New OOS Options on Platforms with Shielddropping

dashdancedan

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#1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQA7vbttZkQ

Now shielddroping is by no means new, but I've never seen it used this way, and you can start any move by the third frame after being out of shieldstun.

EDIT: standing shield drop hitting down, holding forward and hitting down, and holding back and hitting down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx-XCjQDEYc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIQ6Gj-uiWE

Shai Dropping
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLu5972oPZc&feature=related

Phanna's Platforms 101
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMxgGtMLEfw

Shield drops in use
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSdTFXQlE1Q#t=3m30

Better and better all the time. Great job Dan. And to elaborate on the newish stuff:

Even if you character doesn't have an aerial with a hitboxes above them that is fast (like shown in the video), you could always just double jump and do whichever aerial you choose. Ganon: sheild drop, mid air, poke with dair. Or just dair and land on the platform for more comboing. And the spacing would be easy, heck you could sheild drop thru then double jump an aerial and land behind them. Or maybe if you're feeling flashing you could shield drop thru and double jump with an aerial into your opponents face and edgecancel it.

You know how Sheiks sometimes needle camp on platforms? They jump onto a platform, charge some needles, then run off and fire at predictable positions? Well no more! Now they can instead dash shield drop their needle camping and needle approach from anywhere on the platform, rather than just the edges. On battle field with Sheik: Dash platform drop reverse needle capture edgecanceled bairs all day. Oh my God. :psycho:

You think Foxes are bad now when they camp around the top of platforms of Dreamland? Just wait until they start sheilding dropping thru and shining, and then safely recovering back to the above platform with their midair jump.

Every worthwhile Falco player enjoys laser pillaring when they fall through platforms. However, they often times land right in the face of opponents. Dash platform dropping allows you to overcome that problem and increase the gap between characters. Who needs a shine when you can space? :chuckle:


We're really talking untapped metagame here. Make it happen.
More Info 01/21/2013
On a 0 - 255 scale, 128 being in the middle, 0 on the bottom and left and 255 on the top and right, Shield dropping works in the vertical range from 75 - 73 and in the horizontal range from 75 - 73 and 182 - 180. You have a 1 - 5 frame window to move from (vertical ranges) 128 - 106 to 75 - 73 in order to shield drop. Any slower and from any lower ranges (e.g. 100 -> 74) and you will just move your shield down. This means you have a 5 frame buffer window to shield drop. So in other words, you can do the shield drop input 5 frames before the end of shieldstun and you will drop on the soonest possible frame of being out of shieldstun.

As a reference, the lower corner ridges of your control stick are at 61 (down), 54 (left) and 199 (right)

I acquired all of this info with dolphin TAS Input and debug mode



Methods of shield dropping

Method 1
Frame 1: Neutral (or above neutral) stick position
[any amount of frames with no movement]
Frame 2 - 5: Stick in shield drop position

Method 2
Frame 1: Neutral (or above neutral) stick position
[any amount of frames with no movement]
Frame 2: Stick slightly above shield drop position
Frame 5 - 7: Stick past (lower) shield drop position, can be all the way at the bottom.

Method 2 is probably what people who do a quarter-circle motion are doing
 
Last edited:

Zodiac

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#4
Wow, Im gonna have to practice that. Nairing or uairing out of that would be awesome on spacies.
 

JPOBS

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#6
as a spacie main, this actually scares the hell out of me if people start doign this on platforms :/

question:

is the sheild necessary in the "method 1" version?
Seems exactly like ISAI dropping to me.
 

Dark Sonic

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#12
stop making up funky names guys <_<. Shield dropping is plenty descriptive, and dash dance dan is not exactly the first person to showcase this (though I appreciate him doing it all the same)

Shield dropping or Shield platform dropping seem like appropriate enough names.


btw I'm leaning towards the latter just because it can be abbreviated SPD :p. (or SP drop, I don't know)
 

Pi

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#13
this is cool and all
and the first few things are easy to perform

but the super useful one at the end there

the actual shield dropping

I wish there was more info on that

Like when marth Utilt's and then you drop through the platform from your shield

that's extremely ****ing useful

But what's the exact requirements?

I remember practicing and having like very little success ._.
 

Signia

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#14
The Shai drop can mastered but the shield drop out right after hit stun? Good luck doing such a sensitive motion quickly and consistently. Little things like posture and hand temperature could affect things like this, lol. You really gotta know your controller too, else you'll push it too hard trying to do it so quickly (not knowing its sensitivity).
 

Pi

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#16
The Shai drop can mastered but the shield drop out right after hit stun? Good luck doing such a sensitive motion quickly and consistently. Little things like posture and hand temperature could affect things like this, lol. You really gotta know your controller too, else you'll push it too hard trying to do it so quickly (not knowing its sensitivity).
Yar............
 

t3h Icy

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#17
I think only about a dozen of the world's most technical players will be able to effectively use this, and all of them play characters like Fox and Falco.

Though a really technical Jigglypuff could be a threat, but that's kind of contradictory.
 

dashdancedan

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#18
The Shai drop can mastered but the shield drop out right after hit stun? Good luck doing such a sensitive motion quickly and consistently. Little things like posture and hand temperature could affect things like this, lol. You really gotta know your controller too, else you'll push it too hard trying to do it so quickly (not knowing its sensitivity).
A rolling motion, like shield DI forward or back and then go from 180 or 360 on the stick to like 210 and 270, makes it a bit easier, but yeah this is pretty hard.

PS: it's not impossible guys, just hard to get the timing after shieldstun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx-XCjQDEYc

Edit: Maybe we should call it "Pass" cause that's what it's called in debug.
 

Pi

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#19
A rolling motion, like shield DI forward or back and then go from 180 or 360 on the stick to like 210 and 270, makes it a bit easier, but yeah this is pretty hard.

PS: it's not impossible guys, just hard to get the timing after shieldstun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx-XCjQDEYc

Edit: Maybe we should call it "Pass" cause that's what it's called in debug.
Thing is if you're getting hit from below (which is the norm when you're on a plat) you're gonna want to be angling your shield down ;|
 

Tee ay eye

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#21
Fifty bucks says axe will do this with 95% consistency by thursday
why would you do this to me, dan? what did i ever do to you?
 

FoxLisk

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#23
um. no chance holding down while youre in hitlag will like. make this happen without perfect timing. is there? cause... that would make life 1023910239x better.
 

dashdancedan

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#24
Thing is if you're getting hit from below (which is the norm when you're on a plat) you're gonna want to be angling your shield down ;|
That's when you judge where your shield needs to be, and decide if you can block it without having to move your shield down. Attacking low/your feet would probably be a counter to shield dropping.

Also FoxLisk, I don't think that's a possibility, the shield dropping is caused by a downward motion of the control stick.

I'm sorry Tai, I just felt like changing the metagame >_> (**** falco)
 
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#29
Its amazing how few people know about Shai and Shield-dropping. Thanks Dan for posting this video to spread this information; there is a lot of platform tricksies that aren't discovered or widely used. Another tech that comes to mind is dash pivot PC dropping (trust me, you can get consistent with it! Its awesome) on platforms...but thats for another thread I suppose lol.

The trouble is that though Shai dropping is immensely useful and easily masterable, (I Shai drop everything now, with fastfalling) Shield dropping is nearly impossible. Press too hard and you spotdodge, press too lightly and you just stand there. Its very frustrating. However, I have been developing a solution for this that may help...

As a Marth main, it is critically important for me to be facing my opponent when I shield. I'm trying to develop a habit of dashing before I shield in order to make this happen. I press dash then shield so quick that I don't move, but I change the direction of my character before I shield. On a platform, this can be used to quickly change directions before you Shai drop without actually moving. Now, I know you can Shai drop after you pull up your shield for as long as you want ((See the beginning of Shai's video for example), but I am not sure if you can after hitstun. My question is, can you dash->shield->get hit on your shield->shai drop->OoS option? If so, that would completely nullify the use of Shield Dropping and we can just Shai drop OoS all day. I'd test/practice this if I had another person...I'm really curious as to if it works. I don't see why it shouldn't. Note that in order for this to work, you have to hold in the direction you dashed while your shield is up and then tilt to 45 degrees; in a normal Shai drop, you just slam 45 degrees immediately because you don't even wait for your shield to come up. In order to keep your shield up and then Shai drop, you have to hold in the direction you dashed.

The theorycraft inputs would be: dash ->shield->hold in the direction you dashed->get hit (curious the leeway the game gives you for Shield DI and/or Shield angling for this; I know you have to hold the direction you dashed to Shai drop but how strict is that? Can you Shield DI and then quickly move back to the direction you dashed before you slam 45 degrees? Lots of testing.)->slam 45 degrees to drop->fastfall cause you have big testicles->jump/attack OoS.
 

dashdancedan

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#30
You can't shai drop after being hit, you're still going to have to do standing shield drop because shai dropping requires you to be dashing (doesn't it?). But yes you can still sheild drop if you're holding forward and put up your shield and get hit. You'll notice this because in a lot of the AR vids I shield DI forward and shield drop immediately after.
 
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#31
because shai dropping requires you to be dashing (doesn't it?).
No. You can stop, hold shield, and then drop. Look at the video I linked. The inputs for a normal Shai drop (the one where your shield doesn't even pop up) is dash->shield->hit 45 degrees under horizontal. Alternatively, you can dash->shield->hold forward and wait as long as you want (until your shield breaks lol)->hit 45 degrees under the horizontal.

As long as you hold forward after the dash+shield, you can Shai drop with your shield up. I don't know the mechanics of this very well, so I think there is a lot of testing to be done...I don't know if you can Shield DI, angle your shield and then go back to inputting forward or something.
 

X1-12

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#32
No. You can stop, hold shield, and then drop. Look at the video I linked. The inputs for a normal Shai drop (the one where your shield doesn't even pop up) is dash->shield->hit 45 degrees under horizontal. Alternatively, you can dash->shield->hold forward and wait as long as you want (until your shield breaks lol)->hit 45 degrees under the horizontal.
.

The very start of that video you linked is just a shield drop, in fact i'm pretty sure shai himself said that the shai drop is just an easier way to do a shield drop on the very first available frame.





EDIT: woo quote

Q: Isn't this just the shield drop?
A: Well, yes and no. You are dropping through the platform from shield, but if you do the Shai drop properly you will drop through in 1 frame, before the shield animation even comes up. Specifically this is a technique for consistently doing frame perfect shield drops from a dash..
 
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#33
The very start of that video you linked is just a shield drop, in fact i'm pretty sure shai himself said that the shai drop is just an easier way to do a shield drop on the very first available frame.

EDIT: woo quote
Oh, is it really? The mechanics of a Shai drop and a Shield drop are so different though. You hit 45 degrees below horizontal for Shai drop and straight down for Shield drop. He is hitting 45 degrees at the very start of the video as far as I can tell...

Either way, I find it very hard to shield drop but easy to dash, hold forward on my shield, hit 45 regardless of the terminology. One I can do 30% of the time if I am lucky, the other I can do 100% of the time. I am not sure why the mechanics/inputs are so different if they are really the same thing but they feel like different techniques to me...
 

Sanu

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#34
XD @ people still calling that method shai drop

SHAI HULULULULULULUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
 

X1-12

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#35
Oh, is it really? The mechanics of a Shai drop and a Shield drop are so different though. You hit 45 degrees below horizontal for Shai drop and straight down for Shield drop.
you only have to press 45 degrees to shield drop



Either way, I find it very hard to shield drop but easy to dash, hold forward on my shield, hit 45 regardless of the terminology. One I can do 30% of the time if I am lucky, the other I can do 100% of the time. I am not sure why the mechanics/inputs are so different if they are really the same thing but they feel like different techniques to me...

The main reason people mess up Shield dropps is they press to the side/down too fast and roll/spotdodge. Because in the Shai drop you are allready holding forwards, you cannot actidentally roll, and you naturally roll the stick down to the bottom whihc gives a better motion. Like i said its an easier way to shield drop
 

Pi

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#36
When I was practicing shield dropping
There were instances in which I could mash the control stick at a certain angle
(while shielding)
And I would drop through
I never did much research because it didn't come easily to me and I assumed it to be unreliable at best
But if someone would like to explore that option...
 
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#37
you only have to press 45 degrees to shield drop


The main reason people mess up Shield dropps is they press to the side/down too fast and roll/spotdodge. Because in the Shai drop you are allready holding forwards, you cannot actidentally roll, and you naturally roll the stick down to the bottom whihc gives a better motion. Like i said its an easier way to shield drop
Ah, ok, I had assumed Shai dropping was the term used to differentiate using 45 degrees versus straight down. They're the same thing I suppose.
 

Lovage

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#39
shai dropping is dropping thru a platform during your initial dash by doing a quick shield drop (tap shield and point down-forward)

shield dropping can be done from a standstill on a platform by just gliding down at a certain timing, hugs does it a lot
 
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