Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[ThatOneAnon]

Have some you ever just thought that Sakurai just loves Fire Emblem

like REALLY loves it

like "has written articles about it for free to game magazines" loves it

Goes to concerts and expo just for it and gives out speeches

its his favorite series


there is no conspiracy with Byleth getting in.
Dude was probably wheezing in excitement while playing FE3H.

If that's the case then the people saying he should be fired are 100% correct.

 

[cosmicB]

I don't know. Maybe it is because Super Mario is Nintendo's biggest franchise that's only rivaled by Pokemon?

Super Mario>=Pokemon>>Zelda>>>Fire Emblem>>Metroid

I have no doubt that Fire Emblem will end up bigger than Zelda from a pure money-making standpoint over the next decade, and that could happen if they never made another console FE game again. That is unless of course Nintendo manages to make some kind of Zelda mobile game that actually catches on unlike most of their other endeavors.

It really can't be understated just how crazy Fire Emblem Heroes is even if we assume the bulk of the money it's making is from whales. It's also almost all Nintendo unlike Pokemon Go with Niantic. Poor IS probably isn't getting the cut they deserve from that even if it's relatively low effort compared to the hundred+ team giants of the mainline games.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

Calling it now: By the end of the year basically no one will like Sakurai anymore.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Calling it now: By the end of the year basically no one will like Sakurai anymore.

I'll take that bet.

People loved him through 4/5 of those character announcements, and they'll go right back to loving him after the next character is announced.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

If that's the case then the people saying he should be fired are 100% correct.

idk, if you've been working yourself to death making one of the biggest crossovers in video game history and maybe even pop culture in general, I'd say you're more than entitled to a couple personal picks of your own

 

[SKX31]

I like Fire Emblem but I really can't defend the amount of love it got in Smash. Sakurai loves the series and he gave it a lot of attention, that's all there is to it.

Apparently Intelligent Systems considered it:

It’s not a zero percent chance, but we would need to think about what would be the right idea and the right concept for bringing Advance Wars to mobile. Of course, that’s stuff that we really have to think on. It would really give us a lot of encouragement and energy if we heard from the fans that they want it. So please keep asking for it and tell us what you’d like to see!

But nothing has happened so far evidently. I definetely think AW could be a decent if not great fit for mobile - Fire Emblem Heroes proved it and then some. Still, there's a great point in there: what would be the right idea and the right concept? Sometimes the solution can be a weird one. For example - would you consider combining Tom and Jerry with Dead by Daylight at first glance?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

And yet the combination actually exists.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Calling it now: By the end of the year basically no one will like Sakurai anymore.

How about 200 euros, cause I'll gladly take that bet

 

[DarthEnderX]

idk, if you've been working yourself to death making one of the biggest crossovers in video game history and maybe even pop culture in general, I'd say you're more than entitled to a couple personal picks of your own

Agreed!

I just wish he had better personal taste...

 

[cosmicB]

I can defend it. Here, lemme try.

Multiple characters were chosen out of pure circumstance: Roy to fill out the roster and promote his coming game due to convenient timing and lack of substantial effort, then Lucina due to not working as a Marth skin to Sakurai's liking and, again, filling out the roster.

Corrin was then chosen in much the same way Roy was: in order to promote a coming game because Nintendo saw a huge upswing in Fire Emblem in the west and wanted to capitalize on it. Sakurai wasn't even sure it was a good idea at first, as written in Famitsu (paraphrasing from the English article covering it):


Then Ultimate's whole pitch was "EVERYONE IS HERE". Everyone includes every single one, which bolsters FE in particular because that demands clones (Roy, Lucina) and unpopular picks (Corrin) to satisfy that promise. Not to mention Roy was added to Smash 4 due to fan demand, then Chrom to Ultimate, again, due to fan demand.


Let's stop pretending there are no FE fans asking for these characters. There are a lot of them.

To add to this, Sakurai admittedly does not consider echoes to be separate fighters. There are of course subtle differences among all the Marth clones, but Sakurai has insinuated they're much lower effort compared to "real" new characters development-wise. We could be looking at characters that take weeks to a month to develop in comparison to the 6-10 months it takes to develop new non-echo fighters.

Of course that's just my speculation, especially since for whatever reason Sakurai does not consider Roy an echo. And even with all that, that still puts FE at 5 distinct characters.

 

[I.D.]

It really can't be understated just how crazy Fire Emblem Heroes is even if we assume the bulk of the money it's making is from whales. It's also almost all Nintendo unlike Pokemon Go with Niantic. Poor IS probably isn't getting the cut they deserve from that even if it's relatively low effort compared to the hundred+ team giants of the mainline games.

Sure it can. Fire Emblem Heroes is a blip in the radar compared to the big gacha games. Granblue Fantasy makes in a single year what Heroes has made over its entire existence. Fate/Grand Order makes it in 6 months.

 

[staindgrey]

Agreed!

I just wish he had better personal taste...

Me too.

Why the hell is Joker here.

 

[Nemuresu]

Just for the matter being, here are USA's top selling Switch games of 2019:

1.- Super Smash Bros. Ultimate
2.- Mario Kart 8
3.- Pokémon Sword
4.- Luigi's Mansion 3
5.- New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe
6.- The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
7.- Pokémon Shield
8.- Super Mario Maker 2
9.- The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening
10.- Super Mario Party

Everyone is free to show their own cases as to why Fire Emblem deserves those eight characters (and I'm sure some have already done so), but suggesting it comes close to Mario, Zelda and Pokémon isn't a good one in any fashion.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

If that's the case then the people saying he should be fired are 100% correct.

Yea lets fire him

* quality of DLC and updates starts to slowly get worse *

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'm not complaining that Mario has too many, I'm just sick of people complaining about too many FE reps. If they wanna complain about over saturation, complain about that instead.

Mario and Pokemon are, like, 10x more popular than FE. They deserve to have that many reps. FE doesn't.

And for people who nag about Fire Emblem overrepresentation, here's a question: what is your ideal number of Fire Emblem reps?

Marth(with Roy, Chrom, Ike, Lucina, etc. as alt costumes)
Robin
Byleth

 

[Rangez]

Mario and Pokemon are, like, 10x more popular than FE. They deserve to have that many reps. FE doesn't.

Why exactly should deservedness and popularity matter with this?

 

[Opossum]

It's almost like the upper limit for characters a series can have shouldn't be determined by its size. Imagine that.

 

[cosmicB]

Sure it can. Fire Emblem Heroes is a blip in the radar compared to the big gacha games. Granblue Fantasy makes in a single year what Heroes has made over its entire existence. Fate/Grand Order makes it in 6 months.

But we're not comparing it to other Gachas (FGO is untouchable), we're comparing it to other Nintendo franchises, even in the mobile sphere outside of Pokemon Go. Pocket Camp is an ant relative to everything else, and let's not even talk about Mario Run. I'll admit I haven't looked far into the Mario Kart Tour success, which I guess could give FEH a run for it's money.

But either way, FEH at this point has made more money than Breath of the Wild. That's a pretty big deal and it shows no signs of slowing down.

 

[Garteam]

Did I just read that Ike should be a Marth alt

 

[Animegamingnerd]

If that's the case then the people saying he should be fired are 100% correct.

This is proof that the Smash fandom is one of the strongest contenders for worst fanbase.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I’ve never felt so validated in my life by a ****post.

Spoiler: Spoiled for language

Smash Bros got Byleth, but that's not the only Byleth it got...#FireEmblem #ThreeHouses #FireEmblemThreeHouses pic.twitter.com/xOcjGiJz6t

— Will Gravesaka (@Gravesaka) January 18, 2020

Basically it’s a Tweet using the Byleth reveal trailer, but putting a bunch of teacher things over it. As a teacher myself, hilarious. Absolute greatest thing I have seen in the last few weeks.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Did I just read that Ike should be a Marth alt

The fact that he isn't unique in the way (insert Byleth icon here) are creates the illusion that he is a clone.

 

[Opossum]

Did I just read that Ike should be a Marth alt

Anyone who advocates turning any of the existing Fire Emblem characters in Smash into alts should really think before posting.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

**** it, with the way some of you been acting despite getting K Rool, Ridley, and Banjo. I hope we get Sigurd to go alongside a Genealogy remake. Its what you all ****ing deserve.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Why exactly should deservedness and popularity matter with this?

Why shouldn't it?

The only people that don't think deserving a slot matters are people who want characters that don't deserve a slot.

Did I just read that Ike should be a Marth alt

You only think he shouldn't because Smash already gave him a unique moveset. In the FE games, he doesn't play any differently from any of the other Lord protags. He didn't deserve a unique moveset any more than Roy or Chrom did. He just happened to be the one that got one.

Anyone who advocates turning any of the existing Fire Emblem characters in Smash into alts should really think before posting.

Obviously there's no point to doing it now that they're already separate characters. It was a hypothetical "What SHOULD have happened".

 

[Cosmic77]

Shadows of Valentia didn't get a character.

I meant every very new installment in the series has gotten a character since Awakening, but that's actually still wrong.

Since Ike reps two games, the past five installments in the FE series have gotten a character in Smash. That's a longer chain than Pokemon, which hasn't gotten past two.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Deserving a slot doesn’t even mean anything.

Fictional characters don’t do anything to “deserve” a slot because they don’t have free will. The developers would be the ones to “deserve” anything.

Always disliked the use of that word with Smash.

 

[Knight Dude]

Ike being an alt for Marth is like saying Siegfried should be an alternate costume for Mitsurugi in a Soul Calibur game.

 

[Sari]

If that's the case then the people saying he should be fired are 100% correct.

Sakurai gave us Everyone Is Here!, added a ton of fan favorites like Ridley and Banjo, and made Ultimate so good that it became the best selling fighting-game in history.

But now you think he should be fired because he added a character from a popular game series that he happens to be a fan of?

This fanbase really is the worst.

 

[Brindor]

Are people still arguing about this crap?
It's been 2 days already.
T W O D A Y S A L R E A D Y

 

[TheCJBrine]

If you ask me, no series should have a limit.

 

[cosmicB]

Yeah, wanting Ike to be a Marth alt is crazy. Before Ult Ganon, he was the only bulky swordsman in the game, an archteype that imo is highly underrepresented (but I'm also biased because I like that playstyle a lot).

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Are people still arguing about this crap?
It's been 2 days already.
T W O D A Y S A L R E A D Y

Given how the Smash fanbase still debates and flips out over ROB, Corrin, and Incineroar, expect the Byleth freak outs to happen even a decade after Smash Ultimate.

 

[I.D.]

But either way, FEH at this point has made more money than Breath of the Wild. That's a pretty big deal and it shows no signs of slowing down.

Mind proving this? Considering BotW has sold over 15 million copies and then whatever extra DLC on top of that, I have a really hard time believing it.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Sakurai gave us Everyone Is Here!, added a ton of fan favorites like Ridley and Banjo, and made Ultimate so good that it became the best selling fighting-game in history.

But now you think he should be fired because he added a character from a popular game series that he happens to be a fan of?

This fanbase really is the worst.

You know, I think I am gonna stop even remotely defending the Smash fandom even from other fighting game fanbases. At this point with the drama that went on in the competitive scene last year with Zack and Ally, to how entitle everyone gets about "character slots" I think this fandom deserves every bit of **** thrown at us.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Are people still arguing about this crap?
It's been 2 days already.
T W O D A Y S A L R E A D Y

Fire Emblem arguments have been happening since Brawl, dude. And after Byleth's inclusion it seems they'll continue for years to come until the next game. And then another Fire Emblem character joins the next Smash and the cycle repeats itself once again.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Mind proving this? Considering BotW has sold over 15 million copies and then whatever extra DLC on top of that, I have a really hard time believing it.

Its a year old article, so for sure has made plenty more since then.
https://www.pocketgamer.biz/asia/ne...es-has-grossed-over-500-million-in-two-years/
We might get an more updated number by the end of the month with an investors meeting.

 

[Teeb147]

6 slots more gives plenty of room for speculation for some fan favorites.
Hope you all come to enjoy the next phase ;p

 

[SuperSceptile15]

...because the DLC wasn't revealed yet.

Except Sakurai only promotes the latest generation at release. For base roster he sets aside a spot for Pokémon. DLC is a different ball game, and with the flaming ball of controversy that is Sword and Shield, I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo didn't even include it on their lists. If it did, I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai went for other, more interesting or proven characters.

To be honest, I bet Nintendo and Sakurai aren't even concerned about the controversy. Regardless of the objective quality of Sword and Shield, it's an undeniable fact that they were successful and became the highest-selling games on the Switch. Considering that we just got Byleth to promote FE Three Houses DLC, I doubt the controversy will stop a Gen 8 rep from being added.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

Just for the matter being, here are USA's top selling Switch games of 2019:

Everyone is free to show their own cases as to why Fire Emblem deserves those eight characters (and I'm sure some have already done so), but suggesting it comes close to Mario, Zelda and Pokémon isn't a good one in any fashion.

Absolutely agreed. I haven’t been here in a while but just to give my thoughts on the matter, I do think Byleth will play very uniquely, I just think he’s almost unquestionably the most bland choice they could’ve made in terms of three houses, I mean he has literally no personality whatsoever from what I know.

People saying Sakurai should be fired for it though are legitimately pathetic, like I can’t even fathom how that’s a warranted thing to think

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'm not complaining that Mario has too many, I'm just sick of people complaining about too many FE reps. If they wanna complain about over saturation, complain about that instead.

Mario is Mario, all of the characters it has are more iconic than like 90% of the Smash roster and it still has tons of characters that fulfill that criteria. I think it's fair to take Mario as the standard bearer for other franchises.

In that respect the fact that Pokemon and Fire Emblem have shown more growth in the last two games than Mario is a very strong indicator that they're being overrepresented. With Pokemon some people will defend it because of its sheer size (something I don't agree with), but Fire Emblem has no such excuse.

I think this is a problem that won't go away until Sakurai starts spreading the love between the other first party franchises.