Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Rie Sonomura]

Or someone more likely like Agumon or Nightmare if not Lloyd or Heihachi.

Someone from Dark Souls could be another option

 

[NurpNurp]

Yeah

so was

I don't think they're anywhere near comparable to each other to be fair

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Someone from Dark Souls could be another option

I knew I was forgetting someone! Can't believe I forgot Chosen Undead/Solaire.

 

[Jomosensual]

Yeah

so was

Big difference here. One was one of the most requested Smash characters ever for a long period of time. The other was deemed not having not enough value to make a remaster by their own home company recently. Not comparable at all

 

[AceAttorney9000]

We're getting a Bandai Namco character from a FromSoftware game.
We're also getting a Sony character.

Spoiler: Plot Twist

... they're one and the same.

Fun Fact: Demon's Souls was published by Bandai Namco for its PAL release.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Yeah

so was

Banjo niche?

If he were so niche as you describe then why was heavy fan demand the reason for his return?

Bad comparison. Apples and oranges dude.

 

[RileyXY1]

Yeah

so was

Well, considering that her own creators think that her game is not profitable enough to warrant a remaster, I don't think that she's likely at all.

 

[NurpNurp]

We're getting a Bandai Namco character from a FromSoftware game.
We're also getting a Sony character.

Spoiler: Plot Twist

... they're one and the same.

Fun Fact: Demon's Souls was published by Bandai Namco for its PAL release.

If it's Sony specifically, wouldn't a Hunter from Bloodborne make more sense? Sony is still banking on that release half a decade later, if they gave Nintendo anything, I'd wager that or Kratos

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Someone from Dark Souls could be another option

Or Katamari! (Which people seem to never remember for some reason)


So I was watching Blackadder last night and it had what I'd basically its' own representation of the Smash Speculation cycle xP

In The Black Adder (the first series) Episode 3 The Archbishop, it is known that Richard IV will order "accidental" deaths of Archbishops who double cross him. Bladrick, tells Prince Edmund that an "informed source" with a somewhat questionable track record told him that Prince Harry (Prince Edmund's brother, who he's been trying to get rid of in his quest to become king) will be chosen to be the next one. Edmund insists that it must be true, and goes to King Richard's court meeting excited and expecting to see Prince Harry chosen. HE is chosen instead, leading to intense disappointment from him and his buddies.

It pretty much mirrors a basic model of the Smash speculation cycle perfectly. Baldrick is the Sabi/Vergeben/Fatmonice, Prince Edmund is the fanbase, and Richard IV is Sakurai, revealing the character. It's perfect!

 

[Faso115]

We're getting a Bandai Namco character from a FromSoftware game.
We're also getting a Sony character.

Spoiler: Plot Twist

... they're one and the same.

Fun Fact: Demon's Souls was published by Bandai Namco for its PAL release.

Heresy opinion: All the Demon Souls and Dark Souls protags look the same to me

 

[NurpNurp]

Heresy opinion: All the Demon Souls and Dark Souls protags look the same to me

I don't think anyone will fault you for that. They're dudes in European armor, they do look super similar

 

[AceAttorney9000]

If it's Sony specifically, wouldn't a Hunter from Bloodborne make more sense? Sony is still banking on that release half a decade later, if they gave Nintendo anything, I'd wager that or Kratos

I went with Demon's Souls for the sake of the joke. Bloodborne wasn't published by Bandai Namco.

For real though, if Sony ever does get a character... I could see the Bloodborne Hunter being possible, if not the most likely.

Or Katamari! (Which people seem to never remember for some reason)

Sorry, the Prince of All Cosmos makes a cameo in Pac-Man's taunt.
That means it's completely impossible for Sakurai to make him a playable DLC character.

 

[RileyXY1]

Sorry, the Prince of All Cosmos makes a cameo in Pac-Man's taunt.
That means it's completely impossible for Sakurai to make him a playable DLC character.

If that's true, then Heihachi is out too.

 

[NurpNurp]

If that's true, then Heihachi is out too.

Personally, I think Devil Jin is more likely for a Tekken rep

 

[AceAttorney9000]

If that's true, then Heihachi is out too.

... I wasn't being serious about that. At all.

Saying Heihachi, Prince, or any other Bandai Namco character can't be playable because they make a sprite cameo in a taunt is honestly one of the dumbest arguments I've ever seen for why a character can't be playable.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

I went with Demon's Souls for the sake of the joke. Bloodborne wasn't published by Bandai Namco.

For real though, if Sony ever does get a character... I could see the Bloodborne Hunter being possible, if not the most likely.


Sorry, the Prince of All Cosmos makes a cameo in Pac-Man's taunt.
That means it's completely impossible for Sakurai to make him a playable DLC character.

Judging by the emote I can tell you're joking, but him being in the taunt did keep him and Heihachi out of the running for the initial fighter's pass (which doesn't matter now, but still, it showed that they weren't being considered at the time), but now it's anyone's game! :3

 

[Zubyyyy]

Here's my 'realistic' wishlist for FP2. Things that I can see actually happening, with a little bit of wishful thinking. Nothing too extreme, but overall something I would be really pleased if it happened. Included Mii Fighters, music, etc.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

I think the idea of "Too niche for Smash" is a bit ridiculous when Smash is a celebration of gaming, even on smaller or lesser known franchises. And really I wish we can get rid of the notion that "Niche=bad" when it isn't bad and more niche franchises getting into Smash is not a bad thing or "An impossibility".


And really, I'd rather see characters like KOS-MOS or Reimu getting into Smash than ones like Doom Guy or Geno since everyone expects the latter constantly(Even though Doom Guy is basically deconfirmed I am still using him as an example) that people make this little bubble thinking only a small handful of characters are possible and get surprised when characters like Hero and Terry pop up.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Here's my 'realistic' wishlist for FP2. Things that I can see actually happening, with a little bit of wishful thinking. Nothing too extreme, but overall something I would be really pleased if it happened. Included Mii Fighters, music, etc.

View attachment 259979

>Jade from Beyond Good and Evil as a premium music track included costume

impeccable taste, good sir. Sadly I don’t think it’ll happen cause BGAE2 is super bastardized from its predecessor last I checked... not happy with its development

 

[clearandsweet]

Somehow whenever we talk about never evers, everyone conveniently forgets about Isaac.

This pisses me off to no end.

Geno and Isaac were both requested since Brawl. Go back and check the threads on this very website. The revisionism of statements saying otherwise is galling.

Plus:

• Isaac is first party.
• Isaac is actually known and requested in Europe as his game was released there. Geno is not.
• Golden Sun likely has a game on the way sometime in the next two years and creators who want to do more with the franchise. Geno does not.

Not only is Isaac or some other Adept from Golden Sun as much if not more of a fan-favorite, he's also infinitely more likely to actually be one of the next six fighters.

 

[SKX31]

I actually did know of King of Fighters for Girls thanks to Twitter, but not the other projects. So Terry as a pick for the Chinese market (whenever they release Smash over there) does give him more credibility.

As far as the Chinese situation goes, it can be difficult to keep track of. There's the official Chinese Switch (partnered with Tencent, released December last year) and then there are imported consoles / games. The Chinese Switch can play imported cartridges and download locally, but officially released versions are exclusive (likely because official Switch games there cost $42 instead of $60). If you wanna release a game officially there, you gotta go through the onerous state machinery for approval.

This is the reason why official releases there are so few currently - there's only one game officially released (NSMBU) right now, but with many more in the pipeline. They had filmed MK8DX and Odyssey ads in time for the Chinese New Year holiday last weekend; problem is, the Chinese State has to publish the list of "Approved foreign games" (there's a separate queue for Chinese games) before an official release can be made. So even though those two games have reportedly gotten the okay they have to wait until the list is officially published. Nintendo has announced ten first party games slated for official release there (counting Lets Go as two games) and submitted six of them so far.

I saw ZhugeEx guess "late 2020 or early 2021" for Smash's official release there - and I'm inclined to agree with him. Since Smash is not one of the first 10 Nintendo games there but is indirectly promoted on Chinese social media (the Smash renders were used when introducing the Switch). Also, Smash already has a fair share of franchises (playable or Mii), that are well known there: as well as Rabbids / Rayman.

The likely timing's right smack dab in the middle of FP2, and the megacorp Tencent's really hugging Nintendo at the moment. Thing is: The list of Chinese favorites is surprisingly broad. It runs the gamut from mega-hits like LoL, via smaller sensations like Reimu to stuff not even officially released there like Phoenix Wright (Ace Attorney has inspired at least one film and another game in China, and Ace Attorney has a niche, but hardcore following there). Tencent has a lot of connections and can help if Nintendo / Sakurai wanted to reach a certain company. It's not really narrowing down anything, but timing the Chinese Smash release with a character big there would make a lot of sense if they're aiming for a big splash. If being the keyword. - but it is possibile.

I've speculated in the past that they could bundle FP1 with the official Chinese release (because it includes Terry, etc.), but I could be off there. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.

All in all, there's a pretty decent chance it happens, but I could see it not happening too. Not betting just yet unless something starts pointing in that direction hardcore.

 

[Sysreq]

Could you imagine if Geno got Mii-costumed with the FP6 and somehow Crash got deconfirmed by Activision? That'd be a kick in the crotch to speculation. No more Doomguy, Crash, or Geno to put into hypothetical passes.

Golden Sun likely has a game on the way sometime in the next two years and creators who want to do more with the franchise.

Oracle, tell me: will Zack and Wiki get a new game soon?

 

[RoboFist]

This pisses me off to no end.

Geno and Isaac were both requested since Brawl. Go back and check the threads on this very website. The revisionism of statements saying otherwise is galling.

Plus:

• Isaac is first party.
• Isaac is actually known and requested in Europe as his game was released there. Geno is not.
• Golden Sun likely has a game on the way sometime in the next two years and creators who want to do more with the franchise. Geno does not.

Not only is Isaac or some other Adept from Golden Sun as much if not more of a fan-favorite, he's also infinitely more likely to actually be one of the next six fighters.

He's an AT, man. For a lot of people, that book is closed. If Geno was an AT, yeah a lot of the fanboys would still be screaming about his chances, but everyone else trying to speculate rationally would say he's dead in the water, too. Same with Shadow and Waluigi (yes, really).

Fingers crossed for you guys for the next game, and I mean that sincerely. I also loved Golden Sun and I know how hard you guys have been campaigning for Isaac's inclusion. But people aren't "forgetting" him.

 

[Lionfranky]

I am not bringing up any Japan argument. All I’m saying is Nintendo are a lot more likely going to attempt to get DoomSlayer than they are Chief. The only reason people think Chief has a shot nowadays is because he would be a good pack ender when Byleth proves that Nintendo don’t care. Using banjo as a point doesn’t really count due to the fact that he is a dead character who people were requesting to join. Microsoft weren’t doing anything with him aside from the occasional merchandising so he was up for the taking. Chief literally is the face of a rival console who is as relevant as ever. I find it really unlikely that Nintendo are going to try to get a rival console mascot in smash. I can see Crash joining because he isn’t actually owned by Sony despite being associated with it. When it comes to Chief I feel people only decide to look on one side of the fence instead of looking at why he is unlikely too just because they want this massive triple a gaming mascot in smash and decide to view it as likely without looking down all avenues

People were very dubious about Banjo's chance even after Phil Spencer's word. After that? People bring all kinds of excuse why he was picked all that despite previously perceived obstacle. This is the same case people argue over Geno who is even more dead and obscure than Banjo. And yet, Cloud who is much bigger deal than Geno got in. If dead characters were pieces of cake to obtain, Geno should've been playable long ago. I know that Sakurai said this in funny way, but he actually promoted Xbox during Banjo introduction. Clearly, it's not clear cut as many people assumed. Sakurai said that making a deal with Microsoft was easier than SquareEnix.

 

[Dinoman96]

A lot of people also forget there was a brief moment in time where Krystal was a highly requested/speculated Smash candidate, around the same level as Ridley, Mega Man, Geno, etc

 

[Deleted member]

Let's say that the Fighter's Pass also came with one assist trophy per pack. Who would you have picked as the five assist trophies? The only rules is that the character must not be someone already physically present during any stage or animation (spirits are fine though), and the assist trophy must originate from the same series as the pack's character.

That's kinda hard for some of them, hmm...

Joker - Akechi Goro (the Phantom Thieves are present randomly on the stage, but Akechi is not one of the ones who appears. Being the foil for the main character, he's the best option).

Hero - Instead of going Luminary or Erdrick, they went 'hero' in order to rep the series as a whole instead of any one particular game (despite the spirits being mostly XI). To keep with that, I'd say a common monster throughout the series (but not Slime since he was a Spirit) should be the trophy. With that said, I'd say Metal King Slime.

Banjo-Kazooie - Gruntilda I guess?

Terry - A character from Fatal Fury that isn't one of the characters from King of Fighters who can show up on the stage I guess.

Byleth - I don't remember who shows up in Gareg Mach for sure, but I'm guessing the 3 house leaders all show along with Lady Rhea; all of whom would be good choices. So I guess the options would be Seteth, Geralt, Death Knight, Flame Emperor, or Cyrus as all those are known no matter which house you choose.

Piranha Plant - King Boo could be a fun assist trophy. Floats around, randomly possessing oppponents to mess with their control scheme or something temporarilly.

 

[Herocin]

People were very dubious about Banjo's chance even after Phil Spencer's word. After that? People bring all kinds of excuse why he was picked all that despite previously perceived obstacle. This is the same case people argue over Geno who is even more dead and obscure than Banjo. And yet, Cloud who is much bigger deal than Geno got in. If dead characters were pieces of cake to obtain, Geno should've been playable long ago. I know that Sakurai said this in funny way, but he actually promoted Xbox during Banjo introduction. Clearly, it's not clear cut as many people assumed. Sakurai said that making a deal with Microsoft was easier than SquareEnix.

Geno isn’t a piece of cake to obtain because he is obviously owned by someone who doesn’t or at least didn’t want to play ball. You can’t say just because one company is stingy that it means all of them are. And just because Sakurai promoted X-Box doesn’t mean Nintendo did. Nintendo are even less likely to do that because they have a ship they need to keep afloat. Like I said it doesn’t seem likely that Nintendo are going to get Chief. He is a mascot of a rival system who is also still receiving games. And even then just because Microsoft played ball with Banjo it doesn’t mean they’d play ball with Chief as they are in two completely different scenarios. One is dead, other is alive, one is a mascot, one is more associated with the company trying to get them etc etc. A lot of these arguments just make you seem like you are arguing for Chief just because you want him in the game and if so you shouldn’t be making assumptions based on bias. You should at least acknowledge what he has going against him instead of intentionally ignoring it and coming up with arguments that don’t apply much in the first place

 

[RoboFist]

I am not bringing up any Japan argument. All I’m saying is Nintendo are a lot more likely going to attempt to get DoomSlayer than they are Chief. The only reason people think Chief has a shot nowadays is because he would be a good pack ender when Byleth proves that Nintendo don’t care. Using banjo as a point doesn’t really count due to the fact that he is a dead character who people were requesting to join. Microsoft weren’t doing anything with him aside from the occasional merchandising so he was up for the taking. Chief literally is the face of a rival console who is as relevant as ever. I find it really unlikely that Nintendo are going to try to get a rival console mascot in smash. I can see Crash joining because he isn’t actually owned by Sony despite being associated with it. When it comes to Chief I feel people only decide to look on one side of the fence instead of looking at why he is unlikely too just because they want this massive triple a gaming mascot in smash and decide to view it as likely without looking down all avenues

There's a massive, enormous caveat that people are either forgetting or outright ignoring when it comes to Banjo's inclusion: he's not just a third-party character owned by a rival company like Master Chief or Kratos. Rare was once a second-party, in-house studio for Nintendo. They did so much for Nintendo for so long that the two were practically synonymous back in the day. Donkey Kong's redesign that has become the norm for the character to this day? Rare's design.

Banjo and Kazooie were, for a time, Nintendo icons. This is why so many people wanted to see them in Smash, as a sort of homecoming.

So every time I see people justifying mascots for rival companies and using BK as their argument's backbone, it baffles me. They have a long history with Nintendo that was frustratingly cut short, Master Chief doesn't.

 

[NurpNurp]

Let's say that the Fighter's Pass also came with one assist trophy per pack. Who would you have picked as the five assist trophies? The only rules is that the character must not be someone already physically present during any stage or animation (spirits are fine though), and the assist trophy must originate from the same series as the pack's character.

Joker - Twin Wardens. Probably more so than even Akechi, I think the Wardens would be an interesting AT, mostly because they're not as movement focused as Akechi, and could have a variety of skills like Riki. If Akechi were to show up, I'd expect him to be a Joker Echo or semi-clone

Hero and Banjo - I don't know nearly enough about either series to make an educated so I guess King Slime and Grunty? Maybe Jinjos for Banjo?

Terry - K'. I still don't know why K' wasn't a cameo on the KOF stage, although maybe he's less important than I remember him.

Byleth - Thales. I sort of imagine Thales like Majora's Mask's Moon AT with him dropping a pillar of light on the stage and doing ridiculous damage to everything around it, even the person who summoned it

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I wish spirits didn’t deconfirm characters...maybe Challenger Pack 2 will stop those evil spirits deform crushing the dreams of many

 

[Michael the Spikester]

A lot of people also forget there was a brief moment in time where Krystal was a highly requested/speculated Smash candidate, around the same level as Ridley, Mega Man, Geno, etc

Why she almost got into Brawl but then Sakurai decided to throw inwho was demanded more and easier and faster to make basing offand

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I wish spirits didn’t deconfirm characters...maybe Challenger Pack 2 will stop those evil spirits deform crushing the dreams of many

I think at least one base game Spirit may be promoted soon. Event Spirits after release are screwed unfortunately imo

 

[Loungemen]

I guess I'll play a game of speculation for the second fighter pass. Not counting spirits or Mii costumes, my predictions are:

1. Tifa
2. Lloyd or Yuri
3. Cinderace or Urshifu
4. Crash
5. Arle
The 6th fighter will probably be a first party whether or not we get a new Nintendo title in 2020-2021.

 

[doomedtacox]

Holy hell no direct tweet today. When is this general direct coming!!??

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Holy hell no direct tweet today. When is this general direct coming!!??

Next month, of course

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Holy hell no direct tweet today. When is this general direct coming!!??

My bet is either next week or week after otherwise probably waiting maybe March/April.

 

[Ridrool64]

If the next Challenger Pack's newcomer doesn't have a cinematic Final Smash AGAIN, then I don't care who they are. If they do again then I'm convinced somewhere along the line the team ran out of ideas for Final Smashes.

Only counts if they're as blatantly shoehorned as Terry's, though. Byleth's is also shoehorned in but at least kinda makes sense. I would say that Joker and Banjo were definitely cases where it at least thematically fits as a cinematic instead of not cutting away from gameplay, though Joker has the only one that needed to be exactly that. Hero I'm torn on. So like, if Arle and Crash had a cinematic I'd be mad, but with somebody like Sol Badguy, I'd say that it just has to be that.

I just want a projectile. Or even a combo rush. ****, bring back transformations. I don't care. Just please not another goddamn cutscene.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Let's say that the Fighter's Pass also came with one assist trophy per pack. Who would you have picked as the five assist trophies? The only rules is that the character must not be someone already physically present during any stage or animation (spirits are fine though), and the assist trophy must originate from the same series as the pack's character.

Joker: Jack Frost "comes with a skill"
Hero: Dracky
Banjo & Kazooie: Jamjars
Terry: Ukee
Byleth: Fire Emblem is lame

 

[NurpNurp]

If the next Challenger Pack's newcomer doesn't have a cinematic Final Smash AGAIN, then I don't care who they are. If they do again then I'm convinced somewhere along the line the team ran out of ideas for Final Smashes.

Only counts if they're as blatantly shoehorned as Terry's, though. Byleth's is also shoehorned in but at least kinda makes sense. I would say that Joker and Banjo were definitely cases where it at least thematically fits as a cinematic instead of not cutting away from gameplay, though Joker has the only one that needed to be exactly that. Hero I'm torn on. So like, if Arle and Crash had a cinematic I'd be mad, but with somebody like Sol Badguy, I'd say that it just has to be that.

I just want a projectile. Or even a combo rush. ****, bring back transformations. I don't care. Just please not another goddamn cutscene.

Sol could have his Install as a transformation FS but that's entirely unlikely. It would most likely be his Instant Kill which is... well... another cutscene

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Here's my 'realistic' wishlist for FP2. Things that I can see actually happening, with a little bit of wishful thinking. Nothing too extreme, but overall something I would be really pleased if it happened. Included Mii Fighters, music, etc.

View attachment 259979

Layton and Phoenix double reveal! You got two of my favorites, plus I love Travis, hollow knight and Tom Nook echo.

also the thought of a Untiled Goose mii costume is hilarious, have no idea how that would work but I’m down for the idea.