Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[RileyXY1]

I don't think that a hypothetical Sword & Shield rep has to be Rillaboom.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Honestly, the way I think right now is: the moment characters suddenly become more and more requested, they lose their charm and surprise factor. Suddenly it's a pick made to make fans happy without the genuine shock value.

Don't start complaining about this because I technically got what I wanted anyways. I think that we should open ourselves to even more out-of-field picks. Happened to me with Joker, and now Persona became one of my favorite franchises. I just love the idea more, though if your goal is to be satisfied, then I don't see the issue.

Essentially all these wishlists without Sora on them that jve seen only make him stronger because no one sees it coming.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Honestly, I want to see more zany/Off-the-wall/unexpected picks for Smash. Nothing against characters like Sora, Geno, Doom Guy, Ryu Hayabusa, Master Chief, etc etc but they're all part of the same bubble that pops up a lot and we'll likely only get one or two of them. This is why I latch onto unexpected characters or characters people think are unlikely or "Too Niche" Kiryu, Arle, Reimu, Monokuma, Lu Bu, Sol Badguy, etc etc. Characters people keep dismissing or brushing off because they ain't part of that circle of characters.

It makes conversation more fun beyond the same six or so characters and given how we have Six characters coming, it raises the chance of us getting one or two of those kinds of characters into Smash.

 

[Opossum]

But Lucina's whole shtick is being female Marth.

Taking the appearance of Marth. Fighting style-wise she's exactly like Chrom. That's the entire point of the Two Falchions cutscene.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Honestly, the way I think right now is: the moment characters suddenly become more and more requested, they lose their charm and surprise factor. Suddenly it's a pick made to make fans happy without the genuine shock value.

Don't start complaining about this because I technically got what I wanted anyways. I think that we should open ourselves to even more out-of-field picks. Happened to me with Joker, and now Persona became one of my favorite franchises. I just love the idea more, though if your goal is to be satisfied, then I don't see the issue.

Out of left field picks are great, my favorite DLC character by a mile is Terry, who I knew absolutely nothing about prior to his reveal. His inclusion has helped introduce me not only to a super fun character I didn't know about before, but also a great franchise that I'm having a lot of fun with atm.

However, I don't think highly requested characters necessarily lose their charm just because they're discussed often, they just come with a different type of excitement. It's always fun to see the more requested characters be realized in the game, if only because the many discussions about them usually also revolve around how they could be implemented, and to then see Sakurai's take on it is pretty cool. Like, I'm not a Geno supporter, but if he ever gets in, I'm super interested in seeing how he'll look in HD, and whether they'll implement a timing mechanic with him, which is something that's usually part of fanmade movesets. That's also how it was for me with Banjo and K. Rool, I didn't outright support either character, but it was really cool to see them become reality after they had practically become myths within the community, it's one thing to imagine them and another to see them before your eyes.

I personally don't value the surprise factor that much, because while it's super fun in the moment, it ultimately doesn't mean much beyond the reveal moment, once the character is in the game they have to be able to stand on their own anyways. That's what Sakurai has generally done well too, barely anybody saw Joker and Terry coming, so they did have a surprise factor, but beyond that they have also contributed so much more to the game than just that. So yeah, people absolutely should be even more open to characters that come out of the left field, but more so because you might be missing out on something you could actually enjoy, and not because there's anything wrong with the more popular requests, ideally we get a healthy mix of both.

 

[Icewolff92]

I don't think that a hypothetical Sword & Shield rep has to be Rillaboom.

Didn¨t Sword and Shield get spirits within its release window?

 

[Rikarte]

Didn¨t Sword and Shield get spirits within its release window?

Yeah, it got a couple of Spirits and a themed online tournament. Considering that 3H had absolutely nothing until Byleth, I'm gonna assume we're not getting another Pokemon. If I had to pick a frontrunner though I would go with Urshifu as the expansion could be considered a new game.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Since a lot of people have been posting their predictions here are mine

The Top image is what I think is going to happen
And the bottom is what I'd like to see personally

Spoiler: Predictions

View attachment 258717
1. King Boo I think is a safe bet considering Luigi's Mansion 3 came out on October 31st in 2019 and the fighters for the next pass were chosen in November 2019.

2. As much as I don't like Pokemon Sword and Shield Rillaboom seems like an obvious one to me. With a new pass and a new Pokemon region being released while the choosing process came about I'm assuming they're going to add some pokemon from the Galar region. I'm assuming Rillaboom since they've mainly been choosing starters for newer regions and we already have a water type (Greninja) and a fire type (Incineroar)

3. I chose Ryze from League of Legends since Riot Games is owned by Tencent and Nintendo has a good relationship with them as they are helping bringing the Switch to the Chinese market. LoL is now coming to the Switch with the Wild Rift. Riot Games has been recently trying to expand their reach with new games and partnerships. A lot of these said new games and partnerships were announced in late 2019. The same time as the new fighters were being chosen. Ryze was picked specifically out of the over 140 champions due to being one of the original champions and both his popularity and his near mascot status.

4. Geno because even Sakurai said he wanted him back in Brawl and he feels like the next step for a 3rd Square Rep

5. Ravis Touchdown due to the new No More Heroes game coming to Switch and Ubisofts relationship with Nintendo. Though I would much rather have Rayman as a Ubisoft rep.

6. Sora because of how highly requested he is. Disney said they would be happy to let him in and Square is already in Smash. KH3 is having new DLC coming this month

Spoiler: Most Wanted

View attachment 258718
1. King Boo. When I was younger I didn't think he could work but now I could see him as a unique take on the Tank archetype with intangibility for his shield and hovering for his jumps

2. Crypto's in mainly because of my childhood. But I would've said no before due to the first pass conflicting with the announcement of the Destroy All Humans remaster announcement but now that a 2nd Fighters Pass is coming now he actually has a chance.

3. I've been wanting Sora for as long as I've wanted Shadow the Hedgehog. Since the days of Brawl.

4. Same for Crash. (Though I'm not looking forward to the annoying "harhar Crash in Smash and not PlayStation Allstars" comments. I think I would just delete Twitter for the next month just to avoid it considering no one wants to actually look up the development hell that game went through.

5. Same from Crypto but considering his popularity from the 90's, almost being considered a rival to both Mario and Sonic back then I think he has a way better chance than Crypto.

6. I just like Ahri. Even though if they are going to add a League champion it's most likely going to be one of the originals which Ahri is not. I can't help but to root for my main. (Akali is good too)

Template from @RealMarkProd on Twitter. Give him a follow!

Yessss another big King Boo supporter, I’d lose my mind if he made it in honestly, I have a moveset for him done that I think would be great, good to see another supporter

 

[MooMew64]

Taking the appearance of Marth. Fighting style-wise she's exactly like Chrom. That's the entire point of the Two Falchions cutscene.

It's amazing how many people make that assumption about Lucina without doing a quick 5-second Google search.

 

[toonito]

Awesome - Phoenix Wright
Indifferent - KOS-MOS & Doom Guy
Legendary - Ryu Hayabusa
Salty - Geno
Best Pick - Heihachi

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

There is value in the surprise factor, but I don’t think every pick should be “hah, you didn’t know you wanted this one!”

People may disagree, but that’s where I see Dante. He’s just...Dante. Moveset and gimmick make themselves, a ton of people love the character, DMC brings amazing music...he’s just an all around amazing pick.

With the games coming to Switch, that’s always a potential indicator. Can’t know for sure until we get all the picks in of course.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

I feel like Dante will end up being the first character in the second pass to kick things off.

 

[MooMew64]

Dante is like 99% happening in my eyes, so if it does indeed happen, cool for those who wanted it. I don't like DmC, but I'm not gonna be a downer towards others. Not every Smash character needs to appeal to me.

All the fan art of him with Joker and Byleth will be funny, though, as both characters have alt colors that are basically Dante colors, lol.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I feel like Dante will end up being the first character in the second pass to kick things off.

Either Dante or Ryu Hiabusa in my books

 

[blackghost]

I'm all for tweaking Fire Emblem characters to make them less clone-y. Give Marth his Fire Emblem, man.

View attachment 258488

And for people who nag about Fire Emblem overrepresentation, here's a question: what is your ideal number of Fire Emblem reps?

FE fans dont even like nearly that much roy. roy is here because smash fans wanted him back. Smash fans also begged for chrome to get his chance after a trailer and people felt bad for him. It was truly the strngest thing i'd ever seen at the time.
2 of the reps of FE are in becuase smash fans asked for them. not because of sakurai bia or anything else. FE reps imo should be around 5 or 6. with lucina also folding back and becoming a marth costume it fits the lore of FE as well.

i'd cut roy, chrom, and technically lucina. that leaves fe with a variety weapons character, on of smashes only transforming characters, a power character, a ranged character and marth. and the last spot would go to the newest game at the time.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Dante is like 99% happening in my eyes, so if it does indeed happen, cool for those who wanted it. I don't like DmC, but I'm not gonna be a downer towards others. Not every Smash character needs to appeal to me.

All the fan art of him with Joker and Byleth will be funny, though, as both characters have alt colors that are basically Dante colors, lol.

Guaranteed to be the seventh character since Byleth stole his invitation!

 

[3BitSaurus]

So based on that prediction I made yesterday:

Alright, early predictions for FP2 (in full this time).

CP6 - Sora or 2B. Both would kick off the Pass really strongly. Chocobo and Geno costumes come with them.

CP7 - A character from a new japanese company - my bet is either Hayabusa or Travis, the former for NES legacy, the latter for Wii legacy and current relevance.

CP8 - A western character. No idea who, but I think we'll get at least one more.

CP9 - Heihachi. Enough said. Comes with Namco Mii Costumes.

CP10 - First party character, probably from a 2020/early 2021 game.

CP11 - Dante. I think he'd be our second exception for "ending with a bang", like Bayo. The remaining Capcom costumes come with him.

I suppose I could elaborate more, but I'm on mobile and I'm lazy, so...

There's something else - Spirit events for third parties. We got three this year, with Tetris, Daemon x Machina and Resident Evil. So as an average, suppose we get three more this year and three more in 2021 for a total of six. Which franchises do you think will make it like that?

My bets would be:

• Puyo Puyo. It hurts, but I'm not too confident on Sega right now.
• Ace Attorney, if Phoenix doesn't make it.
• If 2B makes it, then a smaller SE franchise, like Chrono Trigger or Octopath. If she doesn't, then Nier.
• If Heihachi makes it, then Tales. If he doesn't, then Tekken.
• If Travis isn't next season, I can see No More Heroes getting a Spirit event due to NMH3.
• Dunno, Elder Scrolls? We have basically every type of content from western developers now, I don't see a Spirit event being that farfetched.

Also, GothicSlenderman , may I shamelessly plug the LoL thread and the Ahri thread for you?

 

[Goombaic]

Made some changes to my prediction from a couple of days ago and came to this selection.

I'll admit, with 4 of them based on recent releases, this may not age well as a prediction. Maybe swap Travis with Crash or another off the wall character.

 

[Garteam]

I'm still not getting the extreme confidence in Dante that everyone else is. All the "evidence" for him was deemed to be false, seeing how V's voice actor was simply mistaken and the January 16th thing just ended up being a coincidence. Likewise, Dante has to compete with Monster Hunter, Phoenix Wright, and Amaterasu to be the third Capcom rep, all characters with a lot going for them. Even then, we don't know how likely a third Capcom character is, seeing how every Capcom costume except Monster Hunter's has been brought back in another DLC pack.

I have similar feelings on 2B. A lot of people compare her situation to Joker's, but that's a false equivalence. Both may have had major releases in 2017, but Joker's was a part of the massive legacy that Shin Megami Tensei and Persona have. Nier: Automata, while massive, is instead part of the comparatively smaller Drakengard and Nier series. Likewise, we have evidence through interviews that Persona 5 was a massive influence on both Ultimate's UI and its general aesthetic. This gives it another leg up that Automata didn't have. Finally, 2B has to compete with the crazy amount of requests for Geno and Sora to nab that coveted Square Enix spot.

Both of them would be cool, but there's generally more to that when arguing a character's likeliness to join Smash.

 

[Rikarte]

So based on that prediction I made yesterday:



There's something else - Spirit events for third parties. We got three this year, with Tetris, Daemon x Machina and Resident Evil. So as an average, suppose we get three more this year and three more in 2021 for a total of six. Which franchises do you think will make it like that?

My bets would be:

• Puyo Puyo. It hurts, but I'm not too confident on Sega right now.
• Ace Attorney, if Phoenix doesn't make it.
• If 2B makes it, then a smaller SE franchise, like Chrono Trigger or Octopath. If she doesn't, then Nier.
• If Heihachi makes it, then Tales. If he doesn't, then Tekken.
• If Travis isn't next season, I can see No More Heroes getting a Spirit event due to NMH3.
• Dunno, Elder Scrolls? We have basically every type of content from western developers now, I don't see a Spirit event being that farfetched.

Also, GothicSlenderman , may I shamelessly plug the LoL thread and the Ahri thread for you?

Monster Hunter is a series that absolutely needs a Spirit event if the Hunter doesn't get in imo.
Besides the Rathalos there is absolutely nothing despite the series having so much potential for cool Spirit battles.

 

[SKX31]

Honestly, I want to see more zany/Off-the-wall/unexpected picks for Smash. Nothing against characters like Sora, Geno, Doom Guy, Ryu Hayabusa, Master Chief, etc etc but they're all part of the same bubble that pops up a lot and we'll likely only get one or two of them. This is why I latch onto unexpected characters or characters people think are unlikely or "Too Niche" Kiryu, Arle, Reimu, Monokuma, Lu Bu, Sol Badguy, etc etc. Characters people keep dismissing or brushing off because they ain't part of that circle of characters.

It makes conversation more fun beyond the same six or so characters and given how we have Six characters coming, it raises the chance of us getting one or two of those kinds of characters into Smash.

Yes indeed! I'm also generally in favor of popular picks like MOBAs -especially Dota 2, but would also welcome LoL -, Overwatch / Warcraft etc. for similar reasons. It's more fun to not just discuss the favorites, but also the niche and the "nah, these games have no real connection to Nintendo". You never know - Epic and Riot are great examples of companies that were not connected to Nintendo in any shape of form just a few years ago. SNK and Koei Tecmo got much closer to Nintendo only recently. And Sakurai himself is unpredictable - I doubt many would've assumed 2B had much of a chance heading into Ultimate's base game. But now with new info (specifically Sakurai's meetings with Yoko Taro) her chanches look more likely.

Things change rapidly, and that helps keep things really exciting. One reason why I'm watching China so closely too.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Dante would be super cool in Smash, but allow me to present to you another character that can rival him in moveset potential.

 

[Thewafflemaker2000]

How did you all expect the DLC to be revealed in the next two years?
I'm guessing
2 at E3 this year
One in winter 2020
One before E3 next year
Final two at E3 2021

Im expecting 3 this year and 3 next year

 

[SKX31]

How did you all expect the DLC to be revealed in the next two years?
I'm guessing
2 at E3 this year
One in winter 2020
One before E3 next year
Final two at E3 2021

Guessing:

One before E3 (Maybe as soon as FP2 releases).
One - or even two - at E3 2020.
One at ChinaJoy 2020 (China's E3, early August) if there's only one E3 reveal.
One in winter 2020.
One in spring / at E3 2021.
Final one for FP2 at October / November 2021. If it's a tradeshow reveal, I'm thinking TGS (edit: which is held earlier than that, but alas) - but I'm assuming no tradeshow reveal for the final one.

 

[MooMew64]

How did you all expect the DLC to be revealed in the next two years?
I'm guessing
2 at E3 this year
One in winter 2020
One before E3 next year
Final two at E3 2021

2 this year: One at E3, another in the Fall Direct usually in September.

4 next year: One in January/February, two at E3, finale in Fall Direct.

I'm expecting a big gap this year in reveals after Byleth. Things'll pick up after E3.

 

[Icewolff92]

Yeah, it got a couple of Spirits and a themed online tournament. Considering that 3H had absolutely nothing until Byleth, I'm gonna assume we're not getting another Pokemon. If I had to pick a frontrunner though I would go with Urshifu as the expansion could be considered a new game.

Exactly. That¨s the reason why I¨m wondering if I wonder if we are getting one

Granted, they haven¨t touched a fraction of the current generation, but it could be worth to keep in mind. Truth be told, I think we are getting another Zelda rep before we get another Pokemon concidering Breath of The Wild 2.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I'm still not getting the extreme confidence in Dante that everyone else is. All the "evidence" for him was deemed to be false, seeing how V's voice actor was simply mistaken and the January 16th thing just ended up being a coincidence. Likewise, Dante has to compete with Monster Hunter, Phoenix Wright, and Amaterasu to be the third Capcom rep, all characters with a lot going for them. Even then, we don't know how likely a third Capcom character is, seeing how every Capcom costume except Monster Hunter's has been brought back in another DLC pack.

I have similar feelings on 2B. A lot of people compare her situation to Joker's, but that's a false equivalence. Both may have had major releases in 2017, but Joker's was a part of the massive legacy that Shin Megami Tensei and Persona have. Nier: Automata, while massive, is instead part of the comparatively smaller Drakengard and Nier series. Likewise, we have evidence through interviews that Persona 5 was a massive influence on both Ultimate's UI and its general aesthetic. This gives it another leg up that Automata didn't have. Finally, 2B has to compete with the crazy amount of requests for Geno and Sora to nab that coveted Square Enix spot. I will give that Phoenix is viable competition for Dante, but I believe that Capcom's recent push for DMC is what would see Dante added before Phoenix.

Both of them would be cool, but there's generally more to that when arguing a character's likeliness to join Smash.

Let's be real, Amaterasu doesn't have much going for her, at least in the face of other Capcom reps. Okami is a dead series kept alive by remakes and has an incredibly small amount of relevance or popularity compared to Capcom's other series. In regards to her ties with Nintendo, both Phoenix and Monster Hunter beat her out so even that claim is dubious. Monster Hunter similarly faces challenges in already existing base game content. While it is true that Byleth was added and built onto already existing Fire Emblem content, and likewise Monster Hunter could be added and build onto already existing Monster Hunter content, there is no precedent for this occurring with third parties. So far third party DLC has only roped in new series.

Your argument about 2B seems to be in bad faith considering you don't acknowledge the fact that Sakurai is on the record as a large fan of the Drakengard and Nier series (even going so far as to play both versions of the original Nier), and is known to be friends with Drakengard and Nier series director Yoko Taro. Furthermore, at this point it's well known that Sora is primarily a Disney rep, and Square Enix wouldn't be as critical in negotiations for him than for one of their characters. 2B's also consistently ranked in the lower half of Japanese popularity polls (with Japan being the demographic appealed to the most), so she doesn't suffer from a complete lack of popularity. Augmented by the aforementioned factors, I can definitely see her taking the Square Enix spot.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Dante is like 99% happening in my eyes, so if it does indeed happen, cool for those who wanted it.

Thinking that any character is guaranteed is an invitation to be disappointed. Shadow and Isaac were "99% happening" as well prior to the November Direct. Same for Resident Evil prior to their DLC Spirits.

For all we know a DMC spirit event might happen tomorrow. Cold, but not unlike what's happened before.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Thinking that any character is guaranteed is an invitation to be disappointed. Shadow and Isaac were "99% happening" as well prior to the November Direct. Same for Resident Evil prior to their Spirits.

Hahaha. I'm still sad over Shadow.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I feel it should also be noted that Joker coming to Smash was a crossover with Persona 5, not Shin Megami Tensei. This doesn't mean the legacy of SMT had nothing to do with Joker getting in, but I'm not so sure it's as vital to Joker getting in as it seems, considering there's been no mention of SMT in the presentation.

I think Joker got in because Persona 5 is a rather influential title, it brought a universe that was totally new to Smash, and Joker is incredibly unique compared to the rest of the roster.

If there's something I've learned, it's that the "size" of the series isn't as big of a deal as we have made it out to be. This may sound odd coming from me, I know. But I'll unironically say it, "Resident Evil is the largest Japanese-created video game series without a playable character in Smash"

It has spirits. Nothing else at this point.

 

[MooMew64]

Thinking that any character is guaranteed is an invitation to be disappointed. Shadow and Isaac were "99% happening" as well prior to the November Direct. Same for Resident Evil prior to their Spirits.

I have no personal attachment to DmC or Dante. In fact, I do not like that series.

There's no bias here, nor will there be any disappointment on my part. I'm just speculating, and I could honestly care less if I'm wrong.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Hahaha. I'm still sad over Shadow.

Ah me too, IMO he is the one singular character in the game I feel like should have absolutely happened but just didn’t for some reason, he would’ve made just so much sense and would’ve made a good lot of people happy. Really do wonder why he wasn’t added

 

[Mushroomguy12]

If there's something I've learned, it's that the "size" of the series isn't as big of a deal as we have made it out to be. This may sound odd coming from me, I know. But I'll unironically say it, "Resident Evil is the largest Japanese-created video game series without a playable character in Smash"

Banjo getting in over Steve is another big example of that.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Honestly, the way I think right now is: the moment characters suddenly become more and more requested, they lose their charm and surprise factor. Suddenly it's a pick made to make fans happy without the genuine shock value.

Don't start complaining about this because I technically got what I wanted anyways. I think that we should open ourselves to even more out-of-field picks. Happened to me with Joker, and now Persona became one of my favorite franchises. I just love the idea more, though if your goal is to be satisfied, then I don't see the issue.

A surprise lasts for just some time - it wears off before the character is even released. The character is there forever. You pick characters based on just shock value, you're not picking well.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Ah me too, IMO he is the one singular character in the game I feel like should have absolutely happened but just didn’t for some reason, he would’ve made just so much sense and would’ve made a good lot of people happy. Really do wonder why he wasn’t added

Same. I wasn’t even that much of a big fan of the character outside the idea of him appearing in Smash as a PC. But I was so hyped from the grinch leak and so sure he was happening, that I attempted a play through of his game again.

Never got why SEGA didn’t take the extra step forward, Sakurai would have said yes I bet. I mean, we got Ken!

 

[Wunderwaft]

A surprise lasts for just some time - it wears off before the character is even released. The character is there forever. You pick characters based on just shock value, you're not picking well.

Yeah, like if I added three goombas stacked on top of each other as a character to Smash it would be shocking for sure, but it doesn't mean it would be a good character choice.

 

[MooMew64]

Yeah, like if I added three goombas stacked on top of each other as a character to Smash it would be shocking for sure, but it doesn't mean it would be a good character choice.

Speak for yourself, I'd be a day one Goomba Stack main.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Same. I wasn’t even that much of a big fan of the character outside the idea of him appearing in Smash as a PC. But I was so hyped from the grinch leak and so sure he was happening, that I attempted a play through of his game again.

Never got why SEGA didn’t take the extra step forward, Sakurai would have said yes I bet. I mean, we got Ken!

Agreed, especially with how Knuckles became an assist and shadow was seemingly removed from Green Hill Zone, it was like pretty much every sign was pointing towards him happening but he was unceremoniously just revealed to be an assist again, disappointing

 

[Wunderwaft]

Speak for yourself, I'd be a day one Goomba Stack main.

Enjoy getting counter picked with Mario every time then.

 

[I.D.]

Your argument about 2B seems to be in bad faith considering you don't acknowledge the fact that Sakurai is on the record as a large fan of the Drakengard and Nier series

I'd really, really like to see Sakurai livestream himself playing any Drakengard game, or literally anyone who claims to be a large fan of Drakengard. They are goddawful games that sold like crap and are retroactively being liked due to Yoko Taro becoming a meme figure.