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Q&A New to Sheik? Look here to learn how to get started/Need help with Sheik? Ask your questions here.

RedX1000

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 15, 2016
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HeisenFox
Hello fellow Sheik mains. I'm trying to pick up sheik and was wondering how to get her movement down because every time I play her it feels clunky or just not smooth like other Sheiks I watch (Void, Mr.R ect). Also I would like to know practical ways to move with her.
 
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Daymaster

Smash Ace
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SuperMan9878
Hello fellow Sheik mains. I'm trying to pick up sheik and was wondering how to get her movement down because every time I play her it feels clunky or just not smooth like other Sheiks I watch (Void, Mr.R etc). Also I would like to know practical ways to move with her.
For starters, implement B-revese Needles into your game. This allows you to turn around at any point at time very easily, and becomes extremely useful with Needle Fidgeting and Instant Needle Canceling. Make sure that you are using Short Hop Fasfalls whenever you are jumping for movement and to give the treat of a Fair (which you should be doing in Neutral a lot), and using Run to Shield is a pretty good way to remain stationary while stopping a Dash.
 

Sipikahew (~)

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
13
I'm having a little trouble with Marth.
My friend isn't even actually that good, he'll just F-Smash me out of my combos.
Super annoying.
 

Daymaster

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I'm having a little trouble with Marth.
My friend isn't even actually that good, he'll just F-Smash me out of my combos.
Super annoying.
If he is able to get out a move like F-smash during combos, you probobly are not using true combos or even moves that almost combo, especially since F-smash is activated from the ground. Try keeping him airborne more often and executing any combo as fast as possible. If that still doesn't work, at least you could predict the F-smash, block it and go in for a Boost Grab.
 

Sipikahew (~)

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
13
He'll do it out of a F-tilt string or something, or after a Fair string.
And when I block it, he had enough time to shield or spot dodge my retaliation, but at that point it's more of a 50/50.
And Shield Breaker.
Damn that move.

Thanks for the help.
 
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Daymaster

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He'll do it out of a F-tilt string or something, or after a Fair string.
And when I block it, he had enough time to shield or spot dodge my retaliation, but at that point it's more of a 50/50.
And Shield Breaker.
Damn that move.

Thanks for the help.
Hold on, I'll run the calculations for the shield stun and see of you can punish on block.
EDIT: Ok, so non-tipper F-smash does 8 frames of Shield Stun, and Tipper does 10. It takes 7 frames to drop your shield, and 7 frames for a Dash Grab to come out. F-smash has 41 frames of end lag, which is more than 8 or 10+7+7. You should be able to punish before he can get an option out. Thanks MSExcel! As for Shield Breaker, it doesn't break a full shield anymore without a full charge, so if you are not wasting your shield before he attacks you should be fine.
 
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Rango the Mercenary

The Mercenary
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So when is it safe to drop shield and counter with jabs when fighting Sheik? Fair usually needs to FTilt, jab, and grab mixups and I want to know when it's okay to retaliate if I shielded Fair.
 

Daymaster

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So when is it safe to drop shield and counter with jabs when fighting Sheik? Fair usually needs to FTilt, jab, and grab mixups and I want to know when it's okay to retaliate if I shielded Fair.
At punishable range, Fair does 4 frames of Shield Stun. Assuming she didn't autocancle it, which she probably didn't considering that it landed at all, it has 10 frames of landing lag. Ike's shield grab comes out frame 7, meaning Ike is at worst -1 frames on block for Fair, better if she doesn't land the frame after Fair. Since Sheik's fastest move from the that she could reasonably land (jab requires her to be insanely close to Ike and spacing that bad is rare) is frame 5, a grab is always garuenteed. However, since Ike's jab is frame 5, Sheik would have had to hit the Fair on shield 2 frames before she hit the ground for you to be able to get Jab. It's safest to go for grab. Also if the Sheik autocanceled the Fair you are getting either F-tilted or Grabed.
 

Sonicninja115

Experiment. Innovate. Improve.
Joined
Jul 8, 2015
Messages
2,429
Could someone give me some Shiek/M2 Mu trivia for my guide? I am putting together a MU section. I don't need mu, just important snippets.

For example, with Diddy kong I put down:

Diddy doesn't have to worry about Banana being used against him as much, because Mewtwo's Item game is horrible.
SH Fair goes over Dtilt and outspaces it.
Mewtwo is susceptible to Dtilt combos.

Basically, it could be things from Shieks POV or Mewtwo's. Either way, it is good to know strenghts and weaknesses in a MU. This is mainly meant as a refresher before a match and not an in-depth analysis. Any help would be much appreciated!
 

SNchilly

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
4
Anyone tried using tap jump for sheik? I'm not sure if it would be useful to put in the time to learn it or not
 

Sipikahew (~)

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
13
Anyone tried using tap jump for sheik? I'm not sure if it would be useful to put in the time to learn it or not
I have. It doesn't do too much. She doesn't have very good OoS that take advantage of it, and whenever I up smashed, I'd jump and up air.
More personal, but I didn't find it useful.
 

gamecubeguy214

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 9, 2015
Messages
78
How is Sheik as good as they say she is? She can't kill, her hitboxes feel extremely small, her moves are so quick that you have to be perfect in order to land them, probably the worst dair I've ever seen, and very light. The only thing I can tell she's capable of is ftilt and fair chains. How is Sheik not considered low tier trash? She's also very boring and instantly puts me out of the mood to play Smash after game 1 with Sheik. I'm trying to pick up Sheik as a counterpick to Cloud, but she's extremely difficult to use and makes Smash boring after 5 minutes. I made a tag "SEXYNINJA" so that my For Glory win rate doesn't go way down, and I played 20 matches using that tag and only have 1 victory.
 

Simikins

Nerfed
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How is Sheik as good as they say she is? She can't kill, her hitboxes feel extremely small, her moves are so quick that you have to be perfect in order to land them, probably the worst dair I've ever seen, and very light. The only thing I can tell she's capable of is ftilt and fair chains. How is Sheik not considered low tier trash? She's also very boring and instantly puts me out of the mood to play Smash after game 1 with Sheik. I'm trying to pick up Sheik as a counterpick to Cloud, but she's extremely difficult to use and makes Smash boring after 5 minutes. I made a tag "SEXYNINJA" so that my For Glory win rate doesn't go way down, and I played 20 matches using that tag and only have 1 victory.
If that's how you feel after playing her, she probably isn't a character for you.
And yes you are right, you have to be very precise with sheik to do well. What makes her good? Everything she has is fast, and she has very good combos so can get a lot of damage off a single hit.
Crappy dair? Yeah. It has it's uses but it's not a move to use often.
Very light? Yeah she dies early.
How is she not considered low tier trash? Search up CLG Void on youtube.
You find her boring? Don't play her.
 

JJpalmer

Smash Journeyman
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Sep 18, 2014
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What are general things an Ike should do in this mu and look out for our mu threads a bit outdated so i figured id come ask you guys.
 

Sipikahew (~)

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
13
As an Ike/Shiek/Falck main, Ike definetly struggles with Needles, even after the nerfs. He's tall and heavy = combo food.
His main edgeguarding tool, Eruption, is completely negated by Vanish.
Despite his long recovery, Shiek's edgeguarding kit completely neutralizes it.

So basically, hopping over Needles and out spacing Fair with Bair is like, the only thing you can do.
 

luke_atyeo

Smash Hero
Joined
May 10, 2008
Messages
7,215
hey dudes, I'm trying to collect a bunch of quick easy info graphics on essential character knowledge to make a quick reference guide for commentators (we all hate it when a commentator says something that is wrong)
This shulk thing here is an example of the kinda stuff I am looking for


I'm going around to all the character boards and it'll be a little messy for me to try and check them all, so if you have any cool things like that, or just some useful info that I could turn into a similar picture, please send me a message. Cheers lads.
 

JJpalmer

Smash Journeyman
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As an Ike/Shiek/Falck main, Ike definetly struggles with Needles, even after the nerfs. He's tall and heavy = combo food.
His main edgeguarding tool, Eruption, is completely negated by Vanish.
Despite his long recovery, Shiek's edgeguarding kit completely neutralizes it.

So basically, hopping over Needles and out spacing Fair with Bair is like, the only thing you can do.
i figured i used to play shiek but couldnt figure out the mu
 

Blood Saved Me

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 4, 2016
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2
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Blood Saved Me
Ok so I have a question about 1.1.6 sheik; what are your thoughts on the diddy, cloud, and ryu match up after this patch. I enjoy playing sheik (my main is mewtwo) so I wanted to pick her up as a secondary. Also I don't want to hear mew2 has no bad mu, or solo main sheik then (I like playing a lot of characters in this game).
 
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MegaFatcat100

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 21, 2015
Messages
37
I have a pretty decent fledgeling Sheik and am decent with the B&B combos, but I want to optimize and use her in tounrament, and I noticed most of her optimal combos utilize perfect pivots a lot. Problem is, I'm really bad at doing them. I can pp one direction fairly consistently, but not so much in the left direction for some reason. Combining them with tilts means I almost always mess up, and I've been trying them for a while. So is this a character choice at this point a concern? Besides "just keep trying" is there an easier way to learn pp f tilt shinenigans? Furthermore, I'm having trouble with needle fidgeting. I know the tech is very simple in terms of inputs, but the timing I can almost never get. So... any tips?
 

hoppyKnitz

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 12, 2016
Messages
26
Ive been told that sheik is a particularly hard character to use, but I've only been using him for a short time and ive been beating my bro (who is definitely better than me) with sheik pretty consistently. Of course no character is ever easy to use, but is Sheik really specifically hard to use, and what makes it so?
 

Ijigen

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Messages
28
Hi, I need some general 'playing against Sheik' advice...

1. How should you DI the following moves? Right now I feel like a pincushion and it's definitely because of MU inexperience. Let me know if there is no correct DI (i.e. you should mix it up) instead.
-Fthrow (low%)
-Fthrow (kill%, i.e. Sheik is looking to follow up with uair/etc.)
-Dthrow
-Fairplane (repeated rising SHFF fairs)
-Uair (what is the best survival DI?)
-UpB (hate to get caught by this but if I do it always seems to send me at a weird angle)
-Nair (if I'm expecting BF after)
2. I have read conflicting advice on this subforum about the safeness of fair on shield. I know with air-to-ground things it can be finicky (powershield? + frames to land + autocancel windows), but in general if I'm close enough to get out a standard frame 6-7 grab OoS, can it be done or will I eat a jab/ftilt?
3. Very specific question, but what about Mario's Up B OoS? Could it beat Fair? Ftilt? By 'beat' I mean 'punish before Sheik could shield'. I would test this myself but I don't have someone else around to hit buttons.
4. When I'm at kill/50-50 percents, how should I play the anti-grab game? I usually try to stay airborne but then eat some needles because of it. Is there a better way to avoid the kill?

I was also going to ask about neutral but that gets pretty character-specific and there are MU threads for that.
 

Simikins

Nerfed
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366
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New Zealand
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Hi, I need some general 'playing against Sheik' advice...

1. How should you DI the following moves? Right now I feel like a pincushion and it's definitely because of MU inexperience. Let me know if there is no correct DI (i.e. you should mix it up) instead.
-Fthrow (low%)
-Fthrow (kill%, i.e. Sheik is looking to follow up with uair/etc.)
-Dthrow
-Fairplane (repeated rising SHFF fairs)
-Uair (what is the best survival DI?)
-UpB (hate to get caught by this but if I do it always seems to send me at a weird angle)
-Nair (if I'm expecting BF after)
2. I have read conflicting advice on this subforum about the safeness of fair on shield. I know with air-to-ground things it can be finicky (powershield? + frames to land + autocancel windows), but in general if I'm close enough to get out a standard frame 6-7 grab OoS, can it be done or will I eat a jab/ftilt?
3. Very specific question, but what about Mario's Up B OoS? Could it beat Fair? Ftilt? By 'beat' I mean 'punish before Sheik could shield'. I would test this myself but I don't have someone else around to hit buttons.
4. When I'm at kill/50-50 percents, how should I play the anti-grab game? I usually try to stay airborne but then eat some needles because of it. Is there a better way to avoid the kill?

I was also going to ask about neutral but that gets pretty character-specific and there are MU threads for that.
How to DI stuff
1. Fthrow at low %
Up and towards to avoid BF, up and away/down and away to avoid upair/nair/fair. Mix up between those two.
2. Fthrow at Kill %
To avoid upair DI away/down and away. With this DI you'll be in a 50/50 with Bouncing Fish. You can break sheik's BF 50/50s by airdodging in reaction to the BF sound. Takes practice but you'll never get hit by a sheik BF 50/50 again :D Sheik can also do dthrow if they expect DI away and it's another nice BF 50/50 because fthrow DI away is still pretty hard to 50/50 with at high %s. So mostly di away but sometimes mix it up with DI in or something.
3. Fairplane
Depends on character. As a fast faller DI away and you'll eat 1 less fair than normal if it's off a low % throw. As a floaty di up and away. DI up can also be good at low/mid %s as sheik will eventually have to fullhop and that makes fair stuff less guaranteed. We'll normally try and falling fair, nair or upair after a fullhop fair so watch out for those.
4. Upair
Best survival DI is away (maybe away and slighty down, i'm not 100% sure) from the direction sheik is facing. Pretty easy to tell because her body is on an angle. / means facing right \ means facing left.
Now, that is the way you'll have to DI against MOST sheik players. Sheik can actually mix up your DI with upair, by hitting with the back hit and sending you the opposite way. Void does this a lot which is why you see top players somehow DIing it dreadfully wrong. I actually don't know how to tell what way to DI when on the receiving end of the DI mixup, all I know is how to execute it. You'll normally just need to DI away from the direction sheik is facing against most sheiks though. It's not too widely known.
If they do know how to do it, you'll be able to tell if you're DIing how I've said then go straight up. Most sheiks will only go for the DI mixup at kill %s. Then it becomes a reading-their-mixup game. If they get it once at high % they'll probably go for it again when you're at high % on your next stock, so DI the opposite way to normal. When they see you DIing right they'll start mixing up, so just hope you guess correctly if they'll do it or not.
I'm sorry I can't tell you how to just tell (there definitely is a way because some players consistently DI it right, I just don't know it).
5. UpB
Depends where you are on the stage. If you're near the sides then di in. If you're near the top then di out. Out/in depending on which side of sheik you were hit by. Hit by the front? Out from where they're facing. Hit by the back? other direction.
6. Nair
If you're not hit offstage DI down and tech. Can be risky sometimes because sheik nair is great for untechable setups with the spin. Otherwise mix up between away and up. Be careful with up though, as if you're still not offstage then it can true combo into tipper upsmash and you'll die early.

Sheik's fair on shield doesn't have frame advantage (or it might be +1 I actually don't know because it doesn't really matter). What matters is the sheiks spacing. If they hit with a close fair (which does 4% unstale) then a normal speed grab oos or footstool oos is good. If they space well and hit with the tip of fair (does 5% so more shield stun) then they'll be too far for you to do anything, so just jump or roll away.
If you expect fair > jab jab, it will trade or beat grab if you don't react fast enough, so you can play it safe and shield the jab 1-2. Sheik's jab 1 and 2 are far from safe on shield, so grab or roll or jump or something.

Mario upb oos
for ftilt you'd probably have to do an impact option select (go to onesmash.net they have great tech vids) or just shield grab. Only shield grab or upb if it's close ftilt though. Spaced ftilt will make you look silly. Same with fair. I'm not 100% sure about upb oos but I'd say only do it if they're close not spaced.

Sheik's grabs no longer setup into nice 50/50s, so just shield a lot. Of course always mix up, but shield most of the time because all sheik can do with a grab is put you in a bad position and try and punish landing or get you with a BF 50/50 if you don't know how to deal with them. Normally just jump out of sheik's grabs/ftilts at 50/50 %, unless you're on T&C, then airdodge should be used a little more than normal.

Hope this helps.
 

Ijigen

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Messages
28
Thank you, Simikins! I'll have to memorize all that DI stuff so I stop being combo food. I think my biggest problem was that I wasn't trying to react to BF, just trying to predict it which led to much stupid airdodging and pressure. I'll try to go off the audio cue next time, and if I can get that then it should improve my survivability greatly. Also, I was definitely trying to airdodge 50/50s too much before, which I noted after playing. Sheik can very comfortably either frame trap air dodge or punish it harder than jump, which I learned the hard way. I'll post back with results if I manage to make any progress :)
 

Wasserwipf

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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I have a pretty decent fledgeling Sheik and am decent with the B&B combos, but I want to optimize and use her in tounrament, and I noticed most of her optimal combos utilize perfect pivots a lot. Problem is, I'm really bad at doing them. I can pp one direction fairly consistently, but not so much in the left direction for some reason. Combining them with tilts means I almost always mess up, and I've been trying them for a while. So is this a character choice at this point a concern? Besides "just keep trying" is there an easier way to learn pp f tilt shinenigans? Furthermore, I'm having trouble with needle fidgeting. I know the tech is very simple in terms of inputs, but the timing I can almost never get. So... any tips?
Uhm honestly i'm pretty sure you dont need PP's, if there is optimized stuff but your fundamentals and punish game is what really matters as sheik. As in, improve your reads, adapt playstyles, work on spacing, stuff like that should keep you busy and improving without using PPs. They arent really necessary out of top-level play so yea.
For Neelde fidgeting theres an actual easy trick that usually works, by simply using one of the soulder buttons as Special, so you can simply use B to start charging, then shoulder 1 (shield) and shoulder 2 (special) right after each other, this should work right away pretty consistently.

Ive been told that sheik is a particularly hard character to use, but I've only been using him for a short time and ive been beating my bro (who is definitely better than me) with sheik pretty consistently. Of course no character is ever easy to use, but is Sheik really specifically hard to use, and what makes it so?
*sigh* Sheik is officially a girl, there no him to her. That aside, have you ever played against a good player? If they know what they do they usually eat average sheiks for breakfast... She's light so she dies early, and also really fast which makes it kinda hard to input everything with enough precision to be effective.... not to mentions the tons of AT she has and how edgeguard heavely she usually is... that should be kinda explanation enough i hope...
 

Subtilizer

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Hey guys any tips on what the benifits are of using tilts on c stick instead of smash? I've been hearing for a while that its pretty much a must to have c stick on attack for sheiks but never made the change yet
 

WondrousMoose

Mind the antlers
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Hey guys any tips on what the benifits are of using tilts on c stick instead of smash? I've been hearing for a while that its pretty much a must to have c stick on attack for sheiks but never made the change yet
To my knowledge, the most popular reasoning behind that is that using smash stick for aerials affects your momentum, while tilt stick doesn't. For Sheik specifically, she doesn't use her smashes anywhere near as often as she uses her tilts, so it's almost a waste.
 

Subtilizer

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To my knowledge, the most popular reasoning behind that is that using smash stick for aerials affects your momentum, while tilt stick doesn't. For Sheik specifically, she doesn't use her smashes anywhere near as often as she uses her tilts, so it's almost a waste.
Oh never knew smash stick affected arieal movement, is it a noticeable difference when using vs not using?
 

Megamang

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
1,791
Depends on how fast your movements are.

Edit: as in your stick movements. If you keep the cstick over for a while, it impedes your movement longer. If you moved it for one frame then back the next, almost no loss occurs.

Regardless, tilt stick also opens up cstick nairs which alone is worth it imo.
 
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Kasper_

Smash Rookie
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Feb 9, 2016
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Florida
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Hey i had a question on sheik's vanish, i see alot of top shieks when recovering on to stage they vanish and auto snap to ledge. I find myself sometimes vanishing but i land on stage instead of the ledge.
My question is, is there like a angle that i need to input to always get sheik to snap to ledge on vanish?
 

Wasserwipf

Smash Apprentice
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Aug 22, 2012
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191
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Hey i had a question on sheik's vanish, i see alot of top shieks when recovering on to stage they vanish and auto snap to ledge. I find myself sometimes vanishing but i land on stage instead of the ledge.
My question is, is there like a angle that i need to input to always get sheik to snap to ledge on vanish?
Uhm, well it should be correct angle, if you go to high like all the time you should angle further down. Thing is, if you hold down, you'll not snap the ledge.
Well try to hold the direction of the ledge, if that doesnt work see if your angle is correct. If thats fine, we might need some footage or explanation what you are doing.
 

Guimartgon

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
133
Location
CO
Does anyone have any vods of the sheik-lucario MU? I don't really know much about it and can't find good resources. If anyone can link me to some video/s where the sheik plays the matchup correctly that'd be much appreciated.
 

scumstash

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 11, 2015
Messages
3
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Hey i had a question on sheik's vanish, i see alot of top shieks when recovering on to stage they vanish and auto snap to ledge. I find myself sometimes vanishing but i land on stage instead of the ledge.
My question is, is there like a angle that i need to input to always get sheik to snap to ledge on vanish?
hey, you have to input the general direction of the ledge and then let go of the control stick BEFORE the initial vanish animation ends. it's a timing thing that takes a bit of practice but is pretty easy once you get it down. and very important. if you hold the control stick all the way through the animation, then she will go exactly where you told her to.
 

WondrousMoose

Mind the antlers
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hey, you have to input the general direction of the ledge and then let go of the control stick BEFORE the initial vanish animation ends. it's a timing thing that takes a bit of practice but is pretty easy once you get it down. and very important. if you hold the control stick all the way through the animation, then she will go exactly where you told her to.
Well no, if you don't have a direction at the moment she vanishes, she'll just go straight up. Releasing while she's invisible works.
 

Wasserwipf

Smash Apprentice
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How did Komorikiri escape Sheik's up air here?
https://youtu.be/nIJGtZl7VRw?t=9m26s
You'd usually do that with so called SDI, which is done by mashing the stick in the direction you want to go, or hold it there and kinda tilt it from there left and right fast (note that this is necessary against bayonetta eg, and there should be alot of guide on youtube).
EG; SDI UP and RIGHT::GCUR: :GCN::GCUR::GCN::GCUR::GCN::GCUR:
or: :GCUR::GCU::GCUR::GCR::GCUR::GCU::GCUR::GCR::GCUR:

In this case tho it doesnt look like komo did much SDI but rather a combination of MR. R going left, Komo going right and the move hitting with a weird part of the hitbox so it doesnt autoconnect. Pretty sure you can't usually get out of her uair.
 

Daymaster

Smash Ace
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So I am thinking I may be settling on Shiek as a main. I like her speed, final smash is decent (I know items aren't used in competitive play, but playing with friends items will be on most of the time), some fun specials, I think I see the potential here.

And importantly... I think she will force me to learn the game better than I did the last one. The level I have smashed out is as basic as one can get... try and do damage try and dodge damage, and try and smash attack afterword.

Side B... what do you all think of it? I am trying to use that when my foe is off edge... having trouble timing and antisipating but that may come with practice. On stage... just seems to punishable unless I am in a team batlte with a partner in front of me.
Playing Sheik will force you to learn Sheik things. She's a complex character, more so than most of the rest of the cast. If you are just getting into competitive Smash I'd actually recomend an easier character like Cloud so you could focus more on Smash stuff rather than Sheik stuff.

As for Burst Grenade, it's only real on-stage purpose is to hit the opponent when your back is against the ledge. The only good option for the opponent to beat it is throwing a projectile, which probably isn't the first thing that will come to their mind at close range. It covers all other options, as even if they hit you the grenade will still hit them. Off-stage Sheik has much better options than Burst Grenade, but it can be a decent mixup or method of catching opponents after using their Double Jumps.
 

NamenRoodles

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Messages
1
Location
LaGrangeville/Poughkeepsie
Hello, I have three problems with sheik at the moment.

1. I do most of my studying by watching pro players, and I notice a lot of times instead of fair stringing they will switch to nair or bair. What indicators are there for switching from fairing my opponent to reverse bair or nair? For example is there some sort of percent or distance where it is more optimal to use bair or nair?

2. I notice a lot of time when I am stringing on my opponent they will end my string by trading with me, and because of sheiks low percent attacks, it essentially makes the trade even. How do I avoid this?

3. Lastly, I notice high level players get forward throw -> jump -> bouncing fish at higher percents for the kill, and when I do it I feel like my opponent always air dodges. I cannot find anything on the percents where this combo is viable, and also what the timing on the jump and bouncing fish should be.

Thank you all for your help!
 

Simikins

Nerfed
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Messages
366
Location
New Zealand
3DS FC
0447-8060-8710
Hello, I have three problems with sheik at the moment.

1. I do most of my studying by watching pro players, and I notice a lot of times instead of fair stringing they will switch to nair or bair. What indicators are there for switching from fairing my opponent to reverse bair or nair? For example is there some sort of percent or distance where it is more optimal to use bair or nair?

2. I notice a lot of time when I am stringing on my opponent they will end my string by trading with me, and because of sheiks low percent attacks, it essentially makes the trade even. How do I avoid this?

3. Lastly, I notice high level players get forward throw -> jump -> bouncing fish at higher percents for the kill, and when I do it I feel like my opponent always air dodges. I cannot find anything on the percents where this combo is viable, and also what the timing on the jump and bouncing fish should be.

Thank you all for your help!
1. The main reason players will switch to using bair or nair over fair is that they deal more damage, and so would rather them as combo finishers than fair. And really, it depends on preference, and the situation. Often you'll see top player do falling fair > rar bair at mid %s. In this situation, bouncing fish would also work, and deal MORE damage, but they want to keep bouncing fish fresh for killing. After an ftilt at around mid %s, nair or bair are the best bnb followups, as they deal good damage and there aren't extended combos that can be easily done. There's no set distance or % where it's optimal to do these instead, but if you do want to do nair or bair from a throw or an ftilt or a falling fair, then around 50% is where I would start.

2. That's something that happens a lot, and like you've said, it's a big problem for sheik as our moves do so little damage and we lose trades. How to avoid this? The simple way is to not over extend. Only going for BF after fthrow rather than fairs into regrab, sticking to the basic guaranteed stuff. Only doing one or two ftilts before a different move, rather than four or five.
The harder way (and I'd recommend working on this even if you are going to just not over extend) is to practice your combos lots, and make sure that combos you do are completely true. They can't trade with you if they're still in hitstun.
The thing with this though, is it all depends on what character you're playing against. With characters that have fast escape options (the 3 frame nairs of the mario brothers, ness, etc. or the 1 frame intangibility of marth and ryu upb's, or yoshis heavy armour double jump) you want to always make sure you're not over extending. Keep your combos small, only a few hits. But, if you're playing against characters with slow escape options (captain falcon, rob and link are examples of characters that get comboed forever because of poor escape options) then you can do longer extended combos.
Also, if you are going to do the long combos, make sure you're spaced at the max range of your fairs of ftilts. Sheiks fair outranges most other fairs or nairs, so if you're spaced perfect you'll beat them.

3. The thing with fthrow bouncing fish, is it isn't a combo at high %s. To kill with it, you need to read what your opponent will do. They're always airdodging? Delay a bit, and hit them after their airdodge finishes. They're trying to jump out? BF immediately. A video has been made by @_Blank_ explaining it a bit, and how to avoid it, so that might be helpful.

Hope this helps :)
 

Fruitalicious

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 4, 2016
Messages
23
NNID
Fruitalicious
fair to bouncing fish never works, like ever

i just bounce under them
what do
 
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