New Tech?

[Masondeanm]

I found this by accident. I have no idea if it's new or not, but I've never seen it before. I have not tested it extensively, but I would guess that it works on every edge.

How to execute it:
1. Position yourself such that fsmashing towards an edge will cause you to teeter.
2. Fsmash towards said edge.
3. While in the fsmash animation, press up on the control stick and either L, R, or Z. Do not let go of these until Jigglypuff begins to fall. Once she's falling you can let go of whatever button you pressed, but keep the control stick upwards.
4. Once Jigglypuff is falling, press B.

What's Happening:
Turns out when you buffer a shied during Jigglypuff's fsmash, and she goes up against an edge, instead of stopping and shielding, she just falls off. Because you buffer up on the control stick during the fsmash, it doesn't register as a jump, and when you press B, that executes an Up-B (sing). As you probably know, If you sing you can grab the edge regardless of the direction you were facing, so Jigglypuff grabs the edge.

Not sure how useful this is, or if there's any other applications of falling off an edge right after an fsmash (it works on platforms too).

Provided this is actually new, I honestly don't know what to name it, but that can be figured out later.

 

[Archelon]

This is pretty cool... maybe it's a way to fsmash, then edgehog to cover multiple options/ timings? Usually Puff is better off just jumping and doing aerials though... What do you think?

 

[Massive]

This is not new, it's just a sing ledgegrab application.

Fsmash isn't usually used here because aerials usually work better in most instances.

 

[JJnew]

Hello, you just gave me an idea of way to make a move Im trying to master alot easier, I hope it works...

What I usually practice is the run out of the stage and upb without jumping to grab the ledge (just like yoshi does it with his second jump). I can make it around 30% of the time, but its way to risky, because if I up to soon, Ill stop my momentum and sing in the stage (sitting duck = free punishes), if I upb to late Ill just fall down the stage singing to my death (sounds very poetic but its not...) and even if I time it correctly, I still may miss my upb input and Ill end up jumping with the upb which makes the purpoes of doing this the fastest posible now useless (and if the oponent grabs the edge before I do, well.. you can guess what happens). I have only tried use this once in a tournament (and amazingly I was succesfull) snatching the ledge from a recovering shiek that was aiming his upb to the ledge.

What im going to try to do now is that Im going to run to the ledge, and before I drop from it Ill hit shield which will let me drift the last pixels of the ledge and go into the falling animation (it will both help me avoid either overshoting the ledge or singing before I drop frop it). and when I see myself droping I can focus mainly on time correctly the upb without jumping... still I dont know if this will work, since Im not sure if the sliding shield will make me drop from the ledge... but if it works I would be really greatful.

Edit: Nevermind, the shield totaly stops the momentum and wont slide of the edge, it its just useless to try it like I was hoping it would work

J

 

[Masondeanm]

Hello, you just gave me an idea of way to make a move Im trying to master alot easier, I hope it works...

What I usually practice is the run out of the stage and upb without jumping to grab the ledge (just like yoshi does it with his second jump). I can make it around 30% of the time, but its way to risky, because if I up to soon, Ill stop my momentum and sing in the stage (sitting duck = free punishes), if I upb to late Ill just fall down the stage singing to my death (sounds very poetic but its not...) and even if I time it correctly, I still may miss my upb input and Ill end up jumping with the upb which makes the purpoes of doing this the fastest posible now useless (and if the oponent grabs the edge before I do, well.. you can guess what happens). I have only tried use this once in a tournament (and amazingly I was succesfull) snatching the ledge from a recovering shiek that was aiming his upb to the ledge.

What im going to try to do now is that Im going to run to the ledge, and before I drop from it Ill hit shield which will let me drift the last pixels of the ledge and go into the falling animation (it will both help me avoid either overshoting the ledge or singing before I drop frop it). and when I see myself droping I can focus mainly on time correctly the upb without jumping... still I dont know if this will work, since Im not sure if the sliding shield will make me drop from the ledge... but if it works I would be really greatful.

Edit: Nevermind, the shield totaly stops the momentum and wont slide of the edge, it its just useless to try it like I was hoping it would work

J

You've given me a great idea. I think if you WD forward and hold shield, you'll slide off the edge instead of stopping. So you theoretically can WD forward, buffer up, hold shield, then hit B when you slide off. I'm going to try this asap.

Edit: You could also potentially tomahawk and do this out of a waveland as an edge guarding mixup.

Update: may be doable, but if so it's pretty hard, didn't successfully do it even once while trying (both the waveland and wavedash).

 

[JJnew]

You've given me a great idea. I think if you WD forward and hold shield, you'll slide off the edge instead of stopping. So you theoretically can WD forward, buffer up, hold shield, then hit B when you slide off. I'm going to try this asap.

Edit: You could also potentially tomahawk and do this out of a waveland as an edge guarding mixup.

Update: may be doable, but if so it's pretty hard, didn't successfully do it even once while trying (both the waveland and wavedash).

yea Jiggly doesnt do well in the sliding part... I tried doing the running and shielding on the last frames but it was as hard as doing it without the shield and just upb

 

[Masondeanm]

yea Jiggly doesnt do well in the sliding part... I tried doing the running and shielding on the last frames but it was as hard as doing it without the shield and just upb

Sliding forward off the edge wasn't that hard, moving the joystick up fast enough to get the buffer was the hard part, because you had to be pretty close to slide off.

 

[rikabmx]

I found this by accident. I have no idea if it's new or not, but I've never seen it before. I have not tested it extensively, but I would guess that it works on every edge.

How to execute it:
1. Position yourself such that fsmashing towards an edge will cause you to teeter.
2. Fsmash towards said edge.
3. While in the fsmash animation, press up on the control stick and either L, R, or Z. Do not let go of these until Jigglypuff begins to fall. Once she's falling you can let go of whatever button you pressed, but keep the control stick upwards.
4. Once Jigglypuff if falling, press B.

What's Happening:
Turns out when you buffer a shied during Jigglypuff's fsmash, and she goes up against an edge, instead of stopping and shielding, she just falls off. Because you buffer up on the control stick during the fsmash, it doesn't register as a jump, and when you press B, that executes an Up-B (sing). As you probably know, If you sing you can grab the edge regardless of the direction you were facing, so Jigglypuff grabs the edge.

Not sure how useful this is, or if there's any other applications of falling off an edge right after an fsmash (it works on platforms too).

Provided this is actually new, I honestly don't know what to name it, but that can be figured out later.

so when you are holding up on the control stick why does the rest active or do you put the stick down. I'm so confused xD I need this.

 

[Masondeanm]

so when you are holding up on the control stick why does the rest active or do you put the stick down. I'm so confused xD I need this.

It's not rest, it's sing (up-b)

 

[HermitHelmet]

As someone said earlier, it's just a Sing-Ledgegrab with an F-Smash hitbox. It's super cool, but it'll only be useful if they can't sweetspot the ledge, and even then, it's not needed.

For example, you hit them offstage with the F-Smash and they're at any % below 30, or essentially when they're at a point where they don't have hitstun so that they can recover quickly (fox side b for example) then it could be considered useful.

Say they're recovering as Marth and you hit them with the F-Smash. If they're at a low enough percent to attempt to recover quickly with Up-B, yes, you'll edgeguard them by grabbing ledge, or they could stall with Side-B and just recover like normal (much more likely). If they're at too high of a percent, you'll knock them off with the F-Smash and they will either; not recover, die because of bad DI, or die because they're too high of a percent, which makes the ledge grab useless. Instead, you'd be better off using aerials to edgeguard because it's quicker and you don't need to commit to grabbing the ledge. F-Smashing at the specific position where you can use this tech is also another reason why this is super situational. We'd need to see it's effectiveness in a game to see, (could you record any matches where you apply it? I'm not a Puff Player anymore so I can't try it in a match lol) but from where it stands right now, it just looks like it'd be outclassed by almost anything else.

looks dank tho so we'll see

 

[Masondeanm]

As someone said earlier, it's just a Sing-Ledgegrab with an F-Smash hitbox.

I'm very aware the sing ledgegrab isn't new, and this isn't just fmash -> run off -> sing ledgegrab. What made this different was the fact that you can buffer the upwards input and slide off the stage without using the control stick—making the sing ledgegrab easy as opposed to frame perfect. I have no idea if it's any good or not, and I'd bank on not. The situation I want to try out is trying to fsmash a firefox and potentially getting the edge hog if they end up doing a mangle and the fsmash misses.

 

[AugsEU]

Here is a video demonstrating it with just a run:

 

[Masondeanm]

Here is a video demonstrating it with just a run:

Yes, I'm aware of that tech.

 

[AugsEU]

Well your tech is the same but with a Fsmash.

It's like how edge cancels are just edge cancels. You don't say that a Bair edge cancel is a different tech from a Uair cancel.

 

[Masondeanm]

Well your tech is the same but with a Fsmash.

It's like how edge cancels are just edge cancels. You don't say that a Bair edge cancel is a different tech from a Uair cancel.

Knowing how to do the running sing drop doesn't let you extrapolate how to do the fmash sing drop, to me that makes the tech different enough to be considered "new". If you don't agree than so be it.

 

[Low5_]

This tech is absolutely useful. While it is definitely a gimmick, I've found it mostly useful for baiting sheik to go for a sweetspot. Seeing as most people don't know you can fall off after an Fsmash holding L and Up, they will often think you've whiffed an edge guard, and any smart sheik wants to grab the ledge on recovery (if it looks free). That's when you drop down for a free stock. Theres not a lot of downside to this as you can still punish onstage recovery with relative ease. Most of the time the opponent still doesn't understand how they've been edge guarded.

 

[Low5_]

Also, however similar, the "new" part of this tech is the buffered drop off the edge, not the sing ledge grab. So just as Shield dropping and Shai dropping accomplish similar things within frames of each other, they are executed differently. In my opinion, that would classify this as new tech.

 

[Masondeanm]

This tech is absolutely useful. While it is definitely a gimmick, I've found it mostly useful for baiting sheik to go for a sweetspot. Seeing as most people don't know you can fall off after an Fsmash holding L and Up, they will often think you've whiffed an edge guard, and any smart sheik wants to grab the ledge on recovery (if it looks free). That's when you drop down for a free stock. Theres not a lot of downside to this as you can still punish onstage recovery with relative ease. Most of the time the opponent still doesn't understand how they've been edge guarded.

I'm glad someone found a use for it! I'll definitely try that out!

Also, however similar, the "new" part of this tech is the buffered drop off the edge, not the sing ledge grab. So just as Shield dropping and Shai dropping accomplish similar things within frames of each other, they are executed differently. In my opinion, that would classify this as new tech.

It's not just buffering a drop off the edge, it's that plus the fact that you can buffer up one the control stick while you do it.

 

[Low5_]

Regardless, I'm defending your point that it's definitely new tech. Whichever part you look at, it's definitely different from run-off sing.

 

[Masondeanm]

test

Seeing as most people don't know you can fall off after an Fsmash holding L and Up

Also, if you didn't know, the up input actually has nothing to do with falling off the edge; holding a shield button alone will do it. Just holding back on the control stick will do it as well. There may be other ways to buffer the drop, but those are the ones I know of.

Edit: Well obviously holding forward will work too lol.

 

[kingofleaves]

This is awesome! I've always found runoff up-b hard to execute when I'm nervous (since pushing the control stick up too fast results in a jump instead), but this makes it easier to trick an opponent to go for the ledge and deny them.

 

[Masondeanm]

So I think I may have found a non-gimmick use for this tech as a Luigi edge guard. If they have to side b back, fsmash to cover them going high enough for fsmash to connect, if it doesn't connect then drop down and edge hog the up b.

 

[T^2]

What I'm seeing looks kind of similar to a Luigi wavedash towards an edge, but right before the slide off to grab edge throwing out a move to stall momentum. Then after the move it sends them to edge. Looks like the momentum from the fsmash stops with just enough of a window to turnaround, and then you get pushed off while singing so you grab ledge. I might be wrong but that's what it looks like to me.

 

[Spidertotz]

This is awesome! I've always found runoff up-b hard to execute when I'm nervous (since pushing the control stick up too fast results in a jump instead), but this makes it easier to trick an opponent to go for the ledge and deny them.

I've practiced this a lot and now i'm doing this consistent enough to use it in tournament.

You just need to press up-b while you fast fall of the stage and it works every time, you just have to be fast.

 

[Low5_]

It's a good way to bait a sheik to go for the sweetspot and the denying the ledge. Other than that it's fairly gimmicky.

 

[iAmMatt]

This isn't anything new, but the snap to ledge technique with up b might be practical.
As for the whole teetering at the edge, a lot of characters have moves that do this. Falcon and ganon's dash attacks, for example.

 

[Low5_]

It's more of a "new way to hog ledge" rather than it is new tech. It's definitely not commonly utilized (regardless of how good/bad it is).

 

[Masondeanm]

This isn't anything new, but the snap to ledge technique with up b might be practical.
As for the whole teetering at the edge, a lot of characters have moves that do this. Falcon and ganon's dash attacks, for example.

Not every move that makes a character teeter can cause said character to fall off if shield is being pressed when the move lag ends.

 

[iAmMatt]

Not every move that makes a character teeter can cause said character to fall off if shield is being pressed when the move lag ends.

I know, but I forgot to mention in my previous posts that falcon and ganon's dash attacks can make them fall off the ledge if you hold the control stick in the opposite direction

 

[Masondeanm]

I know, but I forgot to mention in my previous posts that falcon and ganon's dash attacks can make them fall off the ledge if you hold the control stick in the opposite direction

Yeah that will happen with this too, so holding shield will probably cause falcon and gannon to fall off as well.

 

[JJnew]

You've given me a great idea. I think if you WD forward and hold shield, you'll slide off the edge instead of stopping. So you theoretically can WD forward, buffer up, hold shield, then hit B when you slide off. I'm going to try this asap.

Edit: You could also potentially tomahawk and do this out of a waveland as an edge guarding mixup.

Update: may be doable, but if so it's pretty hard, didn't successfully do it even once while trying (both the waveland and wavedash).

btw i know this is an old thread, but I found out how to do the run out and grab pretty consistent by modding the controller a little, you just have to do a quick comand (like a halfcircle on the joystick) inducing fastfall and sing on the drop. It works like 70-80% and when it does not work, you just pound toward the stage, so its kinda safe.

Not sure if anyone is still intrested but I was playing around with this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUq17FNSucw&t=316s (was trying to add notches to my controller so I can shielddrop consistently) and I figure out some notches where you can make an upb without jumping (between 0.55000-0.65000) I just added the notches around 0.60000 and when I run out of the stage I halfcircle the controller down and back so I fastfall and get closer to the ledge before upb its dificulty is similar to a wavedash, so its pretty easy to master soon.