged from all non-JP versions of Melee. They ultimately weren't, but the fact that it almost happened because of their obscurity in the west isn't a great sign for Japan only franchises.
About Reimu, people are bringing Takamaru as an example of how she could not get in, but we have a counter example: Marth and Roy. Both characters never appeared in the West before Melee and yet Sakurai still put them in. The difference with Takamaru is that even in Japan, Takamaru is a pretty niche game, while Fire emblem or Touhou project have a pretty great following there.
Another difference is that Fire Emblem did have plans to have a localized game, though Marth was going to be in the previous game had time allowed that.
It's also worth noting that Super Smash Bros. wasn't the cultural phenomenon that it is today and that could have made considerations a bit different than it is now (although there are characters in that game who were passed on for worldwide obscurity in Melee as well as seen with Aumi Tachibana).
Do keep in mind that Marth and Roy were originally planned to be purged from all non-JP versions of Melee. They ultimately weren't, but the fact that it almost happened because of their obscurity in the west isn't a great sign for Japan only franchises.
Another difference is that Fire Emblem did have plans to have a localized game, though Marth was going to be in the previous game had time allowed that.
It's also worth noting that Super Smash Bros. wasn't the cultural phenomenon that it is today and that could have made considerations a bit different than it is now (although there are characters in that game who were passed on for worldwide obscurity in Melee as well as seen with Aumi Tachibana).
Oof. Can you imagine if a game simply got rid of two entire characters in your region? That'd be just the worst feeling.
Feel like mentioning also that Lucas was inserted into Brawl while Sakurai thought Mother 3 was going to get an international release. It didn’t but Sakurai was too far in to cut him, so he stayed, and returned as DLC for 4 due to popular demand
. I don't think BWD is problem because of that. That argument is so weak because it literally doesn't matter, and never did. It's the worst argument I have ever seen against a character in Smash history, and that says something.
