Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[RoboFist]

I feel there is a valid counterpoint against Elma, which is that her time has just passed. It happens. She falls into the Lyn/Gen3&5/Krystal/Goroh group in that sense.

As someone who was actively hoping for best girl Lyn to get into Brawl, thinking that her importance to the series all but guaranteed her a well-deserved spot, only to see that spot yanked out from underneath her by whoever the hell this Ike guy is...

...yet continuing to hope that she would eventually get that coveted AT promotion during the lead up to both Smash 4 and Ultimate, only to come to that harrowing realization that FE was quickly becoming over-represented with newer characters as Lyn's game became less and less relevant...

...yeah, I feel this. It sucks big time, but eventually you have to take the L on certain characters.

 

[blackghost]

Is this not Bowser?
What are you basing this off?
Dafuq

did you read what i wrote.?? not. in. smash. bowser is in smash.
and im basing it on the fact that sepiroth's theme music one winged angel is more known than certain characters, the fact he is a common cosplay, he's the top FF villain in a series filled with big villains, peoples hype for the remake, and his overall impact in design choices for characters to this day.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I mean no offense by this, but I really do think people overrate Shantae as an upgrade candidate, as well as a pick for Smash overall. Seems as though folks oversell her.

Sans, Cuphead, and Shovel Knight are bigger names despite not being around nearly as long. The most they got were Mii Costumes. I just can’t see Shantae being added over them.

 

[Deleted member]

sephiroth biggest villain in videogames not in.

Um... Dr. Eggman? I'd argue he's much more recognizable than Sephiroth and is the biggest gaming villain that doesn't have a major role in Smash be it Assist Trophy, Boss or Playable Character.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Saw this in one of my discords. Are there any characters not in Smash that you feel like 100% deserve to be in Smash. Like there are no counterpoints(or valid ones anyway, not that dumb **** where we had someone screaming that we cant have 2 DLC characters wearing trench coats in the game), no obvious reasons from them to not be in, and it feels like the only thing keeping them out is the fact they just haven't been picked yet. Overall, this character really should be here and them not being in it feels wrong.

I'm really not sure there is one. Inkling was the only slam dunk for me right off the bat and she was the first one taken care of. Interested in hearing opinions on this because it feels like all the must haves might be covered

I think Professor Layton should've happen in Smash 4, either as dlc or in base game. At the very least he really deserve to be a spirit, it's so shocking for me to see this franchise having nothing because Level 5 is very close to Nintendo and Professor Layton being number 20, 22 and 26 in the best selling DS games. While not everyone wants him (and I totally get that), I rarely see (if ever) people saying that he don't deserve to be in (most argument are mostly "he couldn't fight" or things like that).

 

[Jomosensual]

Dixie Kong

My personal hot take is that if we're getting a new DK character it should be Cranky Kong first since he's the original DK, but there's a few reasons that's not going to happen. I don't have much attachment to Dixie so I'm not going to bat for her personally but I get the case

E L M A

if Rex can’t be our next Xenoblade rep, the series still nevertheless deserves another and should be Elma. Her game came out at the right time for the Ultimate project plan too

Xenoblade feels like it should get another for sure. Can't say I'd go for either specifically because either one of them getting in feels right. Only real knock I have, and others mentioned this too, is that she might have just came at a bad time. If the new game theory holds up then I think I might agree with you.

deserve? lara croft, sephiroth, dante and maybe shantae.

I can see a case for Dante. Gonna have to disagree with Shantae and Lara. Shantae has the indie issue we're still talking about now and Lara has Square, who likely has the price really damn high and won't give much to go with her, so it makes sense although I think she should absolutely get in. I agree with Seph for sure if we're going to add another Final Fantasy rep but I don't have an issue with Cloud being picked first, and he also has the SE issues that Lara has

 

[shinhed-echi]

Saw this in one of my discords. Are there any characters not in Smash that you feel like 100% deserve to be in Smash. Like there are no counterpoints(or valid ones anyway, not that dumb **** where we had someone screaming that we cant have 2 DLC characters wearing trench coats in the game), no obvious reasons from them to not be in, and it feels like the only thing keeping them out is the fact they just haven't been picked yet. Overall, this character really should be here and them not being in it feels wrong.

I'm really not sure there is one. Inkling was the only slam dunk for me right off the bat and she was the first one taken care of. Interested in hearing opinions on this because it feels like all the must haves might be covered

If I have to toss bias completely out the window...
I believe a Golden Sun character, like Isaac, should have been in this game a long time ago.

I mean, before Brawl, was Kid Icarus really that much more popular than Golden Sun? (This coming from someone who has Kid Icarus as one of his top 3 favorite non-smash Nintendo IP's).

And up to Smash 4, I always thought Little Mac should have been... From the very beginning. Like, up until Smash 64, there were already 4 Punch Out! games if we include the 2 arcades. That's twice as many as Captain Falcon or Ness had back then.

 

[blackghost]

Um... Dr. Eggman? I'd argue he's much more recognizable than Sephiroth and is the biggest gaming villain that doesn't have a major role in Smash be it Assist Trophy, Boss or Playable Character.

Dr. Robotnik is well known but i wouldnt say he's at sepiroth's level due to the other factors i listed. and the fact that sephiroth is a much more compelling character than eggman/Robotnik ever has been.

 

[Lacrimosa]

did you read what i wrote.?? not. in. smash. bowser is in smash.
and im basing it on the fact that sepiroth's theme music one winged angel is more known than certain characters, the fact he is a common cosplay, he's the top FF villain in a series filled with big villains, peoples hype for the remake, and his overall impact in design choices for characters to this day.

I don't know.

Bad Apple and U.N. Owen (which has more views on YT than One-Winged Angel btw.) was her are also a very popular theme and most people don't know Reimu (granted, both themes aren't associated with her) or Touhou.
I think using music as the only argument isn't working that well.

E: nvm, Youtube didn'T list the most watched version of the song on 1st place. So stupid...

I would associate Final Fantasy with that theme and not necessarily Sephiroth.
Although Sephirith would be a good pick, not gonna lie here.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Sauce? I never knew he never planned on speaking about him till February.

No specific source on February specifically, but he surely didn't plan on revealing Joker at TGAs. The next direct after that was in February, so I assume Sakurai would've revealed him then for release soon after.

 

[Jomosensual]

Um... Dr. Eggman? I'd argue he's much more recognizable than Sephiroth and is the biggest gaming villain that doesn't have a major role in Smash be it Assist Trophy, Boss or Playable Character.

Eggman is a real good call. Can see a good case for him. He should really have something other than a spirit at least.

 

[P.Kat]

At this point I think it's most likely that indie characters will be added as "deluxe" Mii costumes with a music track or a bunch of music tracks.
Cuphead is a Mii costume, but I still have some hopes for the Knight to become a full character.

That could be the fate of indie characters, but having an indie character become a full fledged fighter would make historic wave through the Smash community.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

If I have to toss bias completely out the window...
I believe a Golden Sun character, like Isaac, should have been in this game a long time ago.

I mean, before Brawl, was Kid Icarus really that much more popular than Golden Sun? (This coming from someone who has Kid Icarus as one of his top 3 favorite non-smash Nintendo IP's).

And up to Smash 4, I always thought Little Mac should have been... From the very beginning. Like, up until Smash 64, there were already 4 Punch Out! games if we include the 2 arcades. That's twice as many as Captain Falcon or Ness had back then.

Kid Icarus explicitly got in as a retro rep though. The criteria for Pit's inclusion was separate from that of another newcomer, like Diddy.

Golden Sun definitely should've gotten in at Brawl though. At the time Golden Sun was one of Nintendo's prominent IPs, and it would've made sense to promote it. Isaac also definitely could've brought a lot in terms of moveset at the time that he wouldn't necessarily bring now.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Saw this in one of my discords. Are there any characters not in Smash that you feel like 100% deserve to be in Smash. Like there are no counterpoints(or valid ones anyway, not that dumb **** where we had someone screaming that we cant have 2 DLC characters wearing trench coats in the game), no obvious reasons from them to not be in, and it feels like the only thing keeping them out is the fact they just haven't been picked yet. Overall, this character really should be here and them not being in it feels wrong.

I'm really not sure there is one. Inkling was the only slam dunk for me right off the bat and she was the first one taken care of. Interested in hearing opinions on this because it feels like all the must haves might be covered

Tons of characters. Like, dozens and dozens and dozens. This is pretty much the main qualifier for me to support a character, and I support a ****load of them.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

deserve? lara croft, sephiroth, dante and maybe shantae.

lara THE female character of gaming. lara has more movies than some smash character have games. sephiroth biggest villain in videogames not in. dante has defined the action game/ spectacle fighting genre and is its creator essentially. shantae every indie game character strives to have the longevity, fanbase, and sucess that this one has. lots of indie games draw design and level designs from shantae games.

dont really think there are any Nintendo characters that are to the level of deserving. all the icons that appear in mainline games are in. i think elma and rex are strong wants tho.

Lara and Shantae...still a yes

I mean no offense by this, but I really do think people overrate Shantae as an upgrade candidate, as well as a pick for Smash overall. Seems as though folks oversell her.

Sans, Cuphead, and Shovel Knight are bigger names despite not being around nearly as long. The most they got were Mii Costumes. I just can’t see Shantae being added over them.

I see where you’re coming from, but Shantae is still a big indie name people wanna see in Smash (idk whether or not she’s equal to or bigger than Sans and Shovel Knight overall, but she’s definitely a huge indie draw)

 

[Bee Card]

We all now the true biggest villain who isn't in smash is Wart

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Saw this in one of my discords. Are there any characters not in Smash that you feel like 100% deserve to be in Smash. Like there are no counterpoints(or valid ones anyway, not that dumb **** where we had someone screaming that we cant have 2 DLC characters wearing trench coats in the game), no obvious reasons from them to not be in, and it feels like the only thing keeping them out is the fact they just haven't been picked yet. Overall, this character really should be here and them not being in it feels wrong.

I'm really not sure there is one. Inkling was the only slam dunk for me right off the bat and she was the first one taken care of. Interested in hearing opinions on this because it feels like all the must haves might be covered

At this point I feel like Xenoblade is sorely due for another character. Any character at this point. It's one of Nintendo's most prominent series given that it can take a headline spot in a Direct, and it's especially egregious given that Nintendo's lesser, more dormant series have upwards of 2-3 characters.

Professor Layton as a third party should've happened in Sm4sh given his prominence to Nintendo and gaming in general at the time. If there was a time it was then, when the series had strong momentum. Nintendo and Level-5 are hella close, and there's been expressed interest in this happening since 2008, so it's absolutely baffling how it hasn't happened yet.

Dixie Kong could've definitely been an Isabelle-esque semi-clone of Diddy, and I would say she's the only real remaining Nintendo All-Star not playable currently.

Those are the only three that really come to mind for me.

Lara and Shantae...still a yes

I see where you’re coming from, but Shantae is still a big indie name people wanna see in Smash (idk whether or not she’s equal to or bigger than Sans and Shovel Knight overall, but she’s definitely a huge indie draw)

Jones wasn't saying she isn't demanded. She certainly is one of the more popular picks in the core fanbase, and I don't think anyone is going to argue that.

What Jones is arguing is that her supporters exaggerate her chances of getting upgraded.

 

[Will]

At this point I feel like Xenoblade is sorely due for another character. Any character at this point.

now its reyn time

 

[Lacrimosa]

We all now the true biggest villain who isn't in smash is Wart

Tom Nook.

Friggin money.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

now its reyn time

Honestly?

Give him to me.

NOW IT'S REYN TIME

 

[Knight Dude]

Saw this in one of my discords. Are there any characters not in Smash that you feel like 100% deserve to be in Smash. Like there are no counterpoints(or valid ones anyway, not that dumb **** where we had someone screaming that we cant have 2 DLC characters wearing trench coats in the game), no obvious reasons from them to not be in, and it feels like the only thing keeping them out is the fact they just haven't been picked yet. Overall, this character really should be here and them not being in it feels wrong.

I'm really not sure there is one. Inkling was the only slam dunk for me right off the bat and she was the first one taken care of. Interested in hearing opinions on this because it feels like all the must haves might be covered

Ryu Hayabusa. Dante. Jin Kazama.

But really most characters I like can be applied to this list because I like cool characters who do cool ****.

 

[Us3inMN]

Tom Nook.

Friggin money.

Nook's Cranny is unfair!
Tom Nook is in there!
Standing at the concession!
Plotting his oppression!

Also,

*ahem*

WHEN IS 7.0 COMING OUT BYLETH AND THE CUPHEAD MII COSTUME CANNOT WAIT ANY LONGER PLEASE JUST RELEASE ALREADY

 

[Diddy Kong]

Saw this in one of my discords. Are there any characters not in Smash that you feel like 100% deserve to be in Smash. Like there are no counterpoints(or valid ones anyway, not that dumb **** where we had someone screaming that we cant have 2 DLC characters wearing trench coats in the game), no obvious reasons from them to not be in, and it feels like the only thing keeping them out is the fact they just haven't been picked yet. Overall, this character really should be here and them not being in it feels wrong.

I'm really not sure there is one. Inkling was the only slam dunk for me right off the bat and she was the first one taken care of. Interested in hearing opinions on this because it feels like all the must haves might be covered

Dixie Kong and maybe Toad..but Toad is already represented somewhat.

Other than that, it gets quite personal. I mean, a Zelda and Kirby character are quite overdue, but the pool is either too small or too big, depending how you look at it.

Then there's Isaac, but Golden Sun is just a popular classic unfortunately.

So yeah, Dixie Kong probably.

 

[Bee Card]

Saw this in one of my discords. Are there any characters not in Smash that you feel like 100% deserve to be in Smash. Like there are no counterpoints(or valid ones anyway, not that dumb **** where we had someone screaming that we cant have 2 DLC characters wearing trench coats in the game), no obvious reasons from them to not be in, and it feels like the only thing keeping them out is the fact they just haven't been picked yet. Overall, this character really should be here and them not being in it feels wrong.

I'm really not sure there is one. Inkling was the only slam dunk for me right off the bat and she was the first one taken care of. Interested in hearing opinions on this because it feels like all the must haves might be covered

For me the most """deserving"""/lacking one character is Arthur.
I also think that there's a lack of Sega and also arcade representations (but it's just my opinion) from series like Space Harrier, Golden Axe, Wonder Boy, Frogger, Bubble Bobble, Dig Dug, etc.
I'd think Space Harrier could be a very good character cause he can add another Arcade, Sega retro, shooting game and cult rep into the game.

 

[Ridrool64]

Saw this in one of my discords. Are there any characters not in Smash that you feel like 100% deserve to be in Smash. Like there are no counterpoints(or valid ones anyway, not that dumb **** where we had someone screaming that we cant have 2 DLC characters wearing trench coats in the game), no obvious reasons from them to not be in, and it feels like the only thing keeping them out is the fact they just haven't been picked yet. Overall, this character really should be here and them not being in it feels wrong.

I'm really not sure there is one. Inkling was the only slam dunk for me right off the bat and she was the first one taken care of. Interested in hearing opinions on this because it feels like all the must haves might be covered

Toad has more than earned his spot among the greats. He's in several iconic games, has his own games that don't feature Mario now (in a significant role), and has international notability as well as widespread recognizability for his iconic debut as well as his continued prominence in Mario media. I mean I guess Sakurai still believes him to be best as Peach's neutral special because he's never gotten rid of a special move outside of 3DS shenanigans and Rock Smash, but still.

Back during Brawl and Smash 4, I would have said that Paper Mario earned this easily and never looked back. But considering his most recent two releases, he fails the obvious reason check, as the lacking reception of them might have gotten him passed over. There's also whiners about 3 Marios, but if we can have 3 Links, then that's a "two trench coats" thing.

While there are third party characters who I think have earned their spot (Crash being chief among them, as well as Steve, and to varying degrees of lesser extents Heihachi, Travis, and maybe some kind of puzzle character), I wouldn't quite say that they're as easy to get as first parties at this point, so I think they're inherently more justified exclusions (maybe getting the rights to them was too hard, maybe the acting company decided not to go through with it) than first parties.

 

[Bee Card]

Tom Nook.

Friggin money.

Ah yes you're right, he's the tru3 vil4in ! No less indeed has to be expected from the embodiment of the capitalism

 

[Schnee117]

The biggest villain not in Smash is Wyzen.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If I have to toss bias completely out the window...
I believe a Golden Sun character, like Isaac, should have been in this game a long time ago.

I mean, before Brawl, was Kid Icarus really that much more popular than Golden Sun? (This coming from someone who has Kid Icarus as one of his top 3 favorite non-smash Nintendo IP's).

And up to Smash 4, I always thought Little Mac should have been... From the very beginning. Like, up until Smash 64, there were already 4 Punch Out! games if we include the 2 arcades. That's twice as many as Captain Falcon or Ness had back then.

Wasn't Pit a pretty big request back then? People kept telling me that was a factor, though idk how much it could stack to GS as I'm convinced GS was like ARMS, only really got big because there wasn't much else at the time

 

[Eldrake]

The biggest villain not in Smash is Wyzen.

Spoiler: Asura's Wrath spoiler

Pssh, Wyzen got nothing on Chakravartin, who dwarfs galaxies.

 

[N3ON]

Wasn't Pit a pretty big request back then? People kept telling me that was a factor, though idk how much it could stack to GS as I'm convinced GS was like ARMS, only really got big because there wasn't much else at the time

Within that GBA launch window, there was an F-Zero, Mario Kart, Advance Wars, Wario Land, Mario port, and new Sonic and Castlevanias, and GS still managed to find success. More than several of those titles. It's not the first game that was a fluke, it was the third. The second was also a success, and that was released in the middle of the system's life.

 

[Kokiden]

Gotta say, I've got such mixed feelings about Joker. I've really tried to be good with him, and I AM pretty decent, but he just doesn't seem like the invincible powerhouse that people make him out to be. His Nair and Dair have some uncomfortable startup and he seems to struggle against any characters with reasonable speed that can out-reach his little dagger. At the same time though, I've been wrecked so many times by the absolutely OP combination of his frame data and Arsene's obscene power boost. Also, tournament results definitely lean more towards him being broken, though literally ANYONE Mkleo plays can look broken. Remember Ike? (Though Marss' ZSS actually beat MKLeo's Joker at G7) Bottomline, I could totally see him getting nerfed but I'm still on the fence as to whether he genuinely deserves it.

He doesn’t.

Like you said, he doesn’t feel like the invincible powerhouse people make him out to be. People see one guy doing exceptionally well and jump on the “please nerf him” bandwagon.

 

[Us3inMN]

Within that GBA launch window, there was an F-Zero, Mario Kart, Advance Wars, Wario Land, Mario port, and new Sonic and Castlevanias, and GS still managed to find success. More than several of those titles. It's not the first game that was a fluke, it was the third. The second was also a success, and that was released in the middle of the system's life.

This is probably a stupid question, but what's GS?

 

[N3ON]

This is probably a stupid question, but what's GS?

Golden Sun, Isaac's series.

 

[Opossum]

Dr. Robotnik is well known but i wouldnt say he's at sepiroth's level due to the other factors i listed. and the fact that sephiroth is a much more compelling character than eggman/Robotnik ever has been.

I guarantee you more people are familiar with Eggman than they are with Sephiroth, just like more people know Sonic than Cloud. Eggman's by far the bigger character.

 

[Dukemon102]

Besides Fire Emblem and Pokémon. Is there any first party game Nintendo would want to promote? Astral Chain got spirited post-launch. Animal Crossing and Xenoblade DF already got their main characters in.
Anyone I'm missing?

 

[N3ON]

Besides Fire Emblem and Pokémon. Is there any first party game Nintendo would want to promote? Astral Chain got spirited post-launch. Animal Crossing and Xenoblade DF already got their main characters in.
Anyone I'm missing?

Promotion generally seems to be at the behest of the parties other than Nintendo. Nintendo has never pushed the most recent Zelda character, or, like, made sure to allocate a spot for ARMS. Right now it seems like it's more a TPC/IS thing.

But it'd be interesting if that changed, I guess.

 

[Ben Holt]

I just woke up. Is Byleth out?

 

[Jomosensual]

I just woke up. Is Byleth out?

About 2:30 hours it seems

 

[DanganZilla5]

Saw this in one of my discords. Are there any characters not in Smash that you feel like 100% deserve to be in Smash. Like there are no counterpoints(or valid ones anyway, not that dumb **** where we had someone screaming that we cant have 2 DLC characters wearing trench coats in the game), no obvious reasons from them to not be in, and it feels like the only thing keeping them out is the fact they just haven't been picked yet. Overall, this character really should be here and them not being in it feels wrong.

I'm really not sure there is one. Inkling was the only slam dunk for me right off the bat and she was the first one taken care of. Interested in hearing opinions on this because it feels like all the must haves might be covered

The character that sticks out to me the most is Isaac. He should have been in the game by now. And there are some characters like Lara Croft that I feel should be in Smash, but then I feel that people will say that is not realistic because there are only so many chances for a Square Enix character, or something to that effect. Other characters I can think off the top of my head are Dante, Professor Layton, and Shantae or Quote (I don't think they are likely, but it's about time Smash got an indie character and Cave Story in particular is important to the indie side of the industry, and thus, important for the whole industry).

btw, I haven't been active a lot on this board for the past couple weeks because Byleth left a sour taste in my mouth, especially since I was really expecting another character (My fault, I know) and the wait for FP5's reveal was already painful, but now that I have to wait even more for someone I somewhat care about, it just left me unmotivated and tired of speculation.

But now I'm back, maybe not in full swing, but it helps that I've accepted Byleth now and am anticipating his arrival tonight (I'll keep mashing that update button starting around 8:30 because Hero was supposed to come out at 9:00, but at least for me he was released 30 minutes early so I'm hoping the same thing happens for Byleth).

As for my thoughts on the recent conversations: I don't think Waluigi is completely impossible, but assist trophy upgrades are still a hard sell for me, even though first party characters are back on the table. I feel like assists are possible, but with their role in the game, I can't see them being a priority. Sure, that wouldn't stop Sakurai from adding anybody. If he wants to add someone, he will add them. It's his game. But without any precedence, it's hard to say with confidence that even at least one assist trophy will be upgraded.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Dr. Robotnik is well known but i wouldnt say he's at sepiroth's level due to the other factors i listed. and the fact that sephiroth is a much more compelling character than eggman/Robotnik ever has been.

Eggman (and Sonic overall) is way bigger than Sephiroth and the rest of Final Fantasy. As for the compelling part, depends on the person (personally I prefer Eggman due to actually knowing him)

I just woke up. Is Byleth out?

Almost there