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New OOS Options on Platforms with Shielddropping

Discussion in 'Melee Discussion' started by dashdancedan, May 8, 2010.

  1. dashdancedan

    dashdancedan
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQA7vbttZkQ

    Now shielddroping is by no means new, but I've never seen it used this way, and you can start any move by the third frame after being out of shieldstun.

    EDIT: standing shield drop hitting down, holding forward and hitting down, and holding back and hitting down
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx-XCjQDEYc

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIQ6Gj-uiWE

    Shai Dropping
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLu5972oPZc&feature=related

    Phanna's Platforms 101
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMxgGtMLEfw

    Shield drops in use
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSdTFXQlE1Q#t=3m30

    More Info 01/21/2013
    On a 0 - 255 scale, 128 being in the middle, 0 on the bottom and left and 255 on the top and right, Shield dropping works in the vertical range from 75 - 73 and in the horizontal range from 75 - 73 and 182 - 180. You have a 1 - 5 frame window to move from (vertical ranges) 128 - 106 to 75 - 73 in order to shield drop. Any slower and from any lower ranges (e.g. 100 -> 74) and you will just move your shield down. This means you have a 5 frame buffer window to shield drop. So in other words, you can do the shield drop input 5 frames before the end of shieldstun and you will drop on the soonest possible frame of being out of shieldstun.

    As a reference, the lower corner ridges of your control stick are at 61 (down), 54 (left) and 199 (right)

    I acquired all of this info with dolphin TAS Input and debug mode

    [​IMG]

    Methods of shield dropping

    Method 1
    Frame 1: Neutral (or above neutral) stick position
    [any amount of frames with no movement]
    Frame 2 - 5: Stick in shield drop position

    Method 2
    Frame 1: Neutral (or above neutral) stick position
    [any amount of frames with no movement]
    Frame 2: Stick slightly above shield drop position
    Frame 5 - 7: Stick past (lower) shield drop position, can be all the way at the bottom.

    Method 2 is probably what people who do a quarter-circle motion are doing
     
    #1 dashdancedan, May 8, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2014
  2. Kason Birdman

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    real **** stuff here. nice work.. and good vid.

    and lol'd at fox tech skill showoff
     
  3. Geist

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    I like this.
    Practicing it now
     
  4. Zodiac

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    Wow, Im gonna have to practice that. Nairing or uairing out of that would be awesome on spacies.
     
  5. Nø Ca$h

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    yoshi +3 spots on the tier list
     
  6. JPOBS

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    as a spacie main, this actually scares the hell out of me if people start doign this on platforms :/

    question:

    is the sheild necessary in the "method 1" version?
    Seems exactly like ISAI dropping to me.
     
  7. jugfingers

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    you are awesome.
     
  8. Nø Ca$h

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    isai dropping is canceling auto cancel lag with a walk..
     
  9. BBQ°

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    obviously a new advanced technique of this caliber deserves to be named after it's creator.

    name it "dash dancing"
     
    SAUS likes this.
  10. victra♥

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    crystal skies

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    hahaha good call.
     
  11. Nø Ca$h

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    or how about the "dan drop"
     
  12. Dark Sonic

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    stop making up funky names guys <_<. Shield dropping is plenty descriptive, and dash dance dan is not exactly the first person to showcase this (though I appreciate him doing it all the same)

    Shield dropping or Shield platform dropping seem like appropriate enough names.


    btw I'm leaning towards the latter just because it can be abbreviated SPD :p. (or SP drop, I don't know)
     
  13. Pi

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    this is cool and all
    and the first few things are easy to perform

    but the super useful one at the end there

    the actual shield dropping

    I wish there was more info on that

    Like when marth Utilt's and then you drop through the platform from your shield

    that's extremely ****ing useful

    But what's the exact requirements?

    I remember practicing and having like very little success ._.
     
  14. Signia

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    The Shai drop can mastered but the shield drop out right after hit stun? Good luck doing such a sensitive motion quickly and consistently. Little things like posture and hand temperature could affect things like this, lol. You really gotta know your controller too, else you'll push it too hard trying to do it so quickly (not knowing its sensitivity).
     
  15. Kanelol

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    Technically it gives people new OOS platform options, but the use of AR in DDD's video makes me suspicious
     
  16. Pi

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    Yar............
     
  17. t3h Icy

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    I think only about a dozen of the world's most technical players will be able to effectively use this, and all of them play characters like Fox and Falco.

    Though a really technical Jigglypuff could be a threat, but that's kind of contradictory.
     
  18. dashdancedan

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    A rolling motion, like shield DI forward or back and then go from 180 or 360 on the stick to like 210 and 270, makes it a bit easier, but yeah this is pretty hard.

    PS: it's not impossible guys, just hard to get the timing after shieldstun
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx-XCjQDEYc

    Edit: Maybe we should call it "Pass" cause that's what it's called in debug.
     
  19. Pi

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    Thing is if you're getting hit from below (which is the norm when you're on a plat) you're gonna want to be angling your shield down ;|
     
  20. X1-12

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    whats the difference between this and the shai drop?
     
  21. Tee ay eye

    Tee ay eye
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    Fifty bucks says axe will do this with 95% consistency by thursday
    why would you do this to me, dan? what did i ever do to you?
     
  22. dashdancedan

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    The dash shield drop is the shai drop, essentially "method 2" the rest is just variations and methods of shield dropping.
     
  23. FoxLisk

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    um. no chance holding down while youre in hitlag will like. make this happen without perfect timing. is there? cause... that would make life 1023910239x better.
     
  24. dashdancedan

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    That's when you judge where your shield needs to be, and decide if you can block it without having to move your shield down. Attacking low/your feet would probably be a counter to shield dropping.

    Also FoxLisk, I don't think that's a possibility, the shield dropping is caused by a downward motion of the control stick.

    I'm sorry Tai, I just felt like changing the metagame >_> (**** falco)
     
  25. FoxLisk

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    :( oh well. still worth learning how to do. cool stuff.
     
  26. dudutsai

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    This move is now called Saidropping
     
  27. Vyzor

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    wow,i can do this pretty easily now :D I like the name, DanDrop
     
  28. Kason Birdman

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    yeah i think DanDropping sounds good
     
  29. TheCrimsonBlur

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    Its amazing how few people know about Shai and Shield-dropping. Thanks Dan for posting this video to spread this information; there is a lot of platform tricksies that aren't discovered or widely used. Another tech that comes to mind is dash pivot PC dropping (trust me, you can get consistent with it! Its awesome) on platforms...but thats for another thread I suppose lol.

    The trouble is that though Shai dropping is immensely useful and easily masterable, (I Shai drop everything now, with fastfalling) Shield dropping is nearly impossible. Press too hard and you spotdodge, press too lightly and you just stand there. Its very frustrating. However, I have been developing a solution for this that may help...

    As a Marth main, it is critically important for me to be facing my opponent when I shield. I'm trying to develop a habit of dashing before I shield in order to make this happen. I press dash then shield so quick that I don't move, but I change the direction of my character before I shield. On a platform, this can be used to quickly change directions before you Shai drop without actually moving. Now, I know you can Shai drop after you pull up your shield for as long as you want ((See the beginning of Shai's video for example), but I am not sure if you can after hitstun. My question is, can you dash->shield->get hit on your shield->shai drop->OoS option? If so, that would completely nullify the use of Shield Dropping and we can just Shai drop OoS all day. I'd test/practice this if I had another person...I'm really curious as to if it works. I don't see why it shouldn't. Note that in order for this to work, you have to hold in the direction you dashed while your shield is up and then tilt to 45 degrees; in a normal Shai drop, you just slam 45 degrees immediately because you don't even wait for your shield to come up. In order to keep your shield up and then Shai drop, you have to hold in the direction you dashed.

    The theorycraft inputs would be: dash ->shield->hold in the direction you dashed->get hit (curious the leeway the game gives you for Shield DI and/or Shield angling for this; I know you have to hold the direction you dashed to Shai drop but how strict is that? Can you Shield DI and then quickly move back to the direction you dashed before you slam 45 degrees? Lots of testing.)->slam 45 degrees to drop->fastfall cause you have big testicles->jump/attack OoS.
     
  30. dashdancedan

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    You can't shai drop after being hit, you're still going to have to do standing shield drop because shai dropping requires you to be dashing (doesn't it?). But yes you can still sheild drop if you're holding forward and put up your shield and get hit. You'll notice this because in a lot of the AR vids I shield DI forward and shield drop immediately after.
     
  31. TheCrimsonBlur

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    No. You can stop, hold shield, and then drop. Look at the video I linked. The inputs for a normal Shai drop (the one where your shield doesn't even pop up) is dash->shield->hit 45 degrees under horizontal. Alternatively, you can dash->shield->hold forward and wait as long as you want (until your shield breaks lol)->hit 45 degrees under the horizontal.

    As long as you hold forward after the dash+shield, you can Shai drop with your shield up. I don't know the mechanics of this very well, so I think there is a lot of testing to be done...I don't know if you can Shield DI, angle your shield and then go back to inputting forward or something.
     
  32. X1-12

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    The very start of that video you linked is just a shield drop, in fact i'm pretty sure shai himself said that the shai drop is just an easier way to do a shield drop on the very first available frame.





    EDIT: woo quote

     
  33. TheCrimsonBlur

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    Oh, is it really? The mechanics of a Shai drop and a Shield drop are so different though. You hit 45 degrees below horizontal for Shai drop and straight down for Shield drop. He is hitting 45 degrees at the very start of the video as far as I can tell...

    Either way, I find it very hard to shield drop but easy to dash, hold forward on my shield, hit 45 regardless of the terminology. One I can do 30% of the time if I am lucky, the other I can do 100% of the time. I am not sure why the mechanics/inputs are so different if they are really the same thing but they feel like different techniques to me...
     
  34. Sanu

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    XD @ people still calling that method shai drop

    SHAI HULULULULULULUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
     
  35. X1-12

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    you only have to press 45 degrees to shield drop




    The main reason people mess up Shield dropps is they press to the side/down too fast and roll/spotdodge. Because in the Shai drop you are allready holding forwards, you cannot actidentally roll, and you naturally roll the stick down to the bottom whihc gives a better motion. Like i said its an easier way to shield drop
     
  36. Pi

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    When I was practicing shield dropping
    There were instances in which I could mash the control stick at a certain angle
    (while shielding)
    And I would drop through
    I never did much research because it didn't come easily to me and I assumed it to be unreliable at best
    But if someone would like to explore that option...
     
  37. TheCrimsonBlur

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    Ah, ok, I had assumed Shai dropping was the term used to differentiate using 45 degrees versus straight down. They're the same thing I suppose.
     
  38. dashdancedan

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  39. Lovage

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    shai dropping is dropping thru a platform during your initial dash by doing a quick shield drop (tap shield and point down-forward)

    shield dropping can be done from a standstill on a platform by just gliding down at a certain timing, hugs does it a lot
     
  40. Kanelol

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    inb4 silent wolfs combo video
     

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