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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
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Nov 10, 2014
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If you don't mind me asking, which of those do you think "deserve to be nothing more than ATs/Miis/Echoes"? Kinda curious.
Essentially the ones that already are those things(which is most of them.

I'd really only add Captain Toad and Waddle Dude as characters, and Dixie as an echo.

Oh boy you guys this week's Smash Tourney was just announced:


It's time for the Brawl for All!
That looks like the mural from the new SamSho.
1586327964171.png

Kind of out of nowhere, but if I had to throw together a list of my most wanted, it’d look like this in no particular order:
I don't need to throw one together. I keep it handy.

NGL, I legitimately forgot this Pokemon existed. I thought Weavile was his own Pokemon.
Weavile has been a part of my All Dark team for a long time now.

...but only because there's no cooler Ice/Dark Pokemon. Lame-ass icerat...
 
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Koopaul

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 29, 2013
Messages
2,336
I think it's the word you used "deserve". I hate that word when it comes to Smash discussion.

"This character deserves to be a fighter."

"That character doesn't deserve to be a fighter."

It's dumb. Nobody deserves to be anything.
 

Nazyrus

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
2,837
I think it's the word you used "deserve". I hate that word when it comes to Smash discussion.

"This character deserves to be a fighter."

"That character doesn't deserve to be a fighter."

It's dumb. Nobody deserves to be anything.
Agreed, nothing worse from the smash community thant its sense of entitlement about what they like/dislike (on whoever it applies of course, not saying everyone is like that… thank god lol)
 

Knight Dude

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I missed the ballot talk. I was a scumbag and voted for multiple characters, but only once each though. I voted for Simon, Ridley, Dark Samus, Wolf, Mega Man X and Sub-Zero.

:ultridley::ultdarksamus::ultsimon::ultwolf:

All things considered I got some cool characters out of the situation.
 

Diddy Kong

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I guess that means he would be more well received in a sequel to Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze sequel since Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong would definitely be in it. EDIT: And his design will be a bit more appealing since everyone looks better in the new series than the old.

Imagine if they brought back the entire DK Crew with the next game. That'd be cool.
I don't agree everyone looks better in the newer games than before. Diddy and Dixie looked better in their Rare designs I feel. The DK64 renders are probably my favourite looks for DK and Diddy.

Kiddy however could use a bit of a redesign. He should be smaller, around the same size of Diddy and Dixie. Maybe a bit more baby like, but still having brute strength. Not as strong as DK, which totally should be worked with more, but literally as intended, a middle ground version of DK's stenght and Diddy's speed and agility, but not as strong as DK, and not as fast as Diddy.
 

Phoenixio

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Oct 2, 2019
Messages
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Who are some other candidates for a stance mechanic you would be interested in seeing and how would you like to see it implemented?
It's a fairly key part of Travis Touchdown's moves in his No More Heroes games. He can switch mid combo too, going with light-high-fast strikes or the slower-lower-heavy strikes. I could see it as either a slow Down-B that changes the moveset, or a regular B you can press quickly mid-combo to change the way the combo goes. Or use similar mechanics to Marth's side B, where tilting changes the move entirely.
 

Knight Dude

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I’ve noticed this becoming a trend online, so I figured I’d make my own, because I’m bored.


Pick 3 characters to add to Smash.
I’m actually really curious who the most desired Nintendo characters are nowadays.
Isaac, Dixie and the puffball with the stick. Those are cool dudes. For Pokemon, there's no way in hell we're getting Blaziken or Blastoise, so I'm not terribly interested on that front currently. At least Icineroar was a cool Gen 7 Pokemon to pick, he's pretty much Armor King.

Who are some other candidates for a stance mechanic you would be interested in seeing and how would you like to see it implemented?
If Jin Kazama somehow not only got in as a playable character, but could use Omen Stance from the Tekken Tag games, I would act up, simple as that.

And of course Dante has his various styles, or he has a Rebellion/Alastor/DSD stance and Beowulf/Balrog/Ifrit/Gilgamesh stance.

EDIT: My bad, I thought someone posted after me, especially since I was still catching up on the thread. Could these get merged?
 

Diddy Kong

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I’ve noticed this becoming a trend online, so I figured I’d make my own, because I’m bored.


Pick 3 characters to add to Smash.
I’m actually really curious who the most desired Nintendo characters are nowadays.
Dixie Kong
Isaac
Impa

Am only half confident about Isaac. Depends on whether we get Spring Man or not. However he's highly popular and well requested.

Impa is a possibility too because she might be in BotW2 as her younger self. But that's all but confirmed. Am not sure if they're willing to add Hyrule Warriors' version of Impa, but seeing as we get an ARMS fighter, it's possible.

Dixie am currently the least confident about. And that's a shame, she would've been an awesome pick.
 

AEMehr

Mii Fighter
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That's a very "nothing" statement.

We all know that the Koopalings look and stand and act very different to Jr ... are even completely different shapes and sizes compared to him and each other, but we see what happened there.
Ganon has been cursed with Smash ignoring his canon fighting style for a loong time before he finally got some amount of sword love and even then he didn't look "weird as hell" fighting like CF.

A ninja themed dude not being prema crouched isn't some eye-shore.
The only fighting Bowser Jr. does is swinging a hammer for three moves, the character is the clown car. The reason WHY the Koopalings are used is because they don't do enough to warrant the model swapping to be a huge visual or game issue. The characters definitely look off model for some poses, but overall they all still feel and move like the Koopalings would.

Ganondorf was a late clone addition, how you can compare that to a character planned and built from the ground up is absurd in terms of being "properly represented". Especially when you look at how every new fighter has been treated in Ultimate and it's DLC, it's pretty silly to use that as an argument.

ARMs is legit the only fighting game I've seen where all the PCs could be summed up in a composite character move-set. But at the same time you could DECIDE to make them very different. Could take the Ninja and give him the ninja star ARMs and "make up" more Ninja stuff for him to do other than just vanishing dodge. Could take Ribbon Girl and balance her around having 3+ jumps and "make up" idol/ pop-star looking moves for her to do as attacks. You can have Twin actually use all of her limbs to attack instead of just her ARMs and make a cool character who uses 4 arms and 2 legs ... or you could take any of these characters and have then use a basic ARMs move-set instead of something made up and tailored to their design.

Because outside of the visual differences in character design they all "attack" the same way and game play wise they're so completely different to SMASH and are so restricted in what they can do that nothing they do is some kinda easy logical transition to smash (unlike other fighting games that made it in).
But this assumes the fighter is going to be like Mega Man, Villager, or Game & Watch, where they just stuff the one character with EVERYTHING. I don't doubt they're going to be using a selection of ARMS, but they're likely going to just stick to the main Three for the character they pick. That said, even if the characters can all punch and grab, the ARMS and character attributes do more than enough to help build something entirely different from the other characters. I mean, could they have made Isabelle a Villager clone? Very easily. But they approached some of the existing tools differently and even used completely new ones instead. I'm not saying they're going to add multiple different fighters, but to fill out the moveset with a variety of different tools like that just isn't like how the characters work in ARMS and severely hinders any future potential fighters for another game or something.

Tis why I suggested an inverted Mii fighter set-up. Same slot, different body shapes, same move-set with minor differences plus maybe some limited choices in ARMs. Select some number of characters and bam, you got a good number of ARMs roster repped. Smash is no stranger to looking past someone's unique trait to make something that, as a whole, better reps the game.
there is a reason why Miis were changed in this game to be restricted to a single size, and they are MUCH better for that change.

balancing this is a nightmare and hurts the character overall, so i hope something like that never happens again.
 

Sabrewulf238

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I’ve noticed this becoming a trend online, so I figured I’d make my own, because I’m bored.


Pick 3 characters to add to Smash.
I’m actually really curious who the most desired Nintendo characters are nowadays.
From that list I'd pick Isaac, Waluigi and Dixie Kong.

Edit: I'm going to rank them, why not...

1. Isaac
2. Waluigi
3. Dixie Kong
4. Rhythm Heaven
5. Bandana Dee
6. Krystal
7. Ashley
8. Skull Kid
9. Paper Mario
10. Rex
11. Captain Toad
12. Sword/Shield rep

My overall top three is in my signature.
 
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Strider_Bond00J

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I’ve noticed this becoming a trend online, so I figured I’d make my own, because I’m bored.


Pick 3 characters to add to Smash.
I’m actually really curious who the most desired Nintendo characters are nowadays.
Isaac, Rex & Pyra/Mythra, Waluigi if you ask me. Runner up would be either Dixie Kong or Skull Kid, with preference towards Dixie.
 

3BitSaurus

Smash Master
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Nowhere (no, not the Islands)
No arguments here.

It would be very challenging to surpass Brawl’s collective additions in any future game, imo. While still being realistic, of course.
In particular, I think the first party selection was very strong back then. Then we got to 4 and, I dunno... third parties just stole the show. There were still some interesting additions, like Robin and Mac, but in the past two games it seems like Nintendo forgot the power Smash has in terms of exposing their older/more obscure series to a wider audience - as they did in Melee with :icsmelee::marthmelee::gawmelee: and in Brawl with :pit::rob:.
 

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
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In particular, I think the first party selection was very strong back then. Then we got to 4 and, I dunno... third parties just stole the show. There were still some interesting additions, like Robin and Mac, but in the past two games it seems like Nintendo forgot the power Smash has in terms of exposing their older/more obscure series to a wider audience - as they did in Melee with :icsmelee::marthmelee::gawmelee: and in Brawl with :pit::rob:.
I don’t know if it’s so much that, or that fact that Nintendo has also changed as a business over time.

Many series that folks have wanted characters from are...well, dead. Golden Sun, Custom Robo, Advance Wars...3 on a much longer list that Nintendo evidently doesn’t have plans for. The vision for Smash changed as well, going from a focus on Nintendo, and then Ultimate eventually having the goal of “Biggest crossover in Gaming history”. Almost surreal to think about in that perspective...going from a roster of 12 Nintendo characters to a roster that has Metal Gear, Final Fantasy VII, and Persona 5, among others.

I also think there’s just a natural change in focus when you add as many top tier first parties as Smash Ultimate has. The quality and “hype” downsizes dramatically overall when all you have left are less important characters in particular series, or much less known series in general as the entire pool, whereas Pit being “retro” was supported by other gameplay ideas/gaming stars like Meta Knight, Wario, Solid Snake, etc.
 

3BitSaurus

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I don’t know if it’s so much that, or that fact that Nintendo has also changed as a business over time.

Many series that folks have wanted characters from are...well, dead. Golden Sun, Custom Robo, Advance Wars...3 on a much longer list that Nintendo evidently doesn’t have plans for. The vision for Smash changed as well, going from a focus on Nintendo, and then Ultimate eventually having the goal of “Biggest crossover in Gaming history”. Almost surreal to think about in that perspective...going from a roster of 12 Nintendo characters to a roster that has Metal Gear, Final Fantasy VII, and Persona 5, among others.

I also think there’s just a natural change in focus when you add as many top tier first parties as Smash Ultimate has. The quality and “hype” downsizes dramatically overall when all you have left are less important characters in particular series, or much less known series in general as the entire pool, whereas Pit being “retro” was supported by other gameplay ideas/gaming stars like Meta Knight, Wario, Solid Snake, etc.
True, but that's the thing - back then it didn't matter if your series was dead or not, current/last gen or not. That's a beef that the current speculation scene has, really.

I dunno - I love getting more third parties and I love the fact that Smash became the biggest gaming crossover of all... but at the same time, I can't gush enough about how many Nintendo series Smash has introduced me to over the years because they didn't focus on just their biggest or most recent series and games. That's a feeling I miss from the Melee and Brawl times.

Not everything needs crazy hype right away - there are some characters we learn to love. For example, I never played Golden Sun and didn't really support Isaac, but Smash Flash 2 really sold his moveset to me and I want to try the games when I have time.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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This morning I dreamed that Spring Man was just revealed with Min Min as his Echo Fighter. Min Min used what I assumed to be her ARMS 2 design, which was just her normal design except she used her orange pallet swap, and her ARMS were also made of grey hair...yeah I dunno. I remember being very happy about it though.

there is a reason why Miis were changed in this game to be restricted to a single size, and they are MUCH better for that change.

balancing this is a nightmare and hurts the character overall, so i hope something like that never happens again.
The Mii Fighters were hurt because they didn't even try to walk the line between generic and being actually fun to watch. Their movements have no flavour and their special attacks are mildly interesting at best. The ARMS cast would wouldn't feel pressured to be an every-man so their personalities would have a chance to shine. From a balance standpoint the characters are likely to have an ARMS switching mechanic, so their attacks should already be balanced around the ability to change properties. After that, any deviance from Spring Man would be balanced against him instead of the rest of the cast, making it much easier since they can balance the characters by strengths and weaknesses over Spring Man. Now, I don't think every character would work this way; Dr. Coyle's abilities are very obviously good whereas Master Mummies obviously not, and Helix's abilities don't even work in 2D. However, If we're just working with Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, Ninjara, Min Min, or heck, even Twintelle and Kid Kobra, I think they'll be fine.
 

EricTheGamerman

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Jul 21, 2014
Messages
3,197
True, but that's the thing - back then it didn't matter if your series was dead or not, current/last gen or not. That's a beef that the current speculation scene has, really.

I dunno - I love getting more third parties and I love the fact that Smash became the biggest gaming crossover of all... but at the same time, I can't gush enough about how many Nintendo series Smash has introduced me to over the years because they didn't focus on just their biggest or most recent series and games. That's a feeling I miss from the Melee and Brawl times.

Not everything needs crazy hype right away - there are some characters we learn to love. For example, I never played Golden Sun and didn't really support Isaac, but Smash Flash 2 really sold his moveset to me and I want to try the games when I have time.
There's so little to introduce people to these days, and besides newer Switch titles, nothing Nintendo really has much of a stake in introducing you to. I'm sure Golden Sun could always use more attention, but Nintendo has Camelot working on Mario Sports game in perpetuity it seems and Dark Dawn just did so abysmally bad sales wise I don't see Nintendo particularly excited to revisit the series. Rhythm Heaven's creator is literally asking fans to try to push Nintendo to get a new game made on Twitter for Switch as another example. These are just brands that Nintendo doesn't have much interest in and their the ones picking characters for Smash DLC at this point. It has always mattered to Nintendo in a world where Smash has grown into such a phenomenon.

The more niche character picks and introducing you to new series have always been Sakurai pet projects in a base game where they were additions rather than the entire package a DLC Fighter has to be. You don't have to individually sell ROB or Ice Climbers to players, they're just there with the game. That becomes a much more difficult task in a DLC cycle, especially when expectations have gone so sky high.

And indeed I think Smash has changed from a neat pet project that Nintendo supported Sakurai's vision fully on to something a little bit more corporate and focused on actively embracing the massive crossover angle more thoroughly as a company and as an overall tribute to much of the industry. Sakurai took on pet projects with more obscure or limited Nintendo characters, but he has always been a massive fan of games across the board, and he's just as excited to have the chance to work on someone like Terry or Joker as he is for those more traditionally obscure picks.

I just think the dynamics have changed a lot for Smash and how Nintendo views Smash, and that DLC functions a bit differently from base game.
 

CapitaineCrash

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So according to Tsunku, he really want a Rhythm heaven on Switch and he's asking to fans to make our voices heard for a new game (translation from Push Dustin: https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1247761918145658881 )

While that is pretty good news that he still wants to work on the series, I think it kind of confirm the fact that no new games in the series are planned for now, and just killed Rhythm heaven chances to be in Fighter pass 2. I never really saw Rhythm heaven having great chances in the first place, but that's a bit sad to be honest.
 

3BitSaurus

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There's so little to introduce people to these days, and besides newer Switch titles, nothing Nintendo really has much of a stake in introducing you to. I'm sure Golden Sun could always use more attention, but Nintendo has Camelot working on Mario Sports game in perpetuity it seems and Dark Dawn just did so abysmally bad sales wise I don't see Nintendo particularly excited to revisit the series. Rhythm Heaven's creator is literally asking fans to try to push Nintendo to get a new game made on Twitter for Switch as another example. These are just brands that Nintendo doesn't have much interest in and their the ones picking characters for Smash DLC at this point. It has always mattered to Nintendo in a world where Smash has grown into such a phenomenon.

The more niche character picks and introducing you to new series have always been Sakurai pet projects in a base game where they were additions rather than the entire package a DLC Fighter has to be. You don't have to individually sell ROB or Ice Climbers to players, they're just there with the game. That becomes a much more difficult task in a DLC cycle, especially when expectations have gone so sky high.

And indeed I think Smash has changed from a neat pet project that Nintendo supported Sakurai's vision fully on to something a little bit more corporate and focused on actively embracing the massive crossover angle more thoroughly as a company and as an overall tribute to much of the industry. Sakurai took on pet projects with more obscure or limited Nintendo characters, but he has always been a massive fan of games across the board, and he's just as excited to have the chance to work on someone like Terry or Joker as he is for those more traditionally obscure picks.

I just think the dynamics have changed a lot for Smash and how Nintendo views Smash, and that DLC functions a bit differently from base game.
Dunno, I don't think we can say there's "little" to introduce to newer audiences when most people can come up with at least 5 or 6 names. Besides, what you've described is basically an endless cycle - Nintendo thinks their more obscure IPs aren't worth it, so they don't introduce them to newer crowds, thus making these IPs even more obscure with time and Nintendo thinks they're even less worth it. Had this kind of line of thought been followed since the beginning, Fire Emblem would never have come to the west and Kid Icarus Uprising would not have been a thing.

It's cool that we got a wider net to cast, but I think there's a middle road to be taken - there's no need to make Smash just a pet project or just a corporate one.

Regarding the base roster vs DLC talk, my OP was referring to the newcomers in general. It wasn't a question of them being DLC right now or anything like that.
 

Turtlar

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 4, 2014
Messages
106
I’ve noticed this becoming a trend online, so I figured I’d make my own, because I’m bored.


Pick 3 characters to add to Smash.
I’m actually really curious who the most desired Nintendo characters are nowadays.
Dixie Kong
Skull Kid
Bandana Dee

Dixie Kong is the last first party character I think Ultimate is truly missing, and I just think Zelda and Kirby are both long overdue for a new character. All three are personal favorites as well.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
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So according to Tsunku, he really want a Rhythm heaven on Switch and he's asking to fans to make our voices heard for a new game (translation from Push Dustin: https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1247761918145658881 )

While that is pretty good news that he still wants to work on the series, I think it kind of confirm the fact that no new games in the series are planned for now, and just killed Rhythm heaven chances to be in Fighter pass 2. I never really saw Rhythm heaven having great chances in the first place, but that's a bit sad to be honest.
Aw man. Considering how niche the series is this probably marks its death.
 

snowgolem

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Too lazy to find that ‘pick 3’ thing, but you all know the choices at this point. Waluigi, because he belongs before any other first party, Rex, because he’d be really cool and I’d be curious about how his moveset would work, and one of my team which I have always on me for Pokémon Sword. Aka Zacian, Togekiss, Delibird, Thievul, Silvally, and that’s all because the last one is gigantamax Charizard. I’d personally want Delibird, Togekiss, and Silvally the most.
 

Lionfranky

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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Master Chief: What's he been doing?

Kratos: Absolutely nothing.

Mario: Where are the discs?

Master Chief: Somewhere under all this. All I know is he doesn't have them.

Mario: So we keep it that way.

Kratos: You know it's a trap, right?

Master Chief: Yeah, I don't much care.

Kratos: Good. Just as long as we're all in agreement

[Summons Mjolnir and Leviathan]

Kratos: Let's kill him properly this time.

Atari: You could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me. I thought by eliminating half of all games the other half would thrive without threat gaming crash, but you have shown me... that's impossible. As long as there are those that remember what was, there will always be those that are unable to accept what can be. They will resist.

Master Chief: Yeah, we're all kinds of stubborn.

Atari: I'm thankful. Because now I know what I must do. I will shred this industry down to its last data and then, with the discs you've collected for me, I will create a new one. Teeming with games that know not what is lost but only knows what it is been given... a grateful industry.

Mario: Born out of mess.

Atari: They'll never know it. Because you won't be alive to tell them.

[Kratos charges in with electricity surging. Master Chief takes out his energy sword. Mario attacks with his turtle shield.]
So, with this parody, I came up with another game...

Make gaming cinematic universe similar to MCU. It would better if you try to match MCU character counter parts with video game characters.

Master Chief (Because both Ironman and Chief are armor guys)
Donkey Kong (Both Donkey Kong and Hulk are brute type)
Master Chief 2
Kratos (Thor appears at the end of God of War 4, so Kratos can get Mjolnir. And his axe, Leviathan is like Stormbreaker)
Mario: The First Titan
Titans
Master Chief 3
Kratos: Dark World
Mario: Yellow Plumber
Guardians of Gaming (Ratchet&Clank, Ezio, Jill, Crash)
Titans: Age of Guilty Spark
Tracer
Jaina Proudmoore (I can't think of other mainstream mage. Forgive me if there is a better choice)
Guardians of Gaming Vol.2
Sora: Homecoming
Kratos: Ragnarok
Sonic (I kinda envision Sega like Wakanda)
Titans: Infinity War (Atari wants to eliminate half of all games to stop another gaming crash)
Tracer and Genji
Bayonetta
Titans: Endgame

I know it's pretty sloppy attempt, but still fun nonetheless.
 

PeridotGX

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This makes me wonder...

I know Cosmic77 loves Zacian, but I think most people would prefer a Pokémon from a different generation. So, what is everyone's ideal Pokémon pick when disregarding likelihood. Pretend there's a gun to your head and you have to pick one regardless of whether you want one or not.
avenge.png

I'm still not over it...
 

Michael the Spikester

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So, with this parody, I came up with another game...

I know it's pretty sloppy attempt, but still fun nonetheless.
Why not just an Nintendo/Smash Cinematic Universe?

What if the animated Super Mario Bros. movie is secretly the start of one. Picture the post-creidts.

*End credits of Mario movie*

*Arwing lands as Mario stares in shock*

Fox McCloud- "Its a big universe, and what happened here is just the start. Mario, I'm here to talk to you about the Super Smash Brothers tournament."
 

Dukefire

Smash Master
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Messages
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Just asking, once a ARMS character(s) has been revealed, where would the character be on the poster?
 

chocolatejr9

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 30, 2018
Messages
8,271
So, with this parody, I came up with another game...

Make gaming cinematic universe similar to MCU. It would better if you try to match MCU character counter parts with video game characters.

Master Chief (Because both Ironman and Chief are armor guys)
Donkey Kong (Both Donkey Kong and Hulk are brute type)
Master Chief 2
Kratos (Thor appears at the end of God of War 4, so Kratos can get Mjolnir. And his axe, Leviathan is like Stormbreaker)
Mario: The First Titan
Titans
Master Chief 3
Kratos: Dark World
Mario: Yellow Plumber
Guardians of Gaming (Ratchet&Clank, Ezio, Jill, Crash)
Titans: Age of Guilty Spark
Tracer
Jaina Proudmoore (I can't think of other mainstream mage. Forgive me if there is a better choice)
Guardians of Gaming Vol.2
Sora: Homecoming
Kratos: Ragnarok
Sonic (I kinda envision Sega like Wakanda)
Titans: Infinity War (Atari wants to eliminate half of all games to stop another gaming crash)
Tracer and Genji
Bayonetta
Titans: Endgame

I know it's pretty sloppy attempt, but still fun nonetheless.
Wait, is Atari meant to be based on that one character from Hyperdimension Neptunia, who was themself a reference to Atari? Or should we just use Bubsy or something?
 

DarthEnderX

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
7,634
It's almost like "deserving" is a subjective term, hence meaningless as a way to classify characters.
It would be...if character speculation/anticipation wasn't already 100% subjective and a matter of opinion anyway, making it no less valid than any other way to classify characters.
 
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