Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Perkilator]

I made a tier list of what characters I want and don’t want.

(The bottom is meant to say “no”.)
Template: https://tiermaker.com/create/smash-bros-ultimate-fighter-pass-vol2-360980

 

[MagnesD3]

Western Pass

Master Chief (Halo) - Xbox Mascot, has good Nintendo relationship, biggest FPS mascot, crazy iconic/popular
Spyro (Spyro the Dragon) - iconic 90’s playstion 3d platformer mascot, second only to crash
Crash (Crash Bandioot) - iconic 90’s PlayStation 3d platformer mascot, called out Mario in commercials, is very popular
Rayman (Rayman) - the platforming icon of Ubisoft, ubisoft has a great relationship with Nintendo
Scorpion (Mortal Kombat) - iconic fighting game of the snes era
Lara Croft (Tomb Raider) - very iconic game character in general, used to be 90’s playstation mascot.

Those are probably who I’d choose even though I don’t care for Scorpion or Lara Croft.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

You know, I just realized something:

We got the Cuphead costume in January, and then there was a Cuphead Spirit event about two weeks later. But even with the Sans costume, we never got an Undertale Spirit event.

Can you imagine if they did the same things as the Cuphead event, where the Spirit battle as against the Mii costume if you had it but a character otherwise? Imagine how the fanbase would react if Ness ended up representing the battle for those who didn't have the costume.

 

[Will]

I made a tier list of what characters I want and don’t want.View attachment 271008
(The bottom is meant to say “no”.)
Template: https://tiermaker.com/create/smash-bros-ultimate-fighter-pass-vol2-360980

it took me fifteen years to try and figure out who sylux was because i forgot he was even relevant back in late 2018 speculation as DLC because we didn't know how bad MP4 development was yet

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If an indie dev team can get Lara Croft then so can Nintendo. PSABR couldn't get Cloud and were denied Lara due to the reboot shenanigans, Smash already has the top 2 most popular SE properties, why would the next one on their list be so much harder?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I made a tier list of what characters I want and don’t want.
(The bottom is meant to say “no”.)
Template: https://tiermaker.com/create/smash-bros-ultimate-fighter-pass-vol2-360980

I don't think I've seen Suzie as a request before. I don't care much for her but really, I'd take any of the playable Kirby Star Allies characters. Even Meta Knight and King Dedede 'cuz it would mean they get their more fun (at least in my opinion) movesets. Not Kirby though. Kirby's fine as is.

Gooey as an Echo Fighter of Kirby huh...I can kinda see it, though it may not work due to the fact that Gooey doesn't have any limbs; all of its animations would have to be completely redone.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

At least they’re licensing content for Smash. I guess they avoid PSABR because it’s an unproven project and they really have nothing to gain from it. I’m sure Sakurai would be able to get Tomb Raider content just fine. Probably more stuff than FF, for sure.

https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013...-battle-royale-if-its-release-date-was-later/

Actually, they wanted Lara Croft to appear in her new "design" first in their own game. PSASBR came out too fast.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I made a tier list of what characters I want and don’t want.View attachment 271008
(The bottom is meant to say “no”.)
Template: https://tiermaker.com/create/smash-bros-ultimate-fighter-pass-vol2-360980

How come making Shadow playable wouldn't be wasting all those decades perfecting the AT's ability to just be the timer item with Shadow in the background and require them to reprogram the whole game?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

How come making Shadow playable wouldn't be wasting all those decades perfecting the AT's ability to just be the timer item with Shadow in the background and require them to reprogram the whole game?

?

Making Shadow wouldn't waste anything. You wouldn't even have to remove the Assist Trophy, just make it not appear when Shadow is already on the field. Doing so wouldn't require a rewrite of the whole game either; You'd just make a new check to make sure none of the players are Shadow, and if true, leave the probability alone, if false, change it to zero so it can't appear (or something of the sort). We know both parts of the code necessary is possible due to Pictochat 2 and Assist Trophies not appearing on certain stages, so I don't see why this would be an issue.

 

[Guynamednelson]

?

Making Shadow wouldn't waste anything. You wouldn't even have to remove the Assist Trophy, just make it not appear when Shadow is already on the field. Doing so wouldn't require a rewrite of the whole game either; You'd just make a new check to make sure none of the players are Shadow, and if true, leave the probability alone, if false, change it to zero so it can't appear (or something of the sort). We know both parts of the code necessary is possible due to Pictochat 2 and Assist Trophies not appearing on certain stages, so I don't see why this would be an issue.

It's a joke based on Perkilator's arguments on why AT promotions can't happen while still campaigning for Shadow. Why would you think I would seriously think they spent decades on one AT?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's a joke based on Perkilator's arguments on why AT promotions can't happen while still campaigning for Shadow. Why would you think I would seriously think they spent decades on one AT?

Ah. I sensed heavy sarcasm but I wasn't sure what the angle was.

 

[Perkilator]

How come making Shadow playable wouldn't be wasting all those decades perfecting the AT's ability to just be the timer item with Shadow in the background and require them to reprogram the whole game?

Uh, what? I wasn’t speaking about DLC, in this case. Let’s not derail the thread, though.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

The Portal talk yesterday got me thinking of how a character from that game would be implemented, and I think I've got an idea. My character pick is Chell. She may not be the most notable of Portal's cast, but I think she'd at least be recognizable, and she's also the one with the Portal Gun. Here's what I think her specials would be:

Spoiler: Kinda long

• Neutral Special: Portal Gun
  • Chell raises her Portal Gun. Holding the button allows you to aim 360°. When the button is released, Chell will fire a portal in that direction. Unlike in Portal, the portal can open in mid air, but if the projectile hits a surface (including the underside of a semi-solid platform) then it will automatically create a portal along that surface if possible (if not, a portal will form after traveling a set distance). Portals cannot clip through terrain nor can they be placed on top of, or too close to each other. Any player, projectile, or item that goes into a portal, will come out the other (or only exposed) side of the other portal with a slightly higher velocity. Since the player can't control which type of portal they're creating, the portal's color is determined by which one is older, and would be replaced by a new portal. The cool colored portal is always the newest and the warm colored one is always the oldest.
• Side Special: Deploy Turret
  • Chell presses a button that causes a Sentry Turret to appear from an device on the ground. If any damagable object (any player, or items like bombs and the Sandbag) stands in front of it, it will open fire. The bullets deal damage, but very low knockback, and it is easy to fall out of the turret's fire. When all characters move out of sight, the Sentry Turret will look for damagable objects, increasing it's line of sight for a second or two. The turret is considered to be a large item, and can be picked up. If you do so, the turret will open fire. If you throw the turret it start flailing around, firing everywhere until it deactivates, and disappears after about a second of being on the ground. The same effect can be achieved with a light attack (though this is much more dangerous to you), and the turret can be destroyed outright by a moderately powerful attack.
• Up Special: Aerial Faith Plate
  • A panel containing an Aerial Faith Plate appears under Chell, and launches her upward in the direction she was facing. There is no hitbox on this attack.
• Down Special: Deploy Cube
  • Chell presses a button that causes a Weighted Storage Cube to appear from a device on the ground. The move can also summon a Contraption Cube, Discouragement Redirection Cube, or Weighted Companion Cube to varying degrees of rarity. All of these cubes function the same way, however. They are very similar to crates, but they are indestructible to attacks. Instead they have physics based movement when thrown, or attacked, and will harm any players it crashes into.

The idea is that you are creating a bunch of hazards that both you and your opponent have to deal with, and you must outsmart your opponent using these items, and the Portal Gun. Chell does have the advantage though, as the items are spawned right next to her, and she has the unique ability to pick up heavy items without impeding movement since the Portal Gun does it for her.

Interesting moveset. I'd rather if the portal did not open mid air but I do like this moveset. I just can't help but wonder how Chell would fight normally though. Like what would her normal attacks be like? I mean I could imagine the Portal's object grab being used for grabs but that's about it.

I made a tier list of what characters I want and don’t want.View attachment 271008
(The bottom is meant to say “no”.)
Template: https://tiermaker.com/create/smash-bros-ultimate-fighter-pass-vol2-360980

Yeah I'm game for this, here's my tier list based on how I would react to the character showing up at my doorstep telling me they became a playable character in Smash Bros.

Spoiler: Big image

 

[Zero Suit Violet]

Alrighty ! Made my own Tier List of Wants using the Template !

I know I have some unpopular Least Wanteds, so you're open to completly ignore that section if you want, least wanteds aren't really characters that I "hate" or whatever, I wouldn't be mean to a fan, or cry if they got in, just that personally I would be completly uninterested

That being said, I listed off all my Most Wanteds, Characters I like, characters I'm okay with, and characters I like less out of that list !

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

You know what's weird? Eventually someone is gonna come up and say the exact opposite and say that everything is "situational" and that Square wasn't stingy. It's always been like this, back-and-forth, at least every time I try to make the stingy Square haha 2 final fantasy song joke I'm getting blasted up the ass with comments like that.

Wonder what's making people think the other way around.

Everybody always talks about music and **** but NO ONE talks about how Cloud lacks spirit atwork (or any spirits at all outside of the Fighter one)

I can understand no Amano Artwork as spirits (i think he's a freelancer), but Nomura? He designed Cloud's poster in Smash 4, and had an interview with Sakurai regarding Cloud's reveal, and yet his inconic artwork is not even in Smash Ultimate's Spirit list? I mean from what i have seen, NOTHING implies that he's hard to work with compared to the likes of the composers, and the fact that Toriyama's DQ artwork is in Smash's spirit list puzzles me more (and now we have Mana spirits too).

 

[Dark Bagel]

BEEG BRAIN TIER LIST (WARNING: TRUTH)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Interesting moveset. I'd rather if the portal did not open mid air but I do like this moveset. I just can't help but wonder how Chell would fight normally though. Like what would her normal attacks be like? I mean I could imagine the Portal's object grab being used for grabs but that's about it.

I had the portals open in midair since less complex stages like Final Destination and King of Fighters Stadium wouldn't give you much to work with. Though it might be better that way since it would mean which side of the portal you pop out of would always make sense, and even if you only have access to the sides and top of the main platform, it is still free stage control that only goes away when you say so.

EDIT: The issues come with more than two players, since most stages would only allow about four of them on the main platform, meaning that a few players could control all the portals. Though I suppose 8-Player Smash with everyone as Chell would be pretty silly no matter how you implemented the portals.

As far as her normal attacks go, I think they'd probably be underwhelming punches and kicks. Like how Hero's focus is on his spells, Chell's focus would be on her portals and items. Grabbing with the Portal Gun is also a neat idea.

 

[7NATOR]

I'm bored so i want to ask you guys something else

Could Geno theoretically work as a Mii Gunner Semi-Clone? Geno has unique specials like the Cannon transformation and Geno Beam, and he's Faster in his home game than Mii Gunner, but alot of Mii Gunner's Normals use a Gunner arm.

Sakurai was talking about how cool Geno would be with his Gun arm back in brawl, but since Mii Gunner uses that for alot of his normals, would it be a Smooth Transition in terms of normals, thereby making Geno a Semi-Clone though with a Different Set of Specials

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yeah I'm game for this, here's my tier list based on how I would react to the character showing up at my doorstep telling me they became a playable character in Smash Bros.

Spoiler: Big image

View attachment 271010

NO!!! You are not to give Crash alcohol under any circumstances!

Also that's Rundaas (Rundass?), a cryokinetic Metroid character.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm bored so i want to ask you guys something else

Could Geno theoretically work as a Mii Gunner Semi-Clone? Geno has unique specials like the Cannon transformation and Geno Beam, and he's Faster in his home game than Mii Gunner, but alot of Mii Gunner's Normals use a Gunner arm.

Sakurai was talking about how cool Geno would be with his Gun arm back in brawl, but since Mii Gunner uses that for alot of his normals, would it be a Smooth Transition in terms of normals, thereby making Geno a Semi-Clone though with a Different Set of Specials

If Ingame speed meant anything Ike would be the best character in the game due to his infamously broken stats and growths

 

[7NATOR]

If Ingame speed meant anything Ike would be the best character in the game due to his infamously broken stats and growths

True true, so i guess it would be easier transition

In all honesty, if they are gonna start doing more of these Premium Costumes they should add more Specials to the Mii's inspired by other characters. Would Make Mii Costumes even more hype and give more creativty, but then again could be a balaning Nightmare

In anycase, I could see Geno being a Semi-Clone of Mii gunner, and i think if they did bonus fighters they want to do fighters that can re-use Assets alot, like Geno, Shadow, Dixie, Rex, Waluigi

 

[Garteam]

I'm not a huge fan of the "This character is the next biggest franchise in the company after what we've already gotten, therefore they're next" argument, simply because that's not how Smash has traditionally done things.

• Konami is one of the two companies to follow this pattern (provided you don't count Pro Evolution Soccer, as in that case their biggest franchise still isn't playable in Smash), as they had Metal Gear first and Castlevania second. However, we don't know how much Kojima personally pushing for Snake influenced this. Likewise, the inclusion of the Bomberman franchise (tied for their seventh biggest) in a supporting role does break this trend slightly.
• Sega led off with their biggest star, Sonic, but followed it with a franchise that's not even in their top 12 (Bayonetta) and their 7th biggest franchise (Persona) respectively.
• Capcom is arguably the strongest case of a company's characters in Smash not following their sales charts. Mega Man, their fourth biggest franchise, was the first Capcom series in Smash and the first to get a playable character . Then their third biggest franchise, Street Fighter, was next to get a playable rep. By comparison, Resident Evil and Monster Hunter, their first and second largest franchises respectively, only got a spirit event and boss respectively.
• Namco did get their highest grossing franchise, PAC-Man, in first, but their best selling franchise, Tekken, is largely MIA.
• Square Enix are with Konami in the "franchise size impacts order" camp with Final Fantasy first and Dragon Quest second. However, if you count spirits, Square Enix did skip down a bit by giving Mana, their fifth biggest franchise, priority over Tomb Raider and Kingdom Hearts.
• Insert "Microsoft wouldn't want Banjo-Kazooie, they'd want Minecraft or Halo" joke here.
• Admittedly, I couldn't find anything on SNK's sales per franchise, but I'd be very surprised if Fatal Fury was largely than KoF, Samurai Showdown, or possibly even Metal Slug.

 

[SneakyLink]

• Admittedly, I couldn't find anything on SNK's sales per franchise, but I'd be very surprised if Fatal Fury was largely than KoF, Samurai Showdown, or possibly even Metal Slug.

Also Fatal Fury as a franchise hasn't had a new game since 1999 (Garou Mark of Wolves). That said, I consider KoF to be SNK's flagship and Fatal Fury characters star in that series.

Also unrelated, Tekken does have content in Smash Ultimate:

Spoiler

Outside this lil cameo, Tekken is MIA. Either the Heihachi Mii costume is planned to return, or something else is going on behind the scenes.

Edit: Image Machine broke, have link instead.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Here's my tier list. It's mostly in order, with the top left character being the most liked (or least hated) character in the tier:

Spoiler: Image

And now you guys all know how weird my tastes are. lol
EDIT: To clarify, the want tier is characters I'm predisposed to like, but don't passionately want.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I'm bored so i want to ask you guys something else

Could Geno theoretically work as a Mii Gunner Semi-Clone? Geno has unique specials like the Cannon transformation and Geno Beam, and he's Faster in his home game than Mii Gunner, but alot of Mii Gunner's Normals use a Gunner arm.

Sakurai was talking about how cool Geno would be with his Gun arm back in brawl, but since Mii Gunner uses that for alot of his normals, would it be a Smooth Transition in terms of normals, thereby making Geno a Semi-Clone though with a Different Set of Specials

If he was to be a Semi-clone, he would have different animations to Mii Gunner and different effects or properties to his attacks but their attacks would function the same way like Ness/Lucas' Pk Thunder and Fox/Falco's blasters.

This would mean that Geno would have to have his own variation of the Charge Blast, Flame Pillar, Lunar Launch and Echo Reflector which at that point, it wouldn't be what Geno would do so no, I don't think Geno would work as a semi clone of Mii Gunner. Geno does much more than just shoot from his hand cannon unlike Mii Gunner.

Also that's Rundaas (Rundass?), a cryokinetic Metroid character.

Looks more like Halo's legendary difficulty than a character.

Here's my tier list. It's mostly in order, with the top left character being the most liked (or least hated) character in the tier:

Spoiler: Image

View attachment 271015

And now you guys all know how weird my tastes are. lol

You have stained my eyes with your lack of knowledge of Coach, Claude, Franklin Clinton, Gillius, Mike Jones and Michael (Townley) De Santa in that order. No idea who the Chicken guys name is but I'm pretty sure he's from Hotline Miami.

 

[KillerCage]

Also that's Rundaas (Rundass?), a cryokinetic Metroid character

Spoiler: MP3C Spoilers

WHY DID WE HAVE TO KILL HIM!?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I could see Geno maybe use Mii Gunner to help create him, but this feels more like using Mario to create Ness as a situation. Or if you will, Ike to create Cloud. It's a good base, but a semi-clone he wouldn't be. Well, unless you consider Ness a semi-clone, anyway. >.>

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

You have stained my eyes with your lack of knowledge of Coach, Claude, Franklin Clinton, Gillius, Mike Jones and Michael (Townley) De Santa in that order. No idea who the Chicken guys name is but I'm pretty sure he's from Hotline Miami.

I had a rough idea of who Gillius was, but I couldn't name him or the series he comes from (I think it's the one where you have three vikings; one with a shield, one with an axe, and one that can jump). Gillius goes in "Meh" tier.

As for Mike Jones, I know of him and Startropics, I just didn't recognize him in this photo. Mike Jones goes in "Would be Into It" tier.

EDIT: Also, the GTA characters go with the other GTA characters, and the rest stay unranked because I know literally nothing about their series.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

These tier makers always choose like the worst artwork or renders to represent a character lol

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Sakurai's Pic of the Day.

pic.twitter.com/xCfXjyi6Kn

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) May 5, 2020

They're adding another one boiz, get ready.

 

[Will]

Here's my tier list. It's mostly in order, with the top left character being the most liked (or least hated) character in the tier:

Spoiler: Image

View attachment 271015

And now you guys all know how weird my tastes are. lol
EDIT: To clarify, the want tier is characters I'm predisposed to like, but don't passionately want.

I think the only character I will vehemently never want in the game is FNAF. And people wanting him is such a foreign concept to me, like really? You got all this to choose from and you said "I'll take Chuck E. Cheese's brother" or "The guy who pays Game Theory's rent". This isn't a rip on people who want him or anything, want what you want, but it's so weird.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I had a rough idea of who Gillius was, but I couldn't name him or the series he comes from (I think it's the one where you have three vikings; one with a shield, one with an axe, and one that can jump).

Oh hell yeah The Lost Vikings? I love that game. No idea how they could work though but it'd be a lot of fun to think about. They probably would have to work like the Pokemon Trainer though and all three would have to be on the stage... and two of them won't be moving... and they can be hit... and KO'd...

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Sakurai's Pic of the Day.

They're adding another one boiz, get ready.

I got the popcorn ready. Now I'm just waiting for the salt to arrive.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

I'm not a huge fan of the "This character is the next biggest franchise in the company after what we've already gotten, therefore they're next" argument, simply because that's not how Smash has traditionally done things.

• Konami is one of the two companies to follow this pattern (provided you don't count Pro Evolution Soccer, as in that case their biggest franchise still isn't playable in Smash), as they had Metal Gear first and Castlevania second. However, we don't know how much Kojima personally pushing for Snake influenced this. Likewise, the inclusion of the Bomberman franchise (tied for their seventh biggest) in a supporting role does break this trend slightly.
• Sega led off with their biggest star, Sonic, but followed it with a franchise that's not even in their top 12 (Bayonetta) and their 7th biggest franchise (Persona) respectively.
• Capcom is arguably the strongest case of a company's characters in Smash not following their sales charts. Mega Man, their fourth biggest franchise, was the first Capcom series in Smash and the first to get a playable character . Then their third biggest franchise, Street Fighter, was next to get a playable rep. By comparison, Resident Evil and Monster Hunter, their first and second largest franchises respectively, only got a spirit event and boss respectively.
• Namco did get their highest grossing franchise, PAC-Man, in first, but their best selling franchise, Tekken, is largely MIA.
• Square Enix are with Konami in the "franchise size impacts order" camp with Final Fantasy first and Dragon Quest second. However, if you count spirits, Square Enix did skip down a bit by giving Mana, their fifth biggest franchise, priority over Tomb Raider and Kingdom Hearts.
• Insert "Microsoft wouldn't want Banjo-Kazooie, they'd want Minecraft or Halo" joke here.
• Admittedly, I couldn't find anything on SNK's sales per franchise, but I'd be very surprised if Fatal Fury was largely than KoF, Samurai Showdown, or possibly even Metal Slug.

Actually, Castlevania isn't their 3rd best selling series, it's the fourth.

Power Pros Just barely manages to sell better than Castlevania with 22.7 Million compared to CV's 20 Million.

It surprises me people are still arguing about Sales and **** in the game where Bayonetta got before Kiryu, Arle and all the rest and Banjo managed to be playable while Steve is still MiA. Did people really ignore what Sakurai said in Terry's video?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think the only character I will vehemently never want in the game is FNAF. And people wanting him is such a foreign concept to me, like really? You got all this to choose from and you said "I'll take Chuck E. Cheese's brother who pays Game Theory's rent"

*shrugs* I like FNaF. I think it's a fun ghost story and the character designs are pretty fun too. It's also a pretty decent gateway into the horror genre for me since it's got a spooky atmosphere, but it's not scary enough for me to have nightmares for months. Though, I was pretty sleepless for at least three days after getting into the franchise (and I wasn't even playing the dang games) which should tell you how easily scared I am.

I also really liked learning about the AI in the more traditional titles 'cuz I'm a game design nerd.

EDIT: Also I like Freddy's design way better than Chuck E.'s.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I love how people are saying Tomb raider being SE's third biggest franchise shouldn't be used as reasoning for her inclusion when it was only brought up to emphasize how much people exaggerate about Square being stingy

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Gillius is from Golden Axe. He one of the three playable characters from it, actually you might say Gillius is the main character since he appears in every game and had an important role in all of them. He even

Spoiler

sacrificed himself in The Revenge of Death Adder to kill Death Adder which you might say is the final game in the main series.

He's made playable appreances in some SEGA crossover games and even a cameo in Shining in the Darkness (A spin-off of Shining Force or maybe the other way around?).

Also he is Saturn-San's true lover!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Gillius is from Golden Axe. He one of the three playable characters from it, actually you might say Gillius is the main character since he appears in every game and had an important role in all of them.

Oh. Still "meh" tier for me, but definitely high "meh" tier since I could see myself being into his inclusion given more information.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I love how people are saying Tomb raider being SE's third biggest franchise shouldn't be used as reasoning for her inclusion when it was only brought up to emphasize how much people exaggerate about Square being stingy

Being the 3rd best selling Square franchise is also the least important part of her legacy. Take into account her world wide popularity as “The Most Recognizable Female Video Game Character” which makes her the Female equivalent of ****ing Mario THEN we can talk about sales.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Being the 3rd best selling Square franchise is also the least important part of her legacy. Take into account her world wide popularity as “The Most Recognizable Female Video Game Character” which makes her the Female equivalent of ****ing Mario THEN we can talk about sales.

Huh, I thought it was Chun-Li...

Still though, she's definitely a huge contender for the third SquareEnix spot. She probably has the edge too since she's not owned by Disney (which...probably means I shouldn't be counting Sora but whatever) and doesn't have Smash fan demand as his only reason for inclusion.

EDIT: Imagine if Kingdom Hearts had more Final Fantasy songs than Final Fantasy...