New to Sheik, question on which options I have for if the enemy is able to grab the ledge?

Pbepisman

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 20, 2017
Messages
2
#1
What are my options for defending a ledge once the enemy grabs it? I know Dsmash sometimes hits, sometimes not. Same for dtilt.

Not sure if those are the best options or not.
 

Pauer

The Pauerful
Moderator
Premium
Joined
Dec 25, 2013
Messages
488
Location
Linz, Austria
#2
What are my options for defending a ledge once the enemy grabs it? I know Dsmash sometimes hits, sometimes not. Same for dtilt.

Not sure if those are the best options or not.
If an enemy has already grabbed a ledge, there is not a lot you can do safely near the ledge because of their invincibility. Once you play with someone who can ledgedash well, you'll learn that you should keep a good distance from the ledge and instead threaten their getup options. It's very easy and effective to stand outside of their initial range and threaten f-tilt and dash grab.
You can short hop needle the ledge but even that is not safe, and it's only effective if you catch their jump. You want to hit them with needles as they are jumping to the ledge but not really when they're already hanging there.

Remember that if you don't put yourself in a lot of danger by being close to the ledge, you are in a very dominant position because you are outside of the enemy's immediate threats but you can punish a lot of their actions on reaction. I'm sure there has been a time where you played someone, let's say a Marth who made you feel cornered by the ledge just by standing there. You can do the same thing.
The next time you play, I suggest you to try to resist the urge to go near the ledge if the enemy is already there and stay a good distance from it, threaten with moves that are hard to punish like f-tilt or spaced aerials and try to resist the urge to hard commit with something like dash attack or d-smash.

D-smash is definitely not a good option near the ledge in general but it can work okay against newer players or as a hard read. In order to hit them at the ledge, you need to be standing right at the edge because d-smash has a small hitbox right below sheik. Again, if you do this regularly, better players will bait it out and punish you hard for it.
 

notsuchabadguy

Smash Cadet
Writing Team
Joined
Jan 26, 2016
Messages
74
#4
If you're in a triplat, I suggest standing on the platform above the ledge. Drop-down fair or nair covers most ledgedash options, and even if you don't hit them as they're getting back on stage you're still in a pretty dominant position. It usually works for me, but I'd be curious about what other Sheik mains think about this.
 

darkatma

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 10, 2005
Messages
5,747
Location
St Louis, Missouri/Fremont, CA
#6
Depends on the character you're facing. If they have a good ledgedash (fox), then you should stay center and threaten with spaced tilts and aerials. If they dont have a ledgedash (most marths) just stay outside their ledgehop aerial range. If they have a ledgedash that isn't very invincible (sheik), you can shield and grab their ledgedash option.

If you want to specifically pressure them on the ledge, shorthop or fullhop falling needle, or drop through platform needle. On pokemon stadium specifically you can shorthop needle and then run off platform needle to hit the ledge twice with needles. Dsmash and dtilt are not good because they will not hit the ledge. Dsmash only hits under the stage on the first active frame and only on sheik's head, so it's not practical and would be a big reactable commitment. Dtilt hits surprisingly high but doesn't cover the ledge unless they aren't sweetspotted.

Run off doublejump back with a bair as someone else above mentioned is really good for non invincible ledgestalls. You can also just turn around and grab the ledge from them if you time a good wavedash as they are refreshing invincibility.
 
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