New tech for Ness?

[PSI-Apocalypse]

So I've been messing around with the "pivot" (don't know how is actually called) where you djc and auto cancel an aerial to act quickly out of shield, and "discovered" something interesting.

*just works on inclined surfaces*
*For best results try on 20xx in "developer" mode*

1.- Press jump button (frame 0)
2.- hold the stick to the upper part of the surface (frame 1-3)
3.- double jump after the third frame of jump squat (hold on frame 3 to act in frame 4)
4.- Do whatever you want! you'll be in "wait" state, which means you can do anything. (frame 4)

Uses:
Anything out of shield

Is a really useful technique and is not hard to do, is just timing!

 

[Ganreizu]

Gonna need a gif or something

 

[PSI-Apocalypse]

Gonna need a gif or something

Ok, I'll try to make the gif

 

[PSI-Apocalypse]

I made instead a video https://youtu.be/iRzmc15Zpwk let me know if there are any problems with the video, please.

 

[Kevmeister]

You're actually doing something called an Instant Double Jump Cancel, where your double jump and aerial come out so quick Ness doesn't leave the ground. There's more info on it here: https://www.ssbwiki.com/Double_jump_cancel#Instant_double_jump_cancel

It's pretty cool. You can actually do it anywhere, not just on slanted surfaces, but you have to press jump twice very quickly. It is physically possible, and probably Fox double-shine level technical. It's probably easier on a slanted surface because you reach the ground quicker. In your video, you're doing instant double jump cancel fair into the ground. Technically, you can do it with any aerial, but from my messing around, dair and upair are probably the easiest to get it with.

Like you said, Ness can do any grounded action out of it, and I'm almost positive it's faster than wavedash OOS. It might be faster than nair out of shield, if you cancel it into jab or dtilt. I've also gotten some really fast fsmashes OOS with it.

The big problem I've had is consistency and execution. Basically, you're going to get arthritis if you have to mash x or y that quickly too many times in a match, especially out of shield and with additional inputs afterwards. Nessbox please?

I'm going to keep testing out stuff, but thanks for posting about it! I would have never looked into it if you hadn't said anything. I can make a GIF or video about it, if anyone cares enough.

The inputs are: (Jump) (Jump) (aerial [I suggest dair/uair])
Looks easy enough, but you gotta mash that x/y button hella fast. Within a few frames of each other, actually. If done correctly, you'll stay on the ground (in idle animation, after 4 frames of regular landing lag) and the little light from your double jump will pop up. I'm not liable for any wrist pain.

 

[PSI-Apocalypse]

I know about that technique, the one that you're saying is different from the one on the video. In the djc aerial cancel you've got to do an aerial, on inclined surfaces there's no need to do any aerial input, just hold the stick to the upper side of the surface.

Frame data of the fist (djcac)
Jump button frame 0
Knee bend 1,2,3
While on frame 3 you press jump again
Double jump frame 4
Any aerial, Nair is recommended because pulls you downwards
Frame 5 landing
Frame 6-9 auto-cancel landing lag
So you are able to act on frame 10.

Now (double jump jump cancel (?))
Jump button frame 0
Knee bend frame 1,2,3
On frame 3 hold the stick to the upper side of the surface and press jump
Wait state frame 4
You are able to act on frame 5, 5 frames of difference.

And about viability; both techniques aren't that hard.I have done many times djcac out of shield and fewer times djjc but it's just matter of practice.

What I use for the djcac is tap jump, x and a for Nair

And for djjc sometimes tap jump, hold to the side and x. other times hold to the side on the stick while in shield and pres y followed by x. You have to be very precise on both techniques because you have just 1 frame to doit correctly .

 

[Kevmeister]

Ah my bad. I personally hate tap jump but i might have to use it for this :D

 

[PSI-Apocalypse]

Ah my bad. I personally hate tap jump but i might have to use it for this :D

It's easier, but is not impossible with the buttons only, actually for the actual tech is best with buttons, but for the other attacks afterwards, it's faster with tap jump

 

[Ganreizu]

I use tap jump for everything it's the best for ness and almost no one else.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

This is a Peach technique called the "Prince Pivot." This happens because Peach's doublejump causes her to dip down slightly, so if she jumps and doublejumps fast enough she will instead do a no-impact landing directly on the ground beneath her. This allows her to act OoS in many unique ways. The only other character who can do this with their jump is Yoshi, but he can't jump OoS. Ness' jump doesn't dip down which is why he can't do unless he is facing into a slope...the same conditions should apply to Mewtwo.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Also: The frame data will change depending on the incline of the slope.

And for reference, here is a video about the Peach technique(its actually a pretty old technique even though the name is new): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjX8_hsuXtc

 

[PSI-Apocalypse]

I was familiar with the "prince pivot" and also knew what was happening (double jump landing because of the slope) but called it a new tech because I didn't see it applied for Ness, so is not really a new tech, but maybe for Ness it is. Also, I've tried it on various surfaces with different inclinations, and in most of them the frame data is exactly the same, also discovered that works on water transformation in pokemon stadium, below the platforms on the right, where there is a little cylinder shooting water at the platforms

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu2X26ysfDs

 

[PSI-Apocalypse]

Ok, I get it, I'll make a video showcasing and explaining the whole thing.