New Wolf Technique: Wolf's Multi-Shining/Chain-shining(Debunked:Dont use)

[Captain Sa10]

Originally Posted by Captain Sa10
So as the title implies, I believe that've found a useful technique that will most likely further the reflector's usefulness. As we all know, Fox can chain his shines in a particular way, and melee falco pillared his. If anything, Wolf as well may have a multiple shine technique.

I was messing around in training mode when I figured I'd try and find something new with wolf. WHile executing several different shine sequences, I realized that a Short hop + A shine allows wolf to travel upwards in the air while activating his reflector. Upon landing, you have 0 lag, such as the 0 lag Fair. Well, I realized that if you DI'ed after them that you'll be able to instantly shine again upon landing while they are still being stunned by the first shine. It was intresting to see as it was capable of being used at multiple precentages, while working best at lower percents.

SO I was like," hmm, this could possibly be the next step in wolf gameplay.." and thus continued testing it. after testing on a lvl 9 D3, I realized that it was capable of Multi shining one after another, making something like a "zig zag". With that said, I began testing it on other CPU's noticing several distinct features:

1.Characters that are naturally "short" are not capable or extremely difficult to multi-shine(ex. metaknight can not be Multi-shined).
2.The more weight, the better, although some characters react differently. I've only tested it on Bowser and D3, and both showed similar knockback chracteristics.
3.The more damage, the more you may be able to chain or the less(really weird, I'll have to test further).

So far I discovered this about 30 minutes ago, and I figured you might be able to assist me in this testing of this possible technique. So far, in order to produce the multi shine you must do the following(the > will act as the DI forward in order to produce the second shine):

SH+Shine>Shine>SH+Shine>etc.

I'll try and get a vid up soon of this but if you have any questions feel free to ask.

Shortly afterwards, me and Kos tested this "Zig Zag" shine out even more, seeing if it trully was worthy. Well so far, it is but requires precise inputing which makes it all the more challenging and worth it. Here's some excerpts from our IM we had going while testing:

Wolfinator33 (10:15:26 PM): hey
Wolfinator33 (10:15:30 PM): this is koskinator
CaptainSa10 (10:15:47 PM): yo kos
Wolfinator33 (10:15:58 PM): so yeah, i tried it out in training
Wolfinator33 (10:16:00 PM): and it seems to work
Wolfinator33 (10:16:13 PM): im gonna go try it on a level nine dk
CaptainSa10 (10:16:52 PM): Yea I wasnt so sure about how effective it would be but Im guessing just from the way it is, and the stun on it
CaptainSa10 (10:17:01 PM): may make it worthy of a technique
Wolfinator33 (10:18:33 PM): i dont think it works perfectly
Wolfinator33 (10:18:39 PM): ive been trying it out on level 9 dk
Wolfinator33 (10:18:47 PM): and it can be power shielded on the second shine
CaptainSa10 (10:19:48 PM): hmm, it could just be the stun amount. Of course Im pretty sure the amount of stun
CaptainSa10 (10:20:07 PM): doesnt change among characters of course I may be wrong.
Wolfinator33 (10:20:27 PM): yeah
Wolfinator33 (10:20:34 PM): im not saying its useless
Wolfinator33 (10:20:43 PM): the timing on it might be fairly precise
Wolfinator33 (10:20:53 PM): so it could work on human players

We've also figured out that, its easier to continiously chain the shines, the closer you are to the opponent, making it the opposite the more distant you are. Here is a list from Kos of the characters he tested it on to see if it was possible on them or not(some were not possible due to the nature of the character. Ex. Metaknight being small, and Luigi having the slided effect when hit):

Peach-Easy
yoshi- a bit difficult
ganon- easy
ice climbers- extremely difficult
dedede- easy
wolf- difficult
lucario- difficult
ness -mid difficult
sonic -mid difficult
bowser - really easy
wario- mid difficult
toon link -mid difficult
rob - easy
olimar- not possible
captain falcon - easy
jiggs-not possible on
lucas-difficult on

And this is the list of characters that I tested on. P=POssible, ED=Extremely Difficult, I=Impossible. THe numbers behind that is the number of shines I chained:

mario-p- 2 to 4
DK-p-2 to 4
link-p-2 to 4
Samus-p-2 to 4
kirby-I
Fox-p-2 to 4
pika- I
MArth-P-2 to 4
G& W-ED- 2
Luigi-I
Diddy-ED-2
Zelda-P-2
Sheik-P-2 to 6
PIt-P-2 to 4
MK-I
Falco-P-2 to 6
PT Ivy-I
PT Squirtle-I
PT Charizard-P- 2 to 8
Ike-P-2 to 4
Snake-P-2 to 6

So far, we're pretty sure that this would be possible to incorporate in to wolf gameplay, and thus are asking our fellow wolf players to see what they think as well. It's definetly a step up in wolf's reflector gameplay, allowing him to be more offensive with it, and even more versatile. BTW, percentiles have no effect on the effectiveness of the technique as well as when it becomes a "stale" move after a while, makes it even better do to reduced knockback.

Recent Updates(5/21/08):Vid Added

Alrighty guys the vid is up. It's some bad quality but its better then nothing. Their is a good bit of talking in it, and me screwing around abit with the CPU sonic. Currently, were trying to find ways to prevent us form using this technique effectively. So far, it's just been shielding the shines. I'll try it out later with b-sticking to see if it's more relavent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa5BHevZ_0o

Update:Debunked

Not useful. After testing is countless times on opponents it's been proven utter useless unless placed in completely random moments.

 

[acv]

can you post a video.this sounds like a good technique and i cant understand very well unless i see a video.btw good find.this should be on the reflector guide.

 

[Captain Sa10]

IF anything, I'll try and get a vid up tomorrow of C-Shining, and such. Im not to good at video editing so it'll just be a plain explanation vid with me talking at the least.

 

[Liovidal007]

what if....

you set the c-stick to be special? wouldn't that help out a lot?

 

[Captain Sa10]

Im sure it would be a lot faster, but you also have that risk of jumping instead of producing the move. Although, I'll test it out to see the differences, which if Im correct, would just be in speed.

 

[acv]

looking forward to video.i hope this makes wolf even better.but there is always a posibility that a new kind of spamming wolf appears.oh noes.

 

[Captain Sa10]

looking forward to video.i hope this makes wolf even better.but there is always a posibility that a new kind of spamming wolf appears.oh noes.

luckly though, it's not possible to spam the shine unless your just doing it aimissly, which in that case, wouldn't be much to worry about xD. Although, we may just have a bunch of Shine-happy wolf's after this though.

 

[dguy6789]

An interesting technique.

 

[castorpollux]

I've tried using this "technique" a loong time before this post and i tried incorporating it into my game, but frankly I never really found a use for it. It only does, at most, 6% and the lag after the 2nd shine wont allow you to do much else. After the 1st short hop shine, I feel it's just better to just run up to him and grab them rather than do a 2nd shine. At least that way u'll rack up a lot more damage with a downthrow -> blaster

 

[Captain Sa10]

iF your doing it correctly, then you would have been able to rack up more then 6% of damage, since putting in the precise inputs, would mean that you could go atleast above 20%. IT it seems that B-sticking is faster, and makes the technique even faster then doing it the original way, making it harder to escape. OF anything, percent change among characters, because as I stated, every character reacts differently to the reflector. Take game and watch for an example. he's under ED, which means extremely difficult to chain-shine, and thus go probably be hit with only two shines, which would equal around 6%. Although, you can chain falco between 2-6 shines, resulting in way over 6% if inputed correctly. And you can probably chain more shines by B-sticking, making you have an even higher percentage overall.

 

[castorpollux]

wait are you saying you're able to short hop double shine a character across the stage without them being able to react? I'm pretty sure the opponent can shield in time before the 3rd SH shine

 

[Captain Sa10]

yes it is possible on some characters, very few, but some. In fact, it's possible to stop it on the second shine, but it is possible to take someone from the center of FD to the edge. Of course, this also comes down to how many Chained-shines you can produce as you might not be able and infact may not even be able to chain. In fact anytime you can sheild out of it for never said that it was unescapable, but if down fast enough, it makes it harder for the opponent to get out. Sheilding waveshines was possible but it was still difficult to break free from. This technique is not meant to be godly, and can be defended against.

 

[castorpollux]

ic. Not to be too critical or anything, but I just feel that attempting this technique just isn't worth it because if we try to do it and the person shields in time, we're basically trading 3% for 12% or more. We can't really compare this to waveshining caz the melee fox can just jump out of the shine before his opponent can shield grab him

 

[Captain Sa10]

true, I didnt mean to use it as a comparison just more towards to get my point across. Although, if we can further work out the kinks and stuff in the technique then it just may be one of wolf's many advantages over other characters. I can pretty much gurantee though, that you can pull off the Double Shine which can give you a free smash attack afterwards(d-smash,f-smash) or maybe a f-tilt. Either way if this is as effective as I believe it to be, then wolf will be even more of a force to be reckoned with. Thanks for the comments though since they are contributing to this.

 

[chronoize]

great find. although i find it hard getting use to without b-sticking it. of course this doesn't change the meta-game of wolf to much (yet) i see this as a good combo ender maybe. i dunno ill practice it a lil bit more tomorrow. but once again great find~!

 

[havocnetwork]

Yeah I'd like to see a video because I'm not exactly sure if what I am imagining in my mind matches with what you're describing.

 

[xxCANDYxx]

no mean to be negative o anything...but this is pretty old (if its what i think your tlking about). ive tested this out many times before in many tournys and almost got it to the point where you culd chain shine them across the stage, you just have to be able to conect the "zig zags" together

 

[Deleted member]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[acv]

vid.

10 fails./chars

 

[goodoldganon]

If I'm understanding you, this soudns awesome. Can't wait for the video.

 

[Captain Sa10]

no mean to be negative o anything...but this is pretty old (if its what i think your tlking about). ive tested this out many times before in many tournys and almost got it to the point where you culd chain shine them across the stage, you just have to be able to conect the "zig zags" together

Well it hasnt really been noted as a technique, as far as i've seen if it has been mentioned before. And with what you said about Chainshining them across the stage, you pretty much executed it perfectly with the precise inputs.

 

[Captain Sa10]

great find. although i find it hard getting use to without b-sticking it. of course this doesn't change the meta-game of wolf to much (yet) i see this as a good combo ender maybe. i dunno ill practice it a lil bit more tomorrow. but once again great find~!

Yea it's mostly just the change in gameplay for the reflector. This technique just makes the reflector seem even more potent in offensive situations and approaches.

Also, I might be able to upload a vid depending on weither or not Kos uploaded his, or is waiting for me to make mines. If anything, I wont make it to instructionational since that can get pretty boring at times xP.

 

[Turbo Ether]

Video plz.

 

[chronoize]

ill probably get a vid uploaded in a day or two (well... a vid of what i think it is)

 

[waks]

Can you upload vids? I really wanna see this in action. I think I have a grasp on the concept, but you know.. A vid always helps

 

[Captain Sa10]

Alrighty guys the vid is up. It's some bad quality but its better then nothing. Their is a good bit of talking in it, and me screwing around abit with the CPU sonic. Currently, were trying to find ways to prevent us form using this technique effectively. So far, it's just been shielding the shines. I'll try it out later with b-sticking to see if it's more relavent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa5BHevZ_0o

 

[chronoize]

grr you beat me to it. at least im not doing it wrong. I actually haven't tried this on a human player, but it seems like it can be DI out of easily. but dunno we'll have to test it. . For those who want to try this out at a tournament i wouldn't recommend it until u completely master it, or you'll find yourself illusion-ing off the stage.

 

[Captain Sa10]

grr you beat me to it. at least im not doing it wrong. I actually haven't tried this on a human player, but it seems like it can be DI out of easily. but dunno we'll have to test it. . For those who want to try this out at a tournament i wouldn't recommend it until u completely master it, or you'll find yourself illusion-ing off the stage.

lol, yea I didnt mean to take so long lol, and as I can see people were wanting to see it badly. Of course, Im glad my explanation helped some figure out exactly how to do it, which in a since is all you need. Luckly though, if your at close range with them, despite DI'ing away, the reflectors reach will still get them, allowing for atleast 2 shines. I've also recently tested on some human players, and it seems that yes it can be gotten out of easily while in the same time still difficult to get out of if you understand what im saying. I've also recently tested that the fact of executing a rising shine is a bit faster, and easier to chain into if you DI towards them in the rising shine. And what chronoize says is true: It's best to be able to use this completely otherwise you will wined up being off the stage because of the game mistaking it for the illusion.

 

[chronoize]

i think the way i do it may be different from yours, cause i use the momentum of the dash as DI. instead of holding forward during/after the reflector. so its like dash>SH>reflector x2> repeat

i think itll be more effective starting off in the air. such as:
U-tilt > jump (di forward)> reflector x2> SH (di forward)> reflector x2> fsmash or
U-tilt > jump (di forward)> reflector x2> SH (di forward)> reflector > dsmash

*U-tilt can be replaced by throws, up-smash, or anything that makes your opponent go up.

i just dont think it is a smart idea to go across the entire stage, due to the fact that your opponent can shield (maybe even DI) out of it.

 

[Captain Sa10]

What your saying is true, it is actually alot more relavent aerial wise then ground wise. And I have been capable of chaining multiple moves after the chainshine. If you wouldn't mind helping out a bit chrono, would you see if U tilt>DI forward(jump)>rising shine>landed shine>U-tilt works effectively. If so, then we have our selves a new technique like pillaring.(BTW I try doing this your way as well as an added way of doing this move. And thanks for your contribution).

 

[chronoize]

ill try it but i think the last landing shine pushes them to far away for the last u-tilt to work. oh and don't mention i just wanna see wolf get better.

 

[Captain Sa10]

ill try it but i think the last landing shine pushes them to far away for the last u-tilt to work. oh and don't mention i just wanna see wolf get better.

Yea, alot of us here wish for wolf to become better, xP. If anything, if the last shine puts it out of range, try just using the Rising Shine followed by the U-tilt and so on afterwards.

 

[chronoize]

Yea, alot of us here wish for wolf to become better, xP. If anything, if the last shine puts it out of range, try just using the Rising Shine followed by the U-tilt and so on afterwards.

well I'm practicing against ike the best i can do is
Utilt>sh(DI forward)>reflector>Utilt>sh(DI forward)>reflector>upsmash

I'm pretty sure a fsmash or a dsmash would work at the end. however this is against an ike at 20%. and again I'm doing this in training so i don't know if the opponent can shield, dodge, or DI out of this. i had a lot of problems doing this. sometimes i wouldn't short hop in time cause ike was only in the air for a short amount of time, and i mistakenly did illusion ALOT.

 

[cloud520]

very nice, im gonna have to work on that

 

[Sk3pTiK]

its a cool technique but it seems like it be more trouble to learn than its worth

 

[Captain Sa10]

well I'm practicing against ike the best i can do is
Utilt>sh(DI forward)>reflector>Utilt>sh(DI forward)>reflector>upsmash

I'm pretty sure a fsmash or a dsmash would work at the end. however this is against an ike at 20%. and again I'm doing this in training so i don't know if the opponent can shield, dodge, or DI out of this. i had a lot of problems doing this. sometimes i wouldn't short hop in time cause ike was only in the air for a short amount of time, and i mistakenly did illusion ALOT.

IN any case then, for now we'll stick with the aerial shine continuation to see where that leads us. So far, I've been able to combo a multitude of things after a chain-shine, resulting in juggles and kills, as well as an off the stage gimp that I just recently tried out that allows for a chainshine>bair.

And to people that are new to this, the technique is actually fairly simple to do, its just keeping your consistancy and timing that allows you to do more.

 

[Turbo Ether]

SH Shine - Utilt doesn't combo. The only things that it seems to combo into 100% of the time is another Shine and AAA.

I wish we had frame information for Wolf.

 

[FinalLegend]

i found this the first time i played wolf --jump shine get on the ground and shine again then do right tikle this is my combo

 

[Yoshara]

The funny thing is that I have been using this for a while against my friend as a way of approching him, I just never thought of chaining it.

 

[ShadowDigo]

Great discovery! Keep up the good job.