Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[RileyXY1]

Another barrier has been broken. Base game Spirits can be put on DLC characters' Spirit Boards.

 

[SirBillyBob]

Hell yes Min Min! **** Spring Man, I can't even express how disappointed I would have been had that sorry excuse of a "protagonist" been the rep.

I like Min Min just as much as the next guy, but don't you think that's a little rude to Springman fans?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I mean, it worked out so well for Chrom he was able to be promoted to an echo fighter. Spring Man couldn't do the same for Min Min, given that her moveset really taps into her unique identity, but any popularity gained may help in the future when being considered either as a completely new playable character or as the Isabelle to Min Min's Villager.

To be honest, I highly doubt even Min Min would make it to the next game so I don't think that Spring Man is ever getting in at this point.

 

[Speed Weed]

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!

View attachment 275686

Sorry, it was too good to pass up!

ok but like this is a legitimately good argument

 

[GoodGrief741]

And it was Min Min all along! Super happy, she's a fantastic character in ARMS, and my favorites were never going to get in so I'm fine with her. I can't tell if her moveset is super intuitive or super complex for me, I really wanna try it out tho. Her Dragon laser looks kinda derpy, but honestly I didn't expect it to be accurate at all because that's hard to translate into a game like Smash. I would have preferred that she have less kicks, take advantage of the extreme uniqueness of the ARMS, but ah well. I will say tho, getting kinda tired of the generic "every character in the game throws a punch" FS, I mean they had so many things they could have gone with, ****ing Hedlok, I know it's an attempt at fanservice but at this point it feels cheap and uninspired.

As for the trailer itself, though, that kinda sucked. I thought doing a repeat of Terry where everyone's trying to grap the envelope was out of the question because of how much of a low-hanging fruit it was, but they went with it. And Spring Man getting beat up, for obvious reasons, also blows. Neat artstyle though.

I will say, I don't like how they keep Chrom-ing characters. They didn't have to show Spring Man getting the invitation and then punched, he didn't have to be looking in through the window all sad-like in the poster, it comes across as mean-spirited to the character and the fans. Honestly though? The whole "there isn't a protagonist" deal makes me think that if we ever get another ARMS character, Spring Man won't be it. Being the protagonist is his biggest claim to fame and that's gone now. Maybe the humiliation will drive his fans to rise in support and get him in, but he'll have to become much more popular than Chrom because an Echo he ain't.

Spirits are on the table! That's a lot of characters that I want, I'm stoked about that. ATs though, and it's with a heavy heart that I say this, but with this I think they're dead in the water. Been fighting the AT fight for over a year now, so I won't bemoan any AT supporter for having hope, but that's where I stand right now.

Also Heihachi's ****ing dead, that's too bad. I honestly thought Callie and Marie already had Mii Costumes, so that was confusing. And apparently the US can't take violent words like Assassin or Fallout? I have too many snarky comments to choose from.

Finally, I want to speak about the highlight of the presentation, with apologies to the Ramen Bomber. Sakurai is the ****ing best. Dude's got a God tier gaming setup, he brought the freaking slinky, and he looked so proud when he brought the Joker amiibo from behind that potted plant. And then he did it again! Amazing, I mean...

unrelated to smash but related to Sakurai

スポッ pic.twitter.com/ywLIDySV3e

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) June 21, 2020

I love this troll, had me thinking he filmed a plane taking off.

This man is a treasure, we don't deserve him.

Overall not my favorite character but maybe my favorite Direct, lots to love there and in these times it's the little things that keep you going.

 

[N3ON]

There are multiple examples of them saying that an Assist Trophy character will not be playable so they kinda were and still are.

The ones that people most like to throw around date back to an age before DLC.

Believe me, if there was a definitive, applicable statement deconfirming them, it would get bandied about all the time, because it'd be a lot more airtight than the common argument of "it can't happen because it hasn't happened".

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Wait, nvm, read that better

 

[Speed Weed]

Hell yes Min Min! **** Spring Man, I can't even express how disappointed I would have been had that sorry excuse of a "protagonist" been the rep.

don't. please don't.

 

[DevaAshera]

Because there’s a better Xenoblade character who is beloved by everyone, the most popular character from their game, is a character that doesn’t have ANY music tracks or stages exclusive to their game, uses a dual wielding sword and gun style, and is a woman of color. That’s right, lads!

As much as I love her, I do think Rex is more likely. It has nothing to do with her quality as a character and more to do with Xenoblade 2 being more successful and thus Rex & Pyra are more well known..primarily due to XBCX being stuck on Wii U, so it really didn't have as many people playing it as it had the potential for had it been on a more successful system like the Switch.
Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is also the newest game in the series (not counting the first game's remake), so its more likely for that reason alone. Outside of Echoes, it seems like Sakurai tends to pick characters from newer games in their respective series.

I won't deny that Elma is a better character than Rex though..Rex was a bit..bland..I'd honestly rather have Pyra alone or Nia..but I know neither of those things are gonna happen.

 

[Goombaic]

Here is Min Min's Spirit Board. pic.twitter.com/RZSYGp7G7e

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) June 22, 2020

They're using base game spirits on the board, something to consider

Spirit events don't seem so damning all of a sudden.

 

[Sysreq]

Whoa there? Are you okay?

Yeah I'm fine, I just have strong feelings towards Spring Man in particular even outside of the context of Smash. I played ARMS and just...bleh.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Anyway I heard something

Joker and hero are being release in fall so around September is the next wave of amiibo

But the catcher is I hear around that time they are doing smash bros Mario, luigi and cloud again as well

 

[Cosmic77]

It doesn't really matter what the fans think about the protagonist "rule". If you ask me, this solidifies it pretty firmly. They chose the character and consider her an equal protagonist to any other character...that being Spring Man, or Master Mummy, or Kid Cobra. There's nuance to the pick, and I will get to that in a bit. Even though it's a Monkey's Paw, Min Min still fits the protagonist rule due to the viewpoint of Mr. Yabuki (ARMS Director) and Sakurai.

No, I definitely think the rule took a hard hit after today.

Even after today, Spring Man is still the mascot of ARMS. That didn't change. Regardless, Sakurai added a character who's promoted far less than Spring Man, meaning that a character isn't guaranteed a apot just because they're the face of their game.

I'll definitely be more open-minded to games like ARMS where you choose your playable character from a roster. It's up to Sakurai and the developers, and they can choose whoever they want if they believe there's a better choice than the mascot.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Wait until the inevitable artwork revolving both Waluigi and Spring Man. Probably waiting for their inclusions in Smash 6.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

comment deleted.

Edit: Double post.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I can't believe the entire ARMS cast barring the DLC characters and Min Min are ****ing dead.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Yeah I'm fine, I just have strong feelings towards Spring Man in particular even outside of the context of Smash. I played ARMS and just...bleh.

Should have kept that thought to yourself though. Its rude to the Spring Man fans who wanted him.

 

[SirBillyBob]

Plus, he's kind of following in Chrom's footsteps for gaining popularity after he got deconfirmed. Similar to how Chrom went from being regarded boring shillpick to a lovable oaf who's always in the wrong place at the wrong time ala Yamcha, people seem to be much more receptive to the idea of Spring Man after his deconfirmation.

I mean, it worked out so well for Chrom he was able to be promoted to an echo fighter. Spring Man couldn't do the same for Min Min, given that her moveset really taps into her unique identity, but any popularity gained may help in the future when being considered either as a completely new playable character or as the Isabelle to Min Min's Villager.

There's also the added bonus that his biggest rival is already in the game now, which takes out a huge disadvantage against him. The only others that could compete are Ribbon Girl who could easily work as an alt or echo, Twintelle, and Ninjara. Maybe Max Brass too, not too sure on him.

 

[Nekoo]

Spirit events don't seem so damning all of a sudden.

Nah, spirit event 100% disconfirm. Even more now that the DLC are going on.
*Cry in RE spirit event and Mana Event.*

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

No, I definitely think the rule took a hard hit after today.

Even after today, Spring Man is still the mascot of ARMS. That didn't change. Regardless, Sakurai added a character who's promoted far less than Spring Man, meaning that a character isn't guaranteed a apot just because they're the face of their game.

I'll definitely be more open-minded to games like ARMS where you choose your playable character from a roster. It's up to Sakurai and the developers, and they can choose whoever they want if they believe there's a better choice than the mascot.

To be fair, the concept was never "Mascot and protagonist" it was "mascot OR protagonist".

You can believe what you like, but you're going against what Mr. Sakurai AND Mr. Yabuki consider with ARMS.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Every character's theme being here is awesome, honestly.

One thing: Min Min's Spirit promotion makes me think a Xenoblade character has become hella likely now - whether it's Melia, Seven or Rex.

Coughs in Elma

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The ones that people most like to throw around date back to an age before DLC.

And they've held true even with DLC. The fact that they specifically didn't pick Spring Man reinforces this, and I wouldn't be surprised if it still holds true.

So unless Waluigi gets in, they disconfirmed.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Very interesting....

It's wrong on the release date though.

 

[slrigeigdew]

Not sure if anyone else has brought this up yet but I cannot tell you how glad I am that they didn't put this image of Sakurai up in the announcement of the direct a couple of days back. I don't think I could have survived 3 days of Finger theory 2.0

 

[-crump-]

After they revealed the Vault Boy costume I was thinking “What the hell? No extra music track?” Then I remembered that almost all of the music from Fallout is from the 50’s and not traditional video game music.

Anyway Min Min looks really cool, I had a dumb grin on my face the whole reveal trailer. I wanted Spring Man to free the Assists, but as far as the characters themselves go I MUCH prefer who we got.

 

[SirBillyBob]

I'd also like to touch up on the fact that Min Min's spirit board features old characters. This means that they can recycle content and not necessarily have to use lesser known characters to create a board. Potentially a plus for franchises like Pokemon and RE.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Well, I just got a chance to see the reveal. Congratulations to the Min Min fans!

I've gotta say, I was really hoping for Springo since I'm one of the (evidently three or so) people who do like him. Like GoodGrief741 said, it really sucks to see a character get made a joke of, especially one you like - I wanted Chrom in Smash mostly because of what happened in Lucina's trailer last round, so that wasn't really fun to see again.

But looks like my most wanted is also just a dream now. I always thought Vault Boy would be a great Mii costume, but I don't see a reason to bring him out now unless there's not a Bethesda character in the pipeline. Altaïr felt like a death blow for other Ubisoft characters, and this one is no different.

 

[Rikarte]

Just a random thought: while I doubt this was a reason Min Min was selected, I wonder if having a character with very obvious Chinese inspirations will increase her popularity in China. Or I guess, translate to more sales (of Smash, FP2, or Min Min herself)

Did Smash even release in China/is planned to release there? I thought they had issues with games featuring user made content.

Every character's theme being here is awesome, honestly.

One thing: Min Min's Spirit promotion makes me think a Xenoblade character has become hella likely now - whether it's Melia, Seven or Rex.

Regardless of who it is, I hope they bring Xenoblade X music. Might be in the minority here but this has always been my favorite soundtrack of the three.


Also what's everyone's opinion on CacoMallow now? Seen people say it's all but confirmed due to Vault Boy Mii but honestly... I don't see it? To me, it seems even deader than dead. lol

 

[Garteam]

To be honest, I highly doubt even Min Min would make it to the next game so I don't think that Spring Man is ever getting in at this point.

I don't see why Min Min would be cut in the next Smash game unless Nintendo's going to really scale the roster back. Nintendo really likes ARMS, they gave it post-launch support for two years and they're continuing to give it exposure even now. Likewise, the game sold over 2 million copies, that's very good for a new IP and basically guarantees a sequel sometime down the road. It's not going to be a new A-lister like Splatoon, but it's likely going to stick around as an upper B-tier franchise. That basically guarantees Min Min's inclusion and more than justifies a second character, especially if they use some of Min Min's mechanics as a base to build this new fighter.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

After they revealed the Vault Boy costume I was thinking “What the hell? No extra music track?” Then I remembered that almost all of the music from Fallout is from the 50’s and not traditional video game music.

Anyway Min Min looks really cool, I had a dumb grin on my face the whole reveal trailer. I wanted Spring Man to free the Assists, but as far as the characters themselves go I MUCH prefer who we got.

Yeah there would have been copyright to deal with

they could have used the not copyrighted original composed music tho, granted

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'll be back later. Going to play and walk my dogs, maybe take them down to the creek again. Hopefully this place will settle down when I come back.

 

[N3ON]

It's the same principle behind why spirit events are likely deconfirmations as to why there weren't any upgrades within the first pass: it's because the characters and the supporting content are planned concurrently, so overlap would be superfluous. Pass 1 was planned before launch, so the base and DLC could be shaped around each other. The spirit events of the last year have been made with the characters of Pass 2 already locked in, so again, they get shaped around each other, making overlap very unlikely.

 

[Arcanir]

Man, Min Min looks like a lot of fun, but I'm terrified to face her. I main Ridley and use other heavyweights like K. Rool and all of them could struggle with her reach depending on how she can stuff their approaches. I'm definitely going to have to get some practice with her, both using and fighting against her.

As for the Mii Costumes, Heihachi being confirmed here definitely sucks. I know that after seeing his costume dodge the axe with the last FP it seemed like he had a good chance, and Min Min adapting a limb moveset seemed to be the ticket, but then it just didn't pan out. As for Vault Boy, he's a cool choice, though I'm surprised they didn't give him a new track after the unique set-up for his reveal.

My line of thinking was that if they were decided before the second pass's roster, then they're safe. If not then...they're not.

I feel this will be the biggest sticking point for the DLC spirits. We know they released after the pass was decided, but we don't know if they were chosen after the pass was decided. That distinction can mean the difference between the characters being dismissed early on and thus potential options for reconsideration, or being dismissed later and potentially options they didn't want to go forward with for FP2.

I personally lean more on the latter though since Spirits like Resident Evil and Ring Fit Adventure came months after the decision around June.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

There are multiple examples of them saying that an Assist Trophy character will not be playable so they kinda were and still are.

LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN DENIAL!

And there were examples of Sakurai saying Ridley won't be playable too and that kind of went in the toilet.

I definitely know that Ridley’s a much-anticipated name for fans, but if we made Ridley as a fighter, it wouldn’t be Ridley any longer...it’d have to be shrunk down, or its wings reduced in size, or be unable to fly around freely.​

Providing accurate portrayals of characters is something I want to pay ample attention to...if I don’t stick to that thought, then we’d have to lower the quality or break the balance of the game. Something that goes way off spec could break the entire game.​

These two arguments don’t hold the same merit. Ridley was never an Assist Trophy. He was just a highly requested character. He eventually got in due to fan demand. It was also a new installment in the series that finally made him playable.

We only seen Assist Trophy promotions in sequel titles. There’s always next time.

But as of yet, there have been no Assist promotions within the same game. It’s not impossible. They can handle the game however they want, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Did Smash even release in China/is planned to release there? I thought they had issues with games featuring user made content.

Regardless of who it is, I hope they bring Xenoblade X music. Might be in the minority here but this has always been my favorite soundtrack of the three.


Also what's everyone's opinion on CacoMallow now? Seen people say it's all but confirmed due to Vault Boy Mii but honestly... I don't see it? To me, it seems even deader than dead. lol

Mega dead. At this point you’d be implying they’d be bundled with FP7. NO WAY were they worked on THAT FAR in advance.

probably all Bethesda could pull off with Smash negotiations was the Vault Boy costume

 

[Cosmic77]

To be fair, the concept was never "Mascot and protagonist" it was "mascot OR protagonist".

You can believe what you like, but you're going against what Mr. Sakurai AND Mr. Yabuki consider with ARMS.

Your logic a few days ago was that it HAD to be Spring Man because every character added to date has been either the protagonist or the mascot. I made the same assumption.

Every ARMS character can be a protagonist in the Grand Prix, just like every Smash character can be a protagonist thanks to Classic. That being said, not all ARMS charactera are equal. There's definitely an ARMS mascot, and it's not Min Min. Spring Man and Ribbon Girl recieve a notably larger amount of promotion than the other ARMS characters, which should've given them a leg up on the others. That didn't pan out though, and we ended up getting a character who was promoted less than the mascot.

You're entitled to believe what you want as well, but it feels like you're adamant about keeping this rule intact, even though it's pretty obvious that them not choosing Spring Man was intended to be a huge shock. They actually illustrated this in Min Min's newcomer poster by having an upset Spring Man look through the window.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

After they revealed the Vault Boy costume I was thinking “What the hell? No extra music track?” Then I remembered that almost all of the music from Fallout is from the 50’s and not traditional video game music

Rip the chance of having Butcher Pete in smash

 

[Mr. Robotto]

I'm super excited for Min Min! She was my most wanted along with Max Brass, so I'm very happy! Her playstyle is very unorthodox and I know I'll have fun learning how to play as her! I'm very glad the stage looks well-made, and 18 songs! Including Sky Arena and [NAME REDACTED]? A remix for Ramen Bowl? Let's Go!

I'm a bit sad for Heihachi, he's definitely one of those characters that deserved to be in Smash, but hey, what can you do about it. Min Min's moveset looked perfect for him as well! But alas... Namco still seems to get the short end of the stick.

Even within the presentation... RIP Pac-Man.

 

[Himiko]

I'm satisfied, Min Min was my most desired character from an ARMS rep. FINALLY, FOR ONCE, someone like me can be excited for a new dlc character. Now I don't have to rant about a lack of female dlc characters even though the ratio is still skewed as hell.

 

[Curious Villager]

Welp, guess that's a thing...