New PM Marth main

[Kulty]

Hi guys,

I have little to no competitive experience when playing Melee Marth. I decided to pick up PM, because I'm more appealed to the roster and the game balance as opposed to Melee. So for that, I decided to main him along with Wario as a secondary (for now). Basically, I have some questions:
1) Are watching Melee Marth tutorials worth my time? Do they apply the same way as in PM?
2) What should Marth's neutral look like?
3) Do you think that Marth will need a second character later on the metagame due to the harsher environment?
4) Do chaingrabs on spacies work the same way as in Melee? If no, what is different? (check this for reference:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSEcRDiOSqk&list=PLoU3TQBakHOqTUZpyYJoP6usmYGQKmolx&index=4)
5) Most common bad MUs for Marth?
6) Most useful Brawl techniques that I can utilize for Marth?
7) What is a good daily practice routine for Marth in PM? Can it be similar to this video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_0v9J54eNc

Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions. XD

 

[cisyphus]

1. Melee and PM Marth are quite similar and you'll likely find that PM Marth excels in small ways over Melee Marth due to the shifted physics engine, the existence of b-reversing specials, and slight buffs to his moveset in general (most notably down air's landing lag). It's definitely useful overall to develop a base understanding of the character.

2. Marth's neutral boils down to his strong dash dance game with grabs and down tilt pokes being the core activity. Marth in general does better the less he swings his sword, waiting for moments to punish his opponent's actions rather than force an opening.

3. As of right now I can't think of any character that Marth couldn't feasibly beat. He's bound to have losing MUs, and maybe certain characters will develop the tools to beat Marth in the future. As it stands right now, he's an insanely strong character that doesn't really need a secondary to support him. Moreover, lower level play typically doesn't necessitate secondaries to begin with, and may introduce challenges in developing a comprehensive gameplan for either character due to a sort of interference or a development of matchup-based character preference where you may struggle with say projectiles as Marth and use Wario instead (I don't know). You voluntarily relinquish the ability to learn how to deal with the difficulties Marth experiences by using Wario as a crutch, or vice-versa.

4. Chaingrabs are likely identical, although with recent changes to PM's grab release points, it might shift things slightly. Overall I think they're easier due to pivot grabs no longer being required in lieu of turn grabs (what a lot of PM players refer to as "pivot grab" where you hold the opposite direction while dashgrabbing).

5. Sheik? A lot of folks seem to think Marth wins the MU in PM but I struggle to believe that personally. I frankly don't know who Marth loses to.

6. B-reverses. DACUS is a brawl tech that I don't think Marth benefits from (I could be wrong though). The aforementioned turn grab.

7. Didn't watch the video, but practicing movement and basic combo strings would probably be a safe bet. Focus on what you struggle with, but don't shirk off your basics.

 

[Kulty]

Thanks for these tips. I heard that Marth struggles against some projectile users such as Link and Toon Link along with the big guys (Dedede and Charizard mostly), because they can outrange him and can kill Marth early. I think that it's obvious for projectile users since it prevent Marth from approaching and punishing. Plus, I think I might change Wario as a secondary later on, since I have to know what are the main troublesome MUs for Marth so that I can find a character for these bad MUs. Finding that secondary might take years, because the metagame is slightly progressing since PMDevTeam stopped development. Plus, it might take around 10 years like Melee to discover the true tier list or something that's close to what the metagame will hold in 10 years.

 

[Salty Sam]

Take everything I say with a grain of salt as I only started playing last semester in college and don't have much experience outside what I know currently.

1.) Yes, watching Melee videos can be incredibly useful for developing core skills and more advanced stragies because Project M and Melee play very similarly.

2.) Definitely follow the advice that cisyphus gives. Not being overly aggressive is an issue I have. You should definitely opt for a more reserved playstyle based around punishing and making as few unnessacy swings as possible.

3.) Personally I don't think you need a secondary if you main Marth and practice his matchups. If you do feel the need to pick up a secondary I'd recommend Sheik as she has fairly good options, in my opinion, to deal with matchups Marth is bad at.

4.) Yes they work the same way to my knowledge, granted I'm terrible at it.

5.) In no way am I at high level tournament play, so take what I say with that in mind. I do know a few characters that give Marth a hard time. I'd say there are 3 categories when I comes to matchups that can beat out Marth. The first one being zoning type. These guys keep Marth away from them with heavy projectile game and make getting hits in difficult, but can be beat with proper spacing and not letting to them get to you. In this category I'd put Samus, Link, and Toon Link. The secound being character who can either match or out range Marth's sword. This type gives me a lot more trouble commonly. It makes going in for safe hits difficult and can really get to you if your used to playing an aggressive Marth. In this category I'd put King DeDeDe, Charizard, Zero Suit Samus, and Link. Finally there's the the speed category. These guys are fast enough to bait out your attacks and get in-between sword swings to punish you. In this category I'd put Sheik and Sonic, although I've never ran into a difficult Sonic to beat, I just think he has the potential if his meta game evolves.

6.) Sorry I can't contribute much here the cisyphus hasn't already.

7.) My best advice is find someone whose around your skill level and practice with them everyday. My general practice is mostly focused on wave dashing as its very important to space Marth properly so to avoid being punished and get those tippers.