Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[nessdeltarune00]

What is your question about joker again?

Here. This pretty much was met with the excuse of “He didn’t appear in PASBR”.

Going by this logic, do you think Jack Frost should’ve been chosen before Joker? If not, why so? Nintendo appearances clearly are make or break to you, so it should be quite odd that a character that originated from the Famicom was shafted in favor of a previously PS4 exclusive character.

 

[MooMew64]

If needing to have millions upon millions of sales determined who got in Smash, then say goodbye to a good chunk of the roster.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I thought this was cute. Not a fan of the series but I noticed the last line that might get some people talking even though these sorts of "hints" never go anywhere.

こんにちは😃

ただいま新橋へと移動中🥰

さっきはひさびさに
こんな可愛い子の声録りでした🤣💖💖💖

大好きな
シロでもクロでもない世界で、パンダは笑う　ならぬ

シロでもクロでもないクマ😆💖💖💖

みんな今日もファイト🙌🙌#ダンガンロンパ pic.twitter.com/5L8kFoIUw0

— TARA (@tarawaku) February 19, 2020

She basically says she's recording lines for him but the last line says

Could be a Danganronpa fighting game (which I'd LOVE to see). realistically tho I think Monokuma would get in Smash as nothing more than a costume. hopefully a premium (Brawler) one with a music track

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Some people are still clinging on to her bandwagon, I suppose.

Popular in Japan. Her series is the predecessor to the Xenoblade franchise. She’s far from a bandwagon pick. She’s niche, I’ll say that. Not as popular in the West.

Not really a bandwagon pick that. Bandwagon picks are someone like Waluigi.

 

[Knight Dude]

I guess if there was a first party series I wouldn't be that interested in getting a new character for, it'd probably be Zelda. I think any of the viable choice probably aren't gonna happen. And IF they ever did pull an AT Upgrade, I don't see it being Skull Kid or Midna with Wolf Link.

Granted, from Nintendo themselves, I think most the characters I actually care about are in. Dixie, Sylux, Spring-Man or Isaac would be cool. But there's a snowball's chance in hell of that happening.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Here. This pretty much was met with the excuse of “He didn’t appear in PASBR”.

Ok. Old vs new question. got it.

If needing to have millions upon millions of sales determined who got in Smash, then say goodbye to a good chunk of the roster.

I don't think sales matter like that. All they do is give an indication of what characters a company may prioritize. But it is a weighted average in a way.
Sales x 40%
Requests x 30%
New game/Promotion x 30 %

Something like that. I think that they can guide, but do not disqualify.

I guess if there was a first party series I wouldn't be that interested in getting a new character for, it'd probably be Zelda. I think any of the viable choice probably aren't gonna happen. And IF they ever did pull an AT Upgrade, I don't see it being Skull Kid or Midna with Wolf Link.

Granted, from Nintendo themselves, I think most the characters I actually care about are in. Dixie, Sylux, Spring-Man or Isaac would be cool. But there's a snowball's chance in hell of that happening.

I find it odd. When you look at series, you always pick the top of the list. For the Zelda series. It is Link, Zelda and Ganon. Everyone else is lower tier. Goes for all series. I do not see a need for more zelda characters because we hit the major notes.
One reason why I do not hate on FE is because they change that cast every game, so the big notes are not as a different from the small ones (outside marth).

For other series, finishing off the core groups would be nice.
Dixie for the DKC group.
Waddle Dee because they made him the 4th ranger in the newer games.
etc.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

I thought this was cute. Not a fan of the series but I noticed the last line that might get some people talking even though these sorts of "hints" never go anywhere.

こんにちは😃

ただいま新橋へと移動中🥰

さっきはひさびさに
こんな可愛い子の声録りでした🤣💖💖💖

大好きな
シロでもクロでもない世界で、パンダは笑う　ならぬ

シロでもクロでもないクマ😆💖💖💖

みんな今日もファイト🙌🙌#ダンガンロンパ pic.twitter.com/5L8kFoIUw0

— TARA (@tarawaku) February 19, 2020

She basically says she's recording lines for him but the last line says

Interesting.

It 99% means nothing, but the entire Danganronpa series has already wrapped up.

Probably isn’t Smash, but it could be for a cameo of some sorts.

 

[Knight Dude]

If needing to have millions upon millions of sales determined who got in Smash, then say goodbye to a good chunk of the roster.

We get less FE, meaning less salt about that franchise in particular. But we lose Ike, since his games didn't sell as well as the 3 newest titles have.

Life is truly cruel.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

I think that a very importan question here is; does Nintendo want to colaborate again with the same publishers of FP1? Because if the answer is no and Nintendo wants to work with other publishers so they can bring more diversity to FP2, that means that we will not get more Sega, Square-Enix, Microsoft or SNK characters (IPs like Yakuza, Halo, Nier, Tomb Raider, etc). A curious “exception” would be Sora from Kingdom Hearts because the rights of the IP belongs to Disney. Its possible that they want to work again with Capcom and/or Namco-Bandai that don’t have DLC fighters.

Moreover, if Nintendo wants to work with other publishers, it maybe opens the door to characters from companies like Koei-Tecmo, Arc System Works, Level-5. Marvelous, Nippon Ichi, Falcom or even western publishers like Activision-Blizzard, Warner Bros or Bethesda.

 

[MooMew64]

Not really a bandwagon pick that. Bandwagon picks are someone like Waluigi.

People really still out here with this take, huh.

 

[drag0nscythe]

I think that a very importan question here is; does Nintendo want to colaborate again with the same publishers of FP1? Because if the answer is no and Nintendo wants to work with other publishers so they can bring more diversity to FP2, that means that we will not get more Sega, Square-Enix, Microsoft or SNK characters (IPs like Yakuza, Halo, Nier, Tomb Raider, etc). A curious “exception” would be Sora from Kingdom Hearts because the rights of the IP belongs to Disney. Its possible that they want to work again with Capcom and/or Namco-Bandai that don’t have DLC fighters.

Moreover, if Nintendo wants to work with other publishers, it maybe opens the door to characters from companies like Koei-Tecmo, Arc System Works, Level-5. Marvelous, Nippon Ichi, Falcom or even western publishers like Activision-Blizzard, Warner Bros or Bethesda.

Good question. And I do not know if anyone would have an answer to that question yet. I hope they do a mixture. 3 new companies and 2 old 3rd party companies. And the a FE rep as Number 11. :-)

 

[Seanapotamus]

I seem to remember back in early September after the SNK leak that people said Terry wouldn't be in Smash Ultimate because he was already a guest character in Fighting Ex Layer, resulting in said people believing the SNK rep would be either Kyo, Nakoruru, or a Metal Slug character. They were proven wrong a couple days later.

It has already been established that being in another crossover game doesn't stop a character from being in Smash. If that was the case, then we wouldn't have characters who have been in plenty of crossovers like , , and .

As for Namco characters and whether it'll be Lloyd, Heihachi, or someone else, well we don't know if there will be one as one of the last six characters. And sales aren't really the most important factor in choosing a character.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I think that a very importan question here is; does Nintendo want to colaborate again with the same publishers of FP1? Because if the answer is no and Nintendo wants to work with other publishers so they can bring more diversity to FP2, that means that we will not get more Sega, Square-Enix, Microsoft or SNK characters (IPs like Yakuza, Halo, Nier, Tomb Raider, etc). A curious “exception” would be Sora from Kingdom Hearts because the rights of the IP belongs to Disney. Its possible that they want to work again with Capcom and/or Namco-Bandai that don’t have DLC fighters.

Moreover, if Nintendo wants to work with other publishers, it maybe opens the door to characters from companies like Koei-Tecmo, Arc System Works, Level-5. Marvelous, Nippon Ichi, Falcom or even western publishers like Activision-Blizzard, Warner Bros or Bethesda.

i think Square Enix might double dip. Maybe not Atlus, but their parent company Sega too.

 

[blackghost]

"Smaller"? Last time I checked Tekken sold 49 million copies while Devil May Cry only sold 21 million copies. Putting Heihachi on the same scale as Geno and calling him small is not genuine.
But kudos to you for chosing him as the Namco rep and not the literal who named Lloyd like some deluded Tales fanboys often do (heavily overestimating their niche series).

yeah no. tales is a big series. tales has 20 million in total sales. Lloyd is from the most beloved tales game that launched was on a Nintendo console. Also, smash fangames have put Lloyd in their games. Lloyd is not overhyped by fanboys. this is not like a situation like some other smaller characters.

 

[Deleted member]

I thought this was cute. Not a fan of the series but I noticed the last line that might get some people talking even though these sorts of "hints" never go anywhere.

こんにちは😃

ただいま新橋へと移動中🥰

さっきはひさびさに
こんな可愛い子の声録りでした🤣💖💖💖

大好きな
シロでもクロでもない世界で、パンダは笑う　ならぬ

シロでもクロでもないクマ😆💖💖💖

みんな今日もファイト🙌🙌#ダンガンロンパ pic.twitter.com/5L8kFoIUw0

— TARA (@tarawaku) February 19, 2020

She basically says she's recording lines for him but the last line says

MFW Danganronpa fighting game. They have the wacky premise and characters; all they need are the developers.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Popular in Japan. Her series is the predecessor to the Xenoblade franchise. She’s far from a bandwagon pick. She’s niche, I’ll say that. Not as popular in the West.

Not really a bandwagon pick that. Bandwagon picks are someone like Waluigi.

Nah KOSMOS is absolutely a bandwagon as she only gained traction after a fake leak, though for some reason people seem to think bandwagoning is exclusively bad, though that crowd probably didn't mind me bandwagoning K.Rool or Isaac but call it natural charisma or some ****

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Nah KOSMOS is absolutely a bandwagon as she only gained traction after a fake leak, though for some reason people seem to think bandwagoning is exclusively bad, though that crowd probably didn't mind me bandwagoning K.Rool or Isaac but call it natural charisma or some ****

Another take on KOS-MOS supporter, but yes. Just as valid. I’ve seen KOS-MOS support since pre WiiU/3DS days. They just aren’t as vocal as some other potential character supporters.

 

[MooMew64]

BTW who cares why someone wants a character? Like, even if someone wants a character because they hopped on a "bandwagon", how does that write off someone's desire for the character? Aren't the whole point of those support threads y'all like so much basically a form of trying to get other people to want what you want anyways?

 

[Sari]

Personal Bias and Nostalgia.
Need anything more then that really?

So you're saying that KOS-MOS has a greater chance of making it into Smash over Heihachi/Lloyd because... you personally like her more?

 

[Deleted member]

Nah KOSMOS is absolutely a bandwagon as she only gained traction after a fake leak, though for some reason people seem to think bandwagoning is exclusively bad, though that crowd probably didn't mind me bandwagoning K.Rool or Isaac but call it natural charisma or some ****

Bandwagoning is absolutely not bad. It pushes people to learn about new characters and series!

Mach Rider itself is a bandwagon character who only gained traction during the Grinch leak. DOOM and Ryu were major parts of the old 5chan leak, and that's when their discussion merits started showing up. I remember the Geno thread trashing Erdrick for being a bandwagon character when Geno's popularity itself bandwagoned only after Sakurai made a single comment over Geno having a gun for an arm and being cool. Fairly certain nobody would give two damns about any of the characters I listed if they weren't bandwagoned.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

If relation to another console or platform is a problem, then I hate to tell you this but Cloud, Snake, Joker, and yes, even Banjo-Kazooie are primarily known (or in Banjo’s case, owned) for their appearances on other consoles.

Heihachi is fine.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

BTW who cares why someone wants a character? Like, even if someone wants a character because they hopped on a "bandwagon", how does that write off someone's desire for the character? Aren't the whole point of those support threads y'all like so much basically a form of trying to get other people to want what you want anyways?

Right? Thank you. Christ.

 

[Cosmic77]

Not really a bandwagon pick that. Bandwagon picks are someone like Waluigi.

Waluigi has a lot of genuine support though, and it's been pretty consistent across Smash games.

No offense to the people who legitimately want it, but I think Rillaboom is a better example of a bandwagon character. It's clearly not the most popular starter in Japan, and I think most people can see that a majority of the world favors either Cinderace or Inteleon as well. Despite that, it's still the most popular starter in Smash speculation, and a lot of that has to do with its typing. Not because of its moveset potential, not because people have been requesting a drummer for several years, but because it's a grass type. Once Gen 9 comes out, everyone will ditch it and stop caring because the new grass starter will be the one to support.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Bandwagoning is absolutely not bad. Bandwagoning itself is not bad. It pushes people to learn about new characters and series!

Mach Rider itself is a bandwagon character who only gained traction during the Grinch leak. DOOM and Ryu were major parts of the old 5chan leak, and that's when their discussion merits started showing up. I remember the Geno thread trashing Erdrick for being a bandwagon character when Geno's popularity itself bandwagoned only after Sakurai made a single comment over Geno having a gun for an arm and being cool. Fairly certain nobody would give two damns about any of the characters I listed if they weren't bandwagoned.

Eh, Mach Rider bandwagoned off of being considered for Melee and I'd say that one Forest Maze video caused Geno's bandwagon

 

[MooMew64]

If relation to another console or platform is a problem, then I hate to tell you this but Cloud, Snake, Joker, and yes, even Banjo-Kazooie are primarily known (or in Banjo’s case, owned) for their appearances on other consoles.

Heihachi is fine.

Yeah IDK why this whole argument even started TBH. From what I understand, I guess someone thought him being in PSBABR would stop him being in Smash? If that's the case, then nah I gotta disagree with that take and reiterate what others here have said: Heihachi is a perfectly valid candidate for DLC.

 

[blackghost]

Lets see.
Cloud was in Ehirgiz
Ryu and Ken are SF
Simon was in the Castlvania fighting gme.
Snake was in smash
Terry is from KOF.
Megaman was in MVC.
Pacman was in Namco Vs Capcom

not sure about Bayo.

bayo was in anarchy reigns

 

[Dinoman96]

Xenosaga was kind of a flop of a franchise (which was pubicly admitted by its creators IIRC) and KOS-MOS is basically Namco's equivalent to Morrigan Aensland (j.e far more popular as a crossover/merchandise vehicle than their respective series).

And well, I certainly don't expect to see Morrigan in Smash anytime soon. So I don't see why KOS-MOS should be added.

 

[BZL8]

The fact we currently know nothing about Nintendo/Sakurai's direction for the DLC this season is something that I simultaneously love/hate. I love it because we know nothing. I hate it because it means putting up with ridiculous online discourse at times.

Though I am of the mind that characters that aren't really talked about much in the core Smash fanbase (here for example) is still going to be a focus this season.

 

[JudgeHeihachi]

Except Tales isn't nearly as small compared to Tekken as Banjo was to Minecraft, so it all balances out.

20 Million sales vs 40 million is hell of a lot more even than 5 million vs 200 million. And like I stated before, Tales has had more longterm support due to Tekken mostly being seen as an impossibility prior to Joker's addition.

The fan demand about Lloyd is just an echo-chamber thing. Harada himself (for who do not know him the Tekken director and since early 2019 General Manager at Bandai Namco) specifically stated that Tekken characters got way more requests than Tales or Gundam characters:
"The fans, rather than asking about Tales or Gundam or some of our other franchises, the fans abroad saw Tekken as one of the key words and took off on that," he says. "We're not really sure at this moment but when thinking of the playerbase who is playing Smash Bros., maybe Tekken characters is something they wouldn't want, so I've been pulling back on that a bit. But I don't know."
https://www.engadget.com/2012/07/10/harada-pulling-back-on-idea-of-tekken-characters-in-new-smash/

Yeah, the fact that it's first worldwide release was on a Nintendo console is even greater for it. And you don't even know if Lloyd wasn't considered, Sakurai only talked about Heihachi because he outright rejected him in terms of gameplay.

And again why are there no plans for Tales of Arise on Switch if Tales is so close to Nintendo? Also lmao at grasping at straws: "you don't even kmow if Lloyd was considered", neither do you as there is no evidence for it. If anything if Lloyd is such a shoe-in why hasn't he appeared before? If he is so supported and easy to implement? Heihachi ast least has the excuse that it takes time to develop his complex moveset? But Floyd from Fails of Symphonia? Sure has nothing going for him.

 

[Knight Dude]

I think that a very importan question here is; does Nintendo want to colaborate again with the same publishers of FP1? Because if the answer is no and Nintendo wants to work with other publishers so they can bring more diversity to FP2, that means that we will not get more Sega, Square-Enix, Microsoft or SNK characters (IPs like Yakuza, Halo, Nier, Tomb Raider, etc). A curious “exception” would be Sora from Kingdom Hearts because the rights of the IP belongs to Disney. Its possible that they want to work again with Capcom and/or Namco-Bandai that don’t have DLC fighters.

Moreover, if Nintendo wants to work with other publishers, it maybe opens the door to characters from companies like Koei-Tecmo, Arc System Works, Level-5. Marvelous, Nippon Ichi, Falcom or even western publishers like Activision-Blizzard, Warner Bros or Bethesda.

Maybe. Though if that was the case, would Spirits from River City count against Arc System Works? And if not, does the lack of Namco content outside of Pac-Man, leave them on the table or not?

I think prioritizing new companies could be interesting, however I think taking things into a franchise by franchise basis would make more sense. Square does own Tomb Raider now, but clearly it has its own audience and reputation separate from DQ and FF. It represents a different style of game entirely from them too. Sure, another JRPG from Square would be less diverse than say, Ninja Gaiden or Tekken. But so would Tomb Raider, despite being Square. Or in Microsoft's case, Conker would feel a bit redundant to follow up Banjo. But you can't say the same about Fulgore, Master Chief or Minecraft.

It's part of the reason why so many requests end up being Capcom and Sega characters like Kiryu, Jill, Dante, Arle and Phoenix Wright. Each of these franchises still bring in a whole new group of fans into Smash. This ends up opening two questions I think.

1. Do two or more popular or interesting characters/franchises from the same company have to compete with each other? Like Dante and Phoenix.
2. Regardless of that, would going back to a returning company be easier to pull from than getting something entirely new?

 

[I.D.]

Yeah IDK why this whole argument even started TBH. From what I understand, I guess someone thought him being in PSBABR would stop him being in Smash? If that's the case, then nah I gotta disagree with that take and reiterate what others here have said: Heihachi is a perfectly valid candidate for DLC.

The argument actually started when a certain someone called Tales fans deluded and used the Tekken Wii U port as proof of Tekken having more Nintendo history than Tales.

I can't help but notice that when certain gamefaqs users come to this thread it always goes to hell.

 

[drag0nscythe]

So you're saying that KOS-MOS has a greater chance of making it into Smash over Heihachi/Lloyd because... you personally like her more?

It was my ranking of how I felt. Of course I have her having a greater chance because I like her more.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Geez, this thread looks like it’s turning into a dumpster fire.

Regarding “bandwagons,” I don’t get why people use that to downplay characters, either. I did think it was bad before because of how people used the term, but honestly most people who like and support a character do so because they just genuinely do, and just didn’t think about said character for Smash before despite really liking them because the thought didn’t come to them. It’s always annoying when people use “bandwagon” to downplay other people’s character picks, as if those characters somehow aren’t actually popular despite all the people clamoring for them. And who gives a crap if a character has a bunch of popular memes, many people still like those characters for themselves even if they also like the memes.

It’s funny, too; some characters that were dismissed because of “bandwagons” now have long-standing support, and some having support in places even before leaks and whatever. Not that people pushing for a character for a shorter amount of time is bad, it’s most-likely fans who believed their characters finally had a shot and then started thinking they were unlikely again or don’t have much to say.

 

[Deleted member]

Eh, Mach Rider bandwagoned off of being considered for Melee and I'd say that one Forest Maze video caused Geno's bandwagon

I swear to you Mach Rider as a potential newcomer never came up once for Smash 4 or Ultimate until after they appeared in the Grinch Leak.

Geno's a bit more complicated because they ride a sin wave of hopes and dreams (going up and down and up and down). That, and the Geno thread didn't really accelerate until Jun 2018 when Ultimate was showed off for the first time. He definitely gained traction when his mii costume showed up or the Smash ballot dropped back in Smash 4. One of the two.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Geez, this thread looks like it’s turning into a dumpster fire.

Regarding “bandwagons,” I don’t get why people use that to downplay characters, either. I did think it was bad before because of how people used the term, but honestly most people who like and support a character do so because they just genuinely do, and just didn’t think about said character for Smash before despite really liking them because the thought didn’t come to them. It’s always annoying when people use “bandwagon” to downplay other people’s character picks, as if those characters somehow aren’t actually popular despite all the people clamoring for them.

Usually used to dismiss. I can say it about character I do not like also. Sans is a bandwagon character. So is Llyod. And Waluigi.
Meh.

 

[Deleted member]

Geez, this thread looks like it’s turning into a dumpster fire.

You're a good 2 years too late to be saying that

 

[Rie Sonomura]

bayo was in anarchy reigns

>only available as preorder content

I honestly hope that trend phases out completely in time. You know some Batman Arkham game just patched in a costume for free, that before then was only available at a certain irl event, it screws over late adopters

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Xenosaga was kind of a flop of a franchise (which was pubicly admitted by its creators IIRC) and KOS-MOS is basically Namco's equivalent to Morrigan Aensland (j.e far more popular as a crossover/merchandise vehicle than their respective series).

And well, I certainly don't expect to see Morrigan in Smash anytime soon. So I don't see why KOS-MOS should be added.

Source?

 

[Knight Dude]

BTW who cares why someone wants a character? Like, even if someone wants a character because they hopped on a "bandwagon", how does that write off someone's desire for the character? Aren't the whole point of those support threads y'all like so much basically a form of trying to get other people to want what you want anyways?

Exactly. Hell, I'm a-okay with getting more people into Mega Man X(and other sub-series) and Tekken if at all possible. I try to be positive about it, hopefully without annoying people about my enthusiasm for the characters.

 

[Deleted member]

Exactly. Hell, I'm a-okay with getting more people into Mega Man X(and other sub-series) and Tekken if at all possible. I try to be positive about it, hopefully without annoying people about my enthusiasm for the characters.

Y'all better believe that if Bomberman ever has a reasonable chance to be a newcomer ever again, I'm forcing you all onto the bandwagon.