Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[RoboFist]

Legitimate questions here: we got news that more DLC fighters are incoming. That should, in theory, quell worries that the next character eliminates all of the others.

So why are we still trying to disqualify picks instead of thinking up new possibilities? Why are we still this concerned with comparing sales, "big series vs niche series" or "how influential game X is"? Why are we still nitpicking on "core Smash fanbase vs general gaming fans"?

I'm seeing more salt in this thread than I did before E3 and that's saying something. Especially considering we just got a bunch of really good announcements in a row. For the first time in a while, pretty much everyone has reason to celebrate, regardless of whose pick ends up getting in next.

Yet here we are, using measuring sticks of fan support and "relevance". While continuing to discuss the same 3 ~ 4 characters we've already talked about for the past 6 months.

Is this thing really fun for anyone? Honestly want to know here.

...

...oh wow, this is a very good question actually.

Thanks for grounding me here. Sincerely. I'm going to log off and go for a walk haha.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'm not getting the same 'third-parties only' vibe from PushDustin's translation that most of you are getting, but it's better to rip off the band-aid early on. Gotta say though, very disappointed in Smash right now - feels like they just want to turn it into a tool to promote themselves by appealing to whatever fanbase they can.

 

[cothero]

Yeah, third parties seem to be the future. First Party characters from probably done. Maybe they'll add newer Switch characters in the future, but I full expect newcomers, like the ones in the picture below.

Yeah, i can only see Nintendo adding first party characters via DLC for promotion reasons and that's still kinda unlikely. I feel that Sakurai added all potential Nintendo characters he wanted in the base roster, so i wouldn't expect characters like Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee or Geno (yes, he's under the Mario franchise, so he's Nintendo property) to join Smash so soon. Xenoblade and Fire Emblem characters are the only exceptions i can think of and that's pretty much biased at this point.

 

[Curious Villager]

and Professor Layton having a constant presence with games and the anime, even now.

To add to that, the second, third and fourth best selling DS third party games have all been Layton games, only being beaten out by a Dragon Quest game (Which ironically was also developed by Level-5) The series was a pretty huge hit during the DS era, an era of Nintendo that Smash unfortunately hasn't delved much into...

Plus the series has sold over 17 million copies as of last year, which is more than some third parties already in the game have, not to mention other media promotions such as a movie, novels, manga's, spin off games and an anime series etc.


Eitherway though, I think its good that Smash also delves into smaller franchises from time to time and introduces players to new series they may have never tried out before rather than solely relying on the largest series out there, if it wasn't for Smash, series like Earthbound would have probably remained an obscure little series that not many people have heard of, or there probably wouldn't have been as much demand to see the F-Zero series revived. Fire Emblem would have probably never made it overseas either. Which may or may not be a good thing depending on who ask I guess....

I think its great that Smash can have that potential to breathe new life into smaller series and introduce it to a wider audience. I think Sakurai himself commented on the potential that Smash can have as a series.

But that's just my two cents on that.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Legitimate questions here: we got news that more DLC fighters are incoming. That should, in theory, quell worries that the next character eliminates all of the others.

So why are we still trying to disqualify picks instead of thinking up new possibilities? Why are we still this concerned with comparing sales, "big series vs niche series" or "how influential game X is"? Why are we still nitpicking on "core Smash fanbase vs general gaming fans"?

I'm seeing more salt in this thread than I did before E3 and that's saying something. Especially considering we just got a bunch of really good announcements in a row. For the first time in a while, pretty much everyone has reason to celebrate, regardless of whose pick ends up getting in next.

Yet here we are, using measuring sticks of fan support and "relevance". While continuing to discuss the same 3 ~ 4 characters we've already talked about for the past 6 months.

Is this thing really fun for anyone? Honestly want to know here.

This is regular Smash speculation. I've been around long enough and this is far from the worst I've seen.

If you're feeling burnt out it's best to take a break. It's going to be like this for a very long time.

 

[merchantofsalt]

I mean... this thread is inherently basic speculation. There's nothing to do but shoot the breeze until the next bit of news. And it's not like people are threatening to cut each other's throats over Sora or Reimu or Shantae.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I mean, you can hate a "lukewarm" jerk reaction and an overreaction all you want but 4-5 years down the road no ones going to care. Even the hate for Corrin has largely died out despite how overtly negative their reveal was.

 

[Deleted member]

Legitimate questions here: we got news that more DLC fighters are incoming. That should, in theory, quell worries that the next character eliminates all of the others.

So why are we still trying to disqualify picks instead of thinking up new possibilities? Why are we still this concerned with comparing sales, "big series vs niche series" or "how influential game X is"? Why are we still nitpicking on "core Smash fanbase vs general gaming fans"?

I'm seeing more salt in this thread than I did before E3 and that's saying something. Especially considering we just got a bunch of really good announcements in a row. For the first time in a while, pretty much everyone has reason to celebrate, regardless of whose pick ends up getting in next.

Yet here we are, using measuring sticks of fan support and "relevance". While continuing to discuss the same 3 ~ 4 characters we've already talked about for the past 6 months.

Is this thing really fun for anyone? Honestly want to know here.

Gonna be honest, I completely agree.

People tend to treat Smash speculation as if it was some sort of debate regarding who is without a doubt joining the roster... When in reality speculation can just be a method to put all these characters, share all the stuff that could go for or against them and overall speculate the characters themselves.

We shouldn’t be making questions such as “Who is getting in?” or “Is X character getting over Y character”.... but rather questions such as “What could make X character seem likely” or “Why could I doubt certain picks”.

In the end we shouldn’t have too much worry about specific picks not getting in, because in the end Sakurai is trying its hardest to give as much equal care as legally possible to each fighter he adds.
We should be open to any pick Sakurai offers to us, even if we know nothing about them. That way was how Smash made me get invested in Metroid as a series and recently got me curious about buying KoF XV with Terry.

 

[Nquoid]

You mean like the Geno fanbase? Or the Banjo fanbase? Or the K. Rool fanbase?

Thanks for turning my sincere question into a snide answer! I'll do better next time than to want to understand ****

 

[Deathcarter]

>Puyo Puyo, Tales of, Level 5, Ninja Gaiden/DoA, and Touhou
>Niche

I'm sorry, but I can't take this argument seriously. Especially since you acknowledge how biased it is.



Essentially, Popularity in America=/=Worldwide Popularity.

Are Touhou, Puyo Puyo, Dead or Alive, and Tales even major franchises anywhere outside of Japan (or anywhere in DoA's case)? Popularity in Japan =/= Worldwide popularity applies just as well.

There's also the fact that there's more to a character's inclusion than just popularity. Isn't that what you and others were trying to get across in the whole 1st vs. 3rd party characters debate?

SNK fighting games are in a fairly unique situation compared to the other represented franchises in Smash and have a genuine claim to worldwide popularity despite lack of American popularity that I don't think a lot of relatively smaller franchises like Puyo Puyo or Tales can immediately claim. That and it was the direct inspiration for Smash itself alongside Kirby Super Star so I'm more willing to defend its inclusion even if there are other franchises I'd like to see more. I can't think of many other games that have a huge legacy for an entire major genre that are obscure in the West.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Thanks for turning my sincere question into a snide answer! I'll do better next time than to want to understand ****

All I'm saying is the argument that "A core fanbase supporting a property for a long amount of time" can be qualification enough, such as in the case of K. Rool or Banjo. For what it's worth, Touhou has a dedicated fanbase worldwide, even if it's much smaller than in Japan.

Are Touhou, Puyo Puyo, Dead or Alive, and Tales even major franchises anywhere outside of Japan (or anywhere in DoA's case)? Popularity in Japan =/= Worldwide popularity applies just as well.


SNK fighting games are in a fairly unique situation compared to the other represented franchises in Smash and have a genuine claim to worldwide popularity despite lack of American popularity that I don't think a lot of relatively smaller franchises like Puyo Puyo or Tales can immediately claim. That and it was the direct inspiration for Smash itself alongside Kirby Super Star so I'm more willing to defend its inclusion even if there are other franchises I'd like to see more. I can't think of many other games that have a huge legacy for an entire major genre that are obscure in the West.

But evidently popularity in Japan is more important than popularity in America alone. Otherwise we'd have seen more characters popular in the West (Isaac, Geno, etc.) instead of characters primarily popular in Japan and America. Dragon Quest also stands out as a prominent Japanese-focused pick.

The claim that SNK games are have "worldwide popularity" is kind of ironic seeing as the general consensus here has been that they don't, hence the name "Hat Ken." I remembering arguing that less than a week ago and getting rebuked to hell and back.

 

[NurpNurp]

You mean like the Geno fanbase? Or the Banjo fanbase? Or the K. Rool fanbase?

But the difference between all of those is that they also weren't indie games from indie devs. I'll eat crow if Reimu gets in, even as a costume, but the current precedent really shows that indies don't exactly get fighters

EDIT: Also these previous characters have all still been on Nintendo systems before. Joker certainly proves that you don't NEED to be on a Nintendo platform to be viable but he seems more like an exception than the rule

 

[merchantofsalt]

All I'm saying is the argument that "A core fanbase supporting a property for a long amount of time" can be qualification enough, such as in the case of K. Rool or Banjo. For what it's worth, Touhou has a dedicated fanbase worldwide, even if it's much smaller than in Japan.

But evidently popularity in Japan is more important than popularity in America alone. Otherwise we'd have seen more characters popular in the West (Isaac, Geno, etc.) instead of characters primarily popular in Japan and America. Dragon Quest also stands out as a prominent Japanese-focused pick.

The claim that SNK games are have "worldwide popularity" is kind of ironic seeing as the general consensus here has been that they don't, hence the name "Hat Ken." I remembering arguing that less than a week ago and getting rebuked to hell and back.

SNK is massive in Latin America and China.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

I'm not getting the same 'third-parties only' vibe from PushDustin's translation that most of you are getting, but it's better to rip off the band-aid early on. Gotta say though, very disappointed in Smash right now - feels like they just want to turn it into a tool to promote themselves by appealing to whatever fanbase they can.

I couldn't agree more. What happened to Smash? Guests were once treated as a novelty, not a norm. They're putting too much emphasis on relationships and not on their own fanbase. At this point, I will lose my patience if Piranha Plant is the only new DLC first-party.

 

[Renjamin]

Legitimate questions here: we got news that more DLC fighters are incoming. That should, in theory, quell worries that the next character eliminates all of the others.

So why are we still trying to disqualify picks instead of thinking up new possibilities? Why are we still this concerned with comparing sales, "big series vs niche series" or "how influential game X is"? Why are we still nitpicking on "core Smash fanbase vs general gaming fans"?

I'm seeing more salt in this thread than I did before E3 and that's saying something. Especially considering we just got a bunch of really good announcements in a row. For the first time in a while, pretty much everyone has reason to celebrate, regardless of whose pick ends up getting in next.

Yet here we are, using measuring sticks of fan support and "relevance". While continuing to discuss the same 3 ~ 4 characters we've already talked about for the past 6 months.

Is this thing really fun for anyone? Honestly want to know here.

I think maybe the reason is that with Smash's growth to being a 'Museum of gaming' people now think that if their favorite character ever isn't in it's an insult to their legacy. 'How dare people claim Doomslayer is more important than Sora?' , 'Do you really think a new, flash in the pan character will beat out a NES icon?' Excetera, excetera.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

SNK is massive in Latin America and China.

Yes. I have said that.

But I have also been told that I am wrong, and since SNK isn't super popular in America it does not have "worldwide popularity." To see someone else make the claim and people agree with it is ironic since literally days ago very little people did.

But the difference between all of those is that they also weren't indie games from indie devs. I'll eat crow if Reimu gets in, even as a costume, but the current precedent really shows that indies don't exactly get fighters

Both were dead characters though. Neither had seen a serious appearance after the 90s (I'm not counting Nuts and Bolts), but the support of fans is what got them into the game. Similarly, the support of fans could be what gets Touhou into the game in some form.

Aren't we supposed to not be excluding characters or something like that? All of this feels very gatekeep-y and exclusionary if you ask me.

 

[3BitSaurus]

This is regular Smash speculation. I've been around long enough and this is far from the worst I've seen.

If you're feeling burnt out it's best to take a break. It's going to be like this for a very long time.

I may have only joined Smashboards formally this year, but I've been a lurker for some time before that. Some salt is to be expected and I know of some really bad **** that goes down from time to time (not necessarily in this thread). What ticks me off about this is that this is a perfectly avoidable situation. All we have to do is just... not assume people are ******** by default.

And I'm sorry to say this, but it's kinda hard to take your advice to take a break seriously if you're responding to most people who disagree with you as if they're personally attacking you.

I get that people get heated sometimes (I won't pretend I'm not guilty of that either). But I really think we should all cool our jets here. Or at least let them get heated for something else - like ****, we now know Mii Costumes can come with music. What series could we get like that? What does Terry's inclusion mean for other fighting game characters? If we get first parties, will they come with something else instead of stages? There are so many things we don't know at this point, and I just feel like all this snark is unproductive. Really unproductive.

Gonna be honest, I completely agree.

People tend to treat Smash speculation as if it was some sort of debate regarding who is without a doubt joining the roster... When in reality speculation can just be a method to put all these characters, share all the stuff that could go for or against them and overall speculate the characters themselves.

We shouldn’t be making questions such as “Who is getting in?” or “Is X character getting over Y character”.... but rather questions such as “What could make X character seem likely” or “Why could I doubt certain picks”.

In the end we shouldn’t have too much worry about specific picks not getting in, because in the end Sakurai is trying its hardest to give as much equal care as legally possible to each fighter he adds.
We should be open to any pick Sakurai offers to us, even if we know nothing about them. That way was how Smash made me get invested in Metroid as a series and recently got me curious about buying KoF XV with Terry.

This. So much.

It's perfectly reasonable to consider certain characters more or less likely, but when people start thinking "I'm unbiased", chances are they really aren't. And I find it funny that some of the people who were ******** on Hero, Banjo or Terry can't take it when other people find their characters unlikely. Best to just accept new inclusions for what they are and be surprised when it is something you were looking for.

By the way, play DQXI, Banjo-Kazooie and Fatal Fury. They're all fantastic games, people.

 

[Nquoid]

All I'm saying is the argument that "A core fanbase supporting a property for a long amount of time" can be qualification enough, such as in the case of K. Rool or Banjo. For what it's worth, Touhou has a dedicated fanbase worldwide, even if it's much smaller than in Japan.

Right but Banjo, K. Rool and Geno are all from games very relevant for Nintendo and whilst those characters have waxed and waned, those games continue to get re-released and still get talked about as great examples of their genres.

Like are the Touhou games actually popular? Because it feels like the fanbase is based around the music, the cosplay and so much else surrounding the games. I know the games are sold at comiket, but does it sell a lot? Or is the fanbase just that passionate that it doesn't really matter?

And again, no offense to anyone who obviously deeply loves the franchise, anything that elicits this much fervor is obviously doing something right.

 

[ze9]

I disagree lol. I hope the rest of the DLC is 100% retro Japanese characters that leave everyone under 25 seething.

Just posting to say that I agree hard.

 

[NurpNurp]

Both were dead characters though. Neither had seen a serious appearance after the 90s (I'm not counting Nuts and Bolts), but the support of fans is what got them into the game. Similarly, the support of fans could be what gets Touhou into the game in some form.

Aren't we supposed to not be excluding characters or something like that? All of this feels very gatekeep-y and exclusionary if you ask me.

My intention wasn't to gatekeep (though now it certainly seems like I am) I wanted to refute your statement that TouHou was not niche because I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary personally.

I've got no problem with anyone getting into Smash even if I don't understand why they were chosen, but I don't think we should stop calling things niche just because they have a vocal fanbase

 

[Opossum]

Yes. I have said that.

But I have also been told that I am wrong, and since SNK isn't super popular in America it does not have "worldwide popularity." To see someone else make the claim and people agree with it is ironic since literally days ago very little people did.

Both were dead characters though. Neither had seen a serious appearance after the 90s (I'm not counting Nuts and Bolts), but the support of fans is what got them into the game. Similarly, the support of fans could be what gets Touhou into the game in some form.

Aren't we supposed to not be excluding characters or something like that? All of this feels very gatekeep-y and exclusionary if you ask me.

I'm just saying, there's a certain degree of irony when right before you say this feels like gatekeeping, you also claim Nuts and Bolts doesn't count as a Banjo-Kazooie game.

 

[Deleted member]

My whole life regarding Smash speculation can actually be summarized in a never ending cycle.

This screenshot of a Discord post I made does completely sumarize all the stuff I lived inside the Smash fandom:

 

[StormC]

DaybreakHorizon I'm just gonna come out and say it: it feels like you're contributing to the general hostility and anxiety with your tendency to jump on people for disagreeing with them or acting like a video game industry expert. That isn't to say I have never been guilty of this, but after personally being BTFO a week ago regarding Smash speculation, we can all agree to try to be a little more open minded and not keep our expectations so rigid, I think.

It comes off as dismissive.

 

[Calamitas]

I couldn't agree more. What happened to Smash? Guests were once treated as a novelty, not a norm. They're putting too much emphasis on relationships and not on their own fanbase. At this point, I will lose my patience if Piranha Plant is the only new DLC first-party.

That honestly puts it best. I enjoy Smash primarily as a Nintendo crossover with some guests, not as a "gaming celebration" with tons of series that I have 0 connection with.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I may have only joined Smashboards formally this year, but I've been a lurker for some time before that. Some salt is to be expected and I know of some really bad **** that goes down from time to time (not necessarily in this thread). What ticks me off about this is that this is a perfectly avoidable situation. All we have to do is just... not assume people are ******** by default.

And I'm sorry to say this, but it's kinda hard to take your advice to take a break seriously if you're responding to most people who disagree with you as if they're personally attacking you.

I get that people get heated sometimes (I won't pretend I'm not guilty of that either). But I really think we should all cool our jets here. Or at least let them get heated for something else - like ****, we now know Mii Costumes can come with music. What series could we get like that? What does Terry's inclusion mean for other fighting game characters? If we get first parties, will they come with something else instead of stages? There are so many things we don't know at this point, and I just feel like all this snark is unproductive. Really unproductive.

DaybreakHorizon I'm just gonna come out and say it: it feels like you're contributing to the general hostility and anxiety with your tendency to jump on people for disagreeing with them or acting like a video game industry expert. That isn't to say I have never been guilty of this, but after basically being BTFO a week ago regarding Smash speculation, we can all agree to try to be a little more open minded and not keep our expectations so rigid, I think.

It comes off as dismissive.

I don't necessarily see how bad this is.

Like, the Square Enix thread was by far worse than this, and the Ultimate General Thread had multiple descents into absolute madness where the mods had to either step in and bring in the BOLD TEXT(tm) or straight up lock the thread. Comparatively, this thread's been pretty tame. I've only seen the BOLD TEXT(tm) like, twice for off-topic conversation.

I'll acknowledge that yeah, I can come off as combative, but I come here for speculation, and I expect actual arguments. Instead I find a lot of bias and ignorance. It's annoying arguing a point only for someone to come and either misunderstand it or plain not read it, and repeating that process ad nauseum.

I guess I'll just back off for now since it's clear I'm not all that welcome. I'll acknowledge I've invited some of that on myself, but regardless it's certainly not fun being jumped on by a majority of the thread.

Bya.

 

[SKX31]

Yes. I have said that.

But I have also been told that I am wrong, and since SNK isn't super popular in America it does not have "worldwide popularity." To see someone else make the claim and people agree with it is ironic since literally days ago very little people did.

I don't think a franchise needs to check all the boxes to qualify. SNK had evidently some presence in America - not neccessarily huge, mind. My own bias leads me to one of my favorite games: Dota 2. Its casual playerbase is not huge in America, and its professional results have been somewhat spotty outside of Evil Geniuses who are always a top-tier threat - having won one International (World Championship) in 2015. Still, its presence in America adds to Dota 2's worldwide popularity. Especially when Seattle was Dota 2's "capital" for a very long time.

 

[StormC]

I'll acknowledge that yeah, I can come off as combative, but I come here for speculation, and I expect actual arguments. Instead I find a lot of bias and ignorance.

Because you or I or anyone else has never been biased or ignorant? Relax, dude, it's a video game. People are here to have fun. You can debate people respectfully without looking like you have something to prove.

 

[NurpNurp]

That honestly puts it best. I enjoy Smash primarily as a Nintendo crossover with some guests, not as a "gaming celebration" with tons of series that I have 0 connection with.

I think there's some allure to Smash drawing in third parties, though I'm heavily biased considering

I definitely understand the dislike though, especially consider the mixed receptions of Terry and Hero

 

[3BitSaurus]

My whole life regarding Smash speculation can actually be summarized in a never ending cycle.

This screenshot of a Discord post I made does completely sumarize all the stuff I lived inside the Smash fandom:

Spoiler: In case people don't want to talk about this and resume speculation:

(Removed the screencap for mobile convenience.)

In recent times, I think I'm actually starting to understand why this **** happens - it may have to do with Smash's nature. The thing with games that try to extend their branches into several different places is that they also bring in every separate toxic segment from those places.

About a year ago, when I was still big into Overwatch, I remember watching a video from a pro player regarding burnout and community toxicity. He gave this exact explanation - because Overwatch appealed to several different smaller fanbases (shooter base, MOBA base, to an extent a more anime/cartoon base, etc), it also pulled in toxic people from all of those bases, each trying to make the game theirs and theirs alone.

Now imagine this exact thing with a game that has literally 36 different franchises in it (if you only count the fighters) and boom. No wonder we have such an awful reputation.

But enough about this. I didn't make my original post to deviate us from speculation, after all.

What do you think the chances are for another character from Square? I'm particularly hopeful for Geno, Sora or 2B, but I'm really not that confident, if only because they seem harder to work with (not necessarily stingy, they just have more... legal stuff on the way, I guess).

 

[merchantofsalt]

Yes. I have said that.

Most people on this board live in North America or Western Europe, so their perception was is popular and isn't will be colored by their experiences, as well as Western/English online presence. But as a Latin American I can tell you that down the street from my house is an arcade where people are playing KOF right now. So it's relative.

 

[Icedragonadam]

You know I've been thinking. A lot of people assume that additional fighters = Season 2 DLC. But part of me seems to think they're just an extra independant 2 fighters that will come in February because of the devs having spare time as it seems that Terry and DLC 5 are coming earlier than what the fanbase expected. Especially if Terry is early November.

 

[NurpNurp]

But enough about this. I didn't make my original post to deviate us from speculation, after all.

What do you think the chances are for another character from Square? I'm particularly hopeful for Geno, Sora or 2B, but I'm really not that confident, if only because they seem harder to work with (not necessarily stingy, they just have more... legal stuff on the way, I guess).

I'm all for it. I wasn't a big fan of Automata, but a friend of mine is a huge Nier fan and he'd kill to have her. Personally if I could have any Square character though, it'd probably be Sora.

 

[Nekoo]

My whole life regarding Smash speculation can actually be summarized in a never ending cycle.

This screenshot of a Discord post I made does completely sumarize all the stuff I lived inside the Smash fandom:

View attachment 237841

And I'll repeat again what I told you on Discord.
You're REALLY REALLY pushing and lying for DQ8 Hero, as I was the one to start the possibility of him being an Alt in the General Thread back in the days of "MUH ERDRICK" when I said that there was a strong posibility that Hero could just have Alt, and you were happy and pushed for him too.
And literally, NO ONE, genuinely, NOBODY, EVER, said ANYTHING bad about DQ8 Hero, actually, everyone agreed that he would be absolutely dope.

I can count like on my hands the people who bashed Crash Bandicoot or said it was ****.
K.Rool had the ****ing biggest support for god knows how long.
People were BEGGING for a Metroid Reps.

People can have dumb arguments at times, but if you think this is bad, I'll repeat to you, you've seen nothing when you were a Cloud fans in Smash 4 and he's "Never Happening." or genuinely seen as a joke/Runing gag for the "He's never happening" "MUH CHOCOBO BLACKMAGE MOGS" or Sora because "LOL MICKEY HEAD ON HIS KEYCHAIN!!! DECONFIRMED!!!NOT VIDEO GAMES!!"

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

My opinion on third parties (and all characters) is that they shouldn't feel out of place next to Mario. I don't care that much whether characters are first or third party. Most people here seem to disagree, and I think that's a big part of why there's so much third party demand. A lot of the big third party characters being discussed wouldn't have support if people cared that they, for example, Doomguy, is wildly out of place next to Mario.

 

[Deleted member]

And I'll repeat again what I told you on Discord.
You're REALLY REALLY pushing and lying for DQ8 Hero, as I was the one to start the possibility of him being an Alt in the General Thread back in the days of "MUH ERDRICK" when I said that there was a strong posibility that Hero could just have Alt, and you were happy and pushed for him too.
And literally, NO ONE, genuinely, NOBODY, EVER, said ANYTHING bad about DQ8 Hero, actually, everyone agreed that he would be absolutely dope.

I can count like on my hands the people who bashed Crash Bandicoot or said it was ****.
K.Rool had the ****ing biggest support for god knows how long.
People were BEGGING for a Metroid Reps.

People can have dumb arguments at times, but if you think this is bad, I'll repeat to you, you've seen nothing when you were a Cloud fans in Smash 4 and he's "Never Happening." or genuinely seen as a joke/Runing gag for the "He's never happening" "MUH CHOCOBO BLACKMAGE MOGS" or Sora because "LOL MICKEY HEAD ON HIS KEYCHAIN!!! DECONFIRMED!!!NOT VIDEO GAMES!!"

I lived the Cloud thing too.

On Miiverse sure, but people did really give me hell back then for sharing any excitement for Cloud.

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

My whole life regarding Smash speculation can actually be summarized in a never ending cycle.

This screenshot of a Discord post I made does completely sumarize all the stuff I lived inside the Smash fandom:

that speech about speculation is pretty much the 1 of the few reasons why the smash fandom gets a pretty bad reputation.

 

[Deleted member]

that speech about speculation is pretty much the 1 of the few reasons why the smash fandom gets a pretty bad reputation.

I can see why.

And while what Nekoo said is to some extent true since thankfully there were some exceptions of those kinds of cases, they weren't the rule on the internet in general. Discord and this site did to some extent take it easier with me, but many other places were tougher. And sadly it is hard to forget most of the stuff I got told.

I personally think that my case could be mostly a case of awful luck.

 

[Deathcarter]

But evidently popularity in Japan is more important than popularity in America alone. Otherwise we'd have seen more characters popular in the West (Isaac, Geno, etc.) instead of characters primarily popular in Japan and America. Dragon Quest also stands out as a prominent Japanese-focused pick.

I consider the lack of big Western made 3rd party franchise a serious hole in the roster considering all of the noise Nintendo makes about Ultimate being the biggest crossover in gaming history and not just Japanese history. That the head honcho himself supposedly doesn't care is a flaw in my book regardless of Ultimate's success now that we've allegedly moved past putting any importance on having more 1st newcomers or Nintendo centric 3rd party franchises post-Ultimate release.

The claim that SNK games are have "worldwide popularity" is kind of ironic seeing as the general consensus here has been that they don't, hence the name "Hat Ken." I remembering arguing that less than a week ago and getting rebuked to hell and back.

Lot's of Smash fans are idiots, trust me I know. And I also understand that not every pick has or should to be made towards Western tastes less you exclude some major franchises (I'm interested to know of any remaining notable non-mobile Japanese franchises after Dragon Quest and King of Fighters that are obscure over here), but at the end of the day I do have a bit of sentimental attachment to this dysfunctional fanbase & I like seeing them be happy. You can't make everyone happy but I feel Western fans would respond more positively or at least more loudly to a Doom Slayer or a Tracer or Steve than they would a Joker or Hero or Terry.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I'm all for it. I wasn't a big fan of Automata, but a friend of mine is a huge Nier fan and he'd kill to have her. Personally if I could have any Square character though, it'd probably be Sora.

Yeah, I've loved Nier since the original one. The fact that Automata was even made is nothing short of a miracle to me, considering the first was pretty niche.

My personal guess is that Sora and Geno would be the frontrunners, and both have a great amount of fan demand. It's kinda like the Phoenix/Jill thing people bring up - both have their history, good points, and would bring new things to Smash so it could go either way, depending on who Sakurai wants.

The only worry I have with either is content, as both belong to the Square side of things (KHI still had the Squaresoft label), which makes me wonder about copright divisions. So I hope that Yoko Shimomura can pull some strings for songs, because God ****, is KH's soundtrack good.

 

[NurpNurp]

Yeah, I've loved Nier since the original one. The fact that Automata was even made is nothing short of a miracle to me, considering the first was pretty niche.

My personal guess is that Sora and Geno would be the frontrunners, and both have a great amount of fan demand. It's kinda like the Phoenix/Jill thing people bring up - both have their history, good points, and would bring new things to Smash so it could go either way, depending on who Sakurai wants.

The only worry I have with either is content, as both belong to the Square side of things (KHI still has the Squaresoft label), which makes me wonder about copright divisions. So I hope that Yoko Shimomura can pull some strings for songs, because God ****, is KH's soundtrack good.

I think Sora might have more of a chance if we go by the whole "Pack 2 won't have stages" idea. There's nothing set in stone saying that's the case, but it seems incredibly likely that there wouldn't be stages to me at least, and that would mean that Sora would have no music conflicts with Disney. I just hope if he does get in and if he has a command menu similar to Hero that they keep the KH menu sound effects because I am unreasonably nostalgic for those sounds