New Sheik Tech?

[GX2]

Has anyone done this with sheik before? if not im calling it the booster shot. More importantly, can you guys think of anyway this could be viable?

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?...770251&type=2&theater&notif_t=video_processed

 

[beanwolf]

How exactly is this performed? Keeping momentum while throwing needles is interesting if nothing else.

Can it be done off the side of the stage or is it limited to platforms? Do you need a charge for it or is it doable with one needle?

 

[GX2]

basically off of any edge not just platforms, you run off then the moment you are off of the edge/platform you throw any number of needles. you can also store needles as well. one more thing i should point out is that the shorter the distance you start the run the wierder the properties. for example, on the battlefield platform i started the run half way on the platform, though i didnt keep my momentum, i lost all of my needles without a single one being shot.

 

[Scroll]

This is not new. It's exactly the mechanics in the works of the well known Voodoo Dash.
You are able to retain the momentum you got while grounded by pressing neutral B as you leave the platform.
It is not platform specific. It works off the stage, randall etc.

 

[Shrug]

I never thought to use this property with Sheik's needles, but it seems like a neat way to mix up your needle use.

 

[Arrestme]

Fairly certain there's a bit more to this than that. Something more practical though is simple fast fall needling, although definitely not as charming.
Here's something different yet interesting: Today irl I spiked a peach player with Sheik's Up-B. Totally above stage, but close to enough to the edge where it was probably a disjointed stage spike caused by the up-B, now that I think about it.

 

[GX2]

I encourage you guys to give it a try

 

[Arrestme]

I encourage you guys to give it a try

I did for a good hour or so before my initial post, & never quite zoned in on anything exact, and still completely unsure of what you meant by "weird". I did however recreate the maneuver on many stages, noticing from higher up the horizontal movement subsides pretty much instantly, which bummed me out just a bit.

More things I noticed @ first glance exploring execution...
taking into account your "weird physics"/"half platform run" comment, reminded me of Melee's "tippy toes" mechanics which stop anyone from walking off a ledge if holding forward only too slightly. I theorize this (maybe in error) as the point to target for where u press B to needle, over using neutral (to preserve momentum? also no risk of RNC) simultaneously also where u change your thumbstick direction from full forward, to only slightly forward (just not too forward where chain comes out), to immediately stop into the tippy toe animation.
(The dumb theory of mine here thinks this percieved stop in momentum has a window where u can "revive it". Since normally the only way to cancel the tippy toe animation & not move backward/forward at all is to throw a needle normally. In normal circumstances this does just that and brings you back into just standing animation. So the momentum of earlier of our tippy toed dash, is theorized to be "revived" by that act, allowing the player to then fall off. Mayb. Don't even read this crap, wait until somebody can talk in facts from debug mode. But here's a simpler step-sequence with less "Theory":

Thinking these things, let me:
1.) Starting from 1 platform side facing the opposite.
2.) I fully hold forward towards it until the very last second before off the platform (the same spot Sheik "tippy toes" at an edge like she's dizzy).
3.) Instead of "sliding" off by letting go of Direction stick into neutral position, I move it as fast as i can into a slightly tipped forward (not enough for chain, but enough to move forward momentum-wise). This starts the tippy-toe animation put it for stopping slow walks from being able to walk off any ledge.
4.) At this moment press B to send out needle/s.
5.) Direction stick immediately back to fully forward to continue the original dashes momentum.


Although this is how I was doing it, I couldn't get it every time & I don't even think it all accurate. BUT I'm with the OP here in hoping to eliminate/compromise aspects of the status of it's execution currently being "theory", & hope to as well progress it out and in to speakable game physics correct enough to finally become a repeatable maneuver.

 

[GX2]

the timing is tricky; but, i found, for me personally, that your 5 steps made the timing easier. at the very least sheik isnt stuck on the platform in the tippy toe animation, but rather is moving foward in the air. i feel that if we master this tech we could add something truly unique and powerful to shiek movement over all.

 

[GX2]

maybe this tech could possibly revolutionize they way sheik main's play. that should be one of our goals here on the sheik forums

 

[Arrestme]

I could see that happening, but hopefully if it gets easier to do. I'll try later to see if she can get a fair out before landing. Even so, if that's not possible, it means "needle throwing" land frames are gonna be active so going from a higher platform to a lower one would grant fast isaiah drop/fair+dairs. Additionally, I used to practice going from high plat to the lower with a fast falling reversed needle throw toward center stage (dunno why, it might not be as effective as the simpler regular fall), getting me wondering if Voodoo dash can be done in reverse like that, leaving her farther landing distance on lower plat if needed. The possible applications of this is interesting, just hard to test even these things when I only execute it 1/6 times if I'm lucky.

Somehow it's even harder doing at anything but normal speeds, which me thinks is cuz my reasoning on execution is flawed. Maybe we can get a hold of the original video maker? Or maybe @ Scroll can give us a little more insight. Or maybe I'll just google "Voodoo Dash" a bit harder, and post later that I'm an idiot. xD

 

[Scroll]

I could see that happening, but hopefully if it gets easier to do. I'll try later to see if she can get a fair out before landing. Even so, if that's not possible, it means "needle throwing" land frames are gonna be active so going from a higher platform to a lower one would grant fast isaiah drop/fair+dairs. Additionally, I used to practice going from high plat to the lower with a fast falling reversed needle throw toward center stage (dunno why, it might not be as effective as the simpler regular fall), getting me wondering if Voodoo dash can be done in reverse like that, leaving her farther landing distance on lower plat if needed. The possible applications of this is interesting, just hard to test even these things when I only execute it 1/6 times if I'm lucky.

Somehow it's even harder doing at anything but normal speeds, which me thinks is cuz my reasoning on execution is flawed. Maybe we can get a hold of the original video maker? Or maybe @ Scroll can give us a little more insight. Or maybe I'll just google "Voodoo Dash" a bit harder, and post later that I'm an idiot. xD

The Voodoo Dash is a Luigi tech. You WD back and shoot a neutral B as you leave the platform and so you can reach far and beyond with Bair or whatever you want. I am not the expert, so I can't help you much with the technique. But I do agree that it could be another spice in the Sheik neutral game movement as well as a possible gimping ingredient.

 

[GX2]

I could see that happening, but hopefully if it gets easier to do. I'll try later to see if she can get a fair out before landing. Even so, if that's not possible, it means "needle throwing" land frames are gonna be active so going from a higher platform to a lower one would grant fast isaiah drop/fair+dairs. Additionally, I used to practice going from high plat to the lower with a fast falling reversed needle throw toward center stage (dunno why, it might not be as effective as the simpler regular fall), getting me wondering if Voodoo dash can be done in reverse like that, leaving her farther landing distance on lower plat if needed. The possible applications of this is interesting, just hard to test even these things when I only execute it 1/6 times if I'm lucky.

Somehow it's even harder doing at anything but normal speeds, which me thinks is cuz my reasoning on execution is flawed. Maybe we can get a hold of the original video maker? Or maybe @ Scroll can give us a little more insight. Or maybe I'll just google "Voodoo Dash" a bit harder, and post later that I'm an idiot. xD

I am the video maker

 

[GX2]

I did this thing on accident and recreated it to put it on video. then made a smashboards account to get some insight from my fellow smashers

 

[Arrestme]

Ok I'm on a roll here, gonna give it more time. I found some simpler methods, kind of....but omgee!

@ Scroll wow that was surprisingly obvious; consider me suitably embarrassed! My "simpler method" was sort of similar, but as of yet I wasn't able to translate either into the signature "Voodoo Dash" Sheik animates. Also, GX2, doesn't this kind of mean it's markedly different than Luigi's, therefore you can pick a name for it still? Why the "Booster shot", this stemming from any fantasies about Sheik we should be aware of involving nurse outfits / etc? XD jk

If we find the mechanics are different enough, maybe you can shoot out a few more ideas for it. The biggest difference I see i that Sheik kind of crazily air-angles downward; giving horizontal distance during that animation, although arguably a fairly small distance, any distance at all is virtually unheard of in ANY other possible needling scenario I can think of.

The next part will be application of it, how is it useful, or different than Luigi's? I think we have part of that answer but not all. Again I'M EXCITED, cuz I also found another hidden Sheik move within this testing, by accident I haven't mentioned yet. But I want to do more testing on my actual Gamecube/etc. So we might both me penning a new name for 2 new moves in this thread thanks to GX2's share, and my neediness for my parents approval. BBL xD

 

[Scroll]

I am sure GX2 is not the first to discover this secret technique :D I too found it on my own a while back and briefly talked to Kadano about it. Later I noticed M2K have used it a few times

 

[Arrestme]

meh i noticed somethings, to explain to someone the relevance just joining would need like a video progression. but here goes some....
when i canceled my edge dash-off fall with the tippy toe thing, so i don't fall off, i noticed sometimes when i press b after that it goes out + downward like I did a jump when i didn't. I was trying to replicate that but got stuck doin other stuff.

2 things affecting this tho, the basic game rule that says if edge is within your immediate dash-dance circle (the lines at which u can't continue dash-dancing back toward your original point) you'll just slide & drop off the edge. Because it's in that animation of being able to "emergency break" when u dash 1 way and immediately let go to neutral. So I was using it to practice tap dash forward, then i could hold tilt in any direction and spam B until the "emergency break" runs me off the edge, and ill immediately do a needle off the edge in any direction i want easily.

If you dash past that point of "no DD return", and run out the initial sprint that allows for quick turn-arounds/DDing, you go into that run that gives u a slower turnaround, if u try to turn around. This is the moment/run that will not fall off edges if you run towards with it and let go of your Analog stick. Not like the last one, youll slide until it tippy toe stops you.. (you can actually slide/fall off edge with pressing/holding shield at the very edge and that somehow is enough to push u past the tippy-toe stop and allow the "slide-off" from the slower dash).

So for practicing; once more:

Approach A.
1.) the DD fast Sprinting zone's distance away from the edge is great for doing easier luigi-type VOODOO dashes (some reason i can't explain, but i can "sheik voodoo dash" more consistently trying to tippy toe interrupt with Approach B found below).
2.) basically start with your char in between the center of a battlefield plat and the edge of that same plat. Then u can smash 1 way, and quickly tilt whichever way you want needles to end up coming out of @ edge drop, and just spam B until the DD sprint takes u off the edge)
Approach B.
1.) The slower run that requires u to have been running already past the initial sprint, and past the point of "no dash dance return". U need to use this approach if you want to experiment with anything else. Tip-toeing is only available with this approach + I get the horizontal with it a lot more.
2.) start on one side of plat, facing the other side you'll be running off of, and good luck.

One last thing, I was doing it almost every time on 1x speed easily because i got it in my head I'd use Approach B, without trying to stop my dash. Tip-toe-stopping in our jawdins, i don't think is the answer here. But i think u need to do approach b to get maximum horizontal distance. The key here being holding down. Yes, I'm starting to think, somehow this **** angles our fast fall physics, where holding down makes u travel that way faster. Sounds weird but I dunno, it's where I left off, so don't quote me.
Try it urself: Use Approach B, and run right off it , do not tilt for toe-tipping, but once you're off the edge you can't be holding forward (you can be tilting it tho if u want, but it can be neutral) to throw a needle and then hold down for the FF (or whatever it is).

we mostly kno most of this I kno but i think its relevant. & good to practice each scenario to see what variables are required. but it's bothering me even more now, might give it another shot. Or I might go yell at my parents for a while for not accepting me.

 

[Arrestme]

@ Scroll I'm pretty sure you're right. so never mind. but, dunno if it was dolphin glitches, but i a few times had needle flying down from just standing on edge of plat after mess with with this "approach b" and interrupting it with random stuff. I used 20xx cuz i can see hitboxes easier, but ill use live GC later and just place a char center bottom and wait for a hit.

 

[Scroll]

@ Scroll I'm pretty sure you're right. so never mind. but, dunno if it was dolphin glitches, but i a few times had needle flying down from just standing on edge of plat after mess with with this "approach b" and interrupting it with random stuff. I used 20xx cuz i can see hitboxes easier, but ill use live GC later and just place a char center bottom and wait for a hit.

I wonder what you mean by Approach B.
Can you try and replecate the standing angled needle? that sounds very interesting

And btw the official names are simply Dash and Run. You can see all of the action state names if you turn on Develop in the debug menu and toggle the indicators on during a fight.

 

[GX2]

I am sure GX2 is not the first to discover this secret technique :D I too found it on my own a while back and briefly talked to Kadano about it. Later I noticed M2K have used it a few times

if anything else lets make this tech popular; but first we gotta deduce the actual timing instead of estimating it.

 

[GX2]

i have been trying all of the different methods we have been describing, but i believe that for this tech to be successful, it all boils down to when b is pressed.

1. sometimes i start at the end of one platform, run to the other side, then press b when i would get the tippy toe animation, and it would work.

2. sometimes i would run from one platform side to another, then press b at the absolute end of the platform, then press foward again and it would work

3. like in 2 instead of pressing foward i would try fast falling in its place, and even that worked

point being, yes there are many ways to do this tech; however, it appears that each method is trying to teach us the real time to press b.

we have to kept digging deeper, and as we have seen for ourselves other properties can happen from just attempting this tech.

for example, i was able to throw a needle horizontally ( meaning i was still standing ) then i would just slide of the platform automatically. that means i could cover 2 areas with my needles/attacks in quick succession.

 

[GX2]

spread the word we need more RAM!

 

[Arrestme]

spread the word we need more RAM!

Here here ! & a lot more red bulls. I have been just as stuck on the B part. I didn't notice that sliding thing you mean, any way you can repeat it consistently to share more? I'm trying to get that downward needle to come out without having to jump or run off edge. You didn't happen to do that at all by accident?

Unfort I have a bit on my plate atm. But i'm downloading gta v..err i uhh screenshots. Yes, i meant to say downloading 60gb worth of gta v screenshots. So my inet ain't the best atm. Might do some projects of stuff & also maybe mess with the debug mode @ Scroll reminded of. I forgot about that. Would be nice to see if I'm passing through any certain states consistently. But yea I just meant dash/run, but those terms may easily misconstrue, where one oft not have misconstruing.

Also, did any of you get to try the "buffer needling" with that dash off ? u can spam the direction of needle u want to throw SUPER early, ensuring it execute flawlessly. Just make sure you dash toward the edge within that DDance zone, and it'll push u off doing that simple smash of the Direction stick. u can immediately let go of direction stick to neutral. You're on ur way to running off and nothing u can do about it now! :D Lucky for us, that means B and tilting in any direction doesn't do anything. So the moment u dash, let go and tilt for ur needle immediately, even in the opposite direction to send a needle under the platform you're running off of if u want if someone is there, just keep that angle held and spam pressing B until animation finishes & it'll send a needle as soon as u step off.
Trip prob knows this, but i was amazed how easy this whole thing made a move like that for me. Never thought there'd b a shortcut like this for something like that. Another gem! But now onto the gem mines! *.*

 

[tauKhan]

Like some have said here, this technique is possible because some specials don't limit your aerial max speed like regular fall does. So it's for the same reason as vududash works as some have said here, and it can be done with many chars and special attacks.

@Kadano, @ schmooblidon
How exactly does this work? Do you output the special attack while still on the ground, or on the 1st aerial frame? (I'm guessing the former)

 

[schmooblidon]

Like some have said here, this technique is possible because some specials don't limit your aerial max speed like regular fall does. So it's for the same reason as vududash works as some have said here, and it can be done with many chars and special attacks.

@Kadano, @ schmooblidon
How exactly does this work? Do you output the special attack while still on the ground, or on the 1st aerial frame? (I'm guessing the former)

Either. If you are in Fall for the first airborne frame you will slow to 0.8 (max air speed), but if it's the needle throw then you will retain the speed.

The first airborne frame of the needle throw, you will lose 0.16 velocity, and each frame you are still grounded will lose 0.16 also. From the second airborne frame onward you lose only 0.04, so performing it as close to the edge as possible for maximum effect.

 

[tauKhan]

The first airborne frame of the needle throw, you will lose 0.16 velocity, and each frame you are still grounded will lose 0.16 also.

So you'll lose speed according to the grounded traction even on 1st aerial frame? I'm trying to understand why this doesn't work with some moves, for example pika downb and yl boomerang, which don't limit speed when done out of jump. I guess they lose a lot of speed even when initiated on the 1st aerial frame?

 

[Spoice]

I'm trying to think how this could be used practically, all I've got is that it could help with camping maybe?

 

[schmooblidon]

So you'll lose speed according to the grounded traction even on 1st aerial frame? I'm trying to understand why this doesn't work with some moves, for example pika downb and yl boomerang, which don't limit speed when done out of jump. I guess they lose a lot of speed even when initiated on the 1st aerial frame?

I guess it's to do with the order melee checks states and calculates velocity. When you run off an edge without any moves, on the frame you transition from grounded to airborne you move as fast as your grounded speed was, even though your velocity is now air speed (which will now be used for the following frames). So when sheik starts a needle while she is still grounded, she will be grounded for part of the frame and suffer traction, and will still be fast enough to go past the edge, and will be airborne by the end of the frame.

Grounded Boomerang from dash puts velocity at 0 and from run it drops to 0.24 or less. So on the frame you start it, he will move at that speed on the ground and it makes it very difficult to reach the edge. Even with the spacing to do so, you have such little velocity, you practically drop straight down.

I don't know why pika's thunder doesn't work honestly. As soon as he goes airborne he gets airspeed, guess it's a property with the attack?

 

[EddyBearr]

So.. This is a nearly frame perfect tech? I don't like frame perfect techs, but this looks like an awesome mix-up/approach. And, I assume the 0.80 is "melee meters per frame"?

I'll refer to it as Sheik's Vudu [Dash/Apprach/Boost] so to continue to give my respects to the amazing Vudujin.

EDIT:
Test done with @protato on his stream, found that frame perfect (22 frame initation off max-distance battlefield platform) needles lead to further distance than simple run off + max drift, and that frame 19 needles give comparable distance to max drift. You have to put stick to neutral and input b on the same frame, and there's a modest window in which you can activate before falling off in which you can needle and still shoot them out.

The Input: Stick to Neutral AND Press B during same frame at any point during run. A lenient window for a 1 frame input.
*REMEMBER TO LET GO OF DIRECTION ON FRAME PRIOR SO IT GOES TO NEUTRAL DURING THE NEXT FRAME.

Frame *16: Just a placeholder, Sheik is near the ledge and is in run
Frame 17: Sheik does the input, and it FAILS. Sheik will ledge cancel her own needles and you will lose any charge without releasing any
Frame 18: Earliest possible input. BETTER than run-off needle already as run-off needle leads to Sheik plummeting Stick to Neutral AND Press B during same frame.
Frame 19: Input is possible, better than frame 18 for distance.
Frame 20: Input is possible, about as good as natural drift in terms of distance
Frame 21: Input is possible, better than frame 20 for distance
Frame 22: Latest possible input. Noticeably further in distance than run-off + drift w/o needles.
Frame 23: Sheik falls off platform

*16 is an arbitrary number as you can do it at any point during a run

So you have a 5 frame window before you fall off a ledge to do a 1 frame combination of stick to neutral and pressing b to release needles. Doing so let's you lunge forward with your needles, giving you an approach option.


Benefits:
+Significantly longer needle approach
+All the follow-ups of any needle approach
+Sheik's range off a platform is noticeably larger.
+Needles are amazing anyways, auto-cancels and etc
+Relatively lenient timing window for the input, as any of the 5 possible frames appears to be better than run-off needle alone.
+Can be practiced alone, at home, without anyone
+If you mis-space, you auto-cancel anyways, so you're pretty safe.

Drawbacks:
-Potential to release chain with input failure
-Potential to skid animation with input failure
-Distance varies, meaning it's hard to space with precisely
-Potential to lose all needles if done just before the viable input window
-1 frame co-input
-Dependent on quality of control stick

Evaluation of Drawbacks:
~Chain sucks, but it's only if you screw up.
~Skid animation can be interrupted with a lot of things so not much risk there.
+Needles on the ground are always nice, and you auto-cancel anyways
+Neutral free-fall state so you have fair/nair protection
-1 frame input is tricky
-Control sticks suck


A video of this will likely be made in not too long thanks to Protato having done this on stream.


I'm practicing this on battlefield and it feels both easy and extremely big for Sheik. You can use it to run off platform or stage for deep edgeguards (fair after needle), it's a great approach.. this is great.

 

[tauKhan]

@ EddyBearr I think it would be wise not to name this specifically for sheik, since this technique is applicable with tons of chars and attacks as I mentioned. So far I've done these with pills, fireballs, thunder jolts, bow, shield breaker, shine etc. It's also a new way to take advantage of higher special speedlimit. I think runvudu would be a good term.

 

[EddyBearr]

@ EddyBearr I think it would be wise not to name this specifically for sheik, since this technique is applicable with tons of chars and attacks as I mentioned. So far I've done these with pills, fireballs, thunder jolts, bow, shield breaker, shine etc. It's also a new way to take advantage of higher special speedlimit. I think runvudu would be a good term.

Sheik's Vududash, Marth's Vududash. Kinda like Falcon's Moonwalk or Marth's Moonwalk.

I think a slightly different name than Vududash would be appropriate. I've been liking "Complex vududash" when referring particularly to the neutral b moves due to the more complex inputs required. I think run-off shine should be considered something different from run off neutral-B.

 

[tauKhan]

The momentum preserving runshine from edge works for the same reason as neutral b's, and is performed same way, so why not include it?

 

[EddyBearr]

The momentum preserving runshine from edge works for the same reason as neutral b's, and is performed same way, so why not include it?

Because it is not actually performed the same way. The difference is that you can up-B, down-B, or side-B out of a run, but you can not neutral B out of a run. To use needles or etc off ledge, you have to let the stick go to neutral during the exact same frame as B is pressed. Even on frame later on pressing b leads you to being unable to press B due to skid animation.

 

[tauKhan]

Because it is not actually performed the same way. The difference is that you can up-B, down-B, or side-B out of a run, but you can not neutral B out of a run. To use needles or etc off ledge, you have to let the stick go to neutral during the exact same frame as B is pressed. Even on frame later on pressing b leads you to being unable to press B due to skid animation.

You can neutral b out of run precisely the same way as you can down b out of run. Yeah you have to be frame perfect to avoid run stop, but that's also true for down b. In fact I'm currently practicing to shine out of run, because I suck at it and always enter run stop trying to do it. For upb and sideb avoiding run stop is trivial of course though.

 

[EddyBearr]

You can neutral b out of run precisely the same way as you can down b out of run. Yeah you have to be frame perfect to avoid run stop, but that's also true for down b. In fact I'm currently practicing to shine out of run, because I suck at it and always enter run stop trying to do it. For upb and sideb avoiding run stop is trivial of course though.

Test it with Marth who has a long skid in 1/4 speed on Training mode. You can down-B out of skid animation. You can also crouch to cancel skid animation, which may or may not be the cause of down-B out of skid. You can also down-B at any point during a run, just as you can crouch out of run.

I know this to be true 100%. I also have no issue at all with shine out of run or any other down-B out of run, but haven't come close to perfecting neutral B out of run.

 

[tauKhan]

Test it with Marth who has a long skid in 1/4 speed on Training mode. You can down-B out of skid animation. You can also crouch to cancel skid animation, which may or may not be the cause of down-B out of skid. You can also down-B at any point during a run, just as you can crouch out of run.

I know this to be true 100%. I also have no issue at all with shine out of run or any other down-B out of run, but haven't come close to perfecting neutral B out of run.

I regularly mess up running shine because I press down b during run stop, i.e 1 frame too late. It's no different from running neutral b. Test it out: go into run, release the stick and pause. Hold down b and unpause, and nothing happens. If you never have problems with running shines, you're probably doing slow run - > crouch shines (not definitely though, but I would guess so, since actual running shine is hard for me at least.)

You can of course crouch out of the run stop and then down b 1 frame later, BUT you can also crouch and do the neutral b at the same timing. There's no difference.

 

[EddyBearr]

I regularly mess up running shine because I press down b during run stop, i.e 1 frame too late. It's no different from running neutral b. Test it out: go into run, release the stick and pause. Hold down b and unpause, and nothing happens. If you never have problems with running shines, you're probably doing slow run - > crouch shines (not definitely though, but I would guess so, since actual running shine is hard for me at least.)

You can of course crouch out of the run stop and then down b 1 frame later, BUT you can also crouch and do the neutral b at the same timing. There's no difference.

I attempted in 1/4 training mode to do a down-B during mid-frames of skid animation, and it appeared to not crouch while still working. Still entirely confident down-B out of run is not frame perfect. I don't have trouble with running shine because I practiced it a little bit, because it is a little weird to get used to at first.

 

[tauKhan]

Nah you can't. Do the pause test. I'll summon @ schmooblidon to confirm this if you wish.

 

[EddyBearr]

Post on reddit from someone:
"A running shine out of a dash (not the starting dash animation, such as when you're dash dancing) is actually more than just down + B. You are actually crouching very briefly to cancel your dash before activating the shine,"

If this is the case (it is indeed crouch into shine out of run) as I alluded to earlier, then it's still not frame perfect as you can down-B at any point during crouch and you can crouch at any point during run or skid.

Getting a more definitive answer from Schmooblidon would be very nice, though.

 

[tauKhan]

Post on reddit from someone:
"A running shine out of a dash (not the starting dash animation, such as when you're dash dancing) is actually more than just down + B. You are actually crouching very briefly to cancel your dash before activating the shine,"

It's very common for players to do run -> crouch -> shines, because they're easier. But true running shine is faster, and can be done from shorter range and yields more slide after the shine hits which can be useful. You can confirm the existence by going into run, pausing, inputting down b, unpausing. You'll see that shine happens.