Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You know, I'm surprised Frogger doesn't get talked about more often. Another classic, household name Konami rep whose moveset would be pretty interesting (a tongue-based grappler, perhaps?). I'd be down for Frogger. With a render similar to this.

Spoiler

View attachment 223169

He doesn't even have a cameo in Smash itself. I find that weird since he's such an important piece of gaming history. Not even a spirit? Konami said no? Did they not think of using him? Who knows. I don't consider it some case he was picked for DLC or is likely or anything, I'm just surprised.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Not even a spirit?

Speaking of which, I wonder why characters in Pac-Man's Namco roulette aren't spirits. They have the license to use them, and I can easily think of a battle for the Prince: Vs. tiny green Olimar w/Kirby ally, items are pulled towards Kirby.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Speaking of which, I wonder why characters in Pac-Man's Namco roulette aren't spirits. They have the license to use them, and I can easily think of a battle for the Prince: Vs. tiny green Olimar w/Kirby ally, items are pulled towards Kirby.

Well, licensing isn't always that simple. Sometimes you can be licensed to use a character how you want, or in a specific context. It's as simple as saying these guys are solely to be allowed in Pac-Man's moveset and nothing else.

This could be why Jane isn't there as well. It might've been costume or nothing.

 

[Robdelia]

He doesn't even have a cameo in Smash itself. I find that weird since he's such an important piece of gaming history. Not even a spirit? Konami said no? Did they not think of using him? Who knows. I don't consider it some case he was picked for DLC or is likely or anything, I'm just surprised.

If we're on the subject of weirdly-absent Konami games, kinda odd that there is no Contra representation in the game at all.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If we're on the subject of weirdly-absent Konami games, kinda odd that there is no Contra representation in the game at all.

Frogger is on another level, but there's that too.

However, it might not be as odd as we think; most of the Spirits were chosen by Sakurai's staff. He then just approved the final list. Maybe they didn't come up?

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

You know, I'm surprised Frogger doesn't get talked about more often. Another classic, household name Konami rep whose moveset would be pretty interesting (a tongue-based grappler, perhaps?). I'd be down for Frogger. With a render similar to this.

Spoiler

View attachment 223169

I think the main thing holding back Frogger is his design. Most people don’t associate Frogger with that anthropomorphic design, they associate the game with a regular old frog or maybe even the arcade cabinet side art with the frog with a tie and briefcase.

 

[Gameboi834]

I think the main thing holding back Frogger is his design. Most people don’t associate Frogger with that anthropomorphic design, they associate the game with a regular old frog or maybe even the arcade cabinet side art with the frog with a tie and briefcase.

I was thinking about that, and I think a counterpoint to that would have to be Pac-Man, who's in a very similar position. They used an updated Pac-Land design rather than purely a 2D sprite, his original cabinet art, or his new redesign. Whoever negotiated Pac-Man's appearance got the (arguably) most appealing one.

Oh, and another thought I had along with Frogger but forgot about: what does everyone think about the chances of the Yokai Watch protagonist? The series has become somewhat of an instant classic, and I could easily see it making bank from kids across the world. "It holds the unique distinction of being the first IP not owned by Nintendo to sell over 1 million copies on launch week in Japan alone since Monster Hunter."

 

[BluePikmin11]

Yeah, Frogger's modern design is pretty great. It's not terrible like Pac-Man's Ghostly adventure design.

It's a great modernization of the iconic game character IMO. It gives me the Sonic Adventure official art vibes of good.

 

[Robdelia]

I was thinking about that, and I think a counterpoint to that would have to be Pac-Man, who's in a very similar position. They used an updated Pac-Land design rather than purely a 2D sprite, his original cabinet art, or his new redesign. Whoever negotiated Pac-Man's appearance got the (arguably) most appealing one.

Said Pac-Man design was previously used in another crossover game, Mario Kart GP, so it's not really that out there to pick that for Smash.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Said Pac-Man design was previously used in another crossover game, Mario Kart GP, so it's not really that out there to pick that for Smash.

As well as his more bipedal design is still highly iconic anyway. And I don't just mean the latest design which got re-used for Ghostly Adventures. Which isn't even that different from his main design. It's kind of a Link situation where they're all pretty much an iconic design, just varied. Except the games were good.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Um, I was just researching best selling franchises for a bit, and I may have missed a big one:

https://gematsu.com/2017/10/persona...on-megami-tensei-series-sales-top-7-2-million

• Puyo Puyo series (Launched 1991, Sales Account for after 1998) – Approx. 25 million units / downloads / IDs (packaged and digital, AM-registered ID total (total for registrations after IP acquisition))

I did not realize Puyo Puyo sold this well in Japan. It sold better than friggin Castlevania. I was open to big selling IPs in Japan like DQ, MH and Tales of but missed this?!?!?! ****.

 

[Flyboy]

Arle also consistently placed highly on Japanese ballot exit polls. If it wasn't for Joker she'd be a big one to keep an eye on, and I'm still not convinced she's not still in the conversation.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Um, I was just researching best selling franchises for a bit, and I may have missed a big one:

https://gematsu.com/2017/10/persona...on-megami-tensei-series-sales-top-7-2-million



I did not realize Puyo Puyo sold this well in Japan. It sold better than friggin Castlevania. I was open to big selling IPs in Japan like DQ, MH and Tales of but missed this?!?!?! ****.

Arle also consistently placed highly on Japanese ballot exit polls. If it wasn't for Joker she'd be a big one to keep an eye on, and I'm still not convinced she's not still in the conversation.

If memory serves, she was the Sega rep with the most votes back in the mock-Smash Ballot days. Joker wasn't a thing back then, but other high profile Sega characters, like Kiryu, were. So it's still a big deal.

That said, I still think her best chances reside in a second Fighter Pass. Dunno if Sakurai would put two characters that technically belong to the same company in a single DLC pack. It's possible, yes, but...

 

[Gameboi834]

TIL that Arle's primary antagonist is Satan, so that's pretty cool.

 

[Ovaltine]

TIL that Arle's primary antagonist is Satan, so that's pretty cool.

That moment when you realize that

Spoiler: Persona 5 spoilers

Joker has Satan/Satanael.

Looks like we know who he stole the invitation from.

 

[3BitSaurus]

TIL that Arle's primary antagonist is Satan, so that's pretty cool.

If she got in Ultimate, Dracula as her Classic mode boss would be the best possible reference to that IMO.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I fixed the roster:

Now all is right with the world. This feels like the definitive roster now. Now, how would you react if this was the final roster?

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I fixed the roster:

View attachment 223203

Now all is right with the world. This feels like the definitive roster now. Now, how would you react if this was the final roster?

I know I'm the one who suggested From Software, but I've honestly never played a souls game. Would Solaire be a good representative of Dark Souls? I know he had an amiibo, but i thought he was more of meme character with praising the sun and all that.

Also who is that you put ontop of cloud? he looks familiar but his name escapes me.

 

[Gameboi834]

I fixed the roster:

View attachment 223203

Now all is right with the world. This feels like the definitive roster now. Now, how would you react if this was the final roster?

Leon over Phoenix hurts my soul, personally, but this would be pretty hype for me.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Leon over Phoenix hurts my soul, personally, but this would be pretty hype for me.

I really can't argue with Phoenix over Leon since Resident Evil is out of his league, but I can see Phoenix contending over Monster Hunter or maybe even Dante.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I know I'm the one who suggested From Software, but I've honestly never played a souls game. Would Solaire be a good representative of Dark Souls? I know he had an amiibo, but i thought he was more of meme character with praising the sun and all that.

Also who is that you put ontop of cloud? he looks familiar but his name escapes me.

Honestly I have no ****ing clue. I just know Solaire is the big mascot of DS. I never played a DS game ever, but Solaire comes up pretty frequently.

The one on top of Cloud is Bub from Bubble Bobble, from one of the biggest Japanese companies Taito, who is responsible for the iconic Space Invaders.

 

[Ovaltine]

I fixed the roster:

View attachment 223203

Now all is right with the world. This feels like the definitive roster now. Now, how would you react if this was the final roster?

You have Bub on this list? Perfection.

Honestly, just swap Dante with Phoenix Wright and we're good here.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Honestly I have no ****ing clue. I just know Solaire is the big mascot of DS. I never played a DS game ever, but Solaire comes up pretty frequently.

The one on top of Cloud is Bub from Bubble Bobble, from one of the biggest Japanese companies Taito, who is responsible for the iconic Space Invaders.

Oh yeah Bubble Bobble duh!

I just remembered we even have a smilie for him

 

[Gameboi834]

I just remembered we even have a smilie for him

Proof that he's going to be in the Fighter Pass? Hmmmm?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yeah, Frogger's modern design is pretty great. It's not terrible like Pac-Man's Ghostly adventure design.

View attachment 223196

It's a great modernization of the iconic game character IMO. It gives me the Sonic Adventure official art vibes of good.

This reminds me of that Franklin (kids show) game on the GBA. Not that I mind that...

I fixed the roster:

View attachment 223203

Now all is right with the world. This feels like the definitive roster now. Now, how would you react if this was the final roster?

I think this is a pretty decent roster. My question is how Tom Nook will differ from Villager and Isabelle.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I fixed the roster:

View attachment 223203

Now all is right with the world. This feels like the definitive roster now. Now, how would you react if this was the final roster?

I think the previous one was better, tbh.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I fixed the roster:

View attachment 223203

Now all is right with the world. This feels like the definitive roster now. Now, how would you react if this was the final roster?

I like Frogger, Chorus Kids, Tom Nook, Dixie Kong, and Bubble Bobble though I've never played that game (I just like the design - this also goes for Chorus Kids as I haven't played RH but I am interested in it; I like Glee Club from what I've watched before).

Would be disappointed in no Steve or Banjo-Kazooie...or even just any Western character to at least break the fan rule.

edit: I also feel this roster would need Toad to truly complete the Nintendo All-Star lineup, alongside some other characters.

 

[cmbsfm]

He doesn't even have a cameo in Smash itself. I find that weird since he's such an important piece of gaming history. Not even a spirit? Konami said no? Did they not think of using him? Who knows. I don't consider it some case he was picked for DLC or is likely or anything, I'm just surprised.

I don't think we got spirits from franchises that weren't already represented via fighter or assist trophy. I do think Frogger should've been an assist trophy too but I guess he got glanced over. Wouldn't be surprised if we get a Contra Mii Gunner outfit down the road.

 

[Gameboi834]

I don't think we got spirits from franchises that weren't already represented via fighter or assist trophy. I do think Frogger should've been an assist trophy too but I guess he got glanced over. Wouldn't be surprised if we get a Contra Mii Gunner outfit down the road.

We got Shantae spirits (Shantae and Risky Boots) and Rabbids spirits (Rabbid Peach and Rabbid Mario).

A Contra Mii Gunner outfit would be awesome.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I think Bub might have become my third biggest want now.

I love the idea of being able to play as a dragon that can shoot bubbles that sends people flying to the top of the stage.

Plus, you could also apply the puzzle mechanics with a few special moves too, send color bubbles to any direction.

Bub would make for a very fun fighter honestly.

 

[cmbsfm]

We got Shantae spirits (Shantae and Risky Boots) and Rabbids spirits (Rabbid Peach and Rabbid Mario).

A Contra Mii Gunner outfit would be awesome.

Forgot about those.

But in terms of companies who have playable characters, there weren't any spirits for non represented franchises.(AT and Playable). Unless I'm wrong about that too lol.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't think we got spirits from franchises that weren't already represented via fighter or assist trophy. I do think Frogger should've been an assist trophy too but I guess he got glanced over. Wouldn't be surprised if we get a Contra Mii Gunner outfit down the road.

As pointed out, we definitely got Spirits from unused franchises.

Makes sense, as they're just Trophies and Custom Equipment combined. Minus the "description", which is the sole bad point about them. Though yeah, over 1000 descriptions in tons of languages sounds like a ton of work. The way they have it now is far more feasible and fast to do. That'd be a cool update around the end of Ultimate's life cycle, though.

Forgot about those.

But in terms of companies who have playable characters, there weren't any spirits for non represented franchises.(AT and Playable). Unless I'm wrong about that too lol.

Geno and Mallow spirits. Sooooo, yes, yes we did.

...Ignore this, actually. Duh, Mairo franchise. Though to be fair, Super Mario RPG has zero things beyond that, and it's its own ball game in a way.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I don't think we got spirits from franchises that weren't already represented via fighter or assist trophy.

This is false even with Nintendo characters like Donbe & Hikari, and Andy.

I think Bub might have become my third biggest want now.

I love the idea of being able to play as a dragon that can shoot bubbles that sends people flying to the top of the stage.

I'd be happy with just a remix of the main theme. It's super catchy, but not annoying.

 

[cmbsfm]

This is false even with Nintendo characters like Donbe & Hikari, and Andy.

I'd be happy with just a remix of the main theme. It's super catchy, but not annoying.

I was talking about third parties with playable characters.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I was talking about third parties with playable characters.

Keep in mind that Sakurai's staff had fun with selecting Spirits.

I doubt any of this has any real meaning. I really doubt there's a pattern to find here. Also, wasn't there some non-Sonic/Bayonetta Sega stuff? It was all just fun choices by a group of people. Sakurai went over the final list and removed some stuff, but that was it.

 

[cmbsfm]

Keep in mind that Sakurai's staff had fun with selecting Spirits.

I doubt any of this has any real meaning. I really doubt there's a pattern to find here. Also, wasn't there some non-Sonic/Bayonetta Sega stuff? It was all just fun choices by a group of people. Sakurai went over the final list and removed some stuff, but that was it.

I get that, but it was just something I noticed. Did Namco get any spirits beyond the franchises they put in as playable or as an assist? What about SEGA? Capcom? Konami?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I get that, but it was just something I noticed. Did Namco get any spirits beyond the franchises they put in as playable or as an assist? What about SEGA? Capcom? Konami?

You'll have to give me some time to look at the SmashWikia. Plus, didn't I ask you that.

Anyway, I don't think there's any actual consistency to consider here. If it's a 3rd party, it means it was either thought of(but they didn't agree) or it was nothing.

 

[cmbsfm]

You'll have to give me some time to look at the SmashWikia. Plus, didn't I ask you that.

Anyway, I don't think there's any actual consistency to consider here. If it's a 3rd party, it means it was either thought of(but they didn't agree) or it was nothing.

Nah you don't have to. I was asking out of curiosity, so I should be the one to look.

If there are some then I guess it's weird we didn't get Heihachi,Lloyd, or Frogger ones. If not then I guess they just stuck with what they were given.

 

[Wyoming]

Capcom technically got Rathalos, but that is due to his presence in the game of course.

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

I fixed the roster:

View attachment 223203

Now all is right with the world. This feels like the definitive roster now. Now, how would you react if this was the final roster?

Shiori Fujisaki from Tokimeki Memorial and Sakura Shinguji from Sakura Wars.
Both are super important to the Japanese gaming culture in general. Those two are like DQ and FF of dating sims.