New punish option

[Jalil]

I've been playing around with footstools out of shield lately and came across a few reliable and relatively easy combo's.

So far from what I've tested, you can punish the endlag of any grab or landing lag of any aerial with a regular footstool. I said regular cuz the end animation of some attacks can't be interrupted with a footstool. Even though you still jump, your opponent is unaffected.

At low percents pac can do a footstool out of shield, immediately drop a hydrant then combo from the hydrant to an aerial, fruit or quick normal. When possible, fsoos(I know the acronym's booty) is more rewarding than the standard nair, jab, trampoline or fruit throw out of shield.

At higher percents pac can do footstool->hydrant->key and even kill when close the the ledge.

There's lots of other moves whose endlag you can punish with a regular footstool but I'm too lazy to find them all.

 

[Pixel_]

Jab1 > Jab2 combos into footstool, right? That'd help with those other attacks that give a phantom footstool.

 

[PEPESPAIN]

Can you upload vines of this? I think we need to see it to understand correctly. If you can't send me the replay and I'll do it

 

[Jalil]

That's creative, I never thought of comboing footstools from jabs.
After testing it out for a lil while, both jab 1-->footstool and jab 2-->footstool are guaranteed on characters who aren't super fast fallers (sheik, fox, greninja etc). It's only true at point blank tho

Edit: I'll post a vid of it later

 

[Jalil]

I don't have a capture card and android cameras suck so this'll have to do The one that starts from jab has a tight window and you have to be point blank so it's not as easy too do.

 

[Pixel_]

That's creative, I never thought of comboing footstools from jabs.
After testing it out for a lil while, both jab 1-->footstool and jab 2-->footstool are guaranteed on characters who aren't super fast fallers (sheik, fox, greninja etc). It's only true at point blank tho

Edit: I'll post a vid of it later

I actually got it by watching Zage so it's not like I made it up
Even though it only works at point blank, that wouldn't make the range much different from a footstool by itself, would it?

 

[Jalil]

I actually got it by watching Zane so it's not like I made it up
Even though it only works at point blank, that wouldn't make the range much different from a footstool by itself, would it?

Yeah it's about the same distance.

 

[NouveauRétro]

That's creative, I never thought of comboing footstools from jabs.
After testing it out for a lil while, both jab 1-->footstool and jab 2-->footstool are guaranteed on characters who aren't super fast fallers (sheik, fox, greninja etc). It's only true at point blank tho

This I gotta see, I tried it myself and was somewhat inconsistent in slow-mo. Tested in slow-mo with the character holding shield. It seems possible. I need to know the execution though, the timing and spacing.

 

[Jalil]

This I gotta see, I tried it myself and was somewhat inconsistent in slow-mo. Tested in slow-mo with the character holding shield. It seems possible. I need to know the execution though, the timing and spacing.

It seems like it works best at percents when jab brings your opponent off the ground a lil but not high enough that they can get an aerial out. The percent range where this happens should be pretty big on mid-weights, smaller on floaties and really narrow (if possible at all) on fast fallers. Most fast fallers can hold shield before you can footstool.
Needs more testing just to make sure. I would done it myself but Imma be really busy this week with finals and allat

 

[Pixel_]

Threw together a quick video.

Description:
First of all I want to say that this is NOT my discovery; I saw Zage do it and I think it's cool

Basically just do a Jab1, Jab2, then footstool the opponent. Holding down Forward on the second jump will make this a lot easier; I think Down works too. The footstool combos into Hydrant, especially if the opponent is put into footstool tumble, but I didn't do that here.

 

[NouveauRétro]

It seems like it works best at percents when jab brings your opponent off the ground a lil but not high enough that they can get an aerial out. The percent range where this happens

?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but jab 1 and 2 have set weight-based knockback.
Same knockback at 0% as 999%
Although rage could affect it...

 

[Sluigi123]

Rage affects all types of knockback, including weight knockback. As far as I know, Jab1's knockback can be within ranges of 22/10 (No Rage) and 25.3/11.5 (With Max Rage), since 2 of its hitboxes are different in terms of knockback. In other words, it's easier to do this combo if you're at least 150% of damage.

NouveauRétro Yes, both Jab1 & 2 are Weight-Based.

Here's the differences:

W/o Rage | W/ Rage​

Jab1

Knockback:

22/10 | 25.3/11.5​

Jab2

Knockback:

26/16 | 29.9/18.4​

 

[NouveauRétro]

Rage affects all types of knockback, including weight knockback. As far as I know, Jab1's knockback can be within ranges of 22/10 (No Rage) and 25.3/11.5 (With Max Rage), since 2 of its hitboxes are different in terms of knockback. In other words, it's easier to do this combo if you're at least 150% of damage.

NouveauRétro Yes, both Jab1 & 2 are Weight-Based.

Here's the differences:

W/o Rage | W/ Rage​

Jab1

Knockback:

22/10 | 25.3/11.5​

Jab2

Knockback:

26/16 | 29.9/18.4​

Thanks for the interesting numbers.
Might have to try adding jab-jab-footstool nair to the evergrowing list of clutch Pacman kill tricks!
Is there an existing... something... to figure out hitstun based on weight's knockback?

 

[Pixel_]

Thanks for the interesting numbers.
Might have to try adding jab-jab-footstool nair to the evergrowing list of clutch Pacman kill tricks!
Is there an existing... something... to figure out hitstun based on weight's knockback?

this? http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Calculator

 

[NouveauRétro]

this? http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Calculator

I'm not sure/don't think if I can get WBKB off of this. Been using it for a few weeks now, that's why I asked.
Of course, this is mostly because I'm not sure how WBKB changes with weight, whether it's a categorical or proportional change, that kinda thing.

 

[ZeoLightning]

Ok good this is a thread i needed, i've been theory crafting about the possibilities of footstooling

 

[ZeoLightning]

oh **** the hell yes, ITS ALL TRUE!

 

[ZeoLightning]

for more info on this, (THIS ALSO GOES FOR THE HYDRANT) the direction your opponent is sent from the bell when you footstool them is based on what direction they're back is facing. so if shiek if facing to the right she will fly left.

You can jump Out of shield and immediately footstool any Aerial if your opponent misspaces or your close enough. you can also Footstool Grab attempts. Depending on the percents from 80 upwards will link into Side B, But if it gets too high you may need to double jump Side B

 

[dragontamer]

Punish Shiek's Fair. That's pretty good actually.... very applicable.

 

[Hxey]

To the guy who said knockback direction with bell and hydrant is dependent on which way the opponent is facing, that's just flat out false. It depends on which side of the opponent's body the projectile hits. They can fly left or right at any given moment, it doesn't matter which direction they're facing. It only matters what spacing your projectile hits at. If it hits the left side of the opponent, he'll fly right* (my bad). And vice versa.

This is why bell spiking is possible on an opponent hanging on the ledge of lipped stages but only if you hit the backside of the opponent. Hit the front and he'll fly the wrong way

Also, that was a dope setup you found there. Just wanted to clarify. What I said means you can do this even more consistently!

 

[ZeoLightning]

To the guy who said knockback direction with bell and hydrant is dependent on which way the opponent is facing, that's just flat out false. It depends on which side of the opponent's body the projectile hits. They can fly left or right at any given moment, it doesn't matter which direction they're facing. It only matters what spacing your projectile hits at. If it hits the left side of the opponent, he'll fly right* (my bad). And vice versa.

This is why bell spiking is possible on an opponent hanging on the ledge of lipped stages but only if you hit the backside of the opponent. Hit the front and he'll fly the wrong way

Also, that was a dope setup you found there. Just wanted to clarify. What I said means you can do this even more consistently!

If you footstool a character you are DIRECTLY above them, meaning the only way to tell what direction they will be sent in is to know what direction they're Back is facing

 

[Hxey]

wow really? That's actually really good info to know. Thanks dude