Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[KillerCage]

Here's an idea then. The last character you played as is playable, and their homestage is the last stage you played, who is it? For me, it'd be Rouge the Bat and her homestage is Security Hall from SA2. Not the Sonic character I hoped for tbh

I was playing Freedom Planet so that means Sash Lilac with her homestage being Forture Night 1.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I feel like some people are too focused on the concept of promoting new games. That only happened twice in the first pass, with Hero and Byleth. There isn't even an ARMS 2 to promote at the moment. I know there's XCDE, but what would there be to add? We already have Shulk and Gaur Plain. Besides, XC2 was a hit and got a lot of extra content after release. Sure, ARMS sold better, but XC2 got more attention. If Rex was added, that would sell because XC2 did well and the success would bleed into Smash.

You could argue that three of the four non-veteran first-parties added as DLC, Corrin, Byleth and Min Min, are promotional for different reasons.

If first-parties are part of the discussion, I feel like it's natural to assume "promotional" characters are the most likely.

I think the best way to describe it is that "promotional" first-parties don't have to be like in that their game just came out in the past few months/was yet to come out outside Japan at the time.

 

[MooMew64]

Let's not pretend video game movies are too important because they're not.

Says you: The Mario movie confirmed Mario's canon full name is "Mario Mario"!

 

[SKX31]

Regardless, those are

• already successfully franchises,
• franchises already in Smash, and
• like the only two good video game movies lol

Let's not pretend video game movies are too important because they're not.

Still though, those could serve as a turning point for video game-based movies. They're not going to become mega-popular cornerstones of the franchises overnight, but movie corps seeing what Detective Pikachu and the Sonic movie did will be at least a little more confident in video game-based movies going forward.

(And also, "Already successful franchises" feels kinda moot in a world where already established names like Marvel and Star Wars dominate movie theatres. Hell, the #1 and #2 Worldwide this year are Bad Boys for Life and the Sonic movie.)

And then China banned all Switch sales

[Chinese vendors continue to sell Switches under the counter using such names as "Macho Man Playing Mahjong"*, creating the infamous Chinese Switch black market. All because of a meme that started in China.]

*(This actually happened with AC, which the Chinese state blacklisted... but Chinese vendors continued to sell under the counter anyway. Using similar codenames too.)

 

[PeridotGX]

Well they do have a blank template as well if you want to fill both passes with characters you want.

Here is our DLC Character Template, based on the #SmashUltimate Website!

Includes:
2 Variants, Customizable Text, 12 Slots, Customizable Background Colour, and Icon and Character Spaces!

PNG & PSD versions available

Check it out here:https://t.co/CzwGI55qTH pic.twitter.com/zL9HFk2VDY

— Templates For Smash 📝 (@Templates4Smash) July 15, 2020

I made my wishlist using this template. Paint.net doesn't really like the gradient in the background, so I had to leave it be, unfortunately.

 

[Arcadenik]

thankfully, there aren't many good Gen 1 options left. It's only really Eevee, Meowth, and Gengar, and only the latter has any moveset potential.

Thankfully Team Rocket has plenty of moveset potential.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Thankfully Team Rocket has plenty of moveset potential.

View attachment 279985
View attachment 279986

Say, how did Pokemon Masters handle Team Rocket's canonicity? I thought I read somewhere that the game involved dimensional travel, but I also remember them being in Yellow/Let's Go, so I couldn't tell.

 

[Arcadenik]

Say, how did Pokemon Masters handle Team Rocket's canonicity? I thought I read somewhere that the game involved dimensional travel, but I also remember them being in Yellow/Let's Go, so I couldn't tell.

Jessie and James in Pokémon Masters seem to be from the anime.

Then again, they were canon in Pokémon Yellow and Let’s Go... and those games were main games, not spin-off games.

 

[SharkLord]

I think the best way to describe it is that "promotional" first-parties don't have to be like in that their game just came out in the past few months/was yet to come out outside Japan at the time.

Yes, that's what I meant, thank you for explaining it better. Rex can still plug for Xenoblade even if he's three years old now, because he's still Xenoblade, and XC2 did pretty well. Not BotW well, obviously, but still pretty well. Plus, People could play Rex or Shulk's games, come out wanting more, and find out there's an entire series. This leads to demands for Xenoblade increasing, preferably followed by Xenoblade Chronicles X being remastered for the Switch and the hypXC3 doing really well.

I have a question for people. Since Sakurai is obviously trying to make each DLC character bring something new to the table and I think he's even claimed as much, do your most wanteds actually have the capacity to do so? For example, I know Rex talk has gotten stale, but I would like Rex (even though I'm unsure if Nintendo agrees), and one of his strengths is that Pyra and the concept of Blades provides some material for unique play mechanics.

My unpopular opinion is Crash, while iconic, I feel would probably have a basic b*tch moveset. I have a hard time imagining some kind of unique mechanic that hasn't been done belonging solely to him. If someone wants to prove me wrong, I encourage it.

I don't think a character needs to have a gimmick to be added, just fresh and new. Case in point: . Still, my personal holy trinity could each bring something new to the table.

• Reimu has the most potential out of the three, bringing flight, Options, loads of projectiles, barriers, Focusing... Yeah, she's got a lot. I think the basic requirements are A: Flight, since everyone in Touhou can fly and it's even her personal ability, B: Her talismans, which are her main shot types, C: The Yin-Yang Orbs as either projectiles or Options, since those are her signature items, and D: A barrier, since she manages the Hakurei Barrier. Focusing would be nice too, since that's a major part of Touhou gameplay.
• Bandana Dee would probably be the most simple of the three, around Banjo/Byleth levels of uniqueness. He uses a spear (And maybe a parasol too), and he'd be unique in that he's a small character with good range, since most have pitiful reach. No real gimmicks to his name, but he'd still be different, unique, and fun even without one.
• Klonoa would be somewhere in between. No crazy abilities, but he'd definitely be a grappler. The Wind Ring is integral to Klonoa's gameplay, and he'd probably have stuff like an air grab and not being slowed down when lifting heavy items. He'd also be unique as a lightweight grappler, since traditionally those are mountains of muscle (i.e. Zangief).

 

[SvartWolf]

Jessie and James in Pokémon Masters seem to be from the anime.

Then again, they were canon in Pokémon Yellow and Let’s Go... and those games were main games, not spin-off games.

I agree that if i had to salvage something from the pokemon mainstay anime, would be team rocket, and honestly i'm not alone considering is probably the only thing that has come from teh anime to the main games?

That being said... centering team rockets pokemon around ekans and koffing (even if we would have certain youtber memes if ekans comes to smash) is a little .. reductionist, and centers it towards a very specific demographic that in turn.. likely don't want anything to do with the anime. Taking from teh plethora of pokemon that team rocket have obtained during the ages, you have both the oportunity to represent other pokemons beside gen one, some even extremely popular by their own right such as mimikyu, and also manage to connect with younger players that may still have some nostalgia from teh anime and... dont get nostalgia from say, banjo kazooie.

Obviously though, meowth would be the exception, but, whatever, you have him to please the firs gen lovers.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Here's an idea then. The last character you played as is playable, and their homestage is the last stage you played, who is it? For me, it'd be Rouge the Bat and her homestage is Security Hall from SA2. Not the Sonic character I hoped for tbh

Sora. Homestage is Kingdom of Corona... Well that's an unfortunate name lol (it's where Tangled takes place)

 

[Teeb147]

I'm pretty sure if Overwatch was to get a character it would Tracer. Jeff Kaplan, the game's director, literally said in a Overwatch 2 interview that if had to choose someone to be in Smash, it would be Tracer.
Here's the source: https://youtu.be/Zwq1FtM_WVE?t=191

I didn't know they actually said something about smash :D That's great tho, I'd like Tracer

If you think about it, Blizzard is a pretty big company, I wonder if Nintendo would like to do more with them.

 

[RileyXY1]

Say, how did Pokemon Masters handle Team Rocket's canonicity? I thought I read somewhere that the game involved dimensional travel, but I also remember them being in Yellow/Let's Go, so I couldn't tell.

Yellow was based somewhat on the anime, and LGPE is a remake of Yellow.

 

[StrangeKitten]

Thankfully Team Rocket has plenty of moveset potential.

One cannot have Team Rocket in Smash without . He's still on their team to this day! I feel like I'd also be remiss not to bring up , since it's also a staple that James gets a Pokemon that bites his head every few regions. Poor James

Edit: Actually, just the three you listed would work well if we're strictly basing Team Rocket on the games. I just tend to think of their anime counterparts first and foremost, for obvious reasons

 

[toonito]

What's a character you want purely for their significance to gaming as a whole? Mine is definitely Crash Bandicoot.

Characters
Ezio Auditore
Jill Valentine/Leon Kennedy
Lara Croft
Master Chief
Doom Slayer
Monster Hunter
Scorpion
Crash Bandicoot
Heihachi
Sora
Dante
Kratos

Stages
Tetris
Minecraft
Civilization

IMO these are the most significant gaming characters and stages not in Smash

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Tetris does seem like a no brainer for a stage.

Wonder why it hasn't happened yet.

 

[Jomosensual]

Here's an idea then. The last character you played as is playable, and their homestage is the last stage you played, who is it? For me, it'd be Rouge the Bat and her homestage is Security Hall from SA2. Not the Sonic character I hoped for tbh

Jason Brody from Far Cry 3. His stage is the village i cant remember the name of right now

 

[Arcadenik]

I agree that if i had to salvage something from the pokemon mainstay anime, would be team rocket, and honestly i'm not alone considering is probably the only thing that has come from teh anime to the main games?

That being said... centering team rockets pokemon around ekans and koffing (even if we would have certain youtber memes if ekans comes to smash) is a little .. reductionist, and centers it towards a very specific demographic that in turn.. likely don't want anything to do with the anime. Taking from teh plethora of pokemon that team rocket have obtained during the ages, you have both the oportunity to represent other pokemons beside gen one, some even extremely popular by their own right such as mimikyu, and also manage to connect with younger players that may still have some nostalgia from teh anime and... dont get nostalgia from say, banjo kazooie.

Obviously though, meowth would be the exception, but, whatever, you have him to please the firs gen lovers.

This sounds a bit contradictory to me.

“Don’t want anything to do with the anime”
“Such as Mimikyu”

Jessie never had a Mimikyu in the video games... so much for not wanting anything to do with the anime.

In all their video game appearances, Jessie and James have always had Ekans/Arbok and Koffing/Weezing and Meowth.

This idea you are suggesting reminds me of the multi-gen Pokémon Trainer idea with playable Pokémon from different generations... just to please a very specific demographic that only cares about representing every single generation. That’s not how Jessie and James were portrayed in the video games.

Jessie and James are extremely popular in their own right... which was why they got in Let’s Go in the first place. Younger players might not get nostalgia from Banjo-Kazooie (1998) but I think they might get nostalgia from Pokémon Let’s Go (2018), Pokémon GO (2016), and Pokémon Masters (2019)... all recent games from the last 5 years... and I think Jessie and James gained some more fans thanks to those games.

 

[cashregister9]

Here's an idea then. The last character you played as is playable, and their homestage is the last stage you played, who is it? For me, it'd be Rouge the Bat and her homestage is Security Hall from SA2. Not the Sonic character I hoped for tbh

Agent 47 and the stage would be Miami Florida

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Agent 47 and the stage would be Miami Florida

Only if they wear masks.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Agent 47 and the stage would be Miami Florida

insert "your most wanted has been found dead in Miami" joke here

(reference to the Scrappy Doo Found Dead In Miami meme)

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Here's an idea then. The last character you played as is playable, and their homestage is the last stage you played, who is it? For me, it'd be Rouge the Bat and her homestage is Security Hall from SA2. Not the Sonic character I hoped for tbh

TOK Paper Mario

Shogun Studios

Not a bad combo, even if a little redundant with Ryu's stage.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Meanwhile, the three Male Byleth fans (including me):
View attachment 279929

*rises hand* four male byleth fans

Sora. Homestage is Kingdom of Corona... Well that's an unfortunate name lol (it's where Tangled takes place)

Why that stage when you have the Dive to the Heart, Twilight Town, Traverse Town, The World That Never Was, Hallow Bastion, Radiant Garden, ect

oh my bad, had to click to see the post, last stage pff

 

[Kotor]

Here's an idea then. The last character you played as is playable, and their homestage is the last stage you played, who is it? For me, it'd be Rouge the Bat and her homestage is Security Hall from SA2. Not the Sonic character I hoped for tbh

Arthur: So let me get this straight, Dutch. You want me to go to Valentine, and risk my life to rob a man with a sword, an ape, a dog with a duck on its back, and some ***** with green hair? Have you lost your goddamn mind?

Dutch: Have some goddamn faith, Arthur!

 

[Cosmic77]

Tetris does seem like a no brainer for a stage.

Wonder why it hasn't happened yet.

Sakurai tried, but the pieces wouldn't fall into place.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I can see a lot done for an SMT rep to make them separate from Joker. They'd of course have demon summoning as a main mechanic, it could be like Hero's down-b where selecting the demon's icon will have it appear for a second to perform an attack. I also mentioned this in the SMT thread, but an alignment meter where maybe certain player movements or attacks can fill up a gauge and unlock powerful Lawful/Chaos demons for summoning would be neat.

Ngl a fighter whose morality gets defined as you fight sounds super awesome and just up my alley from a design standpoint

 

[Arcadenik]

One cannot have Team Rocket in Smash without . He's still on their team to this day! I feel like I'd also be remiss not to bring up , since it's also a staple that James gets a Pokemon that bites his head every few regions. Poor James

Edit: Actually, just the three you listed would work well if we're strictly basing Team Rocket on the games. I just tend to think of their anime counterparts first and foremost, for obvious reasons

Yes! Yes! Exactly! I am strictly basing Team Rocket on the games. This is such a good loophole around the “no anime” rule!

Team Rocket originated in video games. Jessie and James originated in the anime. If it is okay for Cloud (a video game character) to have an alternate costume from an anime... then surely it would also be okay for Team Rocket (a video game character) to have a default costume from an anime, right? Oh, and do I need to remind you that Greninja’s Final Smash originated in the anime (Ash-Greninja)?

I mean, come on! This is a no-brainer! Yeah, people would probably be glad about Team Rocket Grunts or Giovanni getting in Smash... but they would definitely get hyped about Jessie and James in Smash. I saw this again and again on social media when Jessie and James got in Let’s Go, Masters, and GO.

About the gameplay...

Yeah, I know most people tend to gravitate toward bipedal Pokémon like Rillaboom, Cinderace, and Intelleon... but imagine how a Meowth/Ekans team and a Meowth/Koffing team could be like in Smash! When you select Team Rocket, you are playing as Meowth while Ekans and Koffing take turns as Meowth’s tag team partner... like a mix of Pokémon Trainer and Ice Climbers (or Rosalina or Duck Hunt, you get the idea).

I had this idea before Min Min got in Smash... I had this idea where Meowth would use normal moves (A button) and Ekans/Koffing would use special moves (B button)... but after seeing Min Min in Smash, I think this could be feasible for Team Rocket... one button controls Meowth and the other button controls Ekans/Koffing.

Meowth/Ekans team and Meowth/Koffing team would likely play very differently. With Ekans, you would have constricting, poison stings (like Min Min’s dragon arm), swallowing & spitting (like Wario), paralyzing glares (like Mewtwo), long distance bites (like Piranha Plant), and tether recovery. With Koffing, you would have multiple jumps (like Jigglypuff), smoke screens, poison clouds (like Piranha Plant), Self-Destruction (imagine Jigglypuff’s Rest as a projectile), and sludge all over the ground (like Inkling). Meowth, of course, would do all the scratching, biting, and coin throwing... and he becomes Gigantamax Meowth for his Final Smash.

 

[WaddleKing]

Wobbuffet has actually been featured in plenty of Pokemon material associated with Team Rocket, such as in the TCG, some spin offs, promotional materials etc https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Jessie's_Wobbuffet#In_the_games (this doesn't list all of them ofc).
I'd say Arbok, Weezing and Wobbuffet are the best choices overall to support Meowth in a moveset.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Here's an idea then. The last character you played as is playable, and their homestage is the last stage you played, who is it? For me, it'd be Rouge the Bat and her homestage is Security Hall from SA2. Not the Sonic character I hoped for tbh

I literally just finished the campaign of Halo CE an hour ago so we're getting Chief with the Pillar of Autumn as a stage. You picked the best time to ask your question.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Having followed the coverage of the leaked Nintendo prototypes/early builds/scrapped titles, is it too much to ask for grandpa Yoshi as an echo fighter?

Incidentally, its both hilarious and sad that this has been some of the most interesting (or notable) Nintendo news in a while.

 

[ShrimpScampi]

I was watching the Min Min presentation again and was thinking about Sakurai's comments about spirit battles changing. He mentioned that more spirit battles would be altered depending on whether you own certain DLC, like Cuphead or Ninjara. That said, the Min Min battle remained unchanged after her challenger pack was released (it's still against Corrin and doesn't use any of the ARMS content), and instead she got an additional fighter spirit. So while we certainly can get more Spirit promotions, if Min Min is anything to go off of, promoting a spirit to a playable character doesn't actually alter the original spirit fight, meaning Sakurai's comments in the last presentation are likely referring to changes due to Mii costumes.

So far, we've had base game spirits be changed due to a new Mii costume (Ninjara) as well as instances where a new Mii costume is released first and then a Spirit event is released that matches it (Cuphead). What do you all think we could get in terms of future alterations to spirit battles? Right now the only Sm4sh costume that hasn't returned and is also a spirit is Geno, but we could also get a completely new costume that's also a spirit (maybe to coincide with a fighter from the same series) or something like Cuphead with a matching costume and spirit event.

(It's very possible this was already discussed back when the Min Min presentation was dropped, but I was thinking about it now and wanted to bring it up)

 

[SneakyLink]

I was watching the Min Min presentation again and was thinking about Sakurai's comments about spirit battles changing. He mentioned that more spirit battles would be altered depending on whether you own certain DLC, like Cuphead or Ninjara. That said, the Min Min battle remained unchanged after her challenger pack was released (it's still against Corrin and doesn't use any of the ARMS content), and instead she got an additional fighter spirit. So while we certainly can get more Spirit promotions, if Min Min is anything to go off of, promoting a spirit to a playable character doesn't actually alter the original spirit fight, meaning Sakurai's comments in the last presentation are likely referring to changes due to Mii costumes.

So far, we've had base game spirits be changed due to a new Mii costume (Ninjara) as well as instances where a new Mii costume is released first and then a Spirit event is released that matches it (Cuphead). What do you all think we could get in terms of future alterations to spirit battles? Right now the only Sm4sh costume that hasn't returned and is also a spirit is Geno, but we could also get a completely new costume that's also a spirit (maybe to coincide with a fighter from the same series) or something like Cuphead with a matching costume and spirit event.

(It's very possible this was already discussed back when the Min Min presentation was dropped, but I was thinking about it now and wanted to bring it up)

1. You forgot Ryo Sakazaki, whose battle changed with the update as well to use the corresponding outfit instead of Isaac’s Wig and a Fighter Uniform.
2. In my opinion, if the character already exists as a spirit, they won’t get a second spirit to reflect the costume. A spirit after the costume sure, but only Cuphead has had the honor so far.
3. It’s also possible they only meant DLC spirit fights may change, since those are the only altered battles so far.

 

[ShrimpScampi]

3. It’s also possible they only meant DLC spirit fights may change, since those are the only altered battles so far.

Ah that's right, I thought since Ninjara was a base game spirit that his fight was there from the beginning, but I forgot he was a summon spirit before the ARMS spirit board so he didn't have a fight initially

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Ah that's right, I thought since Ninjara was a base game spirit that his fight was there from the beginning, but I forgot he was a summon spirit before the ARMS spirit board so he didn't have a fight initially

i think i saw him in the first area of WoL. that, or I'm confusing him for Twintelle

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Arthur: So let me get this straight, Dutch. You want me to go to Valentine, and risk my life to rob a man with a sword, an ape, a dog with a duck on its back, and some ***** with green hair? Have you lost your goddamn mind?

Dutch: Have some goddamn faith, Arthur!

LMFAO, I heard both Arthur and Dutch's voice when reading this.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I was watching the Min Min presentation again and was thinking about Sakurai's comments about spirit battles changing. He mentioned that more spirit battles would be altered depending on whether you own certain DLC, like Cuphead or Ninjara. That said, the Min Min battle remained unchanged after her challenger pack was released (it's still against Corrin and doesn't use any of the ARMS content), and instead she got an additional fighter spirit. So while we certainly can get more Spirit promotions, if Min Min is anything to go off of, promoting a spirit to a playable character doesn't actually alter the original spirit fight, meaning Sakurai's comments in the last presentation are likely referring to changes due to Mii costumes.

So far, we've had base game spirits be changed due to a new Mii costume (Ninjara) as well as instances where a new Mii costume is released first and then a Spirit event is released that matches it (Cuphead). What do you all think we could get in terms of future alterations to spirit battles? Right now the only Sm4sh costume that hasn't returned and is also a spirit is Geno, but we could also get a completely new costume that's also a spirit (maybe to coincide with a fighter from the same series) or something like Cuphead with a matching costume and spirit event.

(It's very possible this was already discussed back when the Min Min presentation was dropped, but I was thinking about it now and wanted to bring it up)

We could have the other waves of Mii Costumes affecting base game and DLC Spirits. For now, that would mean Rex, Tails, Knuckles, possibly Hero's Allies (Veronica), Ryo, Nakoruru, Iori and Squid Sisters.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

We could have the other waves of Mii Costumes affecting base game and DLC Spirits. For now, that would mean Rex, Tails, Knuckles, possibly Hero's Allies (Veronica), Ryo, Nakoruru, Iori and Squid Sisters.

if they add Goemon or Heihachi Spirits they could do the costume trick too

 

[Peeton]

What's a character you want purely for their significance to gaming as a whole? Mine is definitely Crash Bandicoot.

Gordon Freeman. That’s it

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I was watching the Min Min presentation again and was thinking about Sakurai's comments about spirit battles changing. He mentioned that more spirit battles would be altered depending on whether you own certain DLC, like Cuphead or Ninjara. That said, the Min Min battle remained unchanged after her challenger pack was released (it's still against Corrin and doesn't use any of the ARMS content), and instead she got an additional fighter spirit. So while we certainly can get more Spirit promotions, if Min Min is anything to go off of, promoting a spirit to a playable character doesn't actually alter the original spirit fight, meaning Sakurai's comments in the last presentation are likely referring to changes due to Mii costumes.

So far, we've had base game spirits be changed due to a new Mii costume (Ninjara) as well as instances where a new Mii costume is released first and then a Spirit event is released that matches it (Cuphead). What do you all think we could get in terms of future alterations to spirit battles? Right now the only Sm4sh costume that hasn't returned and is also a spirit is Geno, but we could also get a completely new costume that's also a spirit (maybe to coincide with a fighter from the same series) or something like Cuphead with a matching costume and spirit event.

(It's very possible this was already discussed back when the Min Min presentation was dropped, but I was thinking about it now and wanted to bring it up)

I expect all base game spirits of promoted fighters to remain the same. Min Min's spirit battle being turned into a vanilla fight with Min Min is... boring.

That said I wouldn't mind updated Spirit fights.

Truth be told, I'd love it.

 

[Calane]

Cause she's the only other character that's in all the games, and MvC already has a Ryu.

Pretty sure Ryu's in every Breath of Fire game too.

Edit: Whoops. I could have sworn your post said "Cause she's the only character that's in all the games", but it seems I somehow read it wrong the first time.

Sorry about that, lol.