Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Troykv]

I gotchu.

A mage besides Robin would be preferable to four Marth movesets any day. I think we can all agree on that. After that, it just becomes a question of which one. Micaiah is really high up on that list for me.

Yes! I would love to have another mage, it just needs a different approach to the stats compared with Robin

I remember I did some years ago a Micaiah moveset for Source Gaming, but was designed with Smash 4 in mind, maybe I can change some stuff.

 

[Idon]

400 dollars for your letters to look cool

True, but the template that's going around comes with it in a file. While I don't condone any illegal activity, I find it best not to look a gift horse in the mouth especially when the gift is nice text that costs 400 buckaroos.

 

[Guynamednelson]

dude, this is Smash

any character will cause a flame war

Flamewars over Playstation association
Flamewars over Western unfamiliarity...or being familiar with its composer
Flamewars over not being Steve
Flamewars over not being as mainstream/fan requested as what you expected
Byleth: Flamewars over being more FE or not a house leader

Flamewars over the deconfirmed being reconfirmed will be nothing.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

So since Nintendo provided a list of characters for Sakurai to pick from for FP1, I wonder if the characters for FP2 are some of the left overs that he did consider, but decided against for FP1?

 

[Troykv]

So since Nintendo provided a list of characters for Sakurai to pick from for FP1, I wonder if the characters for FP2 are some of the left overs that he did consider, but decided against for FP1?

It probably does, it must also included new characters that they can promote like a Last Gen Pokémon.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Flamewars over Playstation association
Flamewars over Western unfamiliarity...or being familiar with its composer
Flamewars over not being Steve
Flamewars over not being as mainstream/fan requested as what you expected
Byleth: Flamewars over being more FE or not a house leader

Flamewars over the deconfirmed being reconfirmed will be nothing.

This is why I know whoever these six characters are, they will cause flame wars and controversy by merely existing. Even if the main six are the most heavily requested characters around, people will still find reasons to whine.

 

[Deleted member]

This will be the next Smash trailer.

 

[Pinguino21v]

Geno was a pretty big request back in Brawl. His demand was almost as big (and potentially bigger) as the likes of Ridley and K. Rool. I wasn't active during Smash 4 speculation so I cannot speak to that but his presence during the speculation days in Brawl definately left a big footprint. He was one of the top requested characters in the polls for Brawl along with Ridley, K. Rool, Dedede, Diddy Kong and others.

That's why I said Smash 4 and not Brawl. Someone less partial than Fatman made a nice writing about the history of Geno support on this board a few months ago. It was clear that his fanbase, while well present during Brawl, disappeared totally in Smash 4, only to being resurrected by Sakurai statement.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

That's why I said Smash 4 and not Brawl. Someone less partial than Fatman made a nice writing about the history of Geno support on this board a few months ago. It was clear that his fanbase, while well present during Brawl, disappeared totally in Smash 4, only to being resurrected by Sakurai statement.

I remember there being some decent amount support for Geno during the Smash 4 days especially after the ballet was announced.

 

[Troykv]

That's why I said Smash 4 and not Brawl. Someone less partial than Fatman made a nice writing about the history of Geno support on this board a few months ago. It was clear that his fanbase, while well present during Brawl, disappeared totally in Smash 4, only to being resurrected by Sakurai statement.

This makes me wonder something, how even was created the Geno support anyway? o.o

 

[TheCJBrine]

Word of advice: you're not gonna be able to convince anyone with indirect responses and accusations. I wanted to know and understand your opinion, despite my dislike for the character. You had a pretty good opportunity to get your thoughts out there, but instead you chose to repeat yourself and accuse anyone asking for further detail of ill intent. I'd say it's an opportunity squandered.

That said, no ill will towards you and I understand why you might feel that it might have been bait, especially coming from someone you know hates Steve, but people aren't always like that.

I understand, and I’m sorry.

I’ll go ahead and try to answer it better, since admittedly I may have done a poor job explaining it the first time around and again I’m sorry for taking you and anyone else wrong:

Spoiler

I figured a mii wouldn’t look as good as a full fighter in Steve’s case since the limbs would be unfaithful to Minecraft’s style. With the mii, there’s multiple joints, and even the end of his arms would bend/turn I assume because of where the mii’s hands would be, and the elbow joint would probably be in a weird spot compared to the characters in the Dungeons trailers. A cardboard mascot costume would probably be fine, and either way I’d gladly take a costume if he wouldn’t be a fighter, but it seems like he’d either look off or be a low-budget costume as a Mii.

As a fighter, though, he’s really not limited to the animations in Minecraft, as they still imply he could move his limbs however he wants realistically (they’re also adding gestures and stuff to Bedrock Edition). New animations could be made that stick with Minecraft’s style, and he could move his legs to do a jump, his arms as well to show silly body language and other stuff even if they don’t bend at all (I think how they bend in Dungeons looks good, though, since it’s right-angles, so either that or no-bends is fine imo, but I guess I kinda prefer no-bends personally even if I still like the other). Mojang’s official trailers for Dungeons, as well as the one they did with ElementAnimation for their Village & Pillage update and the trailer with the bees, all show characters/mobs having facial animations showing personality, while still sticking with Minecraft’s blocky style instead of having rounded bends/weird model stuff like in a lot of fan animations (although ElementAnimation’s other animations and CaptainSparklez’s parodies make it look good and enjoyable imo, as they’re still largely sticking to Minecraft’s style despite some rounding in a mouth, eyebrow or elsewhere, but the pure blocky/pixel style in the Village & Pillage trailer with Villager News also looks very good and fits Minecraft more). This is why I feel he’d look better as a fighter (I imagine him moving better and stuff that way, looking good, and still fit in as much as every other character), even if I’d still take a costume and be happy he and Minecraft got some representation instead of nothing at all.

I guess, in the end, it doesn’t matter or bother me much, even if I really want him as a fighter with his own unique moveset, but I guess it does bother me how some people suggest the idea when they don’t really care/in Twitter’s case, it’s usually just someone wanting to bother Steve fans about it, which is done to Geno fans too (and bothers me then as well) but I don’t see it as often...I guess it also bothers me how some people argue Steve wouldn’t fit in but then propose the idea of just a stage or the full-body Mii costume, contradicting themselves (since they wouldn’t fit in either if Steve himself wouldn’t)...

 

[Animegamingnerd]

This makes me wonder something, how even was created the Geno support anyway? o.o

I blame nostalgia for Super Mario RPG, for many it was their first RPG if they had grew up and got into gaming during the SNES era.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

I'm suddenly reminded back in the Brawl days everyone, at least in the communities I was in thought Geno was inevitable and got upset when he wasn't part of the roster. Some of them blamed the likes of ROB and Wolf over Geno not making it in, weirdly enough.

This is why no matter how likely or demanded a character is, I never truly consider them a "Lock".

 

[Rikarte]

So since Nintendo provided a list of characters for Sakurai to pick from for FP1, I wonder if the characters for FP2 are some of the left overs that he did consider, but decided against for FP1?

Pretty sure Sakurai never actually stated that he has been given a list. From what I understood, Nintendo just presented him a character and he had to decide if he could work with it or not.

 

[Goombaic]

I didn't mean for flame wars to be my main point, so I edited it out. What I really wanted to say was that bringing them back to speculation when we already have plenty of potential fighters without them would be too chaotic and make speculation not fun. To me, adding an AT would be like Goku getting in Smash, just ruin all preconceived notions and open the doors to too many characters. I want Rex and Pyra so bad, but since them getting added would mean a second chance for dozens upon dozens of characters, I'd rather wait the next game for a promotion.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I didn't mean for flame wars to be my main point, so I edited it out. What I really wanted to say was that bringing them back to speculation when we already have plenty of potential fighters without them would be too chaotic and make speculation not fun. To me, adding an AT would be like Goku getting in Smash, just ruin all preconceived notions and open the doors to too many characters. I want Rex and Pyra so bad, but since them getting added would mean a second chance for dozens upon dozens of characters, I'd rather wait the next game for a promotion.

And there weren't floodgates opened by the third-party focus this pass had?

 

[Deleted member]

That's why I said Smash 4 and not Brawl. Someone less partial than Fatman made a nice writing about the history of Geno support on this board a few months ago. It was clear that his fanbase, while well present during Brawl, disappeared totally in Smash 4, only to being resurrected by Sakurai statement.

Well, Geno's support has definately resurfaced. Doesn't that say anything? Smash 4 speculation is irrelevent now because we're speculating for Ultimate and not 4. Like I said, I wasn't active for Smash 4 because I didn't own a Wii U or buy the game back then and I was personally gutted to hear some characters like Lucas, Ice Climbers and Wolf were cut, so the game lost a customer with me. I was a very active supporter for Geno though back in Brawl when I was only a young lad.

Maybe others felt the same way. I can't explain why the support wasn't active for Smash 4, however not only has Geno's support resurfaced, it's surpassed the support for Brawl and that alone speaks a ton of volumes.

 

[CroonerMike]

Well, Geno's support has definately resurfaced. Doesn't that say anything? Smash 4 speculation is irrelevent now because we're speculating for Ultimate and not 4. Like I said, I wasn't active for Smash 4 because I didn't own a Wii U or buy the game back then and I was personally gutted to hear some characters like Lucas, Ice Climbers and Wolf were cut, so the game lost a customer with me. I was a very active supporter for Geno though back in Brawl when I was only a young lad.

Maybe others felt the same way. I can't explain why the support wasn't active for Smash 4, however not only has Geno's support resurfaced, it's surpassed the support for Brawl and that alone speaks a ton of volumes.

Be careful defending Geno fans, you may end up banned since the mods been doing that lately. Clearly you have to like what this thread deems good.

 

[Will]

Well, Geno's support has definately resurfaced.

It always has been. The moment someone people asked for a really long time comes in (//), geno fans huddle around thinking it's their time to shine. The first mistake is ever thinking that the time will come. /s

 

[cosmicB]

Is Geno also highly requested in the Japanese Smash scene, or is it mostly just in English-speaking areas?

 

[Cosmic77]

I didn't mean for flame wars to be my main point, so I edited it out. What I really wanted to say was that bringing them back to speculation when we already have plenty of potential fighters without them would be too chaotic and make speculation not fun. To me, adding an AT would be like Goku getting in Smash, just ruin all preconceived notions and open the doors to too many characters. I want Rex and Pyra so bad, but since them getting added would mean a second chance for dozens upon dozens of characters, I'd rather wait the next game for a promotion.

I'm not sure I follow your logic though. You'd rather see characters who already have an AT or Spirit, including the ones you want, miss out on Ultimate altogether because it would ruin "preconceived notions"?

This thread has a horrible track record when it comes to correctly predicting things, so the odds of us going through six more characters without at least a couple dozen "preconceived notions" being completely shattered were pretty low to begin with. Plus, I don't think including ATs and Spirits, a majority of which are first-party, is really going to open the door to too many characters when we're already considering hundreds of third-parties each day. Our options aren't nearly as broad.

 

[Will]

Be careful defending Geno fans, you may end up banned since the mods been doing that lately.

The ****, what? Bring the evidence before you spite the defense.

Is Geno also highly requested in the Japanese Smash scene, or is it mostly just in English-speaking areas?

Mostly English-speaking. Bring up all the fan polls you want and I'll be damned if a recent one has Geno topping any top 10s in the "Japan" section.

 

[Deleted member]

Be careful defending Geno fans, you may end up banned since the mods been doing that lately. Clearly you have to like what this thread deems good.

So be it then. I'll stand my ground as a proud Geno supporter. Have been for over a decade. Funny you should say that too considering I just got back from a temp ban yesterday because I told someone to **** off because they were spreading lies about the Geno thread after Blythes reveal. Idk where this bias from the mods is coming from.

 

[Droodle]

Is Geno also highly requested in the Japanese Smash scene, or is it mostly just in English-speaking areas?

He was big before Ultimate launched, but after that he slowly declined in popularity. He's still a decently big requests, but characters like Rex/Byleth are more popular then him over there. That said, judging Japanese popularity polls/requests is always difficult; because the big ones on twitter always tend to be a mixture of Japanese and Western Smash fans; so it becomes hard to judge what the Japanese requests are.

Most of Geno's fanbase lies in the West currently though.

 

[snowgolem]

How would you guys feel if one of the DLC was a 4th party character, but the character had been in video games before. At the same time, the model in smash bros would be based on the character’s video game iteration.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

How would you guys feel if one of the DLC was a 4th party character, but the character had been in video games before. At the same time, the model in smash bros would be based on the character’s video game iteration.

Eh, I wouldn't be bothered.

I just like having fun characters to play as.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

How would you guys feel if one of the DLC was a 4th party character, but the character had been in video games before. At the same time, the model in smash bros would be based on the character’s video game iteration.

Depends. Is the fourth party character in question Geralt?

 

[Will]

How would you guys feel if one of the DLC was a 4th party character, but the character had been in video games before. At the same time, the model in smash bros would be based on the character’s video game iteration.

Looks like we're finally getting that third Konami rep after all

 

[TheCJBrine]

How would you guys feel if one of the DLC was a 4th party character, but the character had been in video games before. At the same time, the model in smash bros would be based on the character’s video game iteration.

SpongeBob would be epic.

 

[staindgrey]

So since Nintendo provided a list of characters for Sakurai to pick from for FP1, I wonder if the characters for FP2 are some of the left overs that he did consider, but decided against for FP1?

Tinfoil hat time:

Remember when Phil Spencer met with Nintendo execs behind closed doors at E3 and we thought that was for Smash?

The timing for that doesn't line up for Banjo, who would have been decided upon well before that meeting.

But the timing does line up for FP2.

 

[snowgolem]

Tinfoil hat time:

Remember when Phil Spencer met with Nintendo execs behind closed doors at E3 and we thought that was for Smash?

The timing for that doesn't line up for Banjo, who would have been decided upon well before that meeting.

But the timing does line up for FP2.

View attachment 258982

Bro Minecraft Steve? Do you mean it? I can’t believe we’re getting Minecraft Steve

 

[lordvaati]

How would you guys feel if one of the DLC was a 4th party character, but the character had been in video games before. At the same time, the model in smash bros would be based on the character’s video game iteration.

So like PS4 Spider-Man or something? Hmmm...I dunno.

On one hand it can be immensely fun. On the other, Sakurai kinda leans extra hard on this limitation for a reason. He has a clear vision of what Super Smash Bros. is, and drifting too far off would just turn it into The Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny or something.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

How would you guys feel if one of the DLC was a 4th party character, but the character had been in video games before. At the same time, the model in smash bros would be based on the character’s video game iteration.

B-b-but ma-mah slippery slope! Sakurai won't stop! He won't have any self control! The game will be just like Mugen!

But seriously Spongebob or Goku as an exception would be pretty cool.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Looks like we're finally getting that third Konami rep after all

View attachment 258980

I gotta find the old moveset I made for him and Yugi. They had a Taunt-switch stance, where they basically when from Yugi's weaker monsters to Yami's far stronger ones. Effectively two similar movesets like two echoes. It's comparable to Corrin/Bayonetta, who summoned/transformed stuff for various attacks.

Smash doesn't have a character that constantly summons monsters to dole out attacks either. We have similar stuff(including Rosalina since this is admittedly akin to a puppet fighter, though pretty different in concept).

Otherwise, I've made a fun Red-Eyes Black Dragon moveset with his mechanic being that his body changes pieces with items respectively. He turned into the actual Red-Eyes Black Metal Dragon with a Metal Box, or gets the Dragon Claws with a Beam Sword. Etc. I'll have to rework it for new items, though. And it only works with transformation items, at least. I don't think holding a Bob-Omb should matter, but the other bomb that sticks to you could be turned into Blast Sphere(and stay that way for anyone else if possible).

 

[Deleted member]

How would you guys feel if one of the DLC was a 4th party character, but the character had been in video games before. At the same time, the model in smash bros would be based on the character’s video game iteration.

I've always envisioned 3. No more. No less.

Goku
Spider-Man
The Undertaker

 

[staindgrey]

Bro Minecraft Steve? Do you mean it? I can’t believe we’re getting Minecraft Steve

Yep!

In a hyper-realistic Master Chief skin.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yep!

In a hyper-realistic Master Chief skin.

Ah, my love for the Halo Mash-Up pack only intensifies. Even better that it's on the Switch version too~

 

[GoodGrief741]

I understand, and I’m sorry.

I’ll go ahead and try to answer it better, since admittedly I may have done a poor job explaining it the first time around and again I’m sorry for taking you and anyone else wrong:

Spoiler

I figured a mii wouldn’t look as good as a full fighter in Steve’s case since the limbs would be unfaithful to Minecraft’s style. With the mii, there’s multiple joints, and even the end of his arms would bend/turn I assume because of where the mii’s hands would be, and the elbow joint would probably be in a weird spot compared to the characters in the Dungeons trailers. A cardboard mascot costume would probably be fine, and either way I’d gladly take a costume if he wouldn’t be a fighter, but it seems like he’d either look off or be a low-budget costume as a Mii.

As a fighter, though, he’s really not limited to the animations in Minecraft, as they still imply he could move his limbs however he wants realistically (they’re also adding gestures and stuff to Bedrock Edition). New animations could be made that stick with Minecraft’s style, and he could move his legs to do a jump, his arms as well to show silly body language and other stuff even if they don’t bend at all (I think how they bend in Dungeons looks good, though, since it’s right-angles, so either that or no-bends is fine imo, but I guess I kinda prefer no-bends personally even if I still like the other). Mojang’s official trailers for Dungeons, as well as the one they did with ElementAnimation for their Village & Pillage update and the trailer with the bees, all show characters/mobs having facial animations showing personality, while still sticking with Minecraft’s blocky style instead of having rounded bends/weird model stuff like in a lot of fan animations (although ElementAnimation’s other animations and CaptainSparklez’s parodies make it look good and enjoyable imo, as they’re still largely sticking to Minecraft’s style despite some rounding in a mouth, eyebrow or elsewhere, but the pure blocky/pixel style in the Village & Pillage trailer with Villager News also looks very good and fits Minecraft more). This is why I feel he’d look better as a fighter (I imagine him moving better and stuff that way, looking good, and still fit in as much as every other character), even if I’d still take a costume and be happy he and Minecraft got some representation instead of nothing at all.

I guess, in the end, it doesn’t matter or bother me much, even if I really want him as a fighter with his own unique moveset, but I guess it does bother me how some people suggest the idea when they don’t really care/in Twitter’s case, it’s usually just someone wanting to bother Steve fans about it, which is done to Geno fans too (and bothers me then as well) but I don’t see it as often...I guess it also bothers me how some people argue Steve wouldn’t fit in but then propose the idea of just a stage or the full-body Mii costume, contradicting themselves (since they wouldn’t fit in either if Steve himself wouldn’t)...

I'm having trouble envisioning the difference between bendy limbs on regular Steve and bendy limbs on a Steve Mii Costume.

I didn't mean for flame wars to be my main point, so I edited it out. What I really wanted to say was that bringing them back to speculation when we already have plenty of potential fighters without them would be too chaotic and make speculation not fun. To me, adding an AT would be like Goku getting in Smash, just ruin all preconceived notions and open the doors to too many characters. I want Rex and Pyra so bad, but since them getting added would mean a second chance for dozens upon dozens of characters, I'd rather wait the next game for a promotion.

So... Lots of characters being possible somehow makes speculation worse?

Damn, gotta miss those glory days when Vergeben disconfirmed everybody and nobody knew what to talk about.
In all seriousness, that was so bad that people basically decided to ignore every disconfirmation and just discuss anybody.

Plus, seriously, even if speculation is ruined, who ****ing cares? The moment you give more priority to speculation about a game than to the game itself is the moment you've gone too far.

Be careful defending Geno fans, you may end up banned since the mods been doing that lately. Clearly you have to like what this thread deems good.

Pretty sure Geno fans were being banned because they believe that off-topic rules don't apply to them.

How would you guys feel if one of the DLC was a 4th party character, but the character had been in video games before. At the same time, the model in smash bros would be based on the character’s video game iteration.

The day a 4th party gets in Smash is the day I stop playing Smash. That's when it just stops being for me.

 

[Deleted member]

I've always envisioned 3. No more. No less.

Goku
Spider-Man
The Undertaker

The Undertaker

If we get a Smash trailer with Incineroar standing in the ring looking for more challengers and the gong goes off, my heart will stop.

 

[Deleted member]

Steve or Máster Chief, I don't mind who ends Up getting in.

Both are really awesome picks on their own merits.